Playoffs 2012

Syferus

TO. wrote: »

At times? Try all the time.



Kap has been with Harbaugh and the 49ers for two seasons. The coaching staff would have know enough about him to make the decision to put him in. His first start with Smith on the sidelines still injured he went 16-23 2 Tds and 0 Ints. He also played well against the Rams finishing out the game for Smith. He was doing everything Smith was doing and then some when you throw in the athletic ability and mobility. Easy decision for the coaches to make in my mind.



Oh please.

All I can say is lol to describe that response from you. Night, fella.

TO.

davyjose wrote: »

I'm not buying that. Smith was having his best season, there was no reason to drop him, but for an excuse to start Harbaugh's guy. I'll stand up and say Kaepernick looks like the better QB, but Harbaugh obviously either a) didn't know that, or b) didn't have the balls to make that call in preseason.

Either way it shines him in a bad light IMO.

But as a coach you are there to make these calls. If you feel after replacing the injured guy that his replacement is doing better or playing better or adds more to the team it gives you that hard decision of saying fook it lets keep the backup in there and give him his day. I guarantee there are very coaches who would see Harbaugh in bad light for keeping Smith on the bench.

TO.

Syferus wrote: »

All I can say is lol to describe that response from you. Night, fella.

Good to see you haven't changed one bit. Good man. The oh please sums you up nicely. There is a reason why its there. "Wont someone please think of the children" is another phrase that comes to mind when you bang on about morality.

TO.

davyjose wrote: »

Why couldn't he see it in pre-season? That's my gripe about the whole thing. People are acting like it was some genius maneuvre by Harbaugh, but really he didn't have a fcuking clue what he was doing for half the season QB-wise.

Well he did but it didn't involve Alex Smith that is for sure. The whole Manning thing proved that. The 49ers then backed themselves into a corner and ended up paying Smith to keep him around.

They got lucky with Kap there is no doubt about it. Turns out they probably could have dumped Smith though and started Kap from day 1 of this season but the 49ers were not going to run that experiment. That would have been foolish.

Also Smith was having a phenomenal season. Who's to say he wouldn't have torn GB apart tonight?

No one knows the answer to that question.

Harbaugh isn't a genius by a long mile but he has every right to make a coaching decision like dropping Smith in favour for Kap. Just because people don't agree with it, doesn't make him a scumbag as many are practically making him out to be. The morality angle is pathetic at best.

davyjose

TO. wrote: »

But as a coach you are there to make these calls. If you feel after replacing the injured guy that his replacement is doing better or playing better or adds more to the team it gives you that hard decision of saying fook it lets keep the backup in there and give him his day. I guarantee there are very coaches who would see Harbaugh in bad light for keeping Smith on the bench.

Maybe so. It's difficult to look at the level Smith was playing at, and say he deserved to lose his place though. Obviously Harbaugh looks like a genius now, but what if they get slaughtered next week. Will all the Smith guys be right? Smith finished with the third highest passer rating in the league. Harbaugh blabbed on about "Hot hands", but Smith's were hotter than anybodys, at the time of his injury.

It's a bit of a potayto/potahto situation, but Smith would be justified in feeling very hard done by, IMO.

Son Of A Vidic

davyjose wrote: »

Why couldn't he see it in pre-season? That's my gripe about the whole thing. People are acting like it was some genius maneuvre by Harbaugh, but really he didn't have a fcuking clue what he was doing for half the season QB-wise.

Also Smith was having a phenomenal season. Who's to say he wouldn't have torn GB apart tonight?

Smith didn't put a foot wrong but I can't speculate about when Harbaugh could or couldn't see what Kapernick brought. Only he can answer that, but Smith got injured and luck/destiny or whatever you call it, then took over.

davyjose

I don't think it was a scumbag, I just think he handled it badly. He clearly wanted his guy -- the guy he drafted -- as starting QB; he clearly wanted Smith out (as you pointed out with the Manning fiasco in the summer). But he didn't have the stones to start him week one.

