Illegal immigration

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

I've just deleted a bunch of squabbling, off-topic posts that were veering on personal abuse. Less of the ad hominem attacks and sniping, please.

fianna saor

Nodin wrote: »

So you're quoting material you don't understand from a far right website?

i didnt say i didnt understand it, i merely stated i didnt compose it

Nodin

fianna saor wrote: »

i didnt say i didnt understand it, i merely stated i didnt compose it

Then could you please answer the questions I put to you in relation to the quoted section?

Noel Kinsella

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Egalitarianism.

Egalitarianism spoken like a true "business man"

IrishAm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Egalitarianism.

Do it on your own euro then, not mine.

Anyway, there are 30,000 illegals in Ireland, according to the immigration council of Ireland.

IrishAm

mikemac1 wrote: »

To work out the number of illegals versus legal, well 83,000 visas issued in 2011 and 4,000 removed.

But we will never know many illegals are here, the real figure will be higher




I'm waiting for WileyCoyote to come back and demand even more stats :pac:

Heres some more.

-Of the approximately visa 88,000 applications received, 91 per cent were approved.

The top five nationalities that applied for visas were as follows:
India (16 per cent)
Russia (14 per cent)
China (11 per cent)
Nigeria (eight per cent)
Turkey (five per cent)

Where are these people getting jobs?

- Over 25,000 applications for citizenship were decided on in 2012
There were 38 citizenship ceremonies held in 2012.

- There are approximately 31,400 non-EEA students currently registered for study in Ireland. Of these, 38 per cent are in degree courses, 26 per cent in non-degree courses, 28 per cent in language courses and nine per cent in other study, which includes secondary level education.

The 'English language school' racket used by non EU students to circumvent immigration law continues unabated.

- Deportations totaled almost 2,700 in 2011, of which 2,260 were refusals at various ports of entry.

How can one be deported from a country they have yet to enter - there were 440 actual deportations in 2012.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR13000002

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

The question remains how big is the problem, what is the cost and more importantly is it worth spending even more money to solve a problem that in reality is reducing as can be seen from the number of Asylum applications.

Asylum costs us an arm and a leg and most(90%) are deemed bogus.

The Irish government are spending over a hundred million dollars annually on asylum seekers – including thousands of dollars on diapers for their children.

Irish Central wrote:

A new report states that the $100 million cost of processing their applications includes a payment for diapers.

They are listed as a miscellaneous cost of housing the 5,000-plus people looking for shelter in Ireland according to the Irish Sun newspaper.

That does not include the tens of millions YOU lawyers receive for helping these people to evade deportation and to exhaust the process.

Death and Taxes

IrishAm wrote: »

Asylum costs us an arm and a leg and most(90%) are deemed bogus.

The Irish government are spending over a hundred million dollars annually on asylum seekers – including thousands of dollars on diapers for their children.




That does not include the tens of millions YOU lawyers receive for helping these people to evade deportation and to exhaust the process.

Are you using dollars instead of Euro to purposly inflate the cost? Cheap trick.
And as for the cost of nappies what the hell has that got to do with anything?
Whats with the "YOU lawyers" jibe? Layers do not and cannot behave illegally on behalf of a client, their clients are fully entitled to due process and to fully exhaust that process if they believe they have a case.

buzz_E

The current top 6 registered nationalities which account for over 50% of
all persons registered are India (11%), Brazil (10%), Nigeria (9%), China
(8%), USA (8%) and Philippines (7%).

The most recent census shows that overall Ireland’s non-national population
accounts for 12% of the national population or some 544,000 people. The
breakdown of non-nationals in the State according to Census 2011 shows that the majority are from EU countries.

Visas
Provisional figures indicate that approximately 88,000 entry visa
applications were received in 2012, an increase of 6% on 2011. The approval
rate for entry visa applications was 91%. The top 5 nationalities applying
for visas in 2012 were India (16%), Russia (14%), China (11%), Nigeria (8%)
and Turkey (5%).

