The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

ya agreed but lar to them i suppose is the same as tommy walsh to us.if it was him the tipp supporters would have jeered just the way the game is gone i suppose and im not saying im an angel as i probaly would have jeered to but more so getting caught up in the heat of it rather than wishing anybody harm.

Tommy gets alot of praise in Tipperary in fairness. There is no denying he is some man to read a game but some the stuff he gets involved in is needless. Id applause the man personally if he was going off the field having suffered the misfortune of an injury and i wouldnt wish it on him.

buggy beag

Deleted User wrote: »

Tommy gets alot of praise in Tipperary in fairness. There is no denying he is some man to read a game but some the stuff he gets involved in is needless. Id applause the man personally if he was going off the field having suffered the misfortune of an injury and i wouldnt wish it on him.

ya its just the nature of the game and in any sport really i suppose people lose there senses during the game.ive a friend from wford and shes always saying how ye hate john mullane ye call him this and that and im sick of trying to explain ya for 70 mins i hate that mans guts but its only because hes so good, before and after the game il sing his praises.when i was at the league semi double header when kk were running out a bunch of tipp young lads booed them and the lady beside me spent ten mins giving out that it was disgracful and has no place in the game but then when anthony cunninham got involved in something on the sideline she let go with a torrent of abuse and this lady wasnt rough she was a really nice lady with her 3 kids with her so when i smiled at her and said could you explain the diff between the two things she was totally embarrassed and couldnt stop apologising.first whistle to the last we change into different people mostly not out of malice just the heat of the battle:D

jimmydkid

Forwards left us down again, very disappointing. Hopefully o Shea and co can unearth some one who can catch a ball in the forward line,
The only time we seemed to cause them problems was when woodlock ran at them, Lar was a big loss he looked like a man on form before his injury.

buggy beag

ya agreed for all his faults they really were all over the place when he did run at them pity the rest of the forwards didnt take a leaf out of his book

jimmydkid

jimmydkid wrote: »

Forwards left us down again, very disappointing. Hopefully o Shea and co can unearth some one who can catch a ball in the forward line,
The only time we seemed to cause them problems was when woodlock ran at them, Lar was a big loss he looked like a man on form before his injury.

Colm O'Riordan although he is just 17 going on 18 is 6'4. Id definitely be calling him up to the seniors next year at the very least. He is a superb fielder. Dylan Fitzelle is another big lad who is a tough character and both great sticksmen. David Collins is another versatile lad who can play anywhere.

I dont advocate just bringing through brutes, but all too often we have lightweights who have loads of hurling in them but cant get next or near a ball during a game. But if we start to look to the likes of Conor Kenny or Dan McCormack we will continue to face the same problems. Both of those lads have zilch work ethic.

jimmydkid

I thought Noel McGrath and Bonner were gonna develop into major players in our forward line but unfortunately both seem to be off the pace this season, I thought in 2010 we played a lot more low ball into our forward line and got lads running at defenders

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

ya its just the nature of the game and in any sport really i suppose people lose there senses during the game.ive a friend from wford and shes always saying how ye hate john mullane ye call him this and that and im sick of trying to explain ya for 70 mins i hate that mans guts but its only because hes so good, before and after the game il sing his praises.when i was at the league semi double header when kk were running out a bunch of tipp young lads booed them and the lady beside me spent ten mins giving out that it was disgracful and has no place in the game but then when anthony cunninham got involved in something on the sideline she let go with a torrent of abuse and this lady wasnt rough she was a really nice lady with her 3 kids with her so when i smiled at her and said could you explain the diff between the two things she was totally embarrassed and couldnt stop apologising.first whistle to the last we change into different people mostly not out of malice just the heat of the battle:D

Id consider myself a civilised member of society but when i seen Brendan Cummins puck the ball out to a Kilkenny man tonight, i fúcked and blinded all round me. The red mist descended and there was no control whatsoever if im being totally honest. There was very young kids in the vincinity so i felt a great sense of guilt after it but i cant give any cast iron guarantee it wont happen again. You become so emotionally involved especially when its Tipp v Kilkenny - a derby that means alot to people down here on the South Tipp - Kilkenny border. Thats not the first time this happened and wont be the last.