This wasn't the same as Bledsoe/Brady IMO. Smith was playing serious football and then lost his place because Harbaugh had an excuse to start his guy. That's my take on it.

padraig_f

davyjose wrote: »

Why couldn't he see it in pre-season? That's my gripe about the whole thing. People are acting like it was some genius maneuvre by Harbaugh, but really he didn't have a fcuking clue what he was doing for half the season QB-wise.

Also Smith was having a phenomenal season. Who's to say he wouldn't have torn GB apart tonight?

QB evaluation is notoriously difficult and you never really know until you see them in actual NFL games. The had a good QB in Smith, and they obviously thought his experience gave them the best chance to win (in the short term). They reached the NFC Championship last year with Smith. It was hardly 'not having fcuking a clue' going with Smith. It's easy to make changes when you're rubbish. It's much more difficult to make big changes when you're good. When Kaepernick got thrown into the fray in mid-season, and performed well, it convinced them. But before that, it would've been hard to relegate Smith.

cooker3

davyjose wrote: »

Why couldn't he see it in pre-season? That's my gripe about the whole thing. People are acting like it was some genius maneuvre by Harbaugh, but really he didn't have a fcuking clue what he was doing for half the season QB-wise.

Also Smith was having a phenomenal season. Who's to say he wouldn't have torn GB apart tonight?

Maybe he would have but he wouldn't nay couldn't do it in the way kaeperneck did. His runs absolutely destroyed us. That kind of pace is a extra dimension Smith doesn't have.

ronjo

CoDy1 wrote: »

49ers v Pats SB is 1/10 on Bf
49ers 5/2 to win the SB

no chance its 1/10 for this. I would guess its evens at worst.

counterlock

Just got up and watched the highlights of th GB game (albeit with Deon roaring throughout it). I didn't think anything would shock me after the Baltimore game but Kaepernick looked amazing! If tonight is half as good, we'll be very lucky

frostie500

As far as I'm concerned smith was playing at a superb level and if he had kept his job the miners would be winning games-they are in my view the most complete team in the league-and smith would be productive for them with good stats and turnover free football. He showed the last two years that in the right systems can be a very good qb. Kap on the other hand was an unknown quantity to everyone outside the niners organisation. The coaches and players would've known his talent. There's obviously a certain amount of risk with replacing smith but its a coaches job to make the call and harbaugh went with the qb that gave his team the best chance winning.

Smith has a lot of talent, including mobility and being very smart with the football but with Kap the opposition have to defend against a superb athlete that can break off a scoring run at anytime while also posing a threat with his arm. Overall i think both guys are playing at a very similar level and that if smith were playing that the niners would be just as effective but that Kap gives the opposition more to have to think about and if linebackers have to take a beat to make sure that the qb is running it clearly gives a wr/te a bit more time to get open.

Two years ago smith was going to be out of the nfl but when harbaugh took charge he saw the talent and intelligence that smith has and he made him his starter. He also drafted a young qb in 2nd round. Both players were "his guy" with the coach particularly positive about smith. Even so when manning was released by the colts he kicked the tyres on him because he saw that peyton would offer niners a better chance winning. C hasing manning wasn't about him not wanting smith as a few people said, it was about wanting manning more because even though smith was playing well #18 would have been an obvious upgrade. Who can blame Harbaugh for not chasing him? There's only three or four teams that had options as good as good as a fit Manning and for every other team in the league he represented an upgrade at the position.

I don't understand how people can say how "if Kap was was so good why didn't he win the starting job in preseason?" Is it not possible that a second year qb developed over the course of the season and simply gained experience and maturity as the season progressed and while he may not have been better than smith in week one of training camp that by week 9 or 10 he was the better qb for the niners?Depth charts are fluid and change over the course of the season. If it was a linebacker of a safety or a wide receiver would people be up in arms about a new starter? Of course not but qb is different and people think that by"you shouldn't lose your job because of injury" but one of most important abilities to have is availability.

