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The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2013
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Davin Stand wrote: »I would say that Jimmy Doyle is 100% correct in what he says in the paper today.Killarney49 wrote: »Good articly from Jimmy Doyle in today's Examiner. He speaks a lot a truth in it.
Be that as it may he should be alot cleverer about it. Running down his fellow county men further makes Tipperary look like a laughing stock and he is in Babs territory. To single out Lar wasnt right. Sars were bad as a unit on Saturday lets not forget that fact. You win as a team and lose as a team. To single out an individual who was in fact putting in one or two good delveries is not on. Yes he does make good points but he should be constructive in his criticism and it should be aimed at Tipperary as a whole and not one given individual0 -
7 Tipperary players on the Munster Railway Cup Hurling Panel and 2 on the Football Panel. A couple of surprise selections.0
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Yes but they are hardly vintage teams. Neither were coolderry or the antrim crowd last year. I think whats really frustrating is the opportunity lost. When we beat Kilkenny all the factors were in place to dominate for a few years. I agree that Ryan and Dunne were not all to blame. Reading Lars book it alluded to a speech that Ryan made that made the hairs stand on his neck. Also when he got to know Tommy Dunne, he accepted that his passion for Tipp was awesome.
The killer thing is Sars had some chance to win an elusive club title. If they had they could have gone on to dominate for many years. the players are there, they have a conveyor belt of talent. We are losing sight of the fact that opportunity has knocked for greatness at club and inter-county level. It is rare in sport that you can write a bit of real history. Tipp and Sars are birds of a feather. Talented, wonderful to watch, but ultimately they never realize their true potential. as a supporter, you just have to vent your frustration at watching it going down the pan. I apologize if I offended anybody including players and management. Its a tough gig being a Tipp fan, jesus I wish I could come on, and write a fecken eulogy to our greatness!
Supporter my bollo*ks, you clearly have no idea what it entails to be a supporter, I'll tell you what's wrong witrh Tipp hurling, far to many fickle bandwagon fans like yourself who enjoy nothing more than running down their own.0 -
Killarney49 wrote: »Good articly from Jimmy Doyle in today's Examiner. He speaks a lot a truth in it.
Slightly embarassing reading really, not good, he's clambering on a bandwagon that's groaning under the weight of those who hopped on last August. Plus, his statement of "He'd want to cop himself on" completely wrecks his analysis and crosses into personal abuse which makes him look silly, whatever's he's done for the country (and the way he's talking, he should not be bulletproof from examination based on his legacy).0 -
This is Tiperary hurling man. One All ireland every ten years. Ask yourself why. The talent is there. The players are not interested in winning titles. They are mostly on an ego trip. there is no other explaination, unless you think its down to bad luck . They dont work hard enough, they are not commited enough, one all ireland every ten years proves that.
I think you're focusing too much blame on the county without appreciating the external factor of good teams surrounding Tipperary. Kilkenny are/were the [/] dominant force and their success in the 2000s is putting them up there and probably leading the talks of the best hurling team ever. Then you've the winners of Cork, the challenges of Limerick, Galway, and Waterford.
The criticism here is unrelenting and needs to ease up a bit, these are amateur players putting in a truckload of effort and getting nothing for it.0 -
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Davin Stand wrote: »7 Tipperary players on the Munster Railway Cup Hurling Panel and 2 on the Football Panel. A couple of surprise selections.
Great to see Paul Fitzgerald and Paddy Codd on the Football panel , surprised Barry Grogan`s not there as well . Thought Paul was unlucky last year not to be nominated for an All Star award , 5 Championship games and conceded 1 goal , a flukey 1 v Down . His forms not great this year though .0 -
Spirit of 67 wrote: »Great to see Paul Fitzgerald and Paddy Codd on the Football panel , surprised Barry Grogan`s not there as well . Thought Paul was unlucky last year not to be nominated for an All Star award , 5 Championship games and conceded 1 goal , a flukey 1 v Down . His forms not great this year though .
As he didnt play championship last year i suppose the manager in question has to be fair to his competition for that full forward slot.0 -
lads Jimmy is right. Its hard to fathom what Lar is at. He is a forward. Does he think he is the next Henry shefflin. He wants to influence games with a flick here and there and the odd hand pass. Why wont he stay in his position and fight for the ball. he has to accept he is going to be marked, and is a marked man.Three goals in an ALL Ireland ensures close attention. He seems to have lost his nerve,
Maybe the weight of expectation has got to him. He need to go back to what he does best. even if he only gets one ball in space per game theres a goal on for tipp. its time to end this free role crap it isent working, and he is becoming a laughing stock0 -
This one is for Premier stone. you are living up to your name, stone age analysis. its people like you keep us rooted in the loser culture. A supporter is entitled to voice his frustration. thats what we pay our money for. There was a lot of positive stuff said as well. you missed that of course, a bit like you miss the point. Tipperary are not where they should be. take off your rose tinted spectacles and remove your head from your arse!0
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lads Jimmy is right. Its hard to fathom what Lar is at. He is a forward. Does he think he is the next Henry shefflin. He wants to influence games with a flick here and there and the odd hand pass.
Last year's semi-final versus Cork he roamed around in midfield and won a lot of ball and then supplied it forward. I thought he did it well and it was a small factor in victory along with the assist I discuss below. Not a lot do it well, John Mullane did it against Cork too and I thought that was Mullane's play for an All-Star.He wants to influence games with a flick here and there and the odd hand pass
Same game against Cork, he assisted Noel McGrath for the goal. Good influence then, he doesn't have to score goals to influence. Plus the drive to create more chances might be his way of making up for his retirement and maybe to strive to become more one-dimensional than scoring goals. But that analysis is a tad deep and maybe digressiveHe seems to have lost his nerve,
Too soon for that analysis. After his retirement and return he played in three games - one for a half (Cork), one was the debacle (Kilkenny) and the other was the Waterford match. Bar Sarsfields, I think we need to examine his play in the league and the championship this season, that will provide a useful barometer as to if his "nerves" are gone.and he is becoming a laughing stock
I don't hear many laughing at him right now to be fair, maybe after the AI SF but that's faded now bar the best efforts of Jimmy Doyle, a stupid move by Doyle, considering fans and the team need to get on from that and attack 2013.0 -
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Hope you are right. signs not great though. He seems to lack confidence.0
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This one is for Premier stone. you are living up to your name, stone age analysis. its people like you keep us rooted in the loser culture. A supporter is entitled to voice his frustration. thats what we pay our money for. There was a lot of positive stuff said as well. you missed that of course, a bit like you miss the point. Tipperary are not where they should be. take off your rose tinted spectacles and remove your head from your arse!
What positive stuff I must have missed that?? What I have seen is someone who opened account to purposely have a go at Thurles.
No paying money at the gate does not entitle you to criticise hurlers, it entitles you to support your team and fellow county men, a concept that would appear alien to you. If you think that paying €10 at the gate entitles you to publically slag off players all the time hiding behind a username, then surely those same players who train over 100 times a year are entitled to tell you to sling one??0 -
I think Lar fluting around the halfback line is of little or no benefit either,throwing handpasses over his shoulder 80yds from goal is not where he should be.Looks to me like someone who now goes out on the field (late sometimes!) and plays where he wants wandering about here and there happy as long as nobody is close to him.Got a good goal early on against DLS i think and then immediately decided to wander about for the rest of the game.He has now become bigger than the teams he is on in his eyes and it's "all in his head" at this stage i'm afraid unless someone lays down the law to him soon. Everyone has their day and i'm afraid it appears that his time may be gone now.0
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I think Lar fluting around the halfback line is of little or no benefit either,throwing handpasses over his shoulder 80yds from goal is not where he should be.Looks to me like someone who now goes out on the field (late sometimes!) and plays where he wants wandering about here and there happy as long as nobody is close to him.Got a good goal early on against DLS i think and then immediately decided to wander about for the rest of the game.He has now become bigger than the teams he is on in his eyes and it's "all in his head" at this stage i'm afraid unless someone lays down the law to him soon. Everyone has their day and i'm afraid it appears that his time may be gone now.
Completely agree with this, Lar is out there and playing his own game, he's still doing some good things but his benefit to the team is inconsistent. I think its up to the manager to decide how he wants Lar to play and tell him to tow the line.
The one thing about Lar is he's shown to be a versatile player who can help out in numerous different positions, if his head is right he's a huge asset to have but he needs to be directed in his play, at the moment he's roaming too much and doesn't seem to be operating to any game plan.0 -
Completely agree with this, Lar is out there and playing his own game, he's still doing some good things but his benefit to the team is inconsistent. I think its up to the manager to decide how he wants Lar to play and tell him to tow the line.
The one thing about Lar is he's shown to be a versatile player who can help out in numerous different positions, if his head is right he's a huge asset to have but he needs to be directed in his play, at the moment he's roaming too much and doesn't seem to be operating to any game plan.
Lar doesnt strike me as someone who wouldn't take orders tbh. Yes Lar may have suggested the tactic implemented last year but i have no doubt that he would not have carried it out had Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne not agreed to it. I think its high time people put last years episode to bed and get on with it.
I dont for one second believe that Lar isnt doing what he is being instructed to do either by Thurles Sars or Tipperary. Personally id prefer to see him either between half forward and full forward line or between midfield and the half forwards and leave him give his marker a tour of the park but if management decide different then there is nothing we can really do about it. Ive no doubt Lar knows who is in charge of Tipperary and that Eamon O'Shea will get the best out of him this year.
What is more unhelpful to Tipperary is the tendency for ex hurlers who think they have the right to publicly attack the present team. Lar probably lives no more then 5 minutes away from Jimmy Doyle yet had to read about it first hand on the examiner how Jimmy said he should cop himself on. Not right. Maybe its nothing Jimmy wouldnt have said to his face and tbf to Jimmy he hasnt exactly been the most vocal man since retirement media wise. Perhaps he was caught after the match and said it in the heat of the moment which would be a logical explanation....but it was wrong either way and shame to those vulchers in the media who keep preying on our ex players for soundbites not long after the whistle.0 -
at the moment he's roaming too much and doesn't seem to be operating to any game plan.
Why all the fuss about Lar roaming? Isn't that how Lar has always played for Tipp? Wasn't the problem for him in the 2011 final - apart from Tyrell's groping - that he was forced to stay inside? Let's not forget that in 2011 he had an outstanding year for Tipp and would have walked HOTY had we won the AI.
As for Jimmy Doyle. Being one of the all-time great hurling artists doesn't give him the right to undermine his club and his county. He must be taking a leaf from the ex-Galway players book. The only time I've heard ex-players from Kilkenny speaking about their county men is to support and defend them. Remember the outcry when Joe Canning dared to criticise the great Henry? Has any former Tipp player spoken in support of Lar, highlighted his contribution to Tipp's AI wins in 2001 and 2010? NO.
Let's face it: Kilkenny have been superior to us in every way over the last number of years. We got it right in 2010 but the abdication of the management team was a major setback to our ambitions. All we can do is quit whining and making a show of ourselves, take our beating, as was done in the past, maintain a dignified silence as we await our chance to prove the naysayers wrong about Tipp hurling. Oh, and support E. O'Shea and our players as they work towards putting a successful team together.0 -
I don't for a second think what Lar was at last year was anyone's tactic but Ryan and Dunnes. Any player who goes out and plays like that of their own free will would be subbed straight away if the manager didn't support the tactic. I actually put no blame on Lar for that.Deleted User wrote: »Lar doesnt strike me as someone who wouldn't take orders tbh. Yes Lar may have suggested the tactic implemented last year but i have no doubt that he would not have carried it out had Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne not agreed to it. I think its high time people put last years episode to bed and get on with it.Youngladathome wrote: »Why all the fuss about Lar roaming? Isn't that how Lar has always played for Tipp? Wasn't the problem for him in the 2011 final - apart from Tyrell's groping - that he was forced to stay inside? Let's not forget that in 2011 he had an outstanding year for Tipp and would have walked HOTY had we won the AI.