In the football league game v Carlow earlier this year, i let a shout at at a few of their female supporters who were calling for one of our lads to get a red, 'Ah whats yer f***n problem?, ye are getting enough from the ref'. Que Fishwife central roaring back at me with viciousness and wild eyes popping out of their head. Needless to say i thought better of expanding on my point any further and decided that these weren't the type of people you argue with. They then launched a foul mouthed attack on an innocent family sitting in front of me who were minding their own business for some reason. Gas thing is i study up in Carlow and have alot of friends up there. Some very good loyal GAA people who you wouldnt begrudge any success too.

Generally i suppose you cant judge the type of person in these situations as all sorts of emotions and frustrations are conjured up.

jimmydkid

jimmydkid wrote: »

I thought Noel McGrath and Bonner were gonna develop into major players in our forward line but unfortunately both seem to be off the pace this season, I thought in 2010 we played a lot more low ball into our forward line and got lads running at defenders

Fair point. Bonnar looks jaded and tired and tbf to the lad he joined the army this year where there is alot of training etc involved. Previously he had worked in a leisure centre as a gym instructor which has a certain level of monotony about it. Noel has only delivered in spurts in the last 3 seasons given how instrumental he was in 09 and 10 and id be very concerned about whether he can have the same importance going forward.

jimmydkid

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair point. Bonnar looks jaded and tired and tbf to the lad he joined the army this year where there is alot of training etc involved. Previously he had worked in a leisure centre as a gym instructor which has a certain level of monotony about it. Noel has only delivered in spurts in the last 3 seasons given how instrumental he was in 09 and 10 and id be very concerned about whether he can have the same importance going forward.

It's unfortunate how much we have gone back since 09/10 the two lads above and paudie and Brendan maher looked like they would rule the roost for a long time,
I suppose hindsight is a great thing but the Shane McGrath as captain didn't work out for player or manager

randd1

Eli Manning wrote: »

Mikey Cahill would be a great captain next year.

COM is only 28 and playing brilliantly. He'll be back next year for sure.

Easily Tipp's best player the last two seasons, has turned into a serious, brilliant and completely reliable defender, a leader on the field, and on this years league form and two championship games in line for an All-Star. Well up there with Tyrrel, Moore and Murphy as the best corner backs in the country.

It would be criminal if he wasn't considered next year, I'd have made him captain this year after the league campaign and dropped Shane McGrath, the lad oozes class and determination and would be a better captain for Tipp.

randd1

randd1 wrote: »

Easily Tipp's best player the last two seasons, has turned into a serious, brilliant and completely reliable defender, a leader on the field, and on this years league form and two championship games in line for an All-Star. Well up there with Tyrrel, Moore and Murphy as the best corner backs in the country.

It would be criminal if he wasn't considered next year, I'd have made him captain this year after the league campaign and dropped Shane McGrath, the lad oozes class and determination and would be a better captain for Tipp.

Id agree. I think Paddy Saint is terrific also but yes Cahill is one of our few shining lights. Generally we've always been reasonably solid at the backs even in the noughties with Corcoran, Curran and Fanning, but our forwards have failed to click.

ReacherCreature

I've yet to watch the match and most of the stuff below is from the perspective of the stands so forgive me for any omissions/mistakes. Plus I'm exhausted after the day!

I'm disappointed again. Just can't win much lately. It's always a sore thing to lose to Kilkenny. I went in with little expectation but when I saw the teams come out I was really thinking we might do something.

The atmosphere was unbelievable. Just wow. I've been at games, concerts etc. and it was just incredible. Tipp got a great welcome and I was thinking "great stuff" but Kilkenny came out and blew the place apart. Then Shefflin's reception boosted the Park again. Unreal.

Disappointed with a few players' performances and the year hasn't been great for them. I think Bonner is a bit tired. To go from Munster POTY to not appearing in some games is a drop. Callanan and Noel McGrath have their share of issues and Shane McGrath has been subbed twice in two games I think. Pa Bourke has fallen off the face of the earth. Trying to stay with the positive, Michael Cahill is brilliant, what a player, he has heart and spirit in spades. When Paudie is good, there's none better. Brendan Maher has shown we have a perennial All-Star on board. Saint and Foxy very good too. I thought Cummins was fine this year and we'll get another year out of him I feel.

