The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013

buggy beag

finally got around to reading lars book and i must say i quite enjoyed it:D

tippspur

buggy beag wrote: »

finally got around to reading lars book and i must say i quite enjoyed it:D

I read it a while back,enjoyed aswel.

ReacherCreature

buggy beag wrote: »

finally got around to reading lars book and i must say i quite enjoyed it:D

Same here. Worth a re-read.

Anyone catch RTÉ's Skin In The Game last night? Corbett (among others) featured on it and it was a good show. Gets in to the various players motivations, desires, and all the victory/heartbreak that comes with the game. It'll probably feature on the RTÉ player now and it's recommended.

This point was omitted from the show and it's a cracking effort!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDtDcL8szPc

buggy beag

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Same here. Worth a re-read.

Anyone catch RTÉ's Skin In The Game last night? Corbett (among others) featured on it and it was a good show. Gets in to the various players motivations, desires, and all the victory/heartbreak that comes with the game. It'll probably feature on the RTÉ player now and it's recommended.

This point was omitted from the show and it's a cracking effort!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDtDcL8szPc

haha that was a cracking point should have kept it in.yeah very good show thought it was funny listening to the cork lads with the cork accents on them in the ball alley nice little love in they had going there haha:P

lonestar 74

Paddico wrote: »

Best of luck to Loughmore on Sunday. A big game for them vs Dr Crokes

Ya best of luck to Loughmore\C on Sunday. One of the best clubs in the county when it comes to either hurling or football. I just wish that the county had the same spirit and determination. Even when we haven't as good a team as our opponents at least we would battle to the final whistle and leave it all on the field.

lonestar 74

Best of luck to the Holycross Ballycahill Junior B hurlers in the county final against Templederry Kenyons on Saturday afternoon. Trow in is @ 2:00 in the Ragg. H\B have played well so hopefully they can round off the year crowned as champions. It might go some way to making up for the county minor hurling final heart breaker:(:mad:

Comordha

Read in the Indo recently that Pa Bourke is out of the extended team at present. Sounds like O'Shea is getting to work. Few Qs:
1) Which players do you all think are unlikely to be brought back next year & 2) who is the likely rpelacement for Cummins. 3) And is Paul Curran still the man for full back or becoming a little unreliable?

I can't see Shane McGrath playing much of a role next year & am unsure whether Bonnar Maher will start much either despite his relentless work effort. All forwards need to be scoring a couple nowadays not just working hard.

digzy

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Same here. Worth a re-read.

Anyone catch RTÉ's Skin In The Game last night? Corbett (among others) featured on it and it was a good show. Gets in to the various players motivations, desires, and all the victory/heartbreak that comes with the game. It'll probably feature on the RTÉ player now and it's recommended.

This point was omitted from the show and it's a cracking effort!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDtDcL8szPc

you ought have posted lars quote re the washing. "it works for her and it works for me" classic:D
He'll never get over that one. wtf was he thinking

Comordha

Comordha wrote: »

Read in the Indo recently that Pa Bourke is out of the extended team at present. Sounds like O'Shea is getting to work. Few Qs:
1) Which players do you all think are unlikely to be brought back next year & 2) who is the likely rpelacement for Cummins. 3) And is Paul Curran still the man for full back or becoming a little unreliable?

I can't see Shane McGrath playing much of a role next year & am unsure whether Bonnar Maher will start much either despite his relentless work effort. All forwards need to be scoring a couple nowadays not just working hard.

I think Eamon will go with Darren Gleeson though if Egan could shed a stone or two he'd probably be my first choice. Better puck out and very commanding keeper.

Maybe the sprint coach could give Paul Curran that extra bit. Time will tell. He will be on the panel unless the young guns play him off it or he decides to call it a day. He may not start but might be a good man to come in for the last 15.

Bonnar will be ok. He had a blip but we have short memories. The lad was arguably our best player in 2012. His catch and run in the build up to the goal down on leeside was amazing. That was Tipps best team performance under Ryan and i thought we had turned the corner but it would seem to have been a flase dawn as was so cruelly proven.

Pa isnt cut out for intercounty hurling. Very skilful player who supposedly looks after himself really well but he just doesnt have that aggression. A pity really because he is a sterling player to watch. Just has to be his sort of game or else. Bill O'Meara brings that bit more i think. Aggression and skill. Tipp have to learn from Clare's performance this year. You have to be able to work hard when needs must.

Shane McGrath....i dunno. Its sink or swim time for him. Lots of hungry young fellas chomping at the bit to take his midfield spot....He could be in trouble and thats just not referring to his place on the starting 15.

lonestar 74

lonestar 74 wrote: »

Ya best of luck to Loughmore\C on Sunday. One of the best clubs in the county when it comes to either hurling or football. I just wish that the county had the same spirit and determination. Even when we haven't as good a team as our opponents at least we would battle to the final whistle and leave it all on the field.

+1 to that. Whats ironic about that is that the likes of Noel and John Mcgrath are so familiar with that industrial culture at the club and are relatively instrumental for Loughmore and yet when it comes to Tipp there is probably huge question marks over both their workrate.

The Loughmore culture of desire and the 'us against the world' mindset needs to be copied and pasted into the Tipperary setup and probably from a young age.

The meaning of playing for the county seems to be seen as an arrival for some rather than a journey. All too often we've seen Tipp teams bullied out of games. We dont have to resort to filth but Liam Sheedy fostered that mindset im referring to where lads were chasing down, blocking, hooking, and contesting for everything. Since Sheedy left in 2010 we havent seen any of that desire from the team. Even the highly regarded Eamon O'Shea couldnt bring back the bit of industry last year. This year will be a real litmus test for Eamon. Im refreshed to see he has addressed certain issues. The sprint coach was a sound observation as last year we seemed to be standing while other teams seemed to be on rocket fuel.

Alpha Dog 1

Templederry v holycross in the junior B County final finished 12 points each, amazing fight back from holycross considering it was 11 points to 4 with 12 minutes to play. Great attitude and effort from both teams, looking forward to the replay.

Xenophile

Great to see that Hurling League format remains unchanged. For Tipp it means that they will have to take every game seriously as any team could be relegated. I must say fair play to Wexford and Liam Griffin for taking such a tough stand.

Xenophile

So the gulf in class between Dr.Crokes and Loughmore is now evident. Well done to the Tipp club in getting to play in Killarney. It will now be very evident to Loughmore players which code to concentrate on in the League in preparation for the championship.

tippspur

Xenophile wrote: »

Great to see that Hurling League format remains unchanged. For Tipp it means that they will have to take every game seriously as any team could be relegated. I must say fair play to Wexford and Liam Griffin for taking such a tough stand.

GAA make the right decision for once.

ReacherCreature

Comordha wrote: »

Read in the Indo recently that Pa Bourke is out of the extended team at present.

Don't quite understand how Bourke has fallen far from grace. To go from our best attacking player in 2012 (1-2 vs. Limerick, 0-3 against Cork) and our best free taker to appearing in one game this season (Limerick) and now likely that he's cut from the team. Barring talk of Brian O' Meara, Bourke seems to have a target on his back. I think if Bourke got stuck in a little bit more and be that tad more aggressive he could get his place back.

1) Which players do you all think are unlikely to be brought back next year

Hazarding a guess: Johnny Ryan, James Barry, Donagh Maher and John O' Keeffe. They were on the periphery last season. I think Tom Stapleton and Mikey Heffernan are also in the firing line? I think Shane Bourke was very good last season but faded. Do correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I've been wrong on plenty of occasions, like I called for James Woodlock's head numerous times but he proved me wrong against Kilkenny. He actually ran at their defense and that's a method of breaking them down. Show no fear. I'm tired of this showing respect to Kilkenny.

I think at this stage we're unlikely to see any high-profile retirements unless the 'veterans' (to borrow an Americanism) have a good Christmas, think and realise whether they're capable or not. It's an enormous commitment to make, even for one more season.

& 2) who is the likely rpelacement for Cummins.

O' Shea is a hurling man. He has plenty of goalkeepers in mind. I'm not surprised if he has scouts in the county looking for shotstoppers. Seems it's a little bit harder to find goalkeepers who are not all rounders but very good at everything: fantastic shot stoppers, good in the air, commands their area like a battlefield general and has precision puck outs. That is very difficult to find.

Darren Gleeson is Tipperary's man right now I would assume. He has been hanging around since 2008. That's five years of sitting on the bench waiting for your opportunity and featuring in less than a handful of games. This isn't factoring the countless nights of training. All the while sitting behind what many consider one of the, if not, the finest goalkeeper ever. No doubt he's learned a fair amount from Cummins (who got two All-Stars in Gleesons tenure and has been solid). The ambition, desire, and hunger in Gleeson must be phenomenal at this stage. I think O' Shea foresaw Cummins' retirement and thus put Gleeson in a few games - a good decision to let him play consistently.

Plus, Gleeson is 32, time is ticking in his head even though athletically he's got some more years to give. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do.

O' Shea will obviously bring in a couple more keepers to see what he has but I think Gleeson will get the nod. I'd start him in a lot of friendlies/pre-season/Waterford Crystal games in the run-up.

3) And is Paul Curran still the man for full back or becoming a little unreliable?

Got exposed a bit last year and it's been noticeable. Caught for speed against Kilkenny. I think another few players are tried out there and he becomes consigned to the bench as a squad player.

I can't see Shane McGrath playing much of a role next year

I like Shane as a guy and he seems genuine. He's got a charisma about him and is likeable but he had an off year this season gone and he undoubtedly knows it. Midfield is a difficult area to analyse but it was glaringly obvious he wasn't performing. Unless he drops back to the half-back line (where he has played before), or rediscovers form I can only see him featuring as a depth player. Maher and Bergin may have that midfield position but Woodlock will look in and you are risking taking Bergin out of the HB line where I thought he performed finely.

am unsure whether Bonnar Maher will start much either despite his relentless work effort. All forwards need to be scoring a couple nowadays not just working hard.

Everyone knows I wax lyrically of Patrick Maher but Bonner needs one more year at the very least before we turf him out. Unless it was form/fitness/joining the Army that made him have an really off year I think he'll want to bounce back hard. He bleeds blue and gold and hurling is in his blood.

Statistically speaking outside of Pa Bourke, Bonner was up there as our best player in 2012. On his day he's indispensable: dynamic, explosive, wins ball, breaks the half-back line and creates so many scoring opportunities and chances it's ridiculous. Players love him.

Maher doesn't score a whole lot but he's capable and I think he needs to execute in front of goals/posts more and be selfish. I think Maher's talent is game changing and unique. Give me Maher and five good forwards. If we get the in-form Maher working with Corbett, O' Dwyer, Forde, Kelly, Bourke, Callanan, McGrath et al., you're causing trouble.

Things I'm keeping an eye on: Goalkeeping is huge, forwards producing is key (I want goals and points - lots of them. Why not? We're capable and we spluttered on the attack last year). Fitness is a big thing - we looked tired last season.

This stupid mental block the team seems to have is a big one. I love this team, love watching and the commitment is huge and we're only back seat analysts but 2010 needs to be forgotten about as well as our neighbours to the east. The hurling landscape has opened up: we have new Champions, new All-Stars, increasingly competitive teams. Tipperary need to treat every game as a war. They have the management and the squad, why not win?

Clare are now the hallmark, the standard to look at. Davy Fitzgerald has assembled a seriously talented bunch of fellas and turned them into a fearsome outfit. They scored for fun and were decent in defense. They're supremely fit and run all day. They have desire. Let's not write off Kilkenny, Cork, even Galway or any other team but I think we've to look towards Clare.

Xenophile

With the introduction of quarter finals next year in the hurling league, I guess we will have a double header in Semple for at least one of these.

tippspur

I'm hearing that Tipp hurlers are playing a challenge game against Wexford in Clonmel sports field on Saturday 14th of December,could be a fund raiser or something like that,not sure.

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

I'm hearing that Tipp hurlers are playing a challenge game against Wexford in Clonmel sports field on Saturday 14th of December,could be a fund raiser or something like that,not sure.

The date is a bit of a surprise but ill definitely tear into that if it goes ahead. Cheers

Comordha

Thanks for your analysis Reacher. Bergin & Woodlock are key men for next year I feel. Bergin in particular - a ferocious player.

ReacherCreature

Comordha wrote: »

Thanks for your analysis Reacher. Bergin & Woodlock are key men for next year I feel. Bergin in particular - a ferocious player.

Thanks! Don't proclaim to be an expert. Just general musings and thoughts! Big fan of Bergin too. It'll be good to see what he can do over a full League and Championship too.

buggy beag

waterford,clare,dublin at home kk and galway away in the league.luvly jubbly getting excited and the possibility of kerry away in the hurling in january.not the most glamorous tie but never seen us play kerry in the hurling so kinda looking forward to it:D plus they always hammer us in the football so hopfully we can repay them in kind in the hurling:p

ReacherCreature

For any Clonmel based fans, I read on Twitter Tipperary footballers will play their fixture against Waterford in the League at the Clonmel sportsfield.

lonestar 74

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Templederry v holycross in the junior B County final finished 12 points each, amazing fight back from holycross considering it was 11 points to 4 with 12 minutes to play. Great attitude and effort from both teams, looking forward to the replay.

The replay is on in the Ragg @ 1:00 Sunday afternoon. Holycross will be without the services of forward Peter Gavin ( broken bone in his arm / hand ) and midfielder Tom Hayes through immigration ( Oz ).