Naturalisation/citizenship
The major reforms introduced by the Minister to the processing of
citizenship applications aimed at tackling the backlog of applications have
resulted in a significant increase in the number of cases decided. Over
25,000 applications were decided in 2012 compared to 16,000 in 2011 and
fewer than 8,000 in 2010.
http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2013/01/immigration-in-ireland-2012-in-review/

Death and Taxes

IrishAm wrote: »

Do it on your own euro then, not mine.

Anyway, there are 30,000 illegals in Ireland, according to the immigration council of Ireland.

Im afraid you need to take that up with your local T.D. as it is official Government policy, hence the Department of Justice and Equality.:)

mikemac1

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Whats with the "YOU lawyers" jibe? Layers do not and cannot behave illegally on behalf of a client, their clients are fully entitled to due process and to fully exhaust that process if they believe they have a case.

Pamela Izevbekhai knew how to exhaust the process alright.
Herself and her four sets of lawyers.
Exhaust was the perfect word

And now I'll be quoted and told at least one law film did the case pro bono. But of course as it's high profile and gets their name out there.

It still costs the State money to hold these cases and to hire a barrister to represent them.

Due process is a hearing and an appeal
Not what happened here

Not the typical case I'll be told.
It's the one case of thousands that the media picked up on so that's why it's well known.
That and Residents against Racism pushing it to the media too. Though Pamela's supporters were fair weather friends, they didn't stay until the end.

Only acting on clients instructions?
Both sides need representation and the more cases the more €€€

mikemac1

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Are you using dollars instead of Euro to purposly inflate the cost? Cheap trick.

http://www.irishcentral.com

Maybe the poster was using an American website?

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

Heres some more.

-Of the approximately visa 88,000 applications received, 91 per cent were approved.

The top five nationalities that applied for visas were as follows:
India (16 per cent)
Russia (14 per cent)
China (11 per cent)
Nigeria (eight per cent)
Turkey (five per cent)

Where are these people getting jobs?

- Over 25,000 applications for citizenship were decided on in 2012
There were 38 citizenship ceremonies held in 2012.

- There are approximately 31,400 non-EEA students currently registered for study in Ireland. Of these, 38 per cent are in degree courses, 26 per cent in non-degree courses, 28 per cent in language courses and nine per cent in other study, which includes secondary level education.

The 'English language school' racket used by non EU students to circumvent immigration law continues unabated.

- Deportations totaled almost 2,700 in 2011, of which 2,260 were refusals at various ports of entry.

How can one be deported from a country they have yet to enter - there were 440 actual deportations in 2012.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR13000002

You do know what a visa is don't you, the vast majority of the above visas are guess what Holiday visas, you know when a person like goes to another country for a short break. There are also join spousal visas that's guess what visas for a person to join their husband or wife. There are a vast number of countries that are not visa required and their citizens can enter for 90 days with out a problem for all other countries you need a visa.

In relation to the students, 38% are doing degree courses paying full economic fees many doing medicine paying upto €20,000 a year. While I accept there are problems in that system those problems are being tackled. It is worth remembering that stamp 2 student gives no ongoing rights.

The Citizenship applications are from people who reside here legally for 3 years in the case of spouses of Irish citizens and refugees (considering our low level of acceptance to be declared a refugee is some achieve,enter) and 5 years for other legal residents, who must be in employment and not a drain on the state.

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

You do know what a visa is don't you, the vast majority of the above visas are guess what Holiday visas, you know when a person like goes to another country for a short break. There are also join spousal visas that's guess what visas for a person to join their husband or wife. There are a vast number of countries that are not visa required and their citizens can enter for 90 days with out a problem for all other countries you need a visa.

We waived visa restrictions for the top five due to the Olympics in London.

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

Y......state.

How much do you earn as an immigration lawyer?

I sit here looking at a six figure tax bill..

I am glad you lot are doing well out of me.:mad:

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

Asylum costs us an arm and a leg and most(90%) are deemed bogus.

The Irish government are spending over a hundred million dollars annually on asylum seekers – including thousands of dollars on diapers for their children.




That does not include the tens of millions YOU lawyers receive for helping these people to evade deportation and to exhaust the process.