If smith hadn't suffered concussion he'd still be starting and san Francisco would be wondering if Kap was their qb of the future. As things transpired they got their answer due to injury but to make Harbaugh out as a bad guy over this is crazy. He's hired to win games and for two years that's all that he has done while transforming the niners into on of the best teams in the nfl

Masked Man

Seems like I missed some amazing games. I feel strangely happy that the Ravens won, I don't think I've ever felt this before. Probably a mix of the media writing them off and not wanting to see Manning v Brady. As much as I love that game, that **** can wait til the regular season.

D3PO

Syferus wrote: »

If it was that simply why didn't he just win the job in pre-season? Why did Harbaugh bring Smith back when he could have easily let him go his own way and moved forward with Knaepernick?

The fact is there was no competition or even opportunity for Smith to show he deserved his job after his injury. The unspoken rule in sport is you don't lose your job through injury and when a player isn't even given a chance to show they should have it back you can expect a storm if that position happens to be one as high-profile as the starting quarter-back.

Knaepernick was anointed by Harbaugh and nothing more.

You may be fine with that sort of behaviour but the vast majority of fans of the sport and indeed players are not.

Your talking through your hole again. The coach is paid to make the hard decisions. He did,you get injured and somebody else takes their chance happens all the time in sport contrary to you saying otherwise.

Sure Tom Brady should have lost his job with the Pats since he only got the starting gig due to injury :rolleyes:

I could name lots of other scenarios in lots of sports where this happens.

what sort of behaviour ? Putting your form / best players on the field jesus yes players and fans hate that.

Seriously get a grip. Every post Ive seen from you this week has been drivel. Kick catch interference, Tebow, and now this. Id imagine your racking up the ignore options from fellow boardsies.

eagle eye

In Smith's last full game he went 18 of 19 for 232 yards and 3 tds with an average of 12.2 yards per completion.

In the game he got knocked out of he was 7 of 8 for 1 td an an average of 9 yards per completion.

His QB rating for the season is 104.1 which is third highest among startiong QBs on the season.

I think he was very, very unlucky to lose his job. Kaepernick didn't set the world alight in his early games. He didn't play well in the losses to the Rams and Saints.

Again just realism here. After last night you cannot question Harbaugh's decision but thats in hindsight. At the time and even for the first couple of weeks after it did not look like a smart decision.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

In Smith's last full game he went 18 of 19 for 232 yards and 3 tds with an average of 12.2 yards per completion.

In the game he got knocked out of he was 7 of 8 for 1 td an an average of 9 yards per completion.

His QB rating for the season is 104.1 which is third highest among startiong QBs on the season.

I think he was very, very unlucky to lose his job. Kaepernick didn't set the world alight in his early games. He didn't play well in the losses to the Rams and Saints.

Again just realism here. After last night you cannot question Harbaugh's decision but thats in hindsight. At the time and even for the first couple of weeks after it did not look like a smart decision.

thats debatable. It didnt look a bad decision certainly to me Kaepernick showed that he was good enough to start in the NFL. Smith was bad against the Giants this season too. Kaepernick showed against the Bears what he was capable of and Harbaugh looks like hes made the right call.

Now granted as a Hawaii fan I saw a heck of a lot more of Karpernick than most on here probably did prior to the middle of this season as I followed WAC football closely, so perhaps I had a perspective that others may not have had.

kmart6

Classy from Manning last night, visited Lewis an hour and a half after the game finished to congratulate him!

PerrinV2

I can't find the right picture but Lewis kinda reminds me of Gus Fring from that pic



More from the side than the front

J. Football

PerrinV2 wrote: »

I can't find the right picture but Lewis kinda reminds me of Gus Fring from that pic



More from the side than the front

What's the difference between Ray Lewis and Gus Fring?

One is a cold-blooded murderer who has ruined lives and killed innocent people. The other is Gus Fring.

Masked Man

Saw a murder joke coming. Still laughed.

Johnny_Fontane

Have this feeling that Baltimore might be heading to Houston next week. Nobody is giving them a shot, even though they have the dpoy, an unreal RB, who could tear the pats up and AJ to shred the secondary.

