The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013

buggy beag

Deleted User wrote: »

What annoys me is that there will be no way of avoiding the scutter from Babs Keating tomorrow. He of the huge ego who failed and blames everyone bar himself will undermine and cut the sh*t out of his own fellow county men in his gutter column tomorrow because of some grudge he has fabricated in his head against anyone who took the hotseat after the self professed great one.

We will be told by this man how O'Shea got it completely wrong and hadnt a clue and the sad thing is that certain people with not enough sense will follow his lead.

ah stop cant stand the man if hes so interested in tipp he should move back to tipp:Pan does he ever stop banging on about the sliothars haha

digzy

I can't agree with the criticism of eos. Demanding he get the chop is crazy. We're tipperary not Chelsea.

A lot of us here were hailing his appointment way back. By all accounts the players wanted him too. I wasn't at the game but in his post match interview he sounded like a man who knew what was needed. He was bloody defiant too.
If we use the cats as a barometer, in 2011 we were a mile off them despite a fairly small margin in the ai. Last year was a disaster. We've beaten them narrowly in the league, lost narrowly enough in the final and weren't too far off yesterday. However, we never looked like winning either.
I don't blame our backs. They've to deal with a huge amount of ball because of out star forwards 'possession' issues! If kk had our front 6 their backs mightn't look too hot either.

Bar the cork disaster we'd a great league. And despite that mauling we still topped the table. We were pure class against Galway.

As regards the 'tipi-tapa' hurling alluded to previously, I'd disagree to an extent. It has it's place depending on the opposition. I felt the dubs were quite composed today when they offloaded to a colleague in a better position.aimless driving of the ball isn't the way forward, especially with the likes of Brian hogan and co. waiting under it.

We'll move on. This game was I believe our 'Kerry-Tyrone' moment.they had to completely change tac after that game. Eos has plenty time to analyse where we are and what we need to do. I'm very optimistic given his cerebral nature he'll know exactly whats needed and unearth the players we need-maybe not next year but soon enough. We've plenty fantastic players like Brendan maher. We need huge surgery up front though.

I've lost faith in callinan and pa bourke, i'd also have doubts over lar and reckon eoin might hang up the boots. However, Noel McGrath will come good I believe-he's the class. You don't need 6 Walter walsh's you need balance.

The darkest hour always comes just before the dawn lads

digzy

digzy wrote: »

I can't agree with the criticism of eos. Demanding he get the chop is crazy. We're tipperary not Chelsea.

A lot of us here were hailing his appointment way back. By all accounts the players wanted him too. I wasn't at the game but in his post match interview he sounded like a man who knew what was needed. He was bloody defiant too.
If we use the cats as a barometer, in 2011 we were a mile off them despite a fairly small margin in the ai. Last year was a disaster. We've beaten them narrowly in the league, lost narrowly enough in the final and weren't too far off yesterday. However, we never looked like winning either.
I don't blame our backs. They've to deal with a huge amount of ball because of out star forwards 'possession' issues! If kk had our front 6 their backs mightn't look too hot either.

Bar the cork disaster we'd a great league. And despite that mauling we still topped the table. We were pure class against Galway.

As regards the 'tipi-tapa' hurling alluded to previously, I'd disagree to an extent. It has it's place depending on the opposition. I felt the dubs were quite composed today when they offloaded to a colleague in a better position.aimless driving of the ball isn't the way forward, especially with the likes of Brian hogan and co. waiting under it.

We'll move on. This game was I believe our 'Kerry-Tyrone' moment.they had to completely change tac after that game. Eos has plenty time to analyse where we are and what we need to do. I'm very optimistic given his cerebral nature he'll know exactly whats needed and unearth the players we need-maybe not next year but soon enough. We've plenty fantastic players like Brendan maher. We need huge surgery up front though.

I've lost faith in callinan and pa bourke, i'd also have doubts over lar and reckon eoin might hang up the boots. However, Noel McGrath will come good I believe-he's the class. You don't need 6 Walter walsh's you need balance.

The darkest hour always comes just before the dawn lads

Great post.