Alpha Dog 1

lonestar 74 wrote: »

The replay is on in the Ragg @ 1:00 Sunday afternoon. Holycross will be without the services of forward Peter Gavin ( broken bone in his arm / hand ) and midfielder Tom Hayes through immigration ( Oz ).

If the first game proved anything it was that holycross had lots of experience off the bench that possibly should have started so they should be alright given those lads missing.

Alpha Dog 1

lonestar 74 wrote: »

The replay is on in the Ragg @ 1:00 Sunday afternoon. Holycross will be without the services of forward Peter Gavin ( broken bone in his arm / hand ) and midfielder Tom Hayes through immigration ( Oz ).

This game has been called off due to a bereavement.

tippspur

ReacherCreature wrote: »

For any Clonmel based fans, I read on Twitter Tipperary footballers will play their fixture against Waterford in the League at the Clonmel sportsfield.

Look forward to that game.

realdanbreen

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Thanks! Don't proclaim to be an expert. Just general musings and thoughts! Big fan of Bergin too. It'll be good to see what he can do over a full League and Championship too.

Are there any players out there who are not getting an opportunity in the county set up? I am not suggesting it is the case today but when I was growing up there was a certain amount of favouritism shown to players from certain clubs. I'll put it this way, coming from a club like Kilruane McDonaghs certainly didn't hamper your prospects of getting a trial with the Tipp team.

sterling10

Yes, there is definitely still favoritism going on in selecting Tipp teams even the senior team/panel.

digzy

realdanbreen wrote: »

Are there any players out there who are not getting an opportunity in the county set up? I am not suggesting it is the case today but when I was growing up there was a certain amount of favouritism shown to players from certain clubs. I'll put it this way, coming from a club like Kilruane McDonaghs certainly didn't hamper your prospects of getting a trial with the Tipp team.

I really hope you're wrong. It'd be a damning indictment of eamonn o Shea if this carry on still existed. I'd be less cynical. For example there's hardly any players from South or west Tipp on the panel. I believe it's based on merit. It wouldn't make any sense to leave out a lad on another basis.
I believe with a sport like hurling you need to be playing it from a young age. There's no hurling 'nurseries' in west or south Tipp. Perhaps this contributes to the shortage?.

digzy

digzy wrote: »

I really hope you're wrong. It'd be a damning indictment of eamonn o Shea if this carry on still existed. I'd be less cynical. For example there's hardly any players from South or west Tipp on the panel. I believe it's based on merit. It wouldn't make any sense to leave out a lad on another basis.
I believe with a sport like hurling you need to be playing it from a young age. There's no hurling 'nurseries' in west or south Tipp. Perhaps this contributes to the shortage?.

Your fairly spot on on that. Clonmel high school though have being making great strides though in recent years to be fair but it would indicate that if the politicians would use their loaf for once and consolidate then the situation might be a bit rosier down here. It shows what they are capable of when they put their mind together. Dont forget also the South won the inter-divisional tournament at underage level this year for the first time so there is some progress

Scoil Ruain in Killenaule would be probably the closest thing to a nursery in the South but the fact that it catches alot of the Killenaule Mullinahone, Ballingarry, Gortnahoe, Fethard, and Drangan/Cloneen lads.


I would think that the Tipp managers of the past and O'Shea too are more inclined to pick hurlers from Senior clubs. To be fair due the nature of Tipperary club hurling it makes sense as you want guys hurling at the very top with the best preparation involved. A teenager in Skeheenarinky just wont get the same physical and mental preparation as a teenager in Thurles Sarsfields and wont be involved in as big a game.

Marlfield did have Theo English back in the 50s and 60s when they were in their pomp but sadly their fortunes have rapidly declined in the following decades mostly due to depopulation which resulted in the closure and the local national school coupled with growth of Clonmel which then meant that youngsters were more drawn toward their schools and clubs. Its not as if Clonmel clubs have been setting the world of hurling alight either.

I hope to see a day when we will get see top class lads from the likes Solohead and Ballyporeen don the blue and gold but for this to happen, we have to get rid of the tribalism amongst the Tipperary clubs and come up with a way of allow these lads to hurl at the very top level in the club game. The Golden-Annacarthy combination of 2004 proved that it can be done successfully. They pushed Toomevara close in the county final that year.

Ballyhale Shamrocks was originally a merger of 3 villages in South Kilkenny - Ballyhale, Knocktopher and Knockmoylan. What we have is villages deciding to go alone and in these times its a challenge for them to even field a team id imagine. Thomas Hamill will suffer as a result of his local club Killea being so insular from nearby Brackens. Fair enough having a Killea club still in place but why not allow him the chance to play senior as part of a combo?