It's been that sort of weekend.

eagle eye

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Have this feeling that Baltimore might be heading to Houston next week. Nobody is giving them a shot, even though they have the dpoy, an unreal RB, who could tear the pats up and AJ to shred the secondary.

It's been that sort of weekend.

The reason people are saying that is because of what the Pats did when they met in the regular season.

I can guarantee you that Belichick/Brady and the Patriots are not taking them lightly. Anybody that knows football isn't either because we all know that the Texans will be looking at this as an opportunity for redemption.

CoDy1

ronjo wrote: »

no chance its 1/10 for this. I would guess its evens at worst.

Apologies, it was quiet late! its 6/4.

davyjose

frostie500 wrote: »

As
I don't understand how people can say how "if Kap was was so good why didn't he win the starting job in preseason?"

Pete Carroll had the strength of his conviction.

eagle eye

D3PO wrote: »

thats debatable. It didnt look a bad decision certainly to me Kaepernick showed that he was good enough to start in the NFL. Smith was bad against the Giants this season too. Kaepernick showed against the Bears what he was capable of and Harbaugh looks like hes made the right call.

Now granted as a Hawaii fan I saw a heck of a lot more of Karpernick than most on here probably did prior to the middle of this season as I followed WAC football closely, so perhaps I had a perspective that others may not have had.

Jeez picking out one bad game for Smith is ridiculous. Eli Manning has had many bad games but he doesn't and shouldn't get dropped. Tom Brady has had stinkers but it doesn't mean he should be dropped.

Then you go and pick out one game of Kaepernick's to show why he should be starting. Kinda says it all, your bias is overtaking your reasoning here.

Again in hindsight now it looks like a very good decision but at the time I think it was fair to criticise the move. And it was fair after 4 games too.

adrian522

I think it looked like the right decision based on Colin's performance against Chicago. I think he earned the starting gig that night.

I don't think Harbaugh handled very well to be honest,trying to keep everyone guessing and talking about having 2 guys with hot hands and all that nonsense, but no doubt he made the correct call based on that game and what we have seen since.

Smith would have been a much safer play, but you wouldn't get anything like the same number of plays down the field, you wouldn't get the same number of 3rd down conversions.

Also since Kaepernick has been playing Crabtree has been looking like a WR drafted 10 overall, whereas with Smith he looked like a nobody.

Also to suggest that because Harbaugh went with Smith in week 1 he should stick with him regardless is ridiculous. Even worse is to suggest Harbaugh lacked the courage of his convictions compared to Pete Carroll is silly, Smith gave the team the best chance to win early in the season and Kaepernick subsequently won the job.

I don't know why some people think QB changes should only be made in the off-season.

SantryRed

eagle eye wrote: »

Again in hindsight now it looks like a very good decision but at the time I think it was fair to criticise the move. And it was fair after 4 games too.

So overall, he did make the right decision. Main point to take.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

Jeez picking out one bad game for Smith is ridiculous. Eli Manning has had many bad games but he doesn't and shouldn't get dropped. Tom Brady has had stinkers but it doesn't mean he should be dropped.

Then you go and pick out one game of Kaepernick's to show why he should be starting. Kinda says it all, your bias is overtaking your reasoning here.

Again in hindsight now it looks like a very good decision but at the time I think it was fair to criticise the move. And it was fair after 4 games too.

i wasnt saying that try reading again. I was replying to a post that said Kapernick was poor against saints and rams jeez two bad games :rolleyes: you canr argue he shouldnt start because he was bad in two games but equally say Smiths poor games shouldnt matter. you cant have your cake and eat it

but if you need to clutch at straws and try and put words in my mouth go right ahead.

it wasnt fair to every criticize the move. Kaepernick has never looked anything short of a starter on the field. Although arguabley hes playing at a much higher level now that he has settled into the team. He showed against the Bears he was a better option at QB. The main characteristic of a great coach versus a good coach is a great coach will make the touch decisions make the changes before there is a dip in the overall teams performance than after it happens.