Don't know who I want to win/support. I'd like to see Limerick push on this year.

Fun, morbid fact: the last three times I've seen Tipperary vs. Kilkenny, they've won three times. We've only beaten them once in four games, that was in the league and I wasn't there. I'm a jinx!

Clonmel Commercials tweeted that they heard a rumour that Eamon is the resign from the Tipp job. I hope this is untrue because it's only his first year and very rarely do managers be VERY successful in one go. Granted, O' Shea didn't accomplish his goals of winning the league and getting to the All Ireland but you need time in such a critical position.

ReacherCreature

randd1 wrote: »

Easily Tipp's best player the last two seasons, has turned into a serious, brilliant and completely reliable defender, a leader on the field, and on this years league form and two championship games in line for an All-Star. Well up there with Tyrrel, Moore and Murphy as the best corner backs in the country.

Delighted to see Michael get some credit, he flies under the radar (mark of a good defender perhaps?) a bit but he's done really really well the last couple of years. At the end of the last season I predicted on here that he'd win an All Star this year, probably not to be on the back of a short campaign but had he played on longer, he'd be a lock.

He's a phenomenal player. Last season he appeared in EVERY one of our games. From friendlies to the League and into the championship. Great battler. Firm fan favourite too, he's always busting out of the back and gets some cheer from the stands.

randd1

jimmydkid wrote: »

It's unfortunate how much we have gone back since 09/10 the two lads above and paudie and Brendan maher looked like they would rule the roost for a long time,
I suppose hindsight is a great thing but the Shane McGrath as captain didn't work out for player or manager

They were played up after being part of a very good U21 side who waltzed the final in seriously convincing circumstances against a poor Galway side a week after they stopped Kilkenny's 5-in-a-row. The sense of perspective in Tipp was lost that week.

Tipps best players in 09/10 were Kelly, Corbett, Fanning, Curran, Cummins and O'Mahony ie the older players, and were the driving force of that team. The likes of McGrath, Bonnar, Brendan Maher and Paudie Maher complimented them rather than were the driving force those years.

Since then the older guys have got older (and in the case of Fanning retired) and can't carry the side anymore like they did. And only really Paudie Maher and Micky Cahill have stepped up to the plate consistently from that U21 side.

Point is Tipp fans got over expectant for the future after the massive u21 win when the county was on a serious collective high, and forgot who was the driving force of the present that year.

Quite simply, Tipp haven't replaced the quality and leadership that Kelly, Corbett, Fanning, Curran, Cummins and O'Mahony brought to that team.

And when that driving force faded, so did Tipp because the lads coming through just weren't good enough to carry the responsibility despite what they won underage, a situation Kilkenny will face in a few years time when Shefflin, Delaney, Tyrrell and Walsh lay down the hurls.

randd1

randd1 wrote: »

They were played up after being part of a very good U21 side who waltzed the final in seriously convincing circumstances against a poor Galway side a week after they stopped Kilkenny's 5-in-a-row. The sense of perspective in Tipp was lost that week.

Tipps best players in 09/10 were Kelly, Corbett, Fanning, Curran, Cummins and O'Mahony ie the older players, and were the driving force of that team. The likes of McGrath, Bonnar, Brendan Maher and Paudie Maher complimented them rather than were the driving force those years.

Since then the older guys have got older (and in the case of Fanning retired) and can't carry the side anymore like they did. And only really Paudie Maher and Micky Cahill have stepped up to the plate consistently from that U21 side.

Point is Tipp fans got over expectant for the future after the massive u21 win when the county was on a serious collective high, and forgot who was the driving force of the present that year.

Quite simply, Tipp haven't replaced the quality and leadership that Kelly, Corbett, Fanning, Curran, Cummins and O'Mahony brought to that team.

And when that driving force faded, so did Tipp because the lads coming through just weren't good enough to carry the responsibility despite what they won underage, a situation Kilkenny will face in a few years time when Shefflin, Delaney, Tyrrell and Walsh lay down the hurls.

Thats a great post fair play to you. Agree with everything you say.