The Asylum issue is fast disappearing, with a number of years of over 10,000 applications per year, its now down to 950 applications for 2012 and still dropping. To be honest the message got out Ireland is a tough place to get Asylum. Also the introduction of checking all applications has led to detection of Asylum fraud. There was even one month last year that saw only 2 applications, within the next 5 years as a issue it should be gone.

For a lawyer to receive any money in the asylum process there are only 2 ways, the first is in the actual application process for asylum, legal aid is given to the Applicant. When there was too many applications for the legal aid board they used outside lawyers to act, the money was low enough with a total of about 400 euro to write the appeal and appear before the tribunal depending on where travelling from there was upto another 200 for travel costs. Due to the low applications now all cases are handled in house in the legal aid board.

The second way to make money was to take a JR if there was a problem with the decision, a lawyer only gets paid for that if the case wins. We all hear about the case that was lies we don't hear of the huge amount of cases where the Applicant wins because a flawed decision was made.the reason millions are paid in costs is the State makes seriously wrong decisions.

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

How much do you earn as an immigration lawyer?

I sit here looking at a six figure tax bill..

I am glad you lot are doing well out of me.:mad:

I have not earned any money in the last 3 years through the Refugee Legal Aid, as there are very few applications. Last year I ran 1 JR which was successful.

I'm not doing well out of you, I take cases where a serious injustice has been done. If a person is being deported illegally why should they not have the right to legal representation.

BTW well done on the six figure tax bill good to see some people in this country doing well, BTW I pay tax as well. As I'm open about what I do for a living what to you do that produces a six figure tax bill.

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

The Asylum issue is fast disappearing, with a number of years of over 10,000 applications per year, its now down to 950 applications for 2012 and still dropping.

It only took us fifteen years, a recession and 100,000 bogus applicants to release we were being rodgered.

Result, eh?

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

It only took us fifteen years, a recession and 100,000 bogus applicants to release we were being rodgered.

Result, eh?

If the department of Justice had listened to the many interest groups who wanted a fast, efficient system years ago the problem would have been stopped in its tracks.

I have advocated a system that would have had all decisions and appeals and if necessary deportation within 12 months. As we stand there are people here since 2000 and 2002 who are still in the system or have had a deportation order over them for a number of years it's mental all anyone wants is a fair system that deports an illegal quickly and fairly, and allows genuine Asylum seekers to remain.

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

If the department of Justice had listened to the many interest groups who wanted a fast, efficient system years ago the problem would have been stopped in its tracks.

I have advocated a system that would have had all decisions and appeals and if necessary deportation within 12 months. As we stand there are people here since 2000 and 2002 who are still in the system or have had a deportation order over them for a number of years it's mental all anyone wants is a fair system that deports an illegal quickly and fairly, and allows genuine Asylum seekers to remain.

How much did you make from representing the bogus asylum seekers?

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

How much did you make from representing the bogus asylum seekers?

What is your job? What is your income?

BTW my clients from the legal Aid board I had no choice who to take. In relation to JR the fact that the vast majority of the cases I was involved in either settled or we won at hearing shows that the person I represented were not bogus.

So I take grave offence at the implication that as a professional I would knowingly act to perpetrate a fraud.

If you want to debate the issue fine if you want to make it personal that is not cool.

BTW did you pay VAT and excise duty on your Best Buy lap top, just asking.

K-9

IrishAm wrote: »

How much did you make from representing the bogus asylum seekers?

Please stop with the personal questions, the poster does not have to reply with such detailed information.

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

What is your job? What is your income?

BTW my clients from the legal Aid board I had no choice who to take. In relation to JR the fact that the vast majority of the cases I was involved in either settled or we won at hearing shows that the person I represented were not bogus.

So I take grave offence at the implication that as a professional I would knowingly act to perpetrate a fraud.

If you want to debate the issue fine if you want to make it personal that is not cool.

BTW did you pay VAT and excise duty on your Best Buy lap top, just asking.

Catering and hospitality.

And yeah, I declare everything.

Its why my tax bill is so high.

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

Catering and hospitality.

And yeah, I declare everything.

Its why my tax bill is so high.