Nobody isnt saying Smith wasnt playing well nobody is saying the niners may not have wont the Superbowl with him. Thats not the debate the debate is weather he was dropped unfairly or not and the is no doubt he wasnt.

Gutsy QB calls happen all the time. McNaab in Philly, Brady in New England, Warner in St Louis, Farve in Green Bay, Manning in Indy, you could to some degree say Flynn in Seattle.

Its not about the other guy not being good enough its about doing the best thing to move the team forward. Its not contravesial its football simple as

TO.

davyjose wrote: »

Pete Carroll had the strength of his conviction.

Carroll made up his mind when he drafted Wilson. That is the subtle difference between the decisions. Carroll knew he was limited at QB even with the amount of money the seahags threw at Flynn. Flynn has really just become over paid insurance. Had Wilson not worked out Seahags roll with the guy the paid for simple as.

eagle eye

D3PO wrote: »

i wasnt saying that try reading again. I was replying to a post that said Kapernick was poor against saints and rams jeez two bad games :rolleyes: you canr argue he shouldnt start because he was bad in two game sbut equally sy Smiths poor games shouldnt matter. you cant have your cake and eat it

but if you need to clutch at straws and try and put words in my mouth go right ahead.

it wasnt fair to every criticize the move. Kaepernick has never looked anything short of a starter on the field. Although arguabley hes playing at a much higher level now that he has settled into the team

No you don't seem to get the difference. Kaepernick had one really good game and three very average performances in his first four games. Smith had been playing pretty impressively.

I hope that clears things up for you.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

No you don't seem to get the difference. Kaepernick had one really good game and three very average performances in his first four games. Smith had been playing pretty impressively.

I hope that clears things up for you.

I disagree with you. I dont think Kaepernick was average and nor do too many. I saw very little media saying it was a shocking decision. Yes people commented about how it was handled and how it was harsh on Smith (yes it was harsh but thats life) but none of those people see them both every day in training.

I think Harbough is a top notch coach. I thought so i at Stanford and hes revitalised the Niners, Nobody should be criticizing any of his decisions right now he has earned the right to make them without question.

adrian522

eagle eye wrote: »

No you don't seem to get the difference. Kaepernick had one really good game and three very average performances in his first four games. Smith had been playing pretty impressively.

I hope that clears things up for you.

What were these average performances?

First 4 games:

v Bears 243 yards, 2tds 133 passer rating 10 yards rushing
@Saints 231 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, 90.6 passer rating 27 yards rushing (1 TD)
@ Rams 208 yards 83.8 passer rating 84 yards rushing
v Dolphins 185 yards, 100.2 passer rating 53 yards rushing (1 TD)

You must have have fairly lofty expcetations of "Average"

eagle eye

adrian522 wrote: »

What were these average performances?

First 4 games:

v Bears 243 yards, 2tds 133 passer rating 10 yards rushing
@Saints 231 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, 90.6 passer rating 27 yards rushing (1 TD)
@ Rams 208 yards 83.8 passer rating 84 yards rushing
v Dolphins 185 yards, 100.2 passer rating 53 yards rushing (1 TD)

You must have have fairly lofty expcetations of "Average"

Well I didn't say first 4 starts so you can take out the Dolphins. He was poor against the Rams, average against the Saints and in his first game where he came in for Smith he was average at best against the Rams. He was excellent against the Bears as I've already said.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I didn't say first 4 starts so you can take out the Dolphins. He was poor against the Rams, average against the Saints and in his first game where he came in for Smith he was average at best against the Rams. He was excellent against the Bears as I've already said.

most QBs who have been throwing to the practice squad dont ahve a great time coming on in a game. Same as Brady and Maning looked shakey first games back after long injuries you dont just in to an NFL team and tear it up.

Your expectations are unrealistic as to what kind of performance you expect to get thats why you think Smith was hard done by. Those with more realistic expectations of what is above promising for those 4 games realise it was a good call by Harbough.