Looking at the Sunday game there little things made the difference. the Cats were just that bit cuter but consider the following

1. Curran's injury meant Brendan Maher had to be moved to wing back where he would have been brilliant in midfield
2. Lar was causing havoc until he went off. His loss was huge because his favoured free role meant that the Kilkenny backs found him very very difficult to deal with
3. When he pulled up with injury he dropped the ball at that moment and Kilkenny got a point from it.
4. Eoin's goal chance
5. Eoin then failing to convert the 45
6. Eoin missed a free round that time.
7. Jason Forde goal chance
8. Lack of movement from the puckouts
9. Cummins misplaced puckout to Walter Walsh

Fact is we made there was 8 errors/things that just went wrong and we were punished. It would be unfair to call for a managers head for such small things. The one thing we must work on is our ability to win primary possession and this takes a combo of the movement by the forwards and the goalkeeper not over-hitting them which considering the small pitch i believe he did but i agree with Donal Óg that forwards must move and give the option.

Youngladathome

digzy wrote: »

I can't agree with the criticism of eos. Demanding he get the chop is crazy. We're tipperary not Chelsea.

A lot of us here were hailing his appointment way back. By all accounts the players wanted him too. I wasn't at the game but in his post match interview he sounded like a man who knew what was needed. He was bloody defiant too.
If we use the cats as a barometer, in 2011 we were a mile off them despite a fairly small margin in the ai. Last year was a disaster. We've beaten them narrowly in the league, lost narrowly enough in the final and weren't too far off yesterday. However, we never looked like winning either.
I don't blame our backs. They've to deal with a huge amount of ball because of out star forwards 'possession' issues! If kk had our front 6 their backs mightn't look too hot either.
Bar the cork disaster we'd a great league. And despite that mauling we still topped the table. We were pure class against Galway.

As regards the 'tipi-tapa' hurling alluded to previously, I'd disagree to an extent. It has it's place depending on the opposition. I felt the dubs were quite composed today when they offloaded to a colleague in a better position.aimless driving of the ball isn't the way forward, especially with the likes of Brian hogan and co. waiting under it.

We'll move on. This game was I believe our 'Kerry-Tyrone' moment.they had to completely change tac after that game. Eos has plenty time to analyse where we are and what we need to do. I'm very optimistic given his cerebral nature he'll know exactly whats needed and unearth the players we need-maybe not next year but soon enough. We've plenty fantastic players like Brendan maher. We need huge surgery up front though.

I've lost faith in callinan and pa bourke, i'd also have doubts over lar and reckon eoin might hang up the boots. However, Noel McGrath will come good I believe-he's the class. You don't need 6 Walter walsh's you need balance.

The darkest hour always comes just before the dawn lads

Just listened to Eamon's post-match radio interview on the RTE website. He cited young age profile of a good number of players and said, significantly I think, that 'part of this Tipperary team will be back'
And that we would get back to the top over the next couple of years. Clearly he has some rebuilding in mind - which most of us would agree is necessary, especially from 9 to 15.

the player

Sad to see Lar Corbett being jeered as he limped off, as low as you can get from the Kilkenny 'Sporting Public'
I seem to recall King Henry limping off in an All Ireland Final and was given a round of applause from Tipp fans.
The Nolan Park factor was massive with every Kilkenny score and catch lifting the roof off. After that it was a very tight match, with the major breaks going to KK. Commitment was there hunger and desire, just a lack of confidence and conviction with the forwards. Backs were brilliant,and any change that could be made was. JJ Delaney made a lucky block at the crucial stage to deny a winning goal. I have been very critical of team so hands up and I will say, well done boys, pride restored. Give E'OS a chance, Rome wont be built in a day.

Alpha Dog 1

Youngladathome wrote: »

Just listened to Eamon's post-match radio interview on the RTE website. He cited young age profile of a good number of players and said, significantly I think, that 'part of this Tipperary team will be back'
And that we would get back to the top over the next couple of years. Clearly he has some rebuilding in mind - which most of us would agree is necessary, especially from 9 to 15.

I think EOS is well able to talk the talk, but there is very little evidence to suggest that he is attempting to rebuild the team. I wish I had other people's optimism, but the team selection and tactics the last day was the final straw.