I notice you did not answer the income question, as I won't. BTW well done for a 20 something to be earning enough to pay at least 100k a year in tax feeding the hungry, ever feel guilty that you are making money from people's hunger. Just asking that all.

K-9

Can we get back to discussing the topic please, off topic posts deleted.

Death and Taxes

bmaxi wrote: »

Indeed. Probably best then, not to jump to conclusions about the status of non-EU immigrants, lots of my daughter-in-law's colleagues and friends are in the same circumstances

Indeed, there is a relatively common perception that most non EU/EEA workers are illegal, when in fact that is not the case.
Thats not to say there in no illegal workers, of course there are but it is not the problem many would have us believe, mainly because they mistake asylum seekers and refugees with illegal workers.

bmaxi

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed bmaxi,I'd be reluctant to use "for most" in assessing the severity of the II's situations.

this is simply due to the physical location of the island of Ireland itself.

If this were the Turkish/Syrian border or indeed any of the African continents land frontiers then my Compassionometer would be calibrated accordingly.

However,most,if not all,of our contentious arrivals,tend to have quite an immigration related rap-sheet throughout the EU.

The INIB reports and assorted media reportage (Fully accept these are NOT acceptable to some posters) tend to point to a large-scale and lucrative business in facilitating mass attempts to secure entry into Ireland.

Ms Izevbekhai's eventually well reported criminality,was not a solo-run by a poor oppressed African woman,instead whilst a high profile section of Irelands Illuminati beat upon their chests in self chastisment,the serious questions concerning the Izevbekhai's ( Not forgetting Tony,the husband) facilitators and asssorted other business associates were left unasked and unanswered....until we can find another Star performer to fill the column inches.

This country's current asylum and immigration system is well fit-for-purpose,and deserves far more support in it's endeavours than the constant sniping largely against the Gardai,who with scant resources,attempt to remain proffessional and compassionate with those who seek to break,not only the law,but the very basis of the system itself.

Firstly, don't confuse me with a bleeding heart liberal, nothing could be further from the truth. I'm well aware there are people who have been coached on how to play the system here and it's up to the authorities to counter this, which, to date, they've failed to do but as always with the Public Service, it's not their money. These, however, are not those illegals alluded to in the OP, who come here and are exploited in menial jobs for subsistence wages. I think it's appalling that traffickers earn huge money on the backs of these peoples' misery but I think we should have compassion for the people themselves.

FTA69

bmaxi wrote: »

These, however, are not those illegals alluded to in the OP, who come here and are exploited in menial jobs for subsistence wages. I think it's appalling that traffickers earn huge money on the backs of these peoples' misery but I think we should have compassion for the people themselves.

I'm not a fan of this term "illegal", it's not the correct word to use about a human being in my opinion, least of all someone like those you mentioned above who are often breaking their backs in the worst of jobs and often in hock to those who brought them here. It also annoys me how you always hear about "illegal workers" but never illegal bosses or illegal profit. The money that these people produce for their employers is never deemed illegal, nor are the wages they place in banks.

JustinDee

Oh pass the bucket...

Illegal means exactly that: someone who enters and resides in a country illegally.
The problem is people mixing up 'illegal immigrant' and 'immigrant' and too often deliberately so.

AlekSmart

FTA69 wrote: »

It also annoys me how you always hear about "illegal workers" but never illegal bosses or illegal profit. The money that these people produce for their employers is never deemed illegal, nor are the wages they place in banks.

The "Illegal Bosses" tend to be from the same ethnic groupings as the "Illegals" themselves they employ and most certainly do attract official attention.

The problem is resources,which tend to be well below minimum requirements for policing the system.

The UK is equally beset with this problem,which we tend occupy the moral high-ground on,pointing quivering fingers at the Empire etc etc...

kabakuyu

link here to latest data on asylum seekers as reported in Irish Independent. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/applications-for-asylum-fall-11000-since-2002-peak-3341593.html

Noel Kinsella

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm not a fan of this term "illegal", it's not the correct word to use about a human being in my opinion, least of all someone like those you mentioned above who are often breaking their backs in the worst of jobs and often in hock to those who brought them here. It also annoys me how you always hear about "illegal workers" but never illegal bosses or illegal profit. The money that these people produce for their employers is never deemed illegal, nor are the wages they place in banks.