Red Crow

I think we'll be all right. Find Brendan a partner in the middle and we'd start turning it around. Bonnar has had a tough year but we need to be absolutely ruthless next year. Name a captain who played well this year I'd like it to be Mikey Cahill.

Bubbles is the only one with a bit of credit in that forward line. Bonnar will probably be back next year fitter and in better condition. Then we probably need to find two forwards over the next 6-8 months and then hopefully Buggy, Forde etc can stake a claim for a place.

ReacherCreature

Eli Manning wrote: »

I think we'll be all right. Find Brendan a partner in the middle and we'd start turning it around. Bonnar has had a tough year but we need to be absolutely ruthless next year. Name a captain who played well this year I'd like it to be Mikey Cahill

Great point.

Eamon O' Shea said this and it makes sense: "This team, five U21s from 2010, these guys have a lot of hurling to do yet" Lot of these lads are young and have plenty more game time in them.

Just need to find a consistent front six forward line as 1 to 9 are sorted I believe. I know in the league O' Shea rotated a lot but most teams, you can nail down the starters but with Tipp, it's really difficult.

From what I saw Kieran Bergin hurled well today. He's a no-nonsense hurler, I like that. Hopefully he sticks around for next year.

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Great point.

Eamon O' Shea said this and it makes sense: "This team, five U21s from 2010, these guys have a lot of hurling to do yet" Lot of these lads are young and have plenty more game time in them.

Bubbles, Cahill and Padraic Maher fair enough but then you have Buggy who is limited and Noel who is windy. Bonnar hasnt enough hurling in him either.

Was 2010 a false dawn perhaps? Randd made a good point that these u21s complemented the existing core of senior players back then rather than formed the basis of that team. I do think though we have good u21s in the pipeline and good minors from last year with one or two good ones from this year too so yes the future is bright.

I dont think we can judge EOS on this year really as he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Next year, the likes of John Meagher and Tossy Hamill will probably make their intercounty debuts and dont rule out Fitzelle, perhaps Pa or Willie Ryan, David Collins....loads of talent there.

But the tippy tappy show ponies have to go. The windy men who have let us down for years. They know who they are.

But also coaches have to really look at training methods and find out how we can turnover more possession in that last 3rd of the field because that really is the key.

ReacherCreature

Deleted User wrote: »

Bubbles, Cahill and Padraic Maher fair enough but then you have Buggy who is limited and Noel who is windy. Bonnar hasnt enough hurling in him either.

We've gotten two stars from that U21 squad: P. Maher and Cahill. John O' Dwyer is showcasing what he can do and next season will provide more to look into. Buggy has been good for us but yeah a bit limited but he hasn't had a lot of games to showcase. Bonner was our best player last year. We've done well out of that year. I think they can go on to be the leaders.

Was 2010 a false dawn perhaps? Randd made a good point that these u21s complemented the existing core of senior players back then rather than formed the basis of that team.

That can still make a very good team. You're mixing a lot of two things. One, an experienced, older group and two, young dynamic guys with a lot of talent and athleticism. You can get a nice balance there and win games with it. We can't really do that, two Munsters are good and all but eyes are on the big prize. I wouldn't say it's a false dawn to be honest, a lot has happened in the last few years: bad management, terrible tactics, great teams, increasing competitiveness of the championship all combine.

ReacherCreature

Let's not forget the footballers tomorrow amidst all this hurling calamity. Good luck to them.

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Let's not forget the footballers tomorrow amidst all this hurling calamity. Good luck to them.

Yep please god they can do it now. Up against it down in Killarney. We also have a huge hurling week coming up both the 17th and 19th with two dates with Cork in respectively the u21 and intermediate hurling at Semple. Now is the time to get out and support these lads as we have little else involved.

Out of Senior and minor hurling and Senior, u21, and Junior football so 3 grades left to secure success in.

H'ON TIPP!!

tonyduggan

The saviour Eamon O Shea 0 wins and 2 losses in championship hurling. Not even close to good enough

Alpha Dog 1

Such a frustrating day yesterday, we made all the same mistakes that we have made for years against kk.
If the Dublin vs Kilkenny game last week thought us anything, it was that low fast ball into the forwards could show up the lack of pace in the Kilkenny backs but tipp consistently dropped big high balls in just hoping for the best.
I'd also have to ask serious questions over Eamon o Shea's management. Declan Ryan delivered 2 munster titles yet was hounded out of the job. Here we are now barely in July and already knocked out. He's made plenty mistakes, started by making shane mcgrath captain.

