Haven't we been here before ? Well let's do it better this time !

blockic

Gavlor wrote: »

Pm, you mightn't like to hear this but maybe marathon running just isn't for you.

Having followed your posts over the past year, I feel you would be better off concentrating on shorter distances for a year or two and build up a solid base whilst dropping a bit of weight.

It would help you enjoy running again and would more than likely mean that if you decide on a marathon in the future you would be in a much better position to commit both physically and mentally.

To be fair he has set a 10km race in August as his main goal and is not thinking about a marathon until this hurdle is accomplished. A sensible decision.

Fair play for getting back into it PM as you must be up the walls these days. As others have said, ignore pace for the moment just focus on getting out consistently 2 or 3 times a week and building up a base. Wouldn't worry about the walking either this will all come together in time.

blockic

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Marathon is off the agenda for this year. 10k race in August is the first target now and the race series 10k later in year is main one for the year. My PB is 1 hr 4 min (am a plodder even when capable of longer distances) so it's not a big stretch to aim to get back fit and beat that time.

Beat me to it!

Gavlor

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Marathon is off the agenda for this year. 10k race in August is the first target now and the race series 10k later in year is main one for the year. My PB is 1 hr 4 min (am a plodder even when capable of longer distances) so it's not a big stretch to aim to get back fit and beat that time.

Good stuff

tang1

You can choose your heros and your still one of mine for running & completing DCM last year and i said so at the time i believe. As stated already concentrate on the shorter distances for the rest of the year, maybe building up to the Athlone half in September where i would be glad to be your tour guide!! Then build on that for a marathon in 2014.

Keep the running going though PM, you have come so far, keep going. I wont lecture you on diet cause you know the story with that already.

Pisco Sour

tang1 wrote: »

You can choose your heros and your still one of mine for running & completing DCM last year and i said so at the time i believe.

I honestly don't believe that level of backslapping is going to help him. There's way too much of it on this log and I don't believe it is helping him. He's being congratulated for going for a run. He wants to be a runner, going for a run is expected. What he needs is constructive criticism, to seek out the advice of experienced runners like ecoli and krusty, listen to what they say, and implement it. He has no idea what sort of times he is capable of if he puts his mind to it. But posts like that will just keep him thinking he is doing great when the reality is he is underachieving. That's my 2c. Will prob get slated for it, but I find this log frustrating at times.

tang1

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I honestly don't believe that level of backslapping is going to help him. There's way too much of it on this log and I don't believe it is helping him. He's being congratulated for going for a run. He wants to be a runner, going for a run is expected. What he needs is constructive criticism, to seek out the advice of experienced runners like ecoli and krusty, listen to what they say, and implement it. He has no idea what sort of times he is capable of if he puts his mind to it. But posts like that will just keep him thinking he is doing great when the reality is he is underachieving. That's my 2c. Will prob get slated for it, but I find this log frustrating at times.

Ok sorry, PM your a big FATBOY, dont you ever dare lace up a pair of runners again cause you'll only cost Dublin City Council money by running. Is that kind of comment more helpful to PM?? Where did you start from Pisco?? Your a quality athlete no doubt going on your log. But i bet if someone started questioning your ability when you started running you would think?? PM deserves all the encouragement he can get regardless. I'll get slated for this(Pisco as i said your a quality athlete and i respect what you said). And as i said PM is a LEGEND in my opinion and to a lot of 2012 DCM Graduates.

Pisco Sour

tang1 wrote: »

Ok sorry, PM your a big FATBOY, dont you ever dare lace up a pair of runners again cause you'll only cost Dublin City Council money by running. Is that kind of comment more helpful to PM?? Where did you start from Pisco?? Your a quality athlete no doubt going on your log. But i bet if someone started questioning your ability when you started running you would think?? PM deserves all the encouragement he can get regardless. I'll get slated for this(Pisco as i said your a quality athlete and i respect what you said). And as i said PM is a LEGEND in my opinion and to a lot of 2012 DCM Graduates.

You are taking me up wrong. Of course encouragement is required. That's why I used the term "constructive criticism". That's why people have logs on here so they can learn from people more knowledgeable and experienced.

I wouldn't consider myself a quality athlete.

And read my first log and all the criticism my training got back when I was running marathons and the like. That sort if stuff helps.