If they are not legally here then the correct word to use illegal no ? What word would you like us to use ?

Noel Kinsella

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Indeed, there is a relatively common perception that most non EU/EEA workers are illegal, when in fact that is not the case.
Thats not to say there in no illegal workers, of course there are but it is not the problem many would have us believe, mainly because they mistake asylum seekers and refugees with illegal workers.

Quote "Indeed, there is a relatively common perception that most non EU/EEA workers are illegal, when in fact that is not the case."
Unquote.
Do you have any facts and figures to back up your claims ? If not I will presume you are just on one of your "pro refuge, immigrant and basically pro anything that is NOT a hard working Irish person" rants again.

Death and Taxes

RADIUS wrote: »

Who says they have to get jobs? They could be dependent family members of Irish or EU citizens and have every right to be here.

They could be lots of things, holidaymakers, non EU employees of non EU companies (Intel,Google,Paypal,Microsoft,Ebay etc), they could be family members of naturized Irish citizens visting family for holidays.
Of course some people would like us to believe that they are all forigen scammers here to work illegally and get SW!

RADIUS

IrishAm wrote: »

Heres some more.

-Of the approximately visa 88,000 applications received, 91 per cent were approved.

The top five nationalities that applied for visas were as follows:
India (16 per cent)
Russia (14 per cent)
China (11 per cent)
Nigeria (eight per cent)
Turkey (five per cent)

Where are these people getting jobs?

Who says they have to get jobs? They could be dependent family members of Irish or EU citizens and have every right to be here. What about holiday makers? Business travel for conferences and training etc?

Asylum seekers and Visa applicants are two different things by the way.

FTA69

AlekSmart wrote: »

The "Illegal Bosses" tend to be from the same ethnic groupings as the "Illegals" themselves they employ and most certainly do attract official attention.

Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. I worked for a large Irish construction company in London for years and there were loads of undocumented workers employed there from Eastern Europe and Africa. Similarly many of the large scale cleaning companies working in the city employ people from places like Latin America and Africa with no work permits. I don't like the term "illegal" because it lumps the most exploited workers in society in with rapists and muggers, despite the fact that 1) the overwhelming majority of them simply seek a better life and 2) they work hard and produce wealth (money which is never deemed "illegal" and will still be accepted by all.)

The Corinthian

What an odd thread. I say odd because the whole thing seems to be based upon lack of knowledge, compounded with presumption.

To begin with, and has been pointed out, being non-EU (or non-EEA), non-naturalised, working in a low-skills job and outside education does not imply that the person is illegal. They could be either married to an Irish citizen or a valid resident, which entitles one to a work and residency visa.

High-skilled jobs will also include those who have skills not easily (or in some cases at all) found amongst Irish citizens. And there's no shortage of skills shortage in Ireland thanks to the Celtic Tiger, which meant many didn't have to bother to go through (or finish) further education to get a job.

Then there are many who are technically EU citizens. Do you know how many Argentinians have Italian passports there are? Or South Africans with British passports? Or Moldavians with Romanian passports? Not to mention how many otherwise non-EU/EEA citizens have Irish passports thanks to our practice of giving one to anyone who had a grandparent who was born in Ballygospittlebackwards? The fruit of Ireland's own immigrants is coming home to roost.

Illegal immigration tends to fall into those who abuse the visa system. Practically no one enters Ireland illegally as we check documents. What can happen is they enter on a holiday or study visa and remain working clandestinely, after this runs out. Bogus asylum seekers are another example of this. These are the one's who are illegal.

Are there illegal immigrants still in Ireland, undoubtedly, but their numbers have plummeted. Asylum cases, the majority of which were in reality economic migrants attempting to abuse the system, are 8% of what they were a decade ago. Enrolment in 'language schools' has plummeted. Why? Because if you're an economic migrant; be it on a student, holiday or asylum visa, there are far better places to go than Ireland.

After all, why would an employer hire someone illegal, when there are so many legal candidates looking for work? Not worth the risk or headaches.