Really hope that I'm wrong and that next year we see some fresh young players drafted onto the squad and other players who have repeatedly failed to impress given countless opportunities finally axed.

tippspur

Still shattered after last nights game,hard to accept that we still can't beat KK even with some of their players missing and again it was our forwards that let us down.I haven't read all the posts here but in the ones I did no one mentioned the performance of the ref,I thought he was dire an gave kk an awful lot of soft frees.not saying he was the cause of us loosing but it would break your heart at times seeing the nothing things he gave frees for.

the player

the player wrote: »

Sad to see Lar Corbett being jeered as he limped off, as low as you can get from the Kilkenny 'Sporting Public'
I seem to recall King Henry limping off in an All Ireland Final and was given a round of applause from Tipp fans.

According to some that was all a figment of our imagination and never happened :rolleyes:

ReacherCreature

I think Donal Óg Cusack is a fantastic pundit and RTÉ would do well to keep him on board with Liam Sheedy.

Donal Óg explained my point about Cummins in a better fashion. Some of his puck outs were bad but others were very nearly precise. He was dropping them into fellas who are six foot and over yet Kilkenny defenders were able to get up and over them for the ball. When we weren't winning much from puck outs(or scoring from play) I heard a guy behind me pleading "Just win a ball lads!" but we weren't able to do that in many places. Fundamentals.

Donal óg highlighted the movement in our forwards on the Sunday game from the puckouts and that is one reason why i would consider Eoin and Johno to be redundant. They are far too static and even despite the 2 points Callanan just doesnt do enough. Though my other belief also is that Cummins is putting the wrong trajectory and way too much power in some of them considering the liveliness in the new sliothar and the fact that Nowlan hasnt the same distance as the bigger pitches.

Lar to be fair wreaked havoc and if i could make one exception for a player over the 30 then it probably would be him considering his range of movement but next year he will be a year older with perhaps different life priorities so may not wish to make the commitment understandably. EOS deployed him in the correct way last night and Paul Murphy found him very difficult to live with. We turned over loads in their 40 with him on the field. KK just didnt know what to do. They held their line and hoped for the best.

Next year though we should try every youngster too old for minor in all positions and if they earn their place on the panel they earn it and give some of them GYM programs to get stuck into asap.

evolving tipperary

I think O'Shea needs more time to build...He needs to trawl the county...there were some Team decisions and squad decisions that were wrong which suggests to me the guys over the Squad do not know the club scene well...which asks questions about a man who is a Professor and head of a department in a University...does he have the time for the job in comparison to someone like Cody...a retired teacher...the inclusion of Michael Heffernan has always perplexed me considering he has been outperformed by his younger brother Tommy for the last two years at club level...Niall O'Meara has definitely out performed Buggy this year at club level...but the decision to keep on picking Shane Mac when he has clearly lost all confidence...was very perplexing...to pick kelly as a starting forward when he failed to perform against kk on so many occasions in the championship and other teams...I think kelly was one of our great players and I have the utmost admiration for him but his time is up...O'Shea obviously had a tie to the 2010 team and went back to that when KK had long figured that team out...so that was also perplexing...Can he build a new team? I would back him...but it will take time...a lot of players have been psychologically scared by the kk defeats...and I hope it does not start to affect our defensive players...(what's the point if we have not got the forwards...)....O'Shea definitely deserves the chance to build a new team...players like Noelie and co need to be dropped as they have it too handy in making the team - they need competition to keep them on their toes...John and Liam McGrath should have also been on the squad this year....I don't care how young they are...they are good enough...

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I think O'Shea needs more time to build...He needs to trawl the county...there were some Team decisions and squad decisions that were wrong which suggests to me the guys over the Squad do not know the club scene well...which asks questions about a man who is a Professor and head of a department in a University...does he have the time for the job in comparison to someone like Cody...a retired teacher...the inclusion of Michael Heffernan has always perplexed me considering he has been outperformed by his younger brother Tommy for the last two years at club level...Niall O'Meara has definitely out performed Buggy this year at club level...but the decision to keep on picking Shane Mac when he has clearly lost all confidence...was very perplexing...to pick kelly as a starting forward when he failed to perform against kk on so many occasions in the championship and other teams...I think kelly was one of our great players and I have the utmost admiration for him but his time is up...O'Shea obviously had a tie to the 2010 team and went back to that when KK had long figured that team out...so that was also perplexing...Can he build a new team? I would back him...but it will take time...a lot of players have been psychologically scared by the kk defeats...and I hope it does not start to affect our defensive players...(what's the point if we have not got the forwards...)....O'Shea definitely deserves the chance to build a new team...players like Noelie and co need to be dropped as they have it too handy in making the team - they need competition to keep them on their toes...John and Liam McGrath should have also been on the squad this year....I don't care how young they are...they are good enough...