I'm not questioning his ability. I'm questioning the commitment and work ethic. None of us know what his ability is because he's not giving himself a fair go at it.

tang1

Pisco Sour wrote: »

You are taking me up wrong. Of course encouragement is required. That's why I used the term "constructive criticism". That's why people have logs on here so they can learn from people more knowledgeable and experienced.

I wouldn't consider myself a quality athlete.

And read my first log and all the criticism my training got back when I was running marathons and the like. That sort if stuff helps.

If i took you up wrong sorry, as i said i believe your a quality athlete and i'm not licking your ar$e saying that. I think any kind of positive encouragement helps. When i was playing county football i believed anykind of positive comments helped and any derogatory ones were ignored.

Gavlor

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I honestly don't believe that level of backslapping is going to help him. There's way too much of it on this log and I don't believe it is helping him. He's being congratulated for going for a run. He wants to be a runner, going for a run is expected. What he needs is constructive criticism, to seek out the advice of experienced runners like ecoli and krusty, listen to what they say, and implement it. He has no idea what sort of times he is capable of if he puts his mind to it. But posts like that will just keep him thinking he is doing great when the reality is he is underachieving. That's my 2c. Will prob get slated for it, but I find this log frustrating at times.

I agree 100%

Pacing Mule

Pisco Sour wrote: »

You are taking me up wrong. Of course encouragement is required. That's why I used the term "constructive criticism". That's why people have logs on here so they can learn from people more knowledgeable and experienced.

I wouldn't consider myself a quality athlete.

And read my first log and all the criticism my training got back when I was running marathons and the like. That sort if stuff helps.

I'm not questioning his ability. I'm questioning the commitment and work ethic. None of us know what his ability is because he's not giving himself a fair go at it.

I've no problem taking advice from you or anyone re diet and training. I welcome it in fact. But I don't appreciate whatsoever you "questioning my commitment and work ethic" That's insulting and rude. You know nothing about me, my personal life and how committed I am or not.

Ironic that you can question me and have a go at me for going ahead with the marathon last year which I went through with because I was so committed to and worked hard for, take issue with anyone else who in any form shows support or admiration for that same commitment and drive, then come in here and say you constructively criticise to question my commitment and work ethic.

Whist these logs are not and should not be a back slapping excercise what they shouldn't be is a place to be insulted and what is heading towards harassment. So with all due respect to your athletic ability I'm going to ask you to apologise for questioning my commitment and ethics and if you can't or are unwilling to do so to refrain from posting in this log again.

Pacing Mule

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I honestly don't believe that level of backslapping is going to help him. There's way too much of it on this log and I don't believe it is helping him. He's being congratulated for going for a run. He wants to be a runner, going for a run is expected. What he needs is constructive criticism, to seek out the advice of experienced runners like ecoli and krusty, listen to what they say, and implement it. He has no idea what sort of times he is capable of if he puts his mind to it. But posts like that will just keep him thinking he is doing great when the reality is he is underachieving. That's my 2c. Will prob get slated for it, but I find this log frustrating at times.

That post I have no issue with btw. And I already have been in touch with ecoli who is taking me under his wing and developing a plan for me to progress properly.

zooming

Keep at it PM, you have had a hell of a year and been through so much, enjoy your runs!

Pisco Sour

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

I've no problem taking advice from you or anyone re diet and training. I welcome it in fact. But I don't appreciate whatsoever you "questioning my commitment and work ethic" That's insulting and rude. You know nothing about me, my personal life and how committed I am or not.

Ironic that you can question me and have a go at me for going ahead with the marathon last year which I went through with because I was so committed to and worked hard for, take issue with anyone else who in any form shows support or admiration for that same commitment and drive, then come in here and say you constructively criticise to question my commitment and work ethic.

Whist these logs are not and should not be a back slapping excercise what they shouldn't be is a place to be insulted and what is heading towards harassment. So with all due respect to your athletic ability I'm going to ask you to apologise for questioning my commitment and ethics and if you can't or are unwilling to do so to refrain from posting in this log again.

It depends what you are looking to get out of the sport. If you are happy with what you are doing then fair enough. If on the other hand you are serious about thus sport and making bug improvements then I stand by what I say. I don't believe you have put the hard yards in. Running is a sport of rapid early improvement. It shouldnt be one ofstagnation at such an early stage. I'm happy you have gone to ecoli. That's a very positive step and I wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing you make better progress over the coming year.