What remains are largely the 'self-employed' illegals, who I am told tend to be involved in criminal activities. However, to consider their number to be huge, let alone that they're 'taking Irish jobs' would be a gross exaggeration.

Illegal or abusive immigration is a fraction of what it was and this thread seems to be based upon simplistic and flawed understanding of what an illegal immigrant is.

FTA69

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

If not I will presume you are just on one of your "pro refuge, immigrant and basically pro anything that is NOT a hard working Irish person" rants again.

Or maybe he/she just cares about their fellow human beings who are being worked to the bone for peanuts by unscrupolous employers. And you accusing anyone of rants is hilarious considering on a similar thread you were spouting stories of asylum seekers getting free cars and other assorted nonsense.

Death and Taxes

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

If they are not legally here then the correct word to use illegal no ? What word would you like us to use ?

A person can be illegal, an act is illegal !
How about we use the term the Irish Government use when talking about our immigrants in the USA who have no permission to be there and be working there?
The term used is Undocumented residents/ workers.

The Corinthian

WileyCoyote wrote: »

How about we use the term the Irish Government use when talking about our immigrants in the USA who have no permission to be there and be working there?

It reminds me of a immigration / "they're taking our jobs and wimin" discussion a few years back. One of the most militant anti-immigrant posters in the thread simultaneously was posting on another board that he was in the process of emigrating to Australia as there was plenty of work there.

Kinda pulled the moral high-ground rug from under him.

RandomName2

The Corinthian wrote: »

or a valid resident, which entitles one to a work and residency visa.

Would you be able to elaborate upon this? I mean visas that are neither work nor holiday based?

The Corinthian wrote: »

After all, why would an employer hire someone illegal, when there are so many legal candidates looking for work? Not worth the risk or headaches.

Surely there would be perks to go along with it: such as being able to pay less than minimum wage and also avoid employee insurance? The whole thing would presumably be off-the-books.

The Corinthian

RandomName2 wrote: »

Would you be able to elaborate upon this? I mean visas that are neither work nor holiday based?

Actually that didn't make sense to me either until I read the full sentence: "They could be either married to an Irish citizen or a valid resident, which entitles one to a work and residency visa."

That means that they're married to a valid resident (not a legal term), other than an Irish citizen - for example the spouse of an EU citizen.

Surely there would be perks to go along with it: such as being able to pay less than minimum wage and also avoid employee insurance? The whole thing would presumably be off-the-books.

Perhaps so at the lowest end of the market - essentially slave labour. Thing is that it's so easy to get round minimum wages (unpaid or documented overtime) and easy to find cheap labour (like interns) that I really do think the market for illegal immigrant labour is probably really, really small.

Just an opinion though, I'll admit that.

bmaxi

The Corinthian wrote: »

Perhaps so at the lowest end of the market - essentially slave labour. Thing is that it's so easy to get round minimum wages (unpaid or documented overtime) and easy to find cheap labour (like interns) that I really do think the market for illegal immigrant labour is probably really, really small.

Just an opinion though, I'll admit that.

I have it, admittedly anecdotally, that the black economy is alive and well and thriving in the catering and domestic service industries.

ResearchWill

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually that didn't make sense to me either until I read the full sentence: "They could be either married to an Irish citizen or a valid resident, which entitles one to a work and residency visa."

That means that they're married to a valid resident (not a legal term), other than an Irish citizen - for example the spouse of an EU citizen.

Perhaps so at the lowest end of the market - essentially slave labour. Thing is that it's so easy to get round minimum wages (unpaid or documented overtime) and easy to find cheap labour (like interns) that I really do think the market for illegal immigrant labour is probably really, really small.

Just an opinion though, I'll admit that.

I think people misunderstand what a visa is, a visa is permission for a visa required national to enter the country. It can be for work, holiday transit, it can be short term or long term. Long term visas are given to spouses of Irish citizens or partners or persons with permission to remain or children etc..

