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US should agree to Iran's right to Peaceful Nuke Tech in 2013 and give them the 20% U
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31-12-2012 6:19pm#1It's Not in Iran's Interest to Build a Nuclear Bomb
Please support you points I'm sick of the 'Iran is evil and is going for the bomb' crap you hear so often.
Firstly the contents of this short piece by Amanpour greatly effected my position on the Iran nuke thing. I suggest you watch it before launching into an Iran bashing session.
If the P5+1 agree to Iran's NPT right to peaceful nuke tech in 2013 AND offer Iran the few rods they need for their medical isotope producing research reactor which produces isotopes for about 1 million cancer patients then Iran will agree NOT to enrich to 20% and agree to all safeguard measures similar to all other NPT members.
Not only that but will agree to what is known as 'the additional protocols' and in fact beyond these 'additional protocol' to absolutely assure the IAEA and the P5+1 that Iran is not going for a breakout Nuke Weapon capability... which is of course the main stated worry of all interested nations.
I personally believe that Iran is not currently on a trajectory towards nuclear weapons. I think the evidence is overwhelming for this position. Why would they offer to agree to IAEA 'Safeguard' and 'Additional Protocols' allowing the IAEA access to 'everything' IF the international community agrees to its NPT membership and privileges i.e. the full right to develop peaceful nuke tech and produce medical isotopes in their research reactor EVEN TO THE POINT of accepting foreign RODS in order to absolutely assure the international community that Iran is never capable of a breakout nuke program i.e. enriching from 20-90% if it so decided. Why would they offer this on a plate?
There was definitely a time when there was some evidence for Iran's intention to research 'towards' a potential nuke weapon program - in the past, many years ago... but those efforts have stopped and all recent signs and indicators coming from Iran points towards 'not going for the bomb' at all. They want to be treated as equals among other NPT nations and they want to do a comprehensive deal with the IAEA and P5+1 which will assure THEM of the right to do nuke research as they want for medical isotopes and have the IAEA inspect everything as they please IF everyone agrees to respect Iran's right to develop nuke technology to the fullest capacity.
Sanctions and assassinations and cyber warfare needs to stop. There is no trust and rightfully so with the way the West has treated Iran in this situation. People need to sit down and start from a level playing field and hard bargain for massive IAEA access to ALL SITES in return for Iran's agreement not to go to 20% EVER... and simply provide them with the rods they need for the Tehran research reactor. Put in place a system which makes it impossible to divert enrichment towards a breakout program... just like other NPT members with 'Safeguard'.
The whole thing has always been political and about other issues than Nuke tech.. as we all know. The IAEA was compromised and became a political tool and that needs to be rectified and adjusted. The important thing here is for Iran to NOT GET TO AN EASY BREAKOUT NUKE WEAPON CAPABILITY POINT and that can be achieved.
Iranian Ambassador: It's Not in Iran's Interest to Build a Nuclear Bomb
Seyed Hossein Mousavian: IAEA has a political agenda that goes beyond its mandate to inspect
Well what do yee think? Is there a good reason NOT to sit down and do a deal which safeguards Iran's breakout capability when they have offered so much including the 'additional Protocols'? Should the cyber warfare and assassinations and sanctions stop or not? At the end of the day we want the IAEA to have access to everything - Iran has offered a path to that access so why is the US not taking that path? The IAEA have carried out 4000 inspections in the last 10 years.
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From:
http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/ten-reasons-iran-doesnt-want-the-bomb-7802
Why Iran is not after a nuclear bomb:
1. Religious Obligations: Besides an international commitment to Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), Iran has religious obligations against nuclear weapons. Based on the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei’s religious edict or fatwa, the use of nuclear weapons and all other types of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) is forbidden or haram—constituting a sin, while being useless, costly, harmful and a serious threat to humanity. Iran’s authorities were informed about this religious view in 1995, eight years prior to Iran’s enrichment program became known to the West. Leaving no room for discrepancy, all Muslim Shia grand ayatollahs have issued the same religious fatwa.
Iran’s stance against weapons of mass destruction, which is far from new, has been put to the test. During the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam Hussein ordered chemical weapons to be used against Iran in the 1980s, resulting in 100,000 Iranian soldiers and civilians being killed or injured. Iran did not retaliate in kind primarily because Imam Ruhollah Khomeini was against the use of weapons of mass destruction based on religious beliefs.
2. No Long-Term Advantage: Based on Iranian assessments, the possession of nuclear weapons would provide only a short-term regional advantage that would turn into a longer-term vulnerability. It would trigger a regional nuclear arms race, bringing Egypt, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia into the fold sooner or later.