And harrassment? Give over!

greenb

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I'm questioning the commitment and work ethic.

Pisco, PM is a Marathon finisher. There are many still trying who would love to be able to say that about themselves.

What is more he finished a marathon carrying an injury and on incomplete training due to injury. A lot of people tried to persuade him not to do it. I didn't think he should have done it myself, but didn't add my opinion as there were many more experienced voices giving advice. He may have been misguided and even a little crazy, but certainly not lacking in commitment or work ethic.

Your quote above is totally out of order.

menoscemo

greenb wrote: »

Pisco, PM is a Marathon finisher. There are many still trying who would love to be able to say that about themselves.

What is more he finished a marathon carrying an injury and on incomplete training due to injury. A lot of people tried to persuade him not to do it. I didn't think he should have done it myself, but didn't add my opinion as there were many more experienced voices giving advice. He may have been misguided and even a little crazy, but certainly not lacking in commitment or work ethic.

Your quote above is totally out of order.

Pisco is also a Marathon finisher and many, many people questioned his work ethic when he was training for a marathon a few years ago.

Pisco did not appreciate the comments at the time but I am sure if you ask him now he would admit his commitment to training was not 100%....

ecoli

I would agree the work ethic comment was probably not the best phrased. The training approach may have been questionable in the eyes of some people

I think a lot of people have received some forms of comments on there training in the logs both "constructive" and "negative". I think there is place for both encouraging comments and HTFU type comments.

I know I received a good bit of criticism in my log in the early stages for training too hard and leaving it in training. In hindsight it was a fair assessment and one that took a while to properly sink in. Its good to have people cast a critical eye over the approach and give fresh perspective on things from their own experience and knowledge.

Sure PS has got a hard time in his log from some of us since the start of his 400m career. Its not meant to be offensive but sometimes all of us can be quite defensive of our approach simply because we have complete confidence in the way we are approaching training at that particular time, if we didnt we wouldn't be preparing ourselves mentally for our targets

Pacing Mule

Pisco Sour wrote: »

It depends what you are looking to get out of the sport. If you are happy with what you are doing then fair enough. If on the other hand you are serious about thus sport and making bug improvements then I stand by what I say. I don't believe you have put the hard yards in. Running is a sport of rapid early improvement. It shouldnt be one ofstagnation at such an early stage. I'm happy you have gone to ecoli. That's a very positive step and I wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing you make better progress over the coming year.

And harrassment? Give over!

There is a difference in not believing that hard yards have been put in versus a) the definition of hard yards relative to that person and b) whether or not those yards were not put in due to circumstances or the individuals lack of commitment.

I don't know how much you've read about me, my background or indeed if it has all been posted here on boards. For a quick recap - I'm heading for 40 years old. Up until last year I was a pure couch potato and had not excercised regularly in well over a decade. I was fat, unfit, depressed and unhealthy - ended up in hospital with a heart scare. I came off that base where on my first attempt at running lasted less than a minute and completed a marathon in 9 months. That to me is rapid early improvement. Along the way I put in some very very hard miles relative to my then fitness level.

There are some people who take up running having spent years doing other sports, maybe playing football, squash whatever and can knock out a marathon a lot easier than me. They have a core fitness level to work from and a harder miles for them could be commitment to pace runs faster times etc. For me it was about pushing that fat bastard body to increased mileage.

In all probability becuase of that lack of base I picked up an injury which really fecked up my last months training for the marathon and put me into a situation where medically I couldn't run until at least January. As it turned out that injury kept me out longer than that. Off the back of that we've welcomed a new baby into the house. Anyone here who actually has children themselves will know and understand that your commitment and energy is focussed solely on surviving the first couple of months until a routine develops. Routine is now developed and I'm back out there.

I'm of course embarrassed for myself for the decline in fitness since October. It's not easy coming on here and posting about it at all but I have done and I have been honest and open about it too. The fact I have done this IMO should be seen as some sign of commitment too.

When I see a post that congratulates me on getting back out there I take support and encouragement from it.
When I see a post that balances support but with a bit of reality / hard advice I gratefully accept that.
When I see a post that offers little to no support but still offers good even if hard to hear advice I will also accept that too.
When I read a post that questions my commitment and work ethic - I don't accept that whatseover and I take that very personally.

Pacing Mule

ecoli wrote: »

I would agree the work ethic comment was probably not the best phrased. The training approach may have been questionable in the eyes of some people

I think a lot of people have received some forms of comments on there training in the logs both "constructive" and "negative". I think there is place for both encouraging comments and HTFU type comments.

I know I received a good bit of criticism in my log in the early stages for training too hard and leaving it in training. In hindsight it was a fair assessment and one that took a while to properly sink in. Its good to have people cast a critical eye over the approach and give fresh perspective on things from their own experience and knowledge.

Sure PS has got a hard time in his log from some of us since the start of his 400m career. Its not meant to be offensive but sometimes all off us can be quite defensive of our approach simply because we have complete confidence in the way we are approaching training at that particular time, if we didnt we wouldn't be preparing ourselves mentally for our targets

This post crossed with mine but hopefully reads the same.

I've absolutely no problem with people offering genuine constructive criticism, advice, experience and benefits of their wisdom or telling me to HTFU. These days I may even listen to it :D I've no problem being told that someone feels my approach to something is wrong. I can debate approaches and training quite happily but when it gets to the stage that my personal attitudes, commitment and work ethics are being questioned, as I see it unfairly, that's going too far.

zooming

PM dont let it upset you, as another beginner/fatty/marathon struggler I fully understand how frustrating it must be after the months of hard training and dedication to have your work ethic brought into question. If someone said that about me Id be devastated too, but you can do what ever you put your mind to. Despite what anyone else says you completed a MARATHON wow. What an amazing achievement, most people cant say that

overpronator

Seems to me the best thing for you, legs allowing PM is to hit the roads for a few weeks, get some miles in the legs and forget about the log.

TRR

overpronator wrote: »

Seems to me the best thing for you, legs allowing PM is to hit the roads for a few weeks, get some miles in the legs and forget about the log.

I'd agree.

Regards criticism of back slapping I understand where PS is coming from but comes across a little harsher than meant I think. Regards PS's marathon log, you have nothing on him PM, you should find it and see the abuse (rightly so) he shifted have to go an unearth that little beauty myself and have a chuckle at it this evening

Pacing Mule

TRR wrote: »

I'd agree.

Regards criticism of back slapping I understand where PS is coming from but comes across a little harsher than meant I think. Regards PS's marathon log, you have nothing on him PM, you should find it and see the abuse (rightly so) he shifted have to go an unearth that little beauty myself and have a chuckle at it this evening

Throw up a link when you find it. Would be very interested to read it

(I did have a quick search but 4 years of posts to wade through is a bit time consuming !)

drquirky

Not to make what would seem like an obvious point but if you added up all the time you've spent talking/arguing on the internet about your running PM, you would probably have a good block of time to actually go out and run....

less drama= more running

That being said speaking from personal experience I can appreciate the new baby in the house thing. It was certainly a detriment to my running.

Put your head down, suck it up and do the training- maybe even use what people have said on the internet to psyche you up for it- whatever gets you out the door. Or don't tbh it makes no difference to me but the constant petty arguments, excuses, pontificating won't make you fit. I'm sorry to come off as harsh but I've watched this stuff go on both in your log and in some of the other threads and it just jumps out to me as a distraction. Prove me/ other people who doubt you on here wrong- train hard, lose weight, run progressively better and you'll be surprised the amount of respect you get on here even if your times are comparitively slower than some others. Runners aren't particularly sentimental, we respect consistent, dedicated training and hard work- the best thing about running is its up to you- you make it what it is! Good luck w/ whatever your next goal is....

Pacing Mule

drquirky wrote: »

Not to make what would seem like an obvious point but if you added up all the time you've spent talking/arguing on the internet about your running PM, you would probably have a good block of time to actually go out and run....

less drama= more running

That being said speaking from personal experience I can appreciate the new baby in the house thing. It was certainly a detriment to my running.

Put your head down, suck it up and do the training- maybe even use what people have said on the internet to psyche you up for it- whatever gets you out the door. Or don't tbh it makes no difference to me but the constant petty arguments, excuses, pontificating won't make you fit. I'm sorry to come off as harsh but I've watched this stuff go on both in your log and in some of the other threads and it just jumps out to me as a distraction. Prove me/ other people who doubt you on here wrong- train hard, lose weight, run progressively better and you'll be surprised the amount of respect you get on here even if your times are comparitively slower than some others. Runners aren't particularly sentimental, we respect consistent, dedicated training and hard work- the best thing about running is its up to you- you make it what it is! Good luck w/ whatever your next goal is....