In fairness to Eamon he got the job at a time the Co Championship was near finished last year. Club hurling is hard to judge too considering the many mismatches in the Tipp senior championship. Mikey Heffernan has a good eye for goal but is very light. He was picked on the back of his performance for the intermediates last year but i feel there is corner forwards out there who would serve us better. His brother Barry who is a very good wing back is one to watch. Tall but very light at the moment.

I would agree re Liam Mcgrath who is hardworking but the cousin John has all the hallmarks of his brother Noel if the minor last year is anything to go by. John Meagher had a serious injury but i believe he will be a championship debutant next year along with probably Tossy Hamill and maybe Seamus Kennedy also who had a great game u21 marking Declan Hannon

Noel has it a bit easy no doubt but David Collins and young Colm O'Riordan are guys who could create much needed competition for him. Denis Maher who was playing well for Sars but he now needs to step it up and find consistency. Id try Tom Kirwan and Dylan Fitzelle too who both have plenty of fire in the belly.

AFAIK Eamon has taken leave from work too.

evolving tipperary

I saw Denis Maher play with the intermediates against Limerick - was very poor - but he might have been carrying an injury...Joey McLoughey was outstanding that day - three beautiful points from midfield....I was thinking about that performance every time shane mac was struggling...i saw joey hurl with Toome a few times this year - always performs well - i know he is light and maybe not the tallest - but a man who can take a long range point and deliver good ball - for me he is definitely a better player than Johnny Ryan or Shane Mac...yet O'Shea dropped him from the panel which he is entitled to do...

John McGrath is a direct runner...he at least deserves a few league games to see what he is made of...rarely misses a free too...outperformed Colm O'Riordan in the Harty this year...

I like the look of Walsh at full for the under 21s...but for me Niall O'Meara looks the real deal...I know Jaons Forde got the MOT against Limerick but I felt Niall pushed him close - he was all action....What about McCormack? he looks small....but I heard his nickname is psycho!!!!

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I saw Denis Maher play with the intermediates against Limerick - was very poor - but he might have been carrying an injury...Joey McLoughey was outstanding that day - three beautiful points from midfield....I was thinking about that performance every time shane mac was struggling...i saw joey hurl with Toome a few times this year - always performs well - i know he is light and maybe not the tallest - but a man who can take a long range point and deliver good ball - for me he is definitely a better player than Johnny Ryan or Shane Mac...yet O'Shea dropped him from the panel which he is entitled to do...

John McGrath is a direct runner...he at least deserves a few league games to see what he is made of...rarely misses a free too...outperformed Colm O'Riordan in the Harty this year...

I like the look of Walsh at full for the under 21s...but for me Niall O'Meara looks the real deal...I know Jaons Forde got the MOT against Limerick but I felt Niall pushed him close - he was all action....What about McCormack? he looks small....but I heard his nickname is psycho!!!!

if its Dan McCormack your on about then forget him. He certainly isnt psychotic on the hurling field by any means. In fact he even has his critics over in Boston at the moment for his attitude and lack of work ethic I believe and this Conor Kenny from Kildare is the very same. In an u21 challenge in Gortnahoe he walked in for a rebound the other night when he should have been in like a juggernaut. Couldnt believe my eyes. If we're picking lads from Kildare then at least pick lads who will battle for us.