Lar's roaming is fine if there's a reason for it and under Sheedy (and hopefully O'Shea) there was but last year it looked like he was just told to roam, it wasn't part of a larger plan. And as good as he can be out the field i like seeing Lar isolated around the edge of the square, something similar to his first goal in 2010 final.0 -
With regard to a previous post about being a supporter. The word support means lend assistance. That does not mean telling people everything is hunky dory, when plainly its not. you cant be giving lads plaudits for what they did two years ago. Your only as good as your last game. Stop building lads up and making them think they are brilliant. Once a guy thinks he is brilliant he stops working hard. Its all about him then not the team. the reality is, its got to be all about Tipperary hurling,not individuals.
The jersey is all that matters. Players have to learn thats its an honor to represent Tipp, on and off the pitch. I hear a lot about the sacrifices these players have to make to play. Driving home and back, late hours etc. Lads it not the army. They love to hurl and are well compensated for playing. Mick O'Connell used to row home to Valentia Island for christs sake.My point is if they are going to put in this amazing effort, why not leave it all on the pitch. What is the point of sacrificing so much, if you are not giving 100 percent in matches.
Nobody saying they have to win all the time, but an 18 point hammering in an ALL-Ireland semi-final, giving the motivation they had, and the prize at stake, suggests somethings seriously wrong with our preparation mentally.
Again thanks to T[pp Gunner for the quality and insight of his great posts.0 -
This one is for Premier stone. you are living up to your name, stone age analysis. its people like you keep us rooted in the loser culture. A supporter is entitled to voice his frustration. thats what we pay our money for. There was a lot of positive stuff said as well. you missed that of course, a bit like you miss the point. Tipperary are not where they should be. take off your rose tinted spectacles and remove your head from your arse!
What Premierstone doesnt know about the game or what goes on around the game could be written on a postage stamp with a yard brush.0 -
With regard to a previous post about being a supporter. The word support means lend assistance. That does not mean telling people everything is hunky dory, when plainly its not. you cant be giving lads plaudits for what they did two years ago. Your only as good as your last game. Stop building lads up and making them think they are brilliant. Once a guy thinks he is brilliant he stops working hard. Its all about him then not the team. the reality is, its got to be all about Tipperary hurling,not individuals.
The jersey is all that matters. Players have to learn thats its an honor to represent Tipp, on and off the pitch. I hear a lot about the sacrifices these players have to make to play. Driving home and back, late hours etc. Lads it not the army. They love to hurl and are well compensated for playing. Mick O'Connell used to row home to Valentia Island for christs sake.My point is if they are going to put in this amazing effort, why not leave it all on the pitch. What is the point of sacrificing so much, if you are not giving 100 percent in matches.
Nobody saying they have to win all the time, but an 18 point hammering in an ALL-Ireland semi-final, giving the motivation they had, and the prize at stake, suggests somethings seriously wrong with our preparation mentally.
Again thanks to T[pp Gunner for the quality and insight of his great posts.
I think the preparation is not so much mental tbh and i went up to the match that day with great anticipation. I think Tipp either looked jaded or are not practising things in training that they should have. They were either not as fresh as their opponents or werent getting tight enough on them. The Lar/Tommy debacle masks the real issues i think. It was a factor of why we lost but not the whole reason. Part of me admires them for trying something different but its a short term solution to something that needed to be solved throughout the 70 minutes. It did throw Kilkenny off for a small bit but a smart coach like Cody wont be fooled like that for a whole game.
The one exception i take to that tactic is that they tried to implement it throughout the match. The first few minutes it worked but after that Lar should have went between midfield and half forward and let Jackie or whoever follow him if they like. Tyrell is not all Corbett or people make him out to be. Dont forget Rory Jacob roasted him in 2011.
We hadn't the strong men in charge last year that could lead tbh. I dont blame Lar for suggesting things because as decent as guys as they are they just weren't thinking men like O'Shea. I dont think Tipp are uncommitted. The main problem as previously stated is that they dont know how to win dirty ball apart from Bonnar (Buggy and Bubbles not bad either). Almost like Spain's failings in football for many years we have many 'Xavi and Iniesta' type hurlers who are brilliant on the ball but very much redundant without it. When these lads get used to battles then i think the all ireland titles will arrive and the same goes for the footballers
The problem is that these lads hurl in a championship with f*ck all intensity and badly needs revamping. Pa Bourke scored 6-3 vs Loughmore and his next game was against Kilkenny. I mean could there really be worse preparation?0 -
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Youngladathome wrote: »Why all the fuss about Lar roaming? Isn't that how Lar has always played for Tipp? Wasn't the problem for him in the 2011 final - apart from Tyrell's groping - that he was forced to stay inside? Let's not forget that in 2011 he had an outstanding year for Tipp and would have walked HOTY had we won the AI.
As for Jimmy Doyle. Being one of the all-time great hurling artists doesn't give him the right to undermine his club and his county. He must be taking a leaf from the ex-Galway players book. The only time I've heard ex-players from Kilkenny speaking about their county men is to support and defend them. Remember the outcry when Joe Canning dared to criticise the great Henry? Has any former Tipp player spoken in support of Lar, highlighted his contribution to Tipp's AI wins in 2001 and 2010? NO.
Let's face it: Kilkenny have been superior to us in every way over the last number of years. We got it right in 2010 but the abdication of the management team was a major setback to our ambitions. All we can do is quit whining and making a show of ourselves, take our beating, as was done in the past, maintain a dignified silence as we await our chance to prove the naysayers wrong about Tipp hurling. Oh, and support E. O'Shea and our players as they work towards putting a successful team together.
I will say that it could possibly be a case of some smart arse hack overhearing him outside O'Moore Park or catching him not long after the whistle when emotions were running high. Jimmy in fairness to him has always been quiet and very supportive of Tipperary and Sars since he retired. Sometimes love of your team can cloud your judgement. In Babs case though i think its a man with a humongous ego and a high sense of self importance. Anyone who would slate a team who was performing well such as we were between 08 and 10 in fairness thats all they are at.
Former hurlers though can get strange ideas. I have always liked Len Gaynor but i believe he recently opposed the reduction of the county championship. 'The more teams, the more games, the better' said he at the last county meeting....Has he seen a club game the last few years to come out with that apart from a county final?0 -
Yes you never hear any dissent from the land of milk and honey. Eddie Keher was quoted as saying he never saw this magnificent Kilkenny team pull a dirty stroke. Love is truly blind Eddie !
Still I reckon if they went without an All Ireland for 10 years, the tune might change. I think a lot of the stuff coming out is pure frustration. It seemed we had turned the corner and left inconsistency behind us. Yet we remain dogged by the inability to turn talent into a winning combination on a consistent basis.
We seem to take one step forward as in 2010 and two steps backwards.0 -
Best of luck to our ladies templemore and the abbey CBS in the final of the corn an uachtarain senior B final today, great to see two tipp teams meeting in the final, our ladies are very strong this year and playing the dr harty cup final next weekend also ....0
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Yes you never hear any dissent from the land of milk and honey. Eddie Keher was quoted as saying he never saw this magnificent Kilkenny team pull a dirty stroke. Love is truly blind Eddie !
Still I reckon if they went without an All Ireland for 10 years, the tune might change. I think a lot of the stuff coming out is pure frustration. It seemed we had turned the corner and left inconsistency behind us. Yet we remain dogged by the inability to turn talent into a winning combination on a consistent basis.
We seem to take one step forward as in 2010 and two steps backwards.
Good point tbf0 -
Was watching Laochra Gael on TG4 the other night and it was on Eddie Brennan. One of the sayings he said KK use is "I'm not willing to die for an All-Ireland but i'm willing to kill for one". Its a sentence that jumped out to me, the hard edge killer instinct with that team is fierce, not sure do we possess the same thing. Its a cold blooded attitude i'd love to see us adopt0
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Was watching Laochra Gael on TG4 the other night and it was on Eddie Brennan. One of the sayings he said KK use is "I'm not willing to die for an All-Ireland but i'm willing to kill for one". Its a sentence that jumped out to me, the hard edge killer instinct with that team is fierce, not sure do we possess the same thing. Its a cold blooded attitude i'd love to see us adopt
Firstly Shane 'Rocky' McGrath announced as new captain with Brendan Maher number 2. Surprised with the choice of Rocky tbh. Good hurler but i never seen him as captain material. Brendan Maher good choice for number 2 though. He could possibly have staked a claim for main man too
On that sentence, its quite incredible the transformation of Eddie Brennan over his career really. He had little aggression for the first few years of his intercounty career but it slowly evolved into his game and his persona and fair credit its not an easy trait to become accustomed to but he is proof it can be drummed in with the right attitudes.