Thanks

My job is online based so am constantly at a PC up to 12 hours a day - it's no distraction to my running whatsoever if I post / argue / tilt at windmills from a new window. I'm a stubborn SOB and tend not to let anything slide. :rolleyes:

But yeah - all I want to do is get fit, lose the weight and hopefully gain the respect of the community as a whole not just the people who know me well from the DCM 12 thread.

I believe I'm in safe hands for that with ecoli.

drquirky

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Thanks


I believe I'm in safe hands for that with ecoli.

More than once I've showed up at the track for a workout with him thinking the same but finishing it w/ a slightly different impression lol

ncmc

TRR wrote: »

I'd agree.

Regards criticism of back slapping I understand where PS is coming from but comes across a little harsher than meant I think. Regards PS's marathon log, you have nothing on him PM, you should find it and see the abuse (rightly so) he shifted have to go an unearth that little beauty myself and have a chuckle at it this evening

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Throw up a link when you find it. Would be very interested to read it

(I did have a quick search but 4 years of posts to wade through is a bit time consuming !)

Went and had a read through it myself after reading PS comments and I actually respect him greatly after reading it and his subsequent comments on this and other logs. It's always good to see people who have learned from their mistakes despite being very stubborn about their views at the time! He's man enough to admit that he did things all wrong and that he's not very proud of that marathon and I think that takes a big person. I hope he doesn't mind me posting a link to it.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055721369

TRR

ncmc wrote: »

Went and had a read through it myself after reading PS comments and I actually respect him greatly after reading it and his subsequent comments on this and other logs. It's always good to see people who have learned from their mistakes despite being very stubborn about their views at the time! He's man enough to admit that he did things all wrong and that he's not very proud of that marathon and I think that takes a big person. I hope he doesn't mind me posting a link to it.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055721369

Ah ****e, I'm going to definitely change the name of my log!

Younganne

Hi PM, Firstly congrats on the new arrival. a magical time so enjoy as you know how quickly they grow up!!
Theres lots of advice on here for you and encouragement to get going again. We know you have the determination and drive to get you where you want to go, so i want to wish you luck on your return to running.

Noone else can do it but you. Get the diet in order and the running will get easier as the weight comes off. I know you know this but can i offer one piece of advice for the diet bit, take control over what food is in the house now that you have a routine going with the new baby. if the convenience food is not there then it can't be eaten. I find its the only thing that works in our house and the kids get used to eating helthy food. Our fruit bowl is allowed to be dug into at anytime and the kids do!!

Don't see it as a diet and that sacrifices have to be made. See it as an opportunity to turn the whole family into a heathy eating family and everyone in your house will benefit.

Good luck

dna_leri

ncmc wrote: »

Went and had a read through it myself after reading PS comments and I actually respect him greatly after reading it and his subsequent comments on this and other logs. It's always good to see people who have learned from their mistakes despite being very stubborn about their views at the time! He's man enough to admit that he did things all wrong and that he's not very proud of that marathon and I think that takes a big person. I hope he doesn't mind me posting a link to it.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055721369

Brilliant reading, I had forgotten much of that.

It reminded me of the ex-smoker who later becomes rabid anti-smoker.

Pisco Sour

That old log of mine was a real shocker. I look back on it and cringe. I really hope that in 3-4 years time you will look back on some of the stuff you have written today with the same sentiments.

With regards my marathon, I still look back on the day as a great personal and life changing experience. I have great memories of it all. Very much like yourself with your marathon. But I would never consider it for a second any sort of athletic achievement. I did not run anywhere close to my potential. Neither have you.

There's 2 things you can do: 1) Continue thinking you are putting everything into this and go on doing what you have been or 2) Show commitment to losing 3-4 stone and get yourself into proper running shape which will enable a much higher degree of improvement. This is not separate to running, it is very much apart of it, and not showing commitment to eating healthy/ losing the weight is IMO not showing full commitment to your running. You will always be selling yourself short in terms of running until you properly change the lifestyle habits.

Just trying to help, take it or leave it. I echo DrQuirky's comments in that it doesn't really make any difference to my life what you do.