He was the popular choice for the job, the players choice apparently but has the team progressed much from the last few years? He picked 13 of the 15 that started the 2010 final, are the younger players getting a chance? Bonnar maher, shane mcgrath, eoin Kelly, noel mcgrath have done very little this year to warrant their inclusion in the side yet these lads seem to be undropable. Very disappointing stuff.

tonyduggan

tonyduggan wrote: »

The saviour Eamon O Shea 0 wins and 2 losses in championship hurling. Not even close to good enough

Well what would you prefer though? Our best players following backs around the field like last year? He needs time at the very least to introduce a new crop and yes he has to be totally ruthless in the next 12 months. If you havent forgotten he trained the All Ireland winning team also and is widely respected by the group. Eoin Kelly even said to me there last year 'he was the only man for the job'

Alpha Dog 1

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Such a frustrating day yesterday, we made all the same mistakes that we have made for years against kk.
If the Dublin vs Kilkenny game last week thought us anything, it was that low fast ball into the forwards could show up the lack of pace in the Kilkenny backs but tipp consistently dropped big high balls in just hoping for the best.
I'd also have to ask serious questions over Eamon o Shea's management. Declan Ryan delivered 2 munster titles yet was hounded out of the job. Here we are now barely in July and already knocked out. He's made plenty mistakes, started by making shane mcgrath captain.

He was the popular choice for the job, the players choice apparently but has the team progressed much from the last few years? He picked 13 of the 15 that started the 2010 final, are the younger players getting a chance? Bonnar maher, shane mcgrath, eoin Kelly, noel mcgrath have done very little this year to warrant their inclusion in the side yet these lads seem to be undropable. Very disappointing stuff.

I dont deny EOS has made mistakes but lets not go down the road of lauding Declan Ryan who appeared to have little interest in the team let alone influence and as for Tommy Dunne...let us not forget these are lads who sanctioned the ludicrous tactic of Lar stalking Tommy last year.

Reginald P. DuM

tonyduggan wrote: »

The saviour Eamon O Shea 0 wins and 2 losses in championship hurling. Not even close to good enough

Cannot stress how unhelpful that post is....

Reginald P. DuM

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

Cannot stress how unhelpful that post is....

Its beyond ludicrous to be honest.

Minors being beaten at half time 0-8 - 0-5 with Josh Keane sent off. The good times continue......

Red Crow

tonyduggan wrote: »

The saviour Eamon O Shea 0 wins and 2 losses in championship hurling. Not even close to good enough

We all want a massive improvement but at the moment it's about steadying a sinking ship. We need to find a midfielder and up to 3 forwards over the next 6-10 months.

I'm quite happy with the competition between 2-7 bar 3. I know Saint was very good yesterday but realistically we need to find another option at full back as Saint isn't exactly very tall.

Next year we're probably looking at:

Gleeson
O'Brien Saint Cahill
Bergin O'Mahony P. Maher
B. Maher No. 9
No.10 Bonnar Forde
Bubbles No.14 Lar

I'd say Lar will give it another year. He won't wont to leave it like that. I don't know if Saint is the future at FB but he was excellent yesterday. All our back line were. I think Bergin might see a bit of time in midfield next year in the league. But I hope we can find a guy out of somewhere to play with Brendan Maher.

Hopefully Forde can make the step up and I think he probably deserved more time on the field this year. Bubbles will be there next year and hopefully without the weeks of Army training Bonnar can regain form. Then you have Callanan, Noel McGrath etc. who will need to up a gear to get back into the side.

If we can unearth two forwards we will be 90% of the way there. I think this team could well be back in good competition next year but I think we may be in a period where it'll take 2 years for lads to find their place on this side. Luckily we have a decent core of young players.

Hitchens

Guys, hard luck, it could have went either way, the puck of a ball in it at the end.

Cheering when Lar had to go off was bad form but don't tar all of us with the same brush.

I couldn't believe some of the Tipp supporters leaving before the final whistle either, and the match not near decided, but it happens I know.