FFS how was going to the Superdome and doing what he did in his first road start average. Give me a break.

SantryRed

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I didn't say first 4 starts so you can take out the Dolphins. He was poor against the Rams, average against the Saints and in his first game where he came in for Smith he was average at best against the Rams. He was excellent against the Bears as I've already said.

But Kaepernick was the better choice. That has been proven now. He can throw and run, he has added another dimension.

adrian522

Personally I thought he played very well against New Orleans, scored 2 TD's, made good decisions, certainly not average IMO.

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

But Kaepernick was the better choice. That has been proven now. He can throw and run, he has added another dimension.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. If you read my posts you would see that. I'm saying that at the time of the decision and after he had played four games that it was fair to criticise the decision.

In hindsight, especially after last night, its easy to go and laud the decision but what I'm saying is that raving on now that you were right and others were wrong at the time is just stupid. Somebody posted saying all the guys backing Smith were very quiet in this thread. This is what I'm talking about.

adrian522

I posted that because people were saying Harbaugh should have went back to Smith during the seahawks game, which was utterly stupid, saying that Harbaugh wouldn't have the guts to go back to him and basically saying it was the wrong decision based on that one game.

It was the correct decision to make the change, it was the correct decision to stick with Kaep during that Seahawks and it was correct to go with him in the playoffs.

I don't understand how anyone could argue against any of that to be honest.

eagle eye

adrian522 wrote: »

I posted that because people were saying Harbaugh should have went back to Smith during the seahawks game, which was utterly stupid, saying that Harbaugh wouldn't have the guts to go back to him and basically saying it was the wrong decision based on that one game.

It was the correct decision to make the change, it was the correct decision to stick with Kaep during that Seahawks and it was correct to go with him in the playoffs.

I don't understand how anyone could argue against any of that to be honest.

Any reasonable person could have argued after four games that Smith should be starting. I would have agreed with that at the time.

Suggesting that people are very quiet in hindsight is just silly on your part.

I'm not criticising Harbaugh, I'm in full agreement now that he made the right decision. It doesn't mean that suggesting that it was the right move at the time means you know anything as you only had the same limited information as the rest of us.

Paully D

I just can't call this early game, no idea at all how it will go.

eagle eye

I think the Seahawks are the best team on the NFC side. Its going to be hard on the road in a dome but there are just too many question marks about Atlanta in the playoffs to ignore.

If Matty Ice underperforms as has been the norm for him in the playoffs then the Seahawks will win this one comfortably.

Paully D

Brian Billick commentating, good stuff. I enjoy his commentary although I know lots of people don't.

spiralism

Paully D wrote: »

Brian Billick commentating, good stuff. I enjoy his commentary although I know lots of people don't.

I think he's excellent, personally. Far better than half the idiots on CBS like Gumbel, Dierdorf and Fouts

TO.

Paully D wrote: »

Brian Billick commentating, good stuff. I enjoy his commentary although I know lots of people don't.

Love Billick. One of the most knowledgeable men in football.

Anyone

2 Games like last night and I'll be a happy chap.

Justin10

Anyone wrote: »

2 Games like last night and I'll be a happy chap.

One game like last night and il be over the moon.

kmart6

Great play by Sherman, White could come back to it a bit!

Paully D

Fantastic play by Sherman.

adrian522

eagle eye wrote: »

Any reasonable person could have argued after four games that Smith should be starting. I would have agreed with that at the time.

Suggesting that people are very quiet in hindsight is just silly on your part.

I'm not criticising Harbaugh, I'm in full agreement now that he made the right decision. It doesn't mean that suggesting that it was the right move at the time means you know anything as you only had the same limited information as the rest of us.

I would disagree that any reasonable person would argue for Smith after 4 games given how well kaepernick played at that time, just glad Harbaugh didn't come to the same conclusion as all these reasonable people.

As for my post last night I think it was appropriate given some of the nonsense posted the night of the seahawks game and last night should have ended that argument.

Paully D

Good man Ryan.