EDIT: Sorry just realised its Aidan your probably referring to. A big yes for him. Top notch. Very small but plenty to work with there and another lad id like to see get a try is Tom Butler from Clonoulty

The Woodcock

This was a disappointing end to the championship for Tipp. There'll be no trips to Croke Park in what has been the worst championship season since 1998. Last Saturday evening was a great chance for this team to knock out their biggest rivals (who were considerably weakened by injury), atone for last August and perhaps bring about the retirement of Cody and several Kilkenny greats. It is a terrible pity that this great opportunity wasn't seized.

Well done to Kilkenny, the team and supporters were really up for this game and made it clear from the start that this was going to be a dogfight. It wasn't classic hurling, it was dour with some very poor shooting, but the tension and atmosphere made it a memorable occasion.

Tipp had some bad luck on the night, especially with Lar's injury, but they never looked like winning the game. There was a chance to build up a cushion in the ten minutes after half time but missed scores cost us dearly. We saw once again the old failings of Tipperary hurling that have dogged teams over the last ten years, failure to win high ball in the forward line. I would not fault the backs too much - Kilkenny didn't score a goal and got just one clearcut goal chance. Cahill and O' Mahony in particular had great games. The other backs held their men reasonably well but were guilty of giving away unnecessary frees. From 8-15 however, Tipp were carrying at least three passengers for most of the game and that was going to be fatal. We made Brian Hogan and Tyrell look better than they are. Backs are not always going to be able to deliver top quality ball and the failure to even contest some high balls was disgraceful at this level.

Unfortunately, I think we have now seen the end of Brendan Cummins and Eoin Kelly in the blue and gold. They have been outstanding servants for Tipperary and it is hard to believe that Cummins has been there for 19 seasons and was a dual player for about 6 or 7 of those. It was a sad way for him the end, but be can bow out with his head high. John O' Brien and Paul Curran may chose to go and if they do I'll wish them the best. They may feel they have more in the tank but if Tipp are building for the future they can't be automatic starters. I was pleased with Lar's performance up until the injury and he has a role to play again next year.

Eamon O Shea and his team will have learned a lot. I would like to see him stay on for the sake of continuity and there aren't any other stand-out candidates for the job. But he's a University professor and one would wonder if he wants to stay on. I'm sure he realises that rebuilding Tipp's hurling fortunes will take at least two more years of his time. It wouldn't be a shock if he decided to walk now.
In any case, I don't think management can be full absolved of blame. The players are ultimately responsible but the idea that O' Shea is some kind of tactical guru has been called into question after two championship defeats. He made a blunder in appointing Shane McGrath as captain. A lot of people were surprised at this choice and Shane confirmed their concerns when he used his first media interview as captain to whinge and moan about supporters and how it felt to be misunderstood and unappreciated. He followed this up with a string of below-par performances. Time now for Shane to exit quietly.
O' Shea also brought his own grand-nephew onto the panel straight from minor ranks. Thomas Hamill is a good young lad who has a bright future. But in the history of Tipp hurling, very few players have been good enough to progress straight from minor ranks into senior. John Leahy and Eoin Kelly are the only two to have done it successfully and Pa Bourke was set back by being brought in too quickly. Thomas Hamill is not in the same league as Kelly or Leahy and to have him named on the panel for every league and championship panel smacks of blatant nepotism. We had a repeat of the same caper when Michael Ryan brought his fellow club man onto the panel and straight onto the bench for the Limerick game.

I can't share the optimism of Digzy's post above. If Tipperary are reduced to gaining succor from a league win against a ****e Galway team, we are really in a low place. Thankfully there are good young players coming through which gives some hope, but keeping these lads in jobs and in the country will be the biggest challenge. It will certainly be another 2-3 year before Tipp will be dining at the top table again.

Davin Stand

I would not disagree with anything you have said woodcock. We are all commenting with the benefit of hindsight and there is no doubt that the selection of Shane McGrath as captain was a mistake, but I don't think the choice of captain is a major issue in a team's performance. To me, the big mistake that Eamonn O'Shea and his selectors made was in going back to the 2010 team and expecting to repeat 3 years later what happened that year with the same group of players. It just does not work out like that in any sport. It was a real eye opener during the week to read that our starting 15 on Saturday had 13 players who started the 2010 All Ireland Final. The only players not playing were Declan Fanning (retired) and Gearoid Ryan (returning from injury). To me that was a recipe for failure. I have sympathy for EO'S because the reaction to his appointment as manager was way over the top, We almost took it for granted that the good times were back and that we were on our way up the steps of the Hogan Stand. No manager could live up to those over optimistic expectations, but he did make a major error of judgment in the panel selection at the beginning of the year and the result has been a wasted year. Tipp have played 10 matches since the Waterford Crystal Final up to last Saturday and we lost 6 of them. Those stats. speak for themselves.

The Woodcock

The Woodcock wrote: »

O' Shea also brought his own grand-nephew onto the panel straight from minor ranks. Thomas Hamill is a good young lad who has a bright future. But in the history of Tipp hurling, very few players have been good enough to progress straight from minor ranks into senior. John Leahy and Eoin Kelly are the only two to have done it successfully and Pa Bourke was set back by being brought in too quickly. Thomas Hamill is not in the same league as Kelly or Leahy and to have him named on the panel for every league and championship panel smacks of blatant nepotism. We had a repeat of the same caper when Michael Ryan brought his fellow club man onto the panel and straight onto the bench for the Limerick game.

I agree with most of your post but this bit here is incredibly incredibly harsh. Ive seen Tossy Hamill this year and he has been excellent as well as assured in the challenges he has played for Tipperary. I think your reading too much into the fact that he is related. I know a nephew of Eamon well (who is an uncle of Tossy) and he doesnt know Eamon all that well because Eamon has been living away from home in both Dublin and Galway for so long so i wouldnt say nepotism ever came into the decision to bring Hamill onto the panel.

Anyone who expected a miracle cure this year even from O'Shea would be deluded to be honest. Yes we had a decent chance but I think this is a project that will take 2-3 years to come to fruition. Eamon is quoted as saying that a team in transition needs experience to bring the youth on. This year Bubbles, Forde, and Hamill were added. John Meagher would have been also added had he not picked up an injury and Seamus Kennedy was called up in the latter part of the year. and i have no doubt he'll find the right blend going forward.

I agree that the captaincy choice was very strange one that ill never quite get my head around.

The next 12 months will hurt like a bitch but going forward we are in a great position with a flow of good hardworking and battling players on the horizon.

It was simple things that really cost us on Saturday and it wasn't as one sided on second viewing. The scores from play were equal barring our lack of discipline and like 2009 we should have buried the goal chances presented to us. We drove the few wides at a crucial time which were a turning point. The loss of Lar was critical. Our half forward personnel is basically redundant though. World beaters when they have time and space but useless to contest.

The Woodcock

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with most of your post but this bit here is incredibly incredibly harsh. Ive seen Tossy Hamill this year and he has been excellent as well as assured in the challenges he has played for Tipperary. I think your reading too much into the fact that he is related. I know a nephew of Eamon well (who is an uncle of Tossy) and he doesnt know Eamon all that well because Eamon has been living away from home in both Dublin and Galway for so long so i wouldnt say nepotism ever came into the decision to bring Hamill onto the panel.

Anyone who expected a miracle cure this year even from O'Shea would be deluded to be honest. Yes we had a decent chance but I think this is a project that will take 2-3 years to come to fruition. Eamon is quoted as saying that a team in transition needs experience to bring the youth on. This year Bubbles, Forde, and Hamill were added. John Meagher would have been also added had he not picked up an injury and Seamus Kennedy was called up in the latter part of the year. and i have no doubt he'll find the right blend going forward.

I agree that the captaincy choice was very strange one that ill never quite get my head around.

The next 12 months will hurt like a bitch but going forward we are in a great position with a flow of good hardworking and battling players on the horizon.

It was simple things that really cost us on Saturday and it wasn't as one sided on second viewing. The scores from play were equal barring our lack of discipline and like 2009 we should have buried the goal chances presented to us. We drove the few wides at a crucial time which were a turning point. The loss of Lar was critical. Our half forward personnel is basically redundant though. World beaters when they have time and space but useless to contest.

Thomas Hamill has a good future ahead of him and acquitted himself well in the couple of senior games I've seen him play. But last Saturday evening Pa Bourke was not named on the bench, even though he was good enough to start against Limerick. There were a few others not named on the 26 who also played well in challenge games, some even gone from the panel altogether. It takes a really exceptional player to make the jump straight from minor to senior, a once in a generation player in the mould of Leahy, Kelly or Jimmy Doyle. I just wouldn't have Thomas Hamill in that bracket.

I agree that O Shea was never going to work miracles but the fact is that Tipperary have regressed since 2012. It is time to blood hungry young players. My biggest fear is that in the current economic malaise we are in, it is going to be very difficult to hang on to our young players. Many of them will consider emigration or at the very least spending the summer months in the US where they will have jobs, income and hurling.

evolving tipperary

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/these-guys-are-honourable-men-who-went-to-fight-today-1.1455922

The Woodcock

The Woodcock wrote: »

Thomas Hamill has a good future ahead of him and acquitted himself well in the couple of senior games I've seen him play. But last Saturday evening Pa Bourke was not named on the bench, even though he was good enough to start against Limerick. There were a few others not named on the 26 who also played well in challenge games, some even gone from the panel altogether. It takes a really exceptional player to make the jump straight from minor to senior, a once in a generation player in the mould of Leahy, Kelly or Jimmy Doyle. I just wouldn't have Thomas Hamill in that bracket.

I agree that O Shea was never going to work miracles but the fact is that Tipperary have regressed since 2012. It is time to blood hungry young players. My biggest fear is that in the current economic malaise we are in, it is going to be very difficult to hang on to our young players. Many of them will consider emigration or at the very least spending the summer months in the US where they will have jobs, income and hurling.

Just a few things.

1. I dont believe we regressed. Last year the same opposition beat us by 18. This year they beat us by 3 and everything went in their favour. The extra competitiveness of the championship meant we played in the qualifiers

2. Comparing Leahy's era, Doyles era and Kelly's era to this era where Hamill is starting off is like comparing apples, oranges, pineapples and mangos really. The reason players might be added at a young age now is because of their physical aspects and at 6' 6 Hamill is certainly equipped physically for the demands of modern day hurling where they are virtual Gym monkeys. When he was minor he was playing years beyond his station also.

3. The rest i totally agree with. Its time for a new wave of youth and yes we face economic challenges to keep these boys in the country.

evolving tipperary

O'Mahony has been playing with Newport in the forwards a long time now....would there have been a case to try him for the last 15 minutes up in full forward or center forward just to try and break ball or win possession - he would have been strong enough and good enough in the air to cause any of them problems...might not have come out as fast...

DEFTLEFTHAND

They haven't had it easy since 2010 in fairness when talking about Championship. They powered through Munster in 11 and fought off a feisty Jackeen side in the semi before going down in the final. Of course the usual few started their thing then. They're a load of sh1te etc, cut the socks off everyone involved.

2012 win Munster again before the KK massacre. Still of course a provincial crown. How many of them did Tipp win between 1971 and 1987?

I've heard the usual muck in the past few days in my town and club. Nobody should give up on this team, The nucleus is still young and they'll win more yet.

tippspur

evolving tipperary wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/these-guys-are-honourable-men-who-went-to-fight-today-1.1455922

I'm sorry to say but I don't agree with him,they didn't all fight,some of them did but others definitely didn't fight,that was plainly obvious.Also he did nothing to change the failings of the half forward line, we got the same crap from them as we did against Limerick and in several other games this year and last.:mad:

the player

The bottom line is we lost our two Championship games. The worry was we were ahead by 4 points in each of the Championship matches. If you gave KK a chance like that, game over!
We seemed to lack conviction after we got the goal. Kilkenny had started like a train with two super points.
The goal knocked the stuffing out of them, and if we had made a huge effort in the following minutes; it could have been crucial.
After half-time we went ahead again and Eoin Kelly should have hit the game winning goal.
The one thing I was sure O'Shea would bring was confidence, and we really seem to lack that.
We have shipped a fair few beatings since 2010, and when you go behind that fragile confidence seems to crumble.
We seemed happy enough not to get murdered. It was an honorable defeat, but it masked a lot of things.
We have now had four defeats in a row to KK since 2010, it almost seems like the Tipp jersey inspires them, more than us.
Far from killing the beast, we have now made it stronger. Our lack of killer instinct, is depressing to be honest.
All the talk about changing players is fine, but really its about attitudes.
Wearing the Tipp jersey should empower players, it should strike fear in the opposition. We need to stand for something, we dont seem to have an identity anymore.
Players are wearing the jersey to easily, it should be worn with pride; many great men have carried it bravely.
The manager needs to remind everyone, what it means to hurl for Tipperary.
he is a decent man, and needs time to put his stamp on it.

daniels.ducks

Don't see why people are saying Brendan Cummins should retire. He is still one of the best keepers in the country! This thing of 'misplaced' puckouts and poor puckout is bull **** in my opinion. Brendan Pucks the ball targeting the wing forwards, wing forwards no where to be seen and Walter Walsh is standing under the ball.

Doubt Cummins pucked it out the walter walsh. The ball is pucked and has about three seconds of air time. Now surely that's plenty of time for a player to get under it?

Correct me if i'm wrong but if he was pucking out in a junior b match and a bunch of over weight lads were forwards surely they'm be able to manage travelling 20 yards to get under it before it lads.

The fact of the matter is our forwards stand back and admire the kilkenny players winning the ball. Any of the 'nice' points that we got the other day was lads standing, waiting for the breaks and tapping them over.

Cummins can play in goals until he gets sick of GAA. Sick of the public trying to retire people.

Also this thing with calling for EOS's head is ridiculous. The man can't put that fighting attitude into a players head.

As my father always told me. If your man wins a ball twice in a row you say to yourself, "right i'm going winning this ball no matter what". If you don't win that next ball you might aswell pack it in because no matter how good your man is you can get in his way make things awkward for him break the ball in front of you, just as long as he doesn't win it.

Sorry if my post is all over the place but i'm a bit tired and the concentration isn't the best this time of the night.

The Woodcock

I would hate to see Cummins go to. In my mind, he has been the top goalkeeper over the past twenty years, better than Fitzhenry, Davy Fitz, Cusack and miles ahead anything Kilkenny have been able to produce. If he chooses to stay on, great, but it is very likely in my view that he will choose to call it a day. He has hinted at retiring at the end of the last couple of years and I believe he was prevailed on to stay this year by the appointment of O' Shea. He is now 38 years of age with a young family. No-one who has played for Tipperary since the 1960s has a more impressive haul of honours with two All-Irelands, three national leagues, five Munster championships and five All-Stars, not to mention the record number of championship appearances and numerous Poc Fada titles. We have to accept that he won't be around forever and has given a huge amount to Tipperary.

evolving tipperary

Did anyone notice - I watched the tv3 coverage last night - I don't want to be over analyzing and running players into the ground - but during the anthem as the players were grouped - shane mac and noelie gave each other a little hug and were smiling at each other - a bit of encouragement - but that's hardly war face for championship stuff - just reflects their approach to the game which is fine - but anything other than total determined focus and hunger won't cut the cheese against KK.... a hug and smile that belongs on Oprah Winfrey just didn't seem right...as has been highlighted before on this thread - the mental approach, attitude and hunger is not there

ormond lad

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Did anyone notice - I watched the tv3 coverage last night - I don't want to be over analyzing and running players into the ground - but during the anthem as the players were grouped - shane mac and noelie gave each other a little hug and were smiling at each other - a bit of encouragement - but that's hardly war face for championship stuff - just reflects their approach to the game which is fine - but anything other than total determined focus and hunger won't cut the cheese against KK.... a hug and smile that belongs on Oprah Winfrey just didn't seem right...as has been highlighted before on this thread - the mental approach, attitude and hunger is not there

You don't want to be but you are over analysing the players if you think that was relevant to how the game finished. Don't think that shows anything about a lack of focus or anything similar.

tonyduggan

I think a lot of ye are refusing to believe just how bad we have been the ever since the Munster Final of 2012. We havent won a game since. No positives and onwards and upwards and all that crap, i dont want to go through a 2002-2008 again. We should be winning All Irelands, not having lads afraid to contest a 50-50 ball for god sake

evolving tipperary

Well, that's my opinion and that's your opinion!