3. Technology Choices: The technical configurations Iran has chosen for its nuclear program demonstrate a preference for a robust enrichment capability rather than for a rapid nuclear weapons breakout capability. Iran’s development program is focused on next-generation nuclear technologies, rather than mass production or maximum installation of centrifuges. There are more advantageous configurations Iran could implement if it was determined to acquire weapons in the near term.
Iran has shown no urgency to advance its nuclear dual-use efforts. Even the activities detailed in the November 2011 International Atomic Energy Agency report are not directed at any specific nuclear weaponization. According to Robert Kelly, an American top nuclear expert and the former International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspector, the report was misleading and aimed to bolster hardliners “by taking information and feeding it as raw meat to people who want to move forward with war.”
4. Isolation: Iran recognizes that by becoming a nuclear weapons state, it will compel Russia and China to join the United States and implement devastating sanctions that would paralyze the Iranian economy.
Iran recognizes that becoming a nuclear weapons state would give the Israelis ample ammunition to rally the United States and the international community on a perceived existential threat to its existence for creating another war in the Middle East.
5. Aspirations: Iran’s ultimate strategy is to be a modern nation, fully capable of competing with the West in terms of advanced technologies. The majority of Iran’s prominent politicians believe that possessing nuclear weapons would be an obstacle in the long-term for Iran’s access to vast technological cooperation with developed countries. They do not want to see Iran come under the kind of extreme international isolation levied against North Korea.
6. Goodwill: During negotiations from 2003 to 2005, with Iran and France, Germany, and the UK (the EU-3), Iran submitted proposals which included a declaration to cap enrichment at 5 percent; to export all low-enriched uranium or fabricate it into fuel rods; to commit to an additional protocol to its IAEA safeguards agreement and subsidiary arrangements to the agreement, which would provide maximum transparency; to allow the IAEA to make snap inspections of undeclared facilities; and to ship its enriched uranium to another country for fabrication into fuel rods for Tehran Research Reactor. Similarly, Iran welcomed the Russian step-by-step proposal in the summer of 2011, which addressed all the West’s concerns about Iran’s nuclear activities.
These offers were intended to ensure that no enriched uranium would be diverted to a nuclear weapons program in the future. That’s why the Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman recently said: “Iran, in order to prove its goodwill, has even gone beyond the commitments enumerated in the agency’s regulations.” But the United States and EU still rejected the offer.
7. No Stockpile: Accusations levied against Iran for stockpiling enriched uranium to build nuclear weapon are misleading, since Iran requires 27 tons of uranium enriched at 3.5 percent level annually to provide fuel for its only nuclear power plant in Bushehr. Up to now, Iran has produced about 7 tons and needs an additional 20 tons.
8. Enrichment Offers: The West’s biggest concern and therefore highest priority in nuclear talks have centered on Iran’s 20 percent enriched uranium. First in February 2010 and for the second time in September 2011, Iran proposed to stop its 20 percent enrichment in return for fuel rods—and once again the West declined. At a meeting between EU Foreign Policy Chief Catherine Ashton and Iran’s leading nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili on September 19, Iran once again offered to suspend its enrichment of uranium to 20 percent, provided proportionate reciprocation would be taken by P5+1. "If they give us the 20 percent [enriched] fuel, we will immediately halt 20 percent [enrichment]," Ahmadinejad said in an interview with Iranian state-run television. But Europe responded to his goodwill by placing more sanctions.
9. Deterrence: A major accusation levied against Iran is that once it acquires nuclear weapons, it will use it against the United States and Israel. This makes no rational sense, since any provocation by Iran against two states that possess thousands and hundreds of nuclear weapons respectively would result in Iran’s total annihilation. Iran has publically acknowledged this fact.
10. Forget Regime Change: The view of some U.S. politicians is that Iran’s motive for seeking nuclear weapons is nuclear deterrence—to ensure Washington would not attack it at will, instigate regime change or reach its objectives. If this concern is accurate, then Iran’s nuclear weapons could be used to prevent war—a positive outcome. But this concern relies on the wrong premise, as Iran has not aimed to acquire nuclear weapons in the face of a concerted effort by the United States and the West to engineer regime change in Tehran, including the use of war. During eight years of Iraqi aggression against Iran, the United States and the West did their utmost to support the aggressor and yet failed to bring defeat to Iran. Paradoxically for some, Iran without nuclear weapons has become more powerful year after year in the past 34 years, stymying Western efforts to bring about the collapse of the regime. Meanwhile, the U.S. and Israeli positions in the region have declined despite the thousands of nuclear weapons between them.3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP11iU6cPfQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP2WBP5Yv6sComments
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Yes they are havin a rough time.. but not the fat cats... the people on the street.... that serves which purpose exactly? These people are proud Iranians and although they have major grievances with their leadership (the urban young educated class) they are more pissed at the Intl bullying that is going on which makes their everyday stuff more expensive... saying that the average Iranian does not HATE American people... they just hate the games that are going on, on all sides involved. They also believe strongly that Iran should have the right to develop peaceful nuclear tech to the utmost of its ability, as clearly do I.
Clairefontaine Iran is so far from having usable nuclear weapons (let alone even wanting one) its laughable and the idea of them actually firing one at somebody for some reason for just about any reason you can cite is completely irrational and makes no sense at all on any level. This is the problem, people have a totally fuked up view of what's been going on and what hasn't... because of the media basically who are just so bad at reporting on this whole thing they just help make it worse.... which it doesn't need coz it's already fuked enough up as it is haha
consider this Daily Mail crap:
"Scientists in Iran could be producing a nuclear weapon three times as powerful as that which destroyed Hiroshima during the Second World War, according to a leaked diagram. "
Good vintage fear mongering grab your attention crap which means absolutely nothing, nothing at all. Yes the tests happened at Parchin... but the facility was there already and the tests were extremely preliminary although that shouldn't preclude it from attention by the IAEA and Iran will have to agree to more leeway in that space, which is actually the crux of the current impasse. However, those suggested tests happened in a different period. This is important because there has been no further research towards any explosive or military ends since that time and even then it was extremely exploratory in nature... I am not saying a previous Iran did not go down certain avenues towards researching its potential to develop a nuclear weapons program at some point in the future but that is not the Iran experts have agreed on which we see before us now.... whether that makes you forever distrust them on the entire issue is up to you and I would recommend a lot more research on your part to arrive at that pre-emptive position.
Now I could say Claire go watch this piece by Christian Amanpour... difference being that this piece is irrefutable and I challenge anyone to attempt to knock it down.
You have to have an open and critical mind with these things... hell I've watched hate filled prejudiced AEI speeches and read reports from Hawks like Elliot Abrams all along the way because I'm open to all the sh1t on both sides.... and I may yet change my position IF somebody can refute the contents of, for instance this Amanpour piece... which sums up what the experts are saying ... at this juncture. Things change, people learn more... and prejudices evaporate in the face of facts and raitonality and the barking and rhetoric stops and the business of boring day to day bureaucratic IAEA deal making takes over and impasses become routes to long term deals... which is a lot better than Israel launching a limited vicious air raid on some Iranian nuke cites which sets off an unpredictable sequence of events which could lead literally anywhere right up to massive regional war. And that is what this whole thing is about.... getting to the facts.... calm heads and rational approached and no prejudice... and dealing with each other like equals... rational nations with interests ready to come to a compromise which is the only way this world has stayed away from regional war in the last 68 years. Watch the piece... I bet Johnny hasn't yet ; )
and Johnny if you got some good stuff for me to read or watch bring it on... I may be Iran-bashing by the next day if it makes any sense ; )
I'm just playin but ya gotta be open minded.... it IS more fun to hate and bash and accuse and hold stubborn positions and distrust the 'bad guy' forever but this situation is more complex and subtle than that. They ain't after nuclear weapons.
They'll write a text book on it I bet and teach it as part of Game Theory 101 in Stanford... a pseudo Cuban Missile Crisis of our time.0 -
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The US regularly characterizes Iran as a despotic regime which carries out human rights abuses, limits freedom of speech and jails dissidents... and is an Islamist quasi democracy where one unelected 'Supreme Leader' has the final say in all things military.. and therefore is not 'allowed' to develop Nuclear Energy for fears it will develop nuclear weapons.
Consider the hypocrisy in this:
U.S. Nuclear Marketers Visited Saudi Arabia, As Trade Talks Under Way
WASHINGTON -- A U.S. nuclear industry delegation traveled to Saudi Arabia in November, as Washington and Riyadh launched negotiations toward sealing a controversial atomic trade agreement, according to government and business officials.
An industry official on Wednesday described the Saudi trade mission as “a first-of-a-kind, industry-led” trip. It follows a 2012 announcement by the Persian Gulf nation that it intends to build 16 reactors by 2030.
“On the nuclear side, that represents an investment of approximately $112 billion that they’re planning to make to bring those plants to reality,” the energy marketing representative said at a Nuclear Energy Institute forum on atomic fuel.
Through a spokesman, the industry official requested anonymity in order to offer candid comments about the trade mission at the Wednesday symposium. The Nuclear Energy Institute is the U.S. atomic industry’s lobbying arm and was a “supporting partner” for the business delegation’s visit, the official said.
Organized by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and U.S.-Saudi Arabian Business Council, the visit reportedly included a delegation representing 10 nuclear companies and 10 renewable-energy firms. Exelon Generation and SunPower led the atomic and solar delegations, respectively, according to information the chamber posted online.
The Mideast meetings took place two months before a U.S. State Department representative publicly acknowledged, early this year, that Saudi Arabia is among several nations with which “we are negotiating [nuclear trade] agreements.” Others include Jordan, Taiwan, South Korea and Vietnam............
much more here:
http://www.nti.rsvp1.com/gsn/article/us-nuclear-marketers-visited-saudi-arabia-trade-talks-under-way/?mgh=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nti.org&mgf=1
Saudi Arabia - 17 Reasons the US is giving them a big load of Nuclear Technology! See if you can pick the most influential one? I'll give ya a clue... OIL.- Saudi Arabia remains one of the very few countries in the world not to accept the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
- It is the only country in the world where women are not allowed to drive - That is simply too mental to address intelligently.
- Saudi Arabia remains the only Arab nation where no national elections have ever taken place, since its creation - clearly a champion of US values or more correctly an absolute polar opposite to everything the US says it stands for in every single solitary way.
- No political parties or national elections are permitted - nice one that's also very American... give them loads of nuclear material so
- The Saudi government is the seventh most authoritarian regime in the world! according to the Economists Democracy Index 2010. Well done Saudi Arabia here's a boatload of nuclear technology! Look it up - see who's company it enjoys at the top of that prestigious VIP of a$$holes list. 'cough'...jaysus nearly choked on some fine hypocrisy there!
- Beheadings??? (in 2012!!!!!!! Christ cutting off a man's head while he's alive in an age of the Internet... that sounds just like the type of country to give nuclear technology to hand over fist!!)
- Stoning, amputation and lashing - fine American traditions enjoyed by the Saudi's on a daily basis in a square near you.
- Gay rights are not recognized. Homosexual acts are punishable by flogging or death. Well I suppose some republicans can at least identify so... a joke haha hilarious. Give them 18 nuclear power plants immediately.
- Retaliatory punishments, or Qisas, are practiced: for instance, an eye can be surgically removed at the insistence of a victim who lost his own eye. WOW! Congratulations Saudi Arabia you have won a sh1tload of nuclear material!
- There has been an intense debate over whether Saudi aid and Wahhabism has fomented extremism in recipient countries.[138] The two main allegations are that, by its nature, Wahhabism encourages intolerance and promotes terrorism.[139] Former CIA director James Woolsey described it as "the soil in which Al-Qaeda and its sister terrorist organizations are flourishing." - that's from the fuking former CIA Cirector! AND I LOVE THIS NEXT ONE....
- Osama bin Laden and fifteen out of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.[148] According to the U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups... Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide." Well why didn't ya say so: Here's everything you'll need to develop nuclear weapons.
- Saudi Arabia officially has about 260 billion barrels of oil reserves, comprising about one-fifth of the world's proven total petroleum reserves.
- 90% of of the 25 million Saudi population practice a type of Sunni Islam known as Wahhabiism which is commonly described as the most intolerant or ultra-conservative form of Islam...which is, as we know just LOVED by the US administration.. and absolutely represents people of totally similar American values - people you just want to throw 10's of billion of dollars of nuclear technology at and see what happens. Awesome.
- No faith other than Islam is permitted to be practiced. Even private prayer services are forbidden in practice and the Saudi religious police reportedly regularly search the homes of Christians. Foreign workers have to observe Ramadan but are not allowed to celebrate Christmas or Easter.
- Conversion by Muslims to another religion carries the death penalty. That's fair I suppose.
- There are no organizations such as political parties or labor unions to provide public forums.
- A woman can only obtain a divorce with the consent of her husband or judicially if her husband has harmed her.
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North Korea genuinely deserves more attention than Iran at this point vis a vis nuclear weapons don't ya think? If they weren't so bleeding mental (the leadership that is) and their economy so catastrophic and their strategic location so important to China - they'd be gettin the crap bombed out of them so fast let's be honest.
The CFR says,
Obama said that while it would take “over a year or so for Iran to actually develop a nuclear weapon,”
and they're right alright - it WOULD take more than a year IF THEY WERE BUILDING A NUCLEAR FECKIN WEAPON !! BUT THEY'RE NOT, NOT NOW, NOT SOON..
but never say never right? ; ) quick - invade them immediately !!!!
the main thing is there are quality world leaders working on the issue with level heads... and eh.... red markers ...or something
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