On the other hand to then stay in the country even non visa required nationals will require a stamp in their passports (does not apply to EU citizens)

Stamp 0 limited condition
Stamp 1 work permit permissions can be in country till stamp runs out but requires a work permit to work
Stamp 2 Student permission
Stamp 3 Family member visa no right to work
Stamp 4 no real restrictions valid for specific time can be renewed
Stamp 5 no conditions as to time given after 8 years
Stamp 6 given to dual nationality a person who has the right to Irish citizenship

So just because a visa is granted it is not in any way an indication of a right to reside or work.

Info here http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000207

RandomName2

Do you know whether, if an individual is residing in Ireland outside the terms of their visa, will that time still count in terms of eligibility for naturalisation?

Duzzer

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Indeed, there is a relatively common perception that most non EU/EEA workers are illegal, when in fact that is not the case.
Thats not to say there in no illegal workers, of course there are but it is not the problem many would have us believe, mainly because they mistake asylum seekers and refugees with illegal workers.

Who is mistaking asylum seekers and refugees for illegal workers?

Mena

RandomName2 wrote: »

Do you know whether, if an individual is residing in Ireland outside the terms of their visa, will that time still count in terms of eligibility for naturalisation?

No it won't.

ResearchWill

RandomName2 wrote: »

Do you know whether, if an individual is residing in Ireland outside the terms of their visa, will that time still count in terms of eligibility for naturalisation?

Simple answer no, the only time that counts are stamp 1,3 or 4 student stamp 2 does not count towards either long term residency or naturalisation. You can be here 20 years illegally a deportation letter can still issue.

Of course stamp 5 counts towards naturalisation, but as a person requires more time to get stamp 5 then I assume there is a reason they did not want naturalisation. Stamp 6 is as right entitled to a Irish passport, example is say a dual national where the other country does not allow two passports example a father Chinese and mother Irish child, born in china, china will not allow a citizen to hold two passports, so the parents could get stamp 6 put in passport.

Of course as EU nationals do not need a stamp 5 years residency alone counts to naturalisation.

IrishAm

THE MIGRANT RIGHTS Centre Ireland (MRCI) believes the St Patrick’s Day celebrations this weekend offer an opportunity to highlight the plight of an estimated 30,000 undocumented people in Ireland.


http://www.thejournal.ie/undocumented-in-ireland-will-celebrate-st-patricks-day-in-the-shadows-385862-Mar2012/

Now here is the amusing part.

“I have three children to support and I work really hard to provide an education for them. Yet I am in limbo,” Elisia Fuentes, who is originally from the Philippines and came to Ireland in 2007, said.
Speaking for the Justice for the Undocumented Campaign she called on the government to provide a “fair and pragmatic solution” by introducing a regularisation scheme that would consider the “rights and responsibilities of undocumented people living here.”


A quick google of yer wans name and the GNIB would be able to find out where she lives and what company she works for.

Yet, she remains. Do they even give a f*ck?

AlekSmart

IrishAm wrote: »

THE MIGRANT RIGHTS Centre Ireland (MRCI) believes the St Patrick’s Day celebrations this weekend offer an opportunity to highlight the plight of an estimated 30,000 undocumented people in Ireland.


http://www.thejournal.ie/undocumented-in-ireland-will-celebrate-st-patricks-day-in-the-shadows-385862-Mar2012/

Now here is the amusing part.

“I have three children to support and I work really hard to provide an education for them. Yet I am in limbo,” Elisia Fuentes, who is originally from the Philippines and came to Ireland in 2007, said.
Speaking for the Justice for the Undocumented Campaign she called on the government to provide a “fair and pragmatic solution” by introducing a regularisation scheme that would consider the “rights and responsibilities of undocumented people living here.”


A quick google of yer wans name and the GNIB would be able to find out where she lives and what company she works for.

Yet, she remains. Do they even give a f*ck?

"Fair and Pragmatic" for whom I wonder..?

As the long running PamIvevbekhai production proved,the Irish State's long running lackadaisical attitude to the preservation of it's own integrity has left it wide open to snake-oil and coloured-smoke salesmen from the four-corners.

The Irish State appears to major in "regularizing" situations which it failed to leglislate for,almost like the issuing of Full Driving Licences to provisional licence holders in order to reduce the backlog....:rolleyes: