Playoffs 2012

SantryRed

The Guardian wrote: »

IMO the QB of the future has to be more RG3 than Brady / Luck / P Manning

but, players like RG3 need additional safety nets
you cant expect to reap the rewards from such a diverse player without putting together an appropriate platform for him to perform in

Shanahan has a lot to answer for
Watched the presser last night and it was pathetic
Altho the journalists were a bunch of wimps afraid to lose their press passes

this whole RG3 chapter stinks - hope he makes it back sometime in 2014

I wouldn't put Luck in the same category as Manning and Brady. Luck can take off when he wants to. He's more comparable to Rodgers than Manning/Brady/Brees.

The Guardian

fair enough..
a slightly less evolved version of RG3 (and Vick) tho

Justin10

Seriously Shanahan couldn't win. Cousins was not ready end of story.

If he took him out, he would have been crucified if they lost.
He leaves him in and lost, its bad but will all be forgotten when he is back.

Imo he actually might of lost his job if he had taken him out as early as people wanted.

Only way Shanahan could of got out of this mess was if they won, I have no clue why RG3 could not of just kept going shoutgun. Either play the draw or throw short routes, which suits the receivers they have and see if they can break away.

Seeing him run the option and limp for 8 yards was stupid.

Masked Man

Rochey18 wrote: »

Seriously Shanahan couldn't win. Cousins was not ready end of story.

If he took him out, he would have been crucified if they lost.
He leaves him in and lost, its bad but will all be forgotten when he is back.

Imo he actually might of lost his job if he had taken him out as early as people wanted.

Only way Shanahan could of got out of this mess was if they won, I have no clue why RG3 could not of just kept going shoutgun. Either play the draw or throw short routes, which suits the receivers they have and see if they can break away.

Seeing him run the option and limp for 8 yards was stupid.

yeah your right he was ****ed either way. The media would slate him and there'd probably be some angry tweets and some angry forum posters. But his job is to make decisions for the short and long term benefit of the Redskins. Putting the best thing that has happened in god knows how long to a $1.5b+ franchise at risk is far more worthy of a firing than playing it safe. RG3 is a ridiculously special and rare asset and putting him at risk for the possibility of winning one game, even a play off one, is very dumb (especially when it was unlikely he'd be able to play the next game). Having a designed run for a one legged QB was a special level of stupid. There'd be no talk of firing if he'd played it safe, if RG3 is out next season there probably will be.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

yeah your right he was ****ed either way. The media would slate him and there'd probably be some angry tweets and some angry forum posters. But his job is to make decisions for the short and long term benefit of the Redskins. Putting the best thing that has happened in god knows how long to a $1.5b+ franchise at risk is far more worthy of a firing than playing it safe. RG3 is a ridiculously special and rare asset and putting him at risk for the possibility of winning one game is very dumb (especially when it was unlikely he'd be able to play the next game). Having a designed run for a one legged QB was a special level of stupid. There'd be no talk of firing if he'd played it safe, if RG3 is out next season there probably will be.

I cannot agree with this. The reason Mike Shanahan was hired by the Redskins was to win. Thats the no.1 thing and he would have been ripped to shreds by the media if he took out Griffin early and they lost. The only reason people were attacking the decision was because Cousins had looked decent in a game and also in hindsight because they lost. When Cousins came in the other night he wasn't up to it. Shanahan would have been destroyed by the media for putting him in earlier with the way he played when he did come in.
RG3 might be a special talent but he comes with a proviso which is that running QBs get injured a lot. Its always been the case and it always will be. Nothing you can do about it. His career could last any length but its a hell of a lot more likely to be a short one.

Masked Man

eagle eye wrote: »

I cannot agree with this. The reason Mike Shanahan was hired by the Redskins was to win. Thats the no.1 thing and he would have been ripped to shreds by the media if he took out Griffin early and they lost. The only reason people were attacking the decision was because Cousins had looked decent in a game and also in hindsight because they lost. When Cousins came in the other night he wasn't up to it. Shanahan would have been destroyed by the media for putting him in earlier with the way he played when he did come in.
RG3 might be a special talent but he comes with a proviso which is that running QBs get injured a lot. Its always been the case and it always will be. Nothing you can do about it. His career could last any length but its a hell of a lot more likely to be a short one.

Didn't Shanny go in to the interview and tell Snyder that he had a five year plan and that if he couldn't commit to it that there was no point in taking the job? Pretty clear indication that he was obviously thinking long term. don't know why the **** he abandoned it against the hawks.

His job is to win short and long term.

just casue RG3 is a running QB doesn't mean the coach gets a pass for making horrible decision wrt his health.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

Didn't Shanny go in to the interview and tell Snyder that he had a five year plan and that if he couldn't commit to it that there was no point in taking the job? Pretty clear indication that he was obviously thinking long term. don't know why the **** he abandoned it against the hawks.

His job is to win short and long term.

just casue RG3 is a running QB doesn't mean the coach gets a pass for making horrible decision wrt his health.

He made a decision during a game to stick with his starter. Nobody told him that he was at risk of serious injury. Its still not known how serious it is by the way. The old injury is confusing matters and they probably won't know for a couple of days how bad/no so bad it actually is.

I just don't get how you can go put it all on Shanahan when its clear he wasn't aware of how bad it was. He spoke with Griffin and he said he was good to go. Griffin said on twitter that anybody who thinks he should have pulled himself out has probably never experienced the heat of battle.

Imo Shanahan was right to stick with RGIII, no way I'd go to a backup QB unless I had to. Why wait four years to win a Superbowl when you are just three games away from it with a win in this game?

Justin10

I wasnt claiming that fans would want him fired or even that he deserved to be.
What I meant was that Dan Snyder is a loose cannon He has finally got his franchise QB, he is also obsessed with winning, and has pumped money into this roster.

For Shanahan to take RG3 out early and like I said during the game, I felt Cousins wouldn't be ready, it could have been the 10 they lost by and another 14 on top.

That for Dan Snyder could of been a sack able offence.
What annoyed me was the plays, if he has a bag knee you have to go shotgun, and they use it effectively when he is healthy with the draw to Morris.

They do need an upgrade at Wr though.

Masked Man

eagle eye wrote: »

He made a decision during a game to stick with his starter. Nobody told him that he was at risk of serious injury. Its still not known how serious it is by the way. The old injury is confusing matters and they probably won't know for a couple of days how bad/no so bad it actually is.

I just don't get how you can go put it all on Shanahan when its clear he wasn't aware of how bad it was. He spoke with Griffin and he said he was good to go. Griffin said on twitter that anybody who thinks he should have pulled himself out has probably never experienced the heat of battle.

Imo Shanahan was right to stick with RGIII, no way I'd go to a backup QB unless I had to. Why wait four years to win a Superbowl when you are just three games away from it with a win in this game?

Even if you don't think about future season I still think this was a situation where you had to. And if you want to think about the future than your seriously risking future play offs/SBs for the chance of this one (which again was going to be reduced even if they won because of RG3s injury). btw Cousins had been a fairly decent backup to this point, there was a fairly good chance that he'd be ok. btw I'd be pretty pissed if I was cousins, Shanny basically said that he thinks RG3 at like 33% is better than cousins.

They might not have known the exact details of the injury, but it was pretty obvious that RG3 was ****ed. He could barely walk/run and his throwing wasn't great. I in no way think RG3 should have taken himself out of the game. He plays QB and the coach makes long term decisions.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

Even if you don't think about future season I still think this was a situation where you had to. And if you want to think about the future than your seriously risking future play offs/SBs for the chance of this one (which again was going to be reduced even if they won because of RG3s injury). btw Cousins had been a fairly decent backup to this point, there was a fairly good chance that he'd be ok. btw I'd be pretty pissed if I was cousins, Shanny basically said that he thinks RG3 at like 33% is better than cousins.

They might not have known the exact details of the injury, but it was pretty obvious that RG3 was ****ed. He could barely walk/run and his throwing wasn't great. I in no way think RG3 should have taken himself out of the game. He plays QB and the coach makes long term decisions.

The coach is dealing with offense, defense, special teams, players, the opponent and what they are doing and above all else a playoff game. You want him to think of the long term future with all that going on?

Sorry but for me and just like RG3 said, thats the comment of an armchair fan who has never been in the heat of the battle either as a player or a coach in any sport.

Masked Man

Just lol at all of that post.

I've explained my position as well as I can. Not really much point in talking to you anymore.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

Just lol at all of that post.

I've explained my position as well as I can. Not really much point in talking to you anymore.

Well if you have never been in a position like that even at amateur level then you really couldn't understand. Laughing at the post makes me think you have never been.

SantryRed

Rochey18 wrote: »

Seriously Shanahan couldn't win. Cousins was not ready end of story.

If he took him out, he would have been crucified if they lost.
He leaves him in and lost, its bad but will all be forgotten when he is back.

Imo he actually might of lost his job if he had taken him out as early as people wanted.

Only way Shanahan could of got out of this mess was if they won, I have no clue why RG3 could not of just kept going shoutgun. Either play the draw or throw short routes, which suits the receivers they have and see if they can break away.

Seeing him run the option and limp for 8 yards was stupid.

How was Cousins not ready?

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

How was Cousins not ready?

Cousins was taken as a development prospect to cover for RGIII as its always likely he is going to miss games.

He came in during the regular season when Griffin missed time due to concussion and seemed to do well enough. He came in on Sunday and looked terrible. He just isn't ready for big games like the playoff game the weekend.

UnitedIrishman

Rochey18 wrote: »

If he took him out, he would have been crucified if they lost.
He leaves him in and lost, its bad but will all be forgotten when he is back.

I don't get this though. If he takes him out, and says 'look we know you're tough but you could be doing long term damage and we're taking you out', how could the media slate him? I mean every man and his dog can see that RGIII is badly injured. That little turn at the end was just the straw that broke the camels back.

A coach has a responsibility to say enough is enough.

Justin10

Look no matter what he done he would be questioned.

If he had took RG3 out he could be questioned about how hurt RG3 was, is this rookie a quitter?

Instead of asking me how cousins not ready, maybe ask how would cousins be ready.

He is a guy drafted to sit on bench develop and hopefully trade him like New England trying to do with Mallet when drafting him. How could he be ready to run an offense against one of the best defences in the league.

I can't believe this is such a big deal, seems to happen every post season.

SantryRed

eagle eye wrote: »

Cousins was taken as a development prospect to cover for RGIII as its always likely he is going to miss games.

He came in during the regular season when Griffin missed time due to concussion and seemed to do well enough. He came in on Sunday and looked terrible. He just isn't ready for big games like the playoff game the weekend.

He came in at 24-14 when RGIII was just knocked out of the game horrifically. No QB would have been able to get it done then. All of the energy was suck out of the game. If Cousins had have come in in the 2nd quarter, they would have still been running the ball too and he would have played well enough to put some points on the board.

Syferus

Cousins would have been a better option but they showed zero faith in him even when it was obvious RG3 had physically fell apart. It was bizarre because Cousins proved in the regular season he is a very capable QB himself. They knew RG3's knee was gimped for weeks so surely they would have been putting in even more prep with Cousins to ensure he was ready for the call when needed?

Shanahan simply made a wrong and extremely dangerous call. He needs to cop on for next season or RG3 is going to be ground to dust before his rookie contract expires. The 'heat of the battle' excuse is exactly why a coach as experienced as Shanahan should be able to step back and put absolutely no weight in how much a player wants to be play and judge his participation on the realities of his health and his importance to the future of the franchise. This wasn't a broken finger or even a sprain, this was the already injured knee of possibly the most athletic man to ever play the QB position. A permanently damaged knee would be nothing short of a disaster for RG3, the Redskins and Shanahan himself. Way too risky.

Sometimes there's something greater at stake than a team's season.

Syferus

The Guardian wrote: »

fair enough..
a slightly less evolved version of RG3 (and Vick) tho

Less 'evolved'? Just different, nothing more.

There will always be place for pocket passers because by doing that one thing great you can be an elite QB. You'll never hear a great slash QB called elite if they can't play inside the pocket at a high level.

Rodgers remains the best QB in the league because he has that but also can scramble for yards when he sees a good opportunity. He doesn't risk serious injuries in the main, which is the biggest downside to the likes of RG3 especially who isn't built anything like even a Newton or a Tebow. You can rely on Brady and Manning to be there for 16 games barring a freak injury but no one in their right minds could say before a season they expect RG3 or Vick to complete a season without missing time.

There has been more of a move towards athletic QBs and I fully support that but it's unlikely to ever replace pure passers as the gold standard.

Son Of A Vidic

Totally agree with you there Syferus, what makes it so much worse is the serious injury RG3 had already suffered to the same knee. Watching a badly gimped young QB on the pitch making a hobbling run to the sidelines, is not something any franchise should allow to happen. What makes it even more laughable, is you had Shanahan trying to hide behind RG3's old injury after the game. I mean talk about missing the point.

Morrisseeee

Watching the game live I couldn't understand why they were leaving RGIII in there in such a condition, my thinking was that even if they win he won't be fit enough for the challenge the following week, so why risk a serious injury !!

Long term though, the way RGIII plays, I can't see him having a 'long' prosperous career !

The Guardian

See thats where the issues lies
Shanahan has to put a gameplan together that better protects the QB
or else just purchase the next peyton manning
He cant expect to leverage RGIIIs extraordinary talent by not putting a system in place that allows this

Masked Man

Chris Mortensen reporting a complete tear of RG3's ACL and LCL. He'll have surgery for a total knee reconstruction in a couple of hours and recovery time is 6-8 months.

spank_inferno

Masked Man wrote: »

Chris Mortensen reporting a complete tear of RG3's ACL and LCL. He'll have surgery for a total knee reconstruction in a couple of hours and recovery time is 6-8 months.

Shame alright.
Hope he comes back strong.

What are peoples feelings regarding the Redskins playing surface.

I know its winter, but that field looked like a cabbage patch.

Is there any advantage to playing on sod or would they (& RG3) benefit from a synthetic surface?

taidghbaby

spank_inferno wrote: »

Shame alright.
Hope he comes back strong.

What are peoples feelings regarding the Redskins playing surface.

I know its winter, but that field looked like a cabbage patch.

Is there any advantage to playing on sod or would they (& RG3) benefit from a synthetic surface?

There has been research into playing surface / footwear regarding injuries! I think more in the footwear surface relationship than the surface on its own! I have an article at home I might try dig it out later!

Though it really depends on when RG3's acl injury first occurred! Did he injure it a few weeks ago (that was a hit not surface related) and was this a continuation of it - presumably so! Have also heard that it was the reconstruction that was done a few years ago has been torn completely!

But yeah to answer your question surface would have a part to play in non contact acl injuries!

The Guardian

Couple of things to clarify here
it is extremely unlikely that the ACL was damaged at any other point than his final play on sunday - it definitely wasnt injured in week 8/9. He would not have returned as he did.

and of course it is the reconstruction that has been ruptured - whether it is a full tear or not is all that needs to be confirmed

surface would definitely have been an issue - it certainly was for the final play. not saying he wouldnt have suffered the injury anyways (on a synthetic field) but the risk was increased on the shambles of a park maintained by his own club

Paully D

Paully D

Masked Man wrote: »

Chris Mortensen reporting a complete tear of RG3's ACL and LCL. He'll have surgery for a total knee reconstruction in a couple of hours and recovery time is 6-8 months.

Man, that's rough. Even the longest recovery time of 8 months gives him a chance of being ready for the start of the season though. Hopefully he comes back even stronger.

Masked Man

Paully D wrote: »

Man, that's rough. Even the longest recovery time of 8 months gives him a chance of being ready for the start of the season though. Hopefully he comes back even stronger.

That might be wrong. USA Today got this text from his dad:

“Robert’s ACL is intact, but not enough for his profession,” Robert Griffin II said. “You and I could be fine. But he is an athlete. So they will replace.”

DDC1990

Paully D wrote: »

Paints that incident in a completly different light.

He's an arrogent SOB, but just seems that Williams wanted a piece of him.

Nice words to RGII after the game.

Ares

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Anyone catch the clip there of Richard Sherman mouthing off again at the end? For a man that should have been serving a drug ban, he sure knows how to draw attention to himself.

spiralism wrote: »

Taunting a team that was effectively crippled for 45 minutes...class act. Cortland Finnegan all over again.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Pity there was no crowd around because Williams would have laid him flat.

spiralism wrote: »

Think there's a bit of bad blood there already between the two teams. Still rather classless but that's how he rolls and i'd say the Washington players gave as good as they got, least before Seattle pulled away.

I'd love to see him get shown up like Finnegan did by Andre Johnson, **** me that was hilarious.

In light of this;

Paully D wrote: »

Any chance of a few words of apology for Sherman?

Dymo

spank_inferno wrote: »

Shame alright.
Hope he comes back strong.

What are peoples feelings regarding the Redskins playing surface.

I know its winter, but that field looked like a cabbage patch.

Here's what the surface was like before the game

http://telly.com/01N9CG

Pretty bad

DDC1990

As I said, I see it in a different light, then before but...

Should he get an appology? Hell no! He's still taunting the team and their fans from the sideline.

"Bye, better leave now and beat the traffic."

Also, im sure this clip isn't showing everything Sherman said that night.

You can be sure that Williams didn't want to smack him about for no reason.

Justin10

God Shermans head absolutely smacks the guys head behind him.

Was there a problem between them two?

Love how he says nothing in shock and then starts running his mouth again when Williams is gone

spiralism

Ares wrote: »

In light of this;

Any chance of a few words of apology for Sherman?

Totally. Definitely paints him in a different light, he was just having a bit of fun, being respectful to RG3 and Williams was just being thick because he lost.

Don't blame him half ****ting himself when Williams started too, if ya came home and caught Trent Williams in bed with your missus, you'd tuck him in.

bruschi

Ares wrote: »

In light of this;

Any chance of a few words of apology for Sherman?

why?

all the comments you quoted said about him mouthing off, taunting and saying how they hoped Williams had him on his own.

Even on the selected for TV clips, they still showed him mouthing off and talking trash for the majority of it. He may be a good player, but is a classless fool and as much as others say they would want someone like him on their team, I wouldnt agree with that. I'd prefer someone who can do their job and not have to mouth off to everyone about what they did, or stand in front of fans taunting them on the sidelines.

I'd also like to see some context too on the Williams hit, and why he did it, rather than just the actual hit. If Williams came up to him and smacked him one for no reason then I'd be surprised. Stupid thing to do too, Sherman is basically a giant WUM and by reacting like that they win.

Like Finnegan and Johnson, despite Johsnon getting a few cracks at him and giving him what he deserved, he got ejected when should have just pointed at the 20-0 scoreline.

Bloody*Mary

hey!

Any chance of concentrating on FOOTBALL rather than the crap that goes on in the periphery ?

Getting like the EPL in here .

Let's concentrate on the big picture rather than goons who want to make a name for themselves.

Hate that mindset which puts these issues above the real stuff.

manafana

Paully D wrote: »

great video, shows that skins player took the little bit of bate and ran with it, shermans not worst in the league, not at the level of finnegan who will bring up anything to annoy a player

counterlock

I read the thread title in Jim Mora's voice

Bloody*Mary

manafana wrote: »

great video, shows that skins player took the little bit of bate and ran with it, shermans not worst in the league, not at the level of finnegan who will bring up anything to annoy a player

'bate' ?

Anyone

Shame about RG3, wonder how much extra damage was done keeping him on for so long. Hopefully he makes a full recovery and is back playing next season as he's a really enjoyable QB to watch.

Son Of A Vidic

Ares wrote: »

In light of this;

Any chance of a few words of apology for Sherman?

Are you for real? Sherman's is still and always will be a mouthy, lip flapping, classless scumbag.

Son Of A Vidic

Anyone wrote: »

Shame about RG3, wonder how much extra damage was done keeping him on for so long. Hopefully he makes a full recovery and is back playing next season as he's a really enjoyable QB to watch.

I'll tell you how much damage was done, last month RG3 had a sprained right Lateral Collateral Ligament (LCL). Surgery was not required, nor was it an issue. But not only did playing against the Seahawks significantly damage the LCL further. He also re-injured and needed a surgical repair of his right Anterior Crucial Ligament (ACL). All of this was totally avoidable. I'm sure we all wish the kid the very best and a 100% recovery. I just hope his health is managed better in future, when he returns to the field.

Dymo

A franchise quarterback getting a career-altering injury is much worse than bad publicity. It's the coach's job to make the right decisions for his team and if that means bad publicity...so be it. Personally I think Shanahan just got greedy and careless.

But in this case RGIII couldn't run, couldn't jog, and could only sort-of make a short burst, by that point, the read option threat he brought to the offense was pretty much erased and furthermore he couldn't even plant his foot to throw. There's no way he was a better option than Cousins (unless the team secretly hates playing with Cousins or something like that).The whole situation is just bizarre and I don't see how Shanahan did anything but screw up big time for his team and potentially career of his star rookie QB.

Hope RGIII makes a full recovery.

rebel girl 15

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'll tell you how much damage was done, last month RG3 had a sprained right Lateral Collateral Ligament (LCL). Surgery was not required, nor was it an issue. But not only did playing against the Seahawks significantly damage the LCL further. He also re-injured and needed a surgical repair of his right Anterior Crucial Ligament (ACL). All of this was totally avoidable. I'm sure we all wish the kid the very best and a 100% recovery. I just hope his health is managed better in future, when he returns to the field.

The official line from his surgeon is that RG3 had his lateral collateral ligament repaired (which was the one that he had previously injured) and his ACL in his right knee reconstructed for a second time.

The fact that he had previously had to have his ACL reconstructed should have waved red flags when he injured in LCL in December - he was at a much higher risk of tearing it again. The majority of research on cruciate ligament injuries has been done in the States, and has proven that a man who’s torn his cruciate is five times more likely to tear that again than someone who hasn’t.

http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/andrews-issues-statement-rg3-surgery

rebel girl 15

Dymo wrote: »

A franchise quarterback getting a career-altering injury is much worse than bad publicity. It's the coach's job to make the right decisions for his team and if that means bad publicity...so be it. Personally I think Shanahan just got greedy and careless.

But in this case RGIII couldn't run, couldn't jog, and could only sort-of make a short burst, by that point, the read option threat he brought to the offense was pretty much erased and furthermore he couldn't even plant his foot to throw. There's no way he was a better option than Cousins (unless the team secretly hates playing with Cousins or something like that).The whole situation is just bizarre and I don't see how Shanahan did anything but screw up big time for his team and potentially career of his star rookie QB.

Hope RGIII makes a full recovery.

The Redskins did not score after RG3 had tweaked his knee - could have stuck Cousins in and give RG3 some time to recover, and put RG3 back in. Easy option was to leave a struggling QB in the game - hard option is to go to your backup. If I was Cousins, I'd be fairly annoyed, shows that the coach has absolutely no confidence in him really. RG3 only completed four passes since he injured it at the end of the first quarter

Syferus

The more I think about it the more upsetting it is. Even if the Redskins won Cousins would have to play the next game anyways so it's not like this was the Superbowl or something similar to even Dallas last week. I can't imagine in his heart of hearts that Shanahan was aiming for a ring with a severely gimped RG3 so it makes his inaction all the more glaring.

It's robbing Peter to pay Paul, to use a cliche. Everyone with a love of the game wants to see RG3 be RG3 for many years to come and Shanahan put all that a risk no sooner than his rookie season. One little mistake of judgement can have dire consequences in this sport.

Ares

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

The Redskins did not score after RG3 had tweaked his knee - could have stuck Cousins in and give RG3 some time to recover, and put RG3 back in. Easy option was to leave a struggling QB in the game - hard option is to go to your backup. If I was Cousins, I'd be fairly annoyed, shows that the coach has absolutely no confidence in him really. RG3 only completed four passes since he injured it at the end of the first quarter

They did in fact score after Griffen tweaked his knee. In fact the score happened on the very next play..

Pherekydes

Pherekydes wrote: »

Three record-setting rookie QBs all play next weekend.

I'm going to pick Seattle and 3 home winners to advance.

4-0 for me last weekend. For this w/e I'm going with the same formula: 3 home wins and the Pack the lone road winner.

bruschi

Pherekydes wrote: »

4-0 for me last weekend. For this w/e I'm going with the same formula: 3 home wins and the Pack the lone road winner.

was 4-0 myself, and going the same as yourself again. Broncos, Packers, Falcons and Patriots.