Is Getting Married Just Mindless Conformity?

LivelineDipso

I was just thinking about the Gay adoption thread and thinking about the need to get married. Most married people I know are not happy and staying together 'for the sake of the kids'. The rest are seperated, divorced, getting divorced...

Very few I can say are truly happy as a married couple. Most are just playing the game because getting married is what you do...

What makes Gay people want to emulate this? In some Western Countries the divorce rate is over 50% now and in some parts of the USA is close to 80%.

Yet people still 'tie the knot' and think it is something THEY HAVE to do.

It's just social conditioning like religion when you think about it and considering the VERY SERIOUS legal implications of getting married, then why so many people enter into it without due consideration for the full implications and often negative consequences?

Being in love is not a valid excuse - that's just homones and neuro-transmitters.

Max Power

Is starting stupid threads just mindless conformity?

LivelineDipso

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Is starting stupid threads just mindless conformity?

Can't you tell I am single and lonely?

mikemac1

LivelineDipso wrote: »

In some Western Countries the divorce rate is over 50% now and in some parts of the USA is close to 80%.

I did a bit of looking and cannot find this 80%

Where is the USA has 80% divorce rate?

Do you mean 8%?

The Dublin Whale

I only know of 1 couple who have been married for more than 10 years and are still happy. Every other married couple seem to be going through hell, yet somehow think they are doing their kids a favour by staying together. Why people still get married these days is beyond me.

mr_edge_to_you

mikemac1 wrote: »

I did a bit of looking and cannot find this 80%

Where is the USA has 80% divorce rate?

Hollywood. Mind you RTE has a high separation/divorce rate too.

mikemac1

The Dublin Whale wrote: »

Why people still get married these days is beyond me.

Tax credits :pac:

LivelineDipso

The Dublin Whale wrote: »

I only know of 1 couple who have been married for more than 10 years and are still happy. Every other married couple seem to be going through hell, yet somehow think they are doing their kids a favour by staying together. Why people still get married these days is beyond me.

Women pressure men into it. A lot of Irish guys still won't bag their cocks so they end up knocking up some woman they were dating and this leads to getting married.

Stupid.

Grayson

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Being in love is not a valid excuse - that's just homones and neuro-transmitters.

part of it is. everyone, including you, knows couples who have lasted till they were both elderly and were in love.
Physical/hormonal attraction is only part of it and a deeper bond can be formed.

But I'll readilly agree that a large majority of people have gotten married because it was expected. not nessecarilly by society but by themselves. It's something a lot of people believe they have to do. Meet someone -> date -> get married -> get a morgage -> have kids etc... (sometimes the steps get mixed around).

But yeah, marriage isn't for a lot of the people who get married.

LivelineDipso

Grayson wrote: »

part of it is. everyone, including you, knows couples who have lasted till they were both elderly and were in love.
Physical/hormonal attraction is only part of it and a deeper bond can be formed.

CREATIONIST!
(sorry couldn't help myself)

dd972

Just as absurd is the way single or celibate folk are looked down upon as though their lives are less authentic or worthy especially if they're not ''getting any'', a lot of single folk don't make a conscious decision to emulate Morrissey and not have relationships, it's just the way the cookie crumbles for them.

Most of the most stultifyingly dull people I've encountered are married and some of the most interesting folk I've met have been single.

You don't need to be married to have a life.

galwayrush

16 years married here, it's been fantastic.:)

darced

This post has been deleted.

HondaSami

Most marriages go through ups and downs same as any long term relationship, some people stay together for the wrong reasons but many stay together because they want to.
No couple is perfect but compromise on both sides will make life easier and happier imo.

Grayson

dd972 wrote: »

Just as absurd is the way single or celibate folk are looked down upon as though their lives are less authentic or worthy especially if they're not ''getting any'', a lot of single folk don't make a conscious decision to emulate Morrissey and not have relationships, it's just the way the cookie crumbles for them.

Most of the most stultifyingly dull people I've encountered are married and some of the most interesting folk I've met have been single.

You don't need to be married to have a life.

I know some married couples who are the dullest people you will ever meet. Ok, they were dull as single people, but as married people they are just seemed to get worse.

3ndahalfof6

No it is just mindless, what a waste of money.

HondaSami

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What is the difference in your longterm relationship and a married one?
why are you happy you did not get married? is it any easier to leave a relationship that does not have a marriage certificate?

Fromthetrees

Marriage isn't for some, one of my best buds is going out with the mother of his child years and years. I think it's for anti religious reasons.

I personally think marriage can be good. Getting married, having kids and being a nuclear family is the ideal situation. It might be social conformity for some but marriage certainly has it's place in society, I think it is the cornerstone with which a country is glued together.

Kintarō Hattori

Getting married when you don't really love the person isn't mindless conformity- it's just plain stupid. In my humble opinion there are a lot of stupid people in this world OP. If a large segment of people you know are married but not in love, I can only hazard a guess that you know a lot of stupid people.

Call me old fashioned but I'd only ever get married if I truly loved the other person as with the act of marriage you're making a symbolic statement to that person- that they are the one, you love them dearly and want to spend the rest of your days with them.

I'm with my partner 8 years. We'll get married eventually, when the timing is right. Before marriage came saving for a home, then a car and a little restocking of savings.

Marry someone you don't love- you're an idiot. Marry someone you love- it's a showing of the commitment you have for that person.

Agricola

Theres the guilt too! Friend of mine is with his gf 5 years now. Hes 29, shes 34. Hes keeping his head down and hoping it goes away but it won't. Hes getting it in the neck bigtime from his future in-laws, his own family and from various others. Her clock is ticking and if he doesnt man up soon, she will do it for him I reckon!

UCDVet

Yes, married people are just mindless conformists...

And it only took decades of declining marriage rates/increasing divorce rates for a brave non-conformist, such as yourself, to speak out against it!

SmilingLurker

I am happily married. Marriage is not for everyone.

Find someone who will challenge you and your ideas, and will encourage you to do things. Someone you are crazily attracted to, is kind friendly and you can talk to comfortably about everything. It is something that you work on willingly each day. You will not always agree, but if you make someone else's life better by being a better partner it is the most rewarding thing in the world. Then talk about it, if it suits the two of you, go for it.

I lucked out and met someone who was right for me. I wouldn't have married her otherwise. I had a civil ceremony and am not religious (so it is not necessarily a reason not to get married)

Wattle

There is a degree of social conditioning involved. Marriage is painted as a magic bullet that will make you happy until the end of your days. I'm not married but I know a lot of married couples who simply fall out of love after a certain amount of time. No one could have forseen it least of all them. If they have children it can become a tragic situation.

Ella

I know a lot more happily married people than unhappy ones tbh.

livinsane

I've always thought that people get married because they want to throw an awesome party with all their friends and family. You don't really get a chance to do that any other time.

dd972

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20871328

Just read about this murder-suicide in London, no doubt many a singleton would have passed them by in the street thinking ''if only that were me'', it just goes to show

KwackerJack

Ah I think at this day an age its a meaningless piece of paper and a session to 90%.

Look at how many people have been married many times, surely that '1 special person' idea was gone by the second marriage.

Friend of mine is getting married to his Fiancée pretty soon as he wants rights over his children.

His name is on the birth cert of all 3 kids...for god sake is that not enough :rolleyes:

Unmarried fathers have no rights yet they have a right to pay for the child regardless :rolleyes:

So the basically for a small few its love...for other its for basic rights!!

I know a few who have had a Civil Ceremonial to 'Show others' how serious they are....if your truley happy with your partner then a piece of paper will make no difference what so ever

Annasopra

Yes in answer to the OP

http://queerkidssaynomarriage.wordpress.com/

Morag

No getting married is not mindless conformity it's a contract which affords people legal rights and protections.

Having a large, expensive wedding, you can't afford on the other hand....

KwackerJack

Morag wrote: »

No getting married is not mindless conformity it's a contract which affords people legal rights and protections.

Legal rights to a persons wealth if it goes belly up?? Legal right over a persons own children??

My son is my son, I am his father by blood and by my signature on his birth cert.

My Fiancée took my son a while back and went missing for several days, First question the Gardai asked 'Are you Married' :mad:

Oh sorry I didn't no the state will ignore the safety of my child because I am not married :rolleyes:

I will get married but for 1 big reason...to have rights over my own flesh and blood and that is the only reason!

Morag

You don't have to be married to have legal guardianship of your child, you do how ever not get it automatically, you have to apply for it and if a garda didn't' know that then they are an idiot.

hoodwinked

Agricola wrote: »

Theres the guilt too! Friend of mine is with his gf 5 years now. Hes 29, shes 34. Hes keeping his head down and hoping it goes away but it won't. Hes getting it in the neck bigtime from his future in-laws, his own family and from various others. Her clock is ticking and if he doesnt man up soon, she will do it for him I reckon!

See that to me is wrong! it actually reminds me of my brother in law and his new wife,

they had been dating 6 years when i met my husband, we went on to have our daughter and agreed to get married based on factors such as

a. We loved each other,
b: we got along fantastically in every sense from day to day living to the way we are in general.
c: for him to have full rights to our daughter (which i maintain he should have anyways)
d: to improve our finances since we are living together with joint finances anyway via tax credits

there were loads more reasons which influenced our decisions in the positive for marriage,

from the moment we got engaged the brother in law was not only getting the quoted above, but decided him and his new wife had to get in there first (aka before his little brother got married) even though we were living together with a child, we saw each other warts and all, they never lived together.

they rushed everything because she believes herself to be some kind of princess and of course had to have the fairytale wedding to continue her 'fairytale' life, before 'we stole the limelight'

we pretty much did exactly what we wanted...our way on our budget.

ill let you decide which one worked out better,

anyone who gets married like they did, to be married 'first' or because they have been dating long term (especially when not living together) is a fool. They should get married because its something they themselves decided to do, not because of outside influences.

KwackerJack

Morag wrote: »

You don't have to be married to have legal guardianship of your child, you do how ever not get it automatically, you have to apply for it and if a garda didn't' know that then they are an idiot.

Was never mentioned. He simply said well if the child is with the mother there's nothing I can do!! Thanks for that info

A bit off the subject I apologise!

Doc Ruby

Ah marriage is a fool's game. Granted it once served a purpose but these days you'll save a few (very few) euros on the taxes (maybe) in exchange for all sorts of legal obligations and the potential for a bill that will make your savings into pocket change if things don't go just right.

If you love someone you shouldn't need a legal contract to spend your life with them. If you don't love someone you shouldn't be trying to legally bind them to you. Some say that the contract helps keep two people together when things get rough - if they can't stay together when things get rough anyway maybe they shouldn't be together.

Don't get married. Its not natural.

livinsane

KwackerJack wrote: »

Was never mentioned. He simply said well if the child is with the mother there's nothing I can do!! Thanks for that info

A bit off the subject I apologise!

It is straightforward enough to obtain legal guardianship if the mother consents.

If not, contact your local district court. They have family law days where you can apply for a court order for guardianship.

See here

And don't mix up custody with guardianship as the former has less rights, e.g. mother can still obtain a passport without your consent.

thier

In my opinion, the only reasons to get married are

1) you desperately want to have children or
2) you have lived life to the full, done everything you possibly wanted to do with your life and now you've nothing left to do. And you're old and incapacitated so you get married because you've nothing better to do anyway and it's the one thing you haven't done yet.

Madam_X

Marriage isn't a mere slip of paper. If you want to be in a long-term relationship with no familial or legal/financial ties to each other (e.g. if one partner dies, may as well be a stranger) and if you have children and the father doesn't want an increase in his already miniscule parental rights, fine. But marriage will ensure all of the above is looked after.
What way the marriage is marked/celebrated is up to the couple.

Plenty of men want to get married too btw.

Seems to be some projecting on this thread - why be so bothered by other people's decision? And those who are vehemently opposed to it might change their mind if/when they meet the right person. It isn't always something that's forced. Lots of marriages don't work out, that's true (just like lots of long-term relationships don't work out) but not taking the chance in case it doesn't work out is stupid IMO.

RADIUS

I would argue that it is conformist to be anti-marriage nowadays.

When I told my friends and family that I was getting married (at 25), I suffered a lot of derision and slagging from 'mates' who could not wrap their heads around it. Some extended family members had trouble with the idea as well, not in the least because she is 'foreign'.

We did it with a civil ceremony that cost very little.

Best thing I ever done was marry my wife.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Mr Benevolent

No-one has mentioned that in Ireland marriage is the only way of legally having all the concomitant rights of access to your children if it goes wrong.

anncoates

I'll ask the wife and get back to you.

Mr Benevolent

RADIUS wrote: »

Some extended family members had trouble with the idea as well, not in the least because she is 'foreign'.

She's from Cork?

dj jarvis

so are single people, or couples who are not married, any happier or un happy than married people ?

your post assumes that the former are happier than married couples
and this assumption is stupid

every section of society is as un happy or happy as each other in equal measure

what is it about about AH today and the not so intelligent threads

Banjaxed82

As far as boring/fighting/divorcing married couples, etc, etc.

From the perspective of someone who's parents split up when I was young. I had a kid prior to marriage, got married, then had 2 more kids (with same woman). My conclusion is this: Marriage doesn't change a relationship. Kids do.

People like to make a big deal about it, but it's just a piece of paper. Kids are the real "marriage" that people often refer to (knowingly or not) in these discussions.

keithclancy

LivelineDipso wrote: »

I was just thinking about the Gay adoption thread and thinking about the need to get married. Most married people I know are not happy and staying together 'for the sake of the kids'. The rest are seperated, divorced, getting divorced...

Very few I can say are truly happy as a married couple. Most are just playing the game because getting married is what you do...

What makes Gay people want to emulate this? In some Western Countries the divorce rate is over 50% now and in some parts of the USA is close to 80%.

Yet people still 'tie the knot' and think it is something THEY HAVE to do.

It's just social conditioning like religion when you think about it and considering the VERY SERIOUS legal implications of getting married, then why so many people enter into it without due consideration for the full implications and often negative consequences?

Being in love is not a valid excuse - that's just homones and neuro-transmitters.

I got married in a Hotel by a registrar ... whats that got to do with religion ?

hoodwinked

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

As far as boring/fighting/divorcing married couples, etc, etc.

From the perspective of someone who's parents split up when I was young. I had a kid prior to marriage, got married, then had 2 more kids (with same woman). My conclusion is this: Marriage doesn't change a relationship. Kids do.

People like to make a big deal about it, but it's just a piece of paper. Kids are the real "marriage" that people often refer to (knowingly or not) in these discussions.

i agree with what you say on kids being the 'real' marriage in that i came across a journal about two years ago where a study showed that 50% of couples who marry before having a child end up divorced, and 10% (roughly- maybe less it was 2 years ago) for couples who had children before marrying. the fact that out of every 2 couples without children 1 of them will get divorced is why it stuck in my head.


the jist of what they were saying the stress, the sleepiness nights along with the adjustments of having a third person taking all the love and affection was a relationship killer amongst married people

where because unmarried couples were technically not tied together it was a more psychologically 'im here because i want to be' thing as opposed to the married peoples 'im here because i have to be' that did the most damage!


i don't agree marriage is just a piece of paper though, its more than that its a legally binding institution which offers privileges and protections to your other half, little things like legally taking your husbands name (or him taking yours) all add to these. It also defines the extent of your relationship, it says i am committed to this man/woman for life because i chose to. a piece of paper doesn't do all that.

BraziliaNZ

For a while, after all my mates back home got pressured into getting married by their GFs, I thought women were just crazy wedding and child obsessed lunatics. I've been lucky enough to have met similar minded women to myself in the last few years, so my opinion has changed! Each to their own I guess, but I'm just relieved to know I'm not the only one who thinks it's a load of bollocks, and these ridiculous weddings with speeches etc make them want to vomit. Why people must inflict them on their friends and relatives is beyond me.

dj jarvis

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

For a while, after all my mates back home got pressured into getting married by their GFs, I thought women were just crazy wedding and child obsessed lunatics. I've been lucky enough to have met similar minded women to myself in the last few years, so my opinion has changed! Each to their own I guess, but I'm just relieved to know I'm not the only one who thinks it's a load of bollocks, and these ridiculous weddings with speeches etc make them want to vomit. Why people must inflict them on their friends and relatives is beyond me.

but not everyone has that type of wedding , i have been to plenty that have been as far from the norm as you like

a case of each to their own , and mostly sour grapes from most i suspect

LivelineDipso

I also read once that childless married couples have the most successful, long-term and happy unions. If this is true, then this is a very telling stat.

BraziliaNZ

dj jarvis wrote: »

but not everyone has that type of wedding , i have been to plenty that have been as far from the norm as you like

a case of each to their own , and mostly sour grapes from most i suspect

I would say the majority of people have that wedding, in Ireland anyway. All of my friends said they were just going to elope, or have like 20 people there, then they turned into castles in Offaly and whatnot.
I suppose it's just something I'll never get.

Mrmoe

Spending huge sums of money on a wedding just for the sake of it is pointless and mindless conformity. I married my wife in a civil ceremony with no more than 20 people there. That is what we wanted but some people would make you believe that it isn't a proper wedding unless you have a huge crowd and spend lots of money.