The 2013 In Between Grand Slam Thread

Mousewar

Aye, everything is slow. And now he's after the one tournament of note that is fast(ish).

Anyway, the point that I was getting at is in relation to his quote:
"We qualify on all the surfaces, so it would be great to change the surface every year."

This, of course, is illogical nonsense. They qualify on all surfaces for every tournament. You can't play Wimbledon without performing satisfactorily at other tournaments (i.e. have enough ranking points to qualify). This is the exact same for the WTF other than the fact that it's a harder tournament to qualify for.

The logical conclusion of his comment is that every tournament should vary its surface every year.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Mousewar wrote: »

The logical conclusion of his comment is that every tournament should vary its surface every year.

I would be happy with that. You might also get a bit of variety in who actually qualifies for the WTF too.

WaterLily.

Mousewar wrote: »

Looking for surface variety at the WTF doesn't make sense though. Why there?
Why not vary the surfaces at the FO or at Wimbledon? Why is it that he only wants variety at the one tournament that is not currently set up for him to win it?

Well because we already have at least one grand slam on each surface so there is no point in changing them. I don't think anyone could argue that Nadal wants all the slams to move to clay he clearly isn't saying that. But because there is only one WTF to me it could make sense to have it for say 3 years on hard court then clay or grass or alternate every year or whatever.

And the WTF fare different to the slams, you don't necessarily 'qualify' for Wimbledon, or the top 100 players don't, they get in automatically. The WTF is supposed to be the end to the season, the best 20 ish on the tour try to qualify, they try to gather as many points throughout the season on 3 surfaces. So why every single year, should the tour finals be held on the same surface?

Mousewar

WaterLily. wrote: »

Well because we already have at least one grand slam on each surface so there is no point in changing them.

We only have one FO. Why not vary that then. It's the same principle. He's just picked one tournament he doesn't like and argued that it should change.

WaterLily. wrote: »

And the WTF fare different to the slams, you don't necessarily 'qualify' for Wimbledon, or the top 100 players don't, they get in automatically. The WTF is supposed to be the end to the season, the best 20 ish on the tour try to qualify, they try to gather as many points throughout the season on 3 surfaces. So why every single year, should the tour finals be held on the same surface?

Other than those lower ranked who have to play qualifying, they get in based on their ranking (and some grass pedigree mumbo jumbo unique to wimbledon). And it's the same for the WTF - they get in based on their ranking (just less of them, that's all). It's the same thing. If you wanna get into Wimbledon you're gonna have to have posted some decent results on other surfaces throughout the year just like the WTF.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

If you did move the WTFs to a different surface every 3 years, well is there any point in anyone else playing the 3 years it's on clay? To me that would be stacking the odds in Nadal's favour and unfair to everyone else, not to mention pointless to watch.

Obviously Nadal won't be around forever, maybe it's something to look at down the line. End of the day though it's money that counts. If nobody is willing to outbid London they're not going to move it.

Mousewar

There would be nothing logically wrong with playing the WTF on clay notwithstanding that it might be uncompetitive. It has to be on some surface.
However, the ATP and ITF have a bigger responsibility to provide a variety of playing surfaces throughout the year to be fair to all playing styles. And in that responsibility they are failing miserably and as a result certain styles of tennis are dying out.
Varying the surface of the WTFs and leaving the other tournaments as they are would merely exacerbate this problem.

At a certain point Nadal has to realise that he doesn't get to dictate terms to the rest of the sport just so he can be suited.

WaterLily.

Mousewar wrote: »

There would be nothing logically wrong with playing the WTF on clay notwithstanding that it might be uncompetitive. It has to be on some surface.
However, the ATP and ITF have a bigger responsibility to provide a variety of playing surfaces throughout the year to be fair to all playing styles. And in that responsibility they are failing miserably and as a result certain styles of tennis are dying out.
Varying the surface of the WTFs and leaving the other tournaments as they are would merely exacerbate this problem.

At a certain point Nadal has to realise that he doesn't get to dictate terms to the rest of the sport just so he can be suited.

I think you are completely right there with your first point.

However Nadal doesn't dictate terms to tennis. He states his opinion, many people may not agree with him, many people will, he isn't dictating anything. People are blowing this waay out of proportion, the media ask him time and time again why he hasn't won a WTF and he says (to paraphrase hugely) well he probably would have a bigger chance of winning one if it wasn't on an indoor hard court every year which is his worst surface.

And we don't vary Roland Garros, or Wimbledon (could you imagine the LTA being told to rip up its grass and chuck down some clay, there would be uproar :P ) because they are the slams, the biggest tournaments, the WTF is different as it is half way between a slam and a masters. Also you don't qualify for Wimbledon, etc. in the same way, there is no 'Race to Wimbledon/Australia/New York each year.

I don't care whether the WTF stays as it is or changes surface I'm just saying that I see Nadal's point to a certain extent and he isn't dictating to tennis in the slightest.

Mousewar

WaterLily. wrote: »

Also you don't qualify for Wimbledon, etc. in the same way, there is no 'Race to Wimbledon/Australia/New York each year.
.

There is. They just don't call it a race. It's the exact same principle. If you're ranked high enough you get in. Otherwise, you have to play qualies or you're out.

Of course, all of that is merely to point out that there isn't really any difference between the WTF and any other tournament in the year (other than its eliteness). Hence, Nadal should stop moaning about it.

Cold Chocolate

Nadal doesn't seem to have a problem with there being 3 masters 1000 on clay andnone on grass, wonder why that is. He also doesn't seem to have to a problem with most tournaments having a slow surface these days.

Indoor hardcourts are as valid a surface as any other.

Ever since the australian open changed from rebound ace to plexii cushion its nearly as slow as clay.

John.Icy

At least we now know Roger can stick with the big boys. He just can't do it mentally. So many missed chances.

John.Icy

Even if he loses, hats of to Fed...first time in so long, even a year, I've seen him come through after being up and up yet still getting pegged back. Haven't seen him pull through a set like that against a top top player in ages.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

6-0 final set?

WaterLily.

It's definitely a promising sign, it looks like he just needed to get some of his confidence back and these tough matches against top players should really drive him on. He is definitely not finished yet, he can still really hold his own against them.

Come on Roger

ah, maybe I spoke too soon though, he's just been broken to love in the 3rd...

John.Icy

Even if he loses now, huge effort by Roger, he is fighting for everything.

Great match, for two tired players, the rallies in the 3rd set have been great.

MisterAnarchy

Whatever about the speed of the surfaces discussion what is going on with the rubