The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013

Hidalgo

Deleted User wrote: »

Tipp won the intermediate Munster final tonight 19-18.

Id like to be able to tell you about a good open game i witnessed of a summers evening in the stadium with a few stand out performers but due to the incompetence/pedantry of the referee, i wont be able to. :mad:

I've never been at a Tipperary match at any grade or level where I've been so bored out of my brains that i've wanted to leave and i never thought id face that problem but the contstant blowing for frees almost drove me to leave early, some of which werent frees and others where advantage could easily have been played.

Bear in mind there was little margin between the teams at any time and it was close all the way.

The intermeidate is a grade that struggles to capture the public imagination and struggles to get arses on seats on top of being a technical level well below senior but the performance of the Clare referee, Mr Damien Fox tonight will have done the grade no favours. Quite frankly he was scandalous and for both teams i might add.

Myself and my friend attend alot of Tipp games and tonight on the way home we had nothing to discuss only how a Munster final was ruined by lack of common sense and poor refereeing.

Ah ye had the pleasure of Mr. Fox. Console yourself in the fact that you'll probably never have to first-hand witness him again.

What do you think its like at club games here in Clare. And he doesn't even get the award for most whistle happy ref in the county :eek::eek::eek:

Hidalgo

Hidalgo wrote: »

Ah ye had the pleasure of Mr. Fox. Console yourself in the fact that you'll probably never have to first-hand witness him again.

What do you think its like at club games here in Clare. And he doesn't even get the award for most whistle happy ref in the county :eek::eek::eek:

The way hurling is going we could see more of Mr Fox if anything. He took charge of our minor game v Limerick recently but tbf while many felt Limericks penalty that night was contentious, he generally didnt give us too much to talk about and there was some sort of a flow to the game.

Last night though you had intermediates trying to put themselves in their respective senior managers mind for 2014 but that task was made harder by the constant needless whistle blowing. Games bypass midfield these times and as soon as a half forward got possession or a half back, his counterpart was deemed to have 'fouled' him :rolleyes: so that took them and their respective inside forward and back lines out of the game also. It was effectively reduced to a shoot out. If intermediate should have anything going for it, then at the very least the game should be allowed to flow.

randd1

Deleted User wrote: »

The way hurling is going we could see more of Mr Fox if anything. He took charge of our minor game v Limerick recently but tbf while many felt Limericks penalty that night was contentious, he generally didnt give us too much to talk about and there was some sort of a flow to the game.

Last night though you had intermediates trying to put themselves in their respective senior managers mind for 2014 but that task was made harder by the constant needless whistle blowing. Games bypass midfield these times and as soon as a half forward got possession or a half back, his counterpart was deemed to have 'fouled' him :rolleyes: so that took them and their respective inside forward and back lines out of the game also. It was effectively reduced to a shoot out. If intermediate should have anything going for it, then at the very least the game should be allowed to flow.

I think that's a bit off to be honest, the winning of the games these days is in midfield. Whichever midfield dominates, their team tends to win. These days a midfield is supposed to cover the HB line as well as provide support up front.

Think of any game between two big teams these days, club or county, I can almost be certain that when you do you'll notice the winning sides midfield played the better, and won their battle.

Methinks you've been listening to Babs' theory on light sliothar's too much!!

tippspur

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Flynn agrees:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/tipp-heap-more-misery-on-cork-237435.html

I don't agree with the writer that Cooper should be praised for going for the goal at the end of the game with only a point in it,fcuk it,put the ball over the bar and bring it to extra time and you never know what might happen then.

evolving tipperary

Fact!

randd1

randd1 wrote: »

I think that's a bit off to be honest, the winning of the games these days is in midfield. Whichever midfield dominates, their team tends to win. These days a midfield is supposed to cover the HB line as well as provide support up front.

Think of any game between two big teams these days, club or county, I can almost be certain that when you do you'll notice the winning sides midfield played the better, and won their battle.

Methinks you've been listening to Babs' theory on light sliothar's too much!!

Yeah in the case of the league final its fair to say the midfielders played a pivotal role but from the puckout, the ball is aimed long for the 40. For a shorter game, ball carrying midfielders are pretty crucial alright and the decline in form of Shane Mcgrath for example hasnt gone unnoticed so midfielders still have their part to play indeed.

Im not suggesting that midfielders are cut out of the equation per se, but you would have to acknowledge that teams play a more direct game due to the lighter sliothar and that a midfielder in essence is more of a link player with a free role then any given player who marshalls that particular zone. A midfielder has evolved into more of an athletic type that has to cover every blade of grass
In the scenario i described last night where puckouts were aimed to the 40, each time a free was awarded at both ends and for nothing each time, it negated the need for midfield to come into play because he was blowing far too quick from when the ball was caught.

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

I don't agree with the writer that Cooper should be praised for going for the goal at the end of the game with only a point in it,fcuk it,put the ball over the bar and bring it to extra time and you never know what might happen then.

Im so glad he didnt take the point because no way could i have sat through 1 second more of that borefest then i had done up to then and with the Fantastic Mr Fox in the middle, it just wasnt in danger of being allowed to open up

Youngladathome

A question: does anybody know how long Eamonn O'Shea signed up for - was it for the usual two year period, or on a year to year basis?

Youngladathome

Youngladathome wrote: »

A question: does anybody know how long Eamonn O'Shea signed up for - was it for the usual two year period, or on a year to year basis?

IIRC Premierstone had said 5 years around the time of his ratification last year but thinking about it surely couldnt be that long.

I would hope he stays for 2014 at the very least and lays the bedrock going forward. Dunno what potential successor could honestly come in and do a better job at the present time. Perhaps in the future the likes of Willie Maher, Ken Hogan and/or TJ Connolly might be decent candidates and i wouldnt rule Mick Ryan from Fethard out as being a man who could play some sort of role down the line. Seems a good sort and has the intermediates playing a nice brand of hurling.

ReacherCreature

2 years iirc. Trying to dig up an article that has the length but drying up.

evolving tipperary

We need stability...the last two times we had good teams - the loss of manager and momentum killed us - first nicky and then liam - when a squad has a tight bond with a coach - its very difficult to keep going...Mark O'Leary should also be a candidate - ken hogan was terrible when he was at the helm before at senior...the under 21 he won in 2010 - a sheep dog could have been over that under 21 team they were so far ahead of everyone.... I have not agreed with his selections since to be honest...there is always issues with his team - and his decision to play his own relation (son?) Cian Hogan full forward in 2012 was a very questionable one...he was a very ineffective one...(Forde and McCormack were on the bench...Forde started the munster final after Eanna Murray was injured) what have we to gain by having ken there at under 21???? why wasn't Mark O'Leary allowed to move forward with this group and continue to gain management experience or William Maher? We need fresh young talent...getting their opportunities...learning their trade...finding managers who are committed to staying for a long haul to build a style and pattern of play and stability is needed as much as we need ball winners up front...in fact its more important

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

We need stability...the last two times we had good teams - the loss of manager and momentum killed us - first nicky and then liam - when a squad has a tight bond with a coach - its very difficult to keep going...Mark O'Leary should also be a candidate - ken hogan was terrible when he was at the helm before at senior...the under 21 he won in 2010 - a sheep dog could have been over that under 21 team they were so far ahead of everyone.... I have not agreed with his selections since to be honest...there is always issues with his team - and his decision to play his own relation (son?) Cian Hogan full forward in 2012 was a very questionable one...he was a very ineffective one...(Forde and McCormack were on the bench...Forde started the munster final after Eanna Murray was injured) what have we to gain by having ken there at under 21???? why wasn't Mark O'Leary allowed to move forward with this group and continue to gain management experience or William Maher? We need fresh young talent...getting their opportunities...learning their trade...finding managers who are committed to staying for a long haul to build a style and pattern of play and stability is needed as much as we need ball winners up front...in fact its more important

Id agree nearly all of what you said. I will say that the one thing Ken has fostered the last two seasons has been unbelievable team spirit and hunger. Colm O'Riordan came onto the panel recently. In his brief cameo the other night he hunted down 3 players before dispossessing the 3rd player. Thats the sort of drive we need to harvest going forward

Mark is a smart guy too and had great success with Kilruanes underage teams iirc but didnt have as much luck with our minors in both 09 and 10.

Cian Hogans inclusion was to give us another option. Cian hadnt alot of hurling in him but is a good trier. I think Forde might have been added late last year similar to John Mcgrath this year because of his leaving cert commitments. David Collins was the other injury last year for the u21s and a huge loss he was. I definitely believe we would have beaten Clare with him down in Ennis. He was absolutely wonderful that night we stole it from Cork on the banks of the lee

evolving tipperary

I agree that Hogan does instill a great team spirit that has been evident. I should have stated that to be fair to him. Mark O'Leay did the same - his minor teams were involved at the business end of the season in croke park - losing narrowly to kk - my main point is that O'Leary if he is to be a future senior selector or manager he could be gaining valuable experience at under 21 grade or Willie Maher - but Ken had his go at senior and failed - has he earned another go? has he got the tactical nous? With big man little flanking full and center type of hurling? He is a very honest and straight forward guy...is such a guy good enough? I think we need ruthless...someone who has that greed for success...William Maher looks to have that kind of steel...I think O'Leary does as well....and is still one of Kilraune's best performers at senior - he knows the club scene very well....any man at his age still doing it - has steel...

looder

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I agree that Hogan does instill a great team spirit that has been evident. I should have stated that to be fair to him. Mark O'Leay did the same - his minor teams were involved at the business end of the season in croke park - losing narrowly to kk - my main point is that O'Leary if he is to be a future senior selector or manager he could be gaining valuable experience at under 21 grade or Willie Maher - but Ken had his go at senior and failed - has he earned another go? has he got the tactical nous? With big man little flanking full and center type of hurling? He is a very honest and straight forward guy...is such a guy good enough? I think we need ruthless...someone who has that greed for success...William Maher looks to have that kind of steel...I think O'Leary does as well....and is still one of Kilraune's best performers at senior - he knows the club scene very well....any man at his age still doing it - has steel...

I'd imagine it's Connolly who is instilling the belief and team spirit. I'd rank TJ second only to Liam Griffin in his man motivating skills. When TJ talks, you listen.

looder

looder wrote: »

I'd imagine it's Connolly who is instilling the belief and team spirit. I'd rank TJ second only to Liam Griffin in his man motivating skills. When TJ talks, you listen.

No doubt about it Connolly is an unbelievable asset to any dressing room. I've heard him on the sideline at challenges and the constant advice and encouragement he gives is brilliant. And he was overlooked for jobs by the county board for years despite doing a great job with the Swan.

Ken probably wouldn't be as vocal but i wouldn't underestimate his presence either. Id say a very fair man and has great pride in the blue and gold. Had an ill fated stint as the manager back in 2004 and 05 but hurling, Tipperary, and Ken have come along way since then.

Talking to a father of one of our local county minors it would seem Noel Morris, Brian Horgan and Martin Maher are well received as well as William is. Great to see a few young ideas and ambitions on the sidelines and that the county board are taking more gambles. I would hope that Mark O'Leary will get another crack at minor/u21 selection should he be willing to have a go in the future

keane2097

Pretty cool story here about three first cousins from Tipp who each captained a different Tipp underage team in the one day last weekend:

http://www.livegaelic.com/news/tipperary-cousins-remarkable-achievement/

ReacherCreature

Oh cool. Clonmel lads. My Dad knows their fathers and along with their father they are a pure GAA obsessed family. Nothing but GAA. Judging from the cousins' lineage and parental passion there's a strong chance the kids will carry the game on to senior levels and maybe even line out for their county. It's great to see!

ReacherCreature

Saw this this morning on GAA.ie.

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2307130757-cummins-undecided-on-tipperary-future/

Tipperary goalkeeper Brendan Cummins says he will take a break from the game before making a decision on his inter-county future.

Cummins, 38, has played 73 championship games for the Premier County over 19 seasons having made his championship debut back in 1995.
Speaking at the launch of the M. Donnelly 2013 GAA All-Ireland Poc Fada Finals, the reigning champion said he hasn’t made any concrete decision on his plans for 2014 yet.

“Outside of training the U6s below in Ballybacon, I haven’t picked up a hurley since the Kilkenny game,” Cummins said in the Irish Examiner. “I am going away on holidays on August 10 for 10 days, I just want to see what life is like without hurling so then you can make a clear decision as to whether you want to stick around at home and raise the family or go off with Tipperary again.
“I have been on the road a while, but we’ll see at the end of the summer what ways things pan out.”

“I have been at the seaside with the family for the last two weekends and there are people looking at me going ‘what are you doing down here?’ I am getting to see what life is like during the summer and I must say I am enjoying it.”

Cummins admits it could be time to step aside and let a new generation of goalkeepers in the county to come through.

“You are always trying to weigh it up. On the other side you have to look at it and say ‘am I around too long?’ That’s the other question to be answered.
“It is very easy to say ‘I can still contribute’ and ‘I feel great’ and the whole lot. But you must also remember is there another generation of goalies that needs to come on line now and Tipperary maybe need to start afresh.
“So it’s not just about me. That’s something, when you get to my age, you get a bit mature and realise these things and ask these questions. That is where I am at now.”

Paddico

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Saw this this morning on GAA.ie.

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2307130757-cummins-undecided-on-tipperary-future/

Hope he sticks around for his experience alone.
Hard to believe it was 1995 when he made his debut

Paddico

Paddico wrote: »

Hope he sticks around for his experience alone.
Hard to believe it was 1995 when he made his debut

I personally think the sun has set on his intercounty career and the careers of a couple of others. Time to give new and fresh personnel a go if we're ever to move forward. Great servant for Tipperary but tbh we've let this situation go on for too long. I dont believe that there was a number 2 other than Gleeson the last twenty years that couldnt have at least maintained a better form of challenge then they than they did. We're meant to be a hurling county and yet we've had only one undisputed goalie (Gerry Kennedys spell aside) for the last twenty years?

Youngladathome

Deleted User wrote: »

I personally think the sun has set on his intercounty career and the careers of a couple of others. Time to give new and fresh personnel a go if we're ever to move forward. Great servant for Tipperary but tbh we've let this situation go on for too long. I dont believe that there was a number 2 other than Gleeson the last twenty years that couldnt have at least maintained a better form of challenge then they than they did. We're meant to be a hurling county and yet we've had only one undisputed goalie (Gerry Kennedys spell aside) for the last twenty years?

First saw him play as minor goalie in the 1993 Munster Final at the Gaelic Grounds. Even then he stood out as a great goalie. Was the best shot-stopper I have ever seen - could twist himself like a cat. He has come in for massive criticism for his puck-outs. I think some Tipp supporters have become obsessed with Cummins and puck-outs- especially when we are playing KK. The kind of criticism he has endured on this aspect of his play has not been levelled at any other keeper that I know of. If my memory serves me right he varied his puck-outs brilliantly in the '09 All-Ireland final.
Donal Og Cusack did a good analysis of puck-outs in the recent Tipp/KK clash at Nowlan Pk. which showed that Cummin's is not as bad as his critics seem to think. Can't remember the stats. He also highlighted how difficult it was for Cummins to place puck-outs due to poor positioning and movement by his team-mates.
Anyway, the primary function of a goalkeeper is to keep the ball out of the net and Cummins had no equal when it came to doing that, in my opinion.
I think, though, that it is time for him to go. It's time for new beginnings in Tipp. The old warriors who have gone into battle for us so often can do no more, I think. We need to break our dependency on them and let new leaders emerge, as I'm sure they will.

Youngladathome

Youngladathome wrote: »

First saw him play as minor goalie in the 1993 Munster Final at the Gaelic Grounds. Even then he stood out as a great goalie. Was the best shot-stopper I have ever seen - could twist himself like a cat. He has come in for massive criticism for his puck-outs. I think some Tipp supporters have become obsessed with Cummins and puck-outs- especially when we are playing KK. The kind of criticism he has endured on this aspect of his play has not been levelled at any other keeper that I know of. If my memory serves me right he varied his puck-outs brilliantly in the '09 All-Ireland final.
Donal Og Cusack did a good analysis of puck-outs in the recent Tipp/KK clash at Nowlan Pk. which showed that Cummin's is not as bad as his critics seem to think. Can't remember the stats. He also highlighted how difficult it was for Cummins to place puck-outs due to poor positioning and movement by his team-mates.
Anyway, the primary function of a goalkeeper is to keep the ball out of the net and Cummins had no equal when it came to doing that, in my opinion.
I think, though, that it is time for him to go. It's time for new beginnings in Tipp. The old warriors who have gone into battle for us so often can do no more, I think. We need to break our dependency on them and let new leaders emerge, as I'm sure they will.

I wouldnt dispute his shot stopping was the best around tbh and yes it isnt Cummins fault that all 6'3 of Seamus Callanan or one or two others, cant win an aerial ball (nor do they force the opposition backs to surrender it either). But i do think while he shouldn't be made number one scapegoat that he is not absolved completely from blame either where puck-outs are concerned. I cant help feeling he puts the wrong trajectory in one or two of them. I mean Cummins has seen alot of Tipp forward lines over the years and the one thing they have all had in common was failure to win their own ball and yet he has been netminder all these years.

I wouldnt be of the opinion that the whole idea of goalkeeping is all about shot stopping either. No point in making a tremendous save at one end if its going to come back up to you as quick so the puckouts are a very important aspect of the game.

Black Suir

Does anybody know the capacity of the new stand in Thurles.

Paddico

Black Suir wrote: »

Does anybody know the capacity of the new stand in Thurles.

There is a new stand in Thuurles?

Paddico

Paddico wrote: »

There is a new stand in Thuurles?

Ardan O'Riain which is adjacent to the greyhound track, is for some reason known as 'the new stand' with the larger Ardan O'Coinneann (adjacent to Childers park) known as the Old stand.

Not sure of the capacities but i understand 26000 are seated between the two. I hate the way we are peddled with this spin that Semple is a 'modern' stadium considering taht you still have to be picky where you sit due to all the poles in the way.

Paddico

Havent heard that mentioned in a while so thought the name was dropped and people just called it the main or Ryan stand
At a guess 10000 capacity.
10K for each stand, 15K for each terrace but no idea

ReacherCreature

Deleted User wrote: »

Great servant for Tipperary but tbh we've let this situation go on for too long. I dont believe that there was a number 2 other than Gleeson the last twenty years that couldnt have at least maintained a better form of challenge then they than they did. We're meant to be a hurling county and yet we've had only one undisputed goalie (Gerry Kennedys spell aside) for the last twenty years?

I think it's a case of Cummins being that good that no one else can over take him (or there's a massive generational deficit in talent). Journalist Brian O' Donnell's blog (here: http://blueblood.ie/index.php/fifty-fabulous-facts-you-didnt-know-about-the-tipperary-hurlers/) has fifty facts on the Tipp hurlers and this is one. Seeing off ten players is a good achievement to be fair (even if one of them is a better forward, Eoin Kelly [providing it's him]):

"Since making his debut for Tipperary in 1995 Brendan Cummins has seen off ten pretenders to the number one jersey – Jody Grace (1995), Kevin O’Sullivan (1996-97), Justin Cottrell (1997, 2002-04), Fergal Horgan (1998), Kevin O’Brien (1999), Damien Young (2000, 2005-06), Eoin Kelly (2000), Darragh Rabbitte (2001), Gerry Kennedy (2007-08) & Darren Gleeson (2009-2012)."

Xenophile

Fair play to Brendan Cummins, he is showing great dedication and a great ambassador for the game! I hope he decides to back for another season.

buggy beag

ReacherCreature wrote: »

I think it's a case of Cummins being that good that no one else can over take him (or there's a massive generational deficit in talent). Journalist Brian O' Donnell's blog (here: http://blueblood.ie/index.php/fifty-fabulous-facts-you-didnt-know-about-the-tipperary-hurlers/) has fifty facts on the Tipp hurlers and this is one. Seeing off ten players is a good achievement to be fair (even if one of them is a better forward, Eoin Kelly [providing it's him]):

"Since making his debut for Tipperary in 1995 Brendan Cummins has seen off ten pretenders to the number one jersey – Jody Grace (1995), Kevin O’Sullivan (1996-97), Justin Cottrell (1997, 2002-04), Fergal Horgan (1998), Kevin O’Brien (1999), Damien Young (2000, 2005-06), Eoin Kelly (2000), Darragh Rabbitte (2001), Gerry Kennedy (2007-08) & Darren Gleeson (2009-2012)."

any game i have seen gleeson play this year since jan i have been more than impressed with him and fully believe he is ready to step up.as a goalkeeper i would have alot of time for cummins absolute tipperary legend but if we are to start building again then i think its time to step aside and give darren his chance.

buggy beag

them 50 points on tipperary hurling is very good and wow never realised half of what kelly has achieved.some career he has had.where do ye reckon he would feature in a list of tipperarys greatest players surely top 3?