In 2010, we were hunting in packs but looked jaded and almost disinterested the last 2 years. We badly need to get that edge back.0 -
Yes you never hear any dissent from the land of milk and honey. Eddie Keher was quoted as saying he never saw this magnificent Kilkenny team pull a dirty stroke. Love is truly blind Eddie !
I read a quote somewhere from John Doyle which said that the present Kilkenny team is hurling the way Tipp used to in the glory days and that Tipp are hurling like the Kilkenny teams of that era who could never beat Tipp: lots of lovely stick-work but never able for the shoulder to shoulder clashes or winning ball when the heat is really on.
Tipp found a way of beating KK in 2010 with speed of movement, endlessly creating space with players interchanging positions constantly, quick passes around the half-forward line.
KK - and Dublin - found a way to counteract this in 2011. They simply crowded the areas where Tipp used to create space. Remember the Leinster final of that year - against Galway, I think? - how the KK forwards covered back to their half-back line. I remember Richie Power, who started as corner forward, clearing ball from his own corner back position. Something similar happened in the semi-final against Waterford John Mullane was forced out to midfield and won loads of ball to score three points - but he couldn't get in past the forty.
In the AI semi-final of that year Dublin packed the midfield and half-forward areas where Tipp used to create so much space and stymied our forward play. Sitting in the stand that day it was frustrating to see Paudie Maher win loads of ball that day and pump it endlessly in to our forwards who could never win high ball. Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne were lambasted for this 'route one' tactic and trying to get players to win their own ball - unfortunately for them most of our forwards are stick-men with no great stomach for a physical battle. The result was catastrophe and humiliation.
It will be interesting to see what E. O'Shea comes up with this time - he has said that 2010 and the way Tipp played then is irrelevant now.
Unlike Tipp Kilkenny have stick-men who will work their arses off and won't shirk the physical challenges - they are - or have been, the almost perfect hurling machine. E. O'Shea seems to be going with the same type of forwards, Joson Forde and Bubbles seem like the real deal, other than that? It's hard to see what's going to change for Tipp.
Maybe time, as with the legendary Tipp machine of the sixties, is the only thing that will stop the KK juggernaut in the end.
Will it happen this year?0 -
I like Shane McGrath as the captain. Good hurler and seems a bit of a character amongst the lads, I think that could help. Also in a couple of interviews he had, I thought he came across well. He has that mixture of skill and experience but not being too old, so he's in touch with both youth and the older lads.
I was mightily impressed by this statement from him: "Like you can train all you want, and run up and down the field, and you can do all the skills you want, but if you have no confidence in yourself there’s no point in going out onto the pitch.” It's really true. I think confidence is the key for this season. We were badly battered last year and lost confidence so this season we need it back. The guys are skilled and talented enough, with confidence, determination and belief, we can drive on. The interview with the very good journalist, Shane Stapleton is here and it's a good read too: http://eircomsports.eircom.net/News/Shane-McGrath-interview-Blocking-out-the-noise.aspx0 -
I was at a 'talk' from Brian Cody a couple of years back and he used the very same phrase.Was watching Laochra Gael on TG4 the other night and it was on Eddie Brennan. One of the sayings he said KK use is "I'm not willing to die for an All-Ireland but i'm willing to kill for one". Its a sentence that jumped out to me, the hard edge killer instinct with that team is fierce, not sure do we possess the same thing. Its a cold blooded attitude i'd love to see us adopt0 -
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No,I think he meant he's literally prepared to kill someone;)Was watching Laochra Gael on TG4 the other night and it was on Eddie Brennan. One of the sayings he said KK use is "I'm not willing to die for an All-Ireland but i'm willing to kill for one". Its a sentence that jumped out to me, the hard edge killer instinct with that team is fierce, not sure do we possess the same thing. Its a cold blooded attitude i'd love to see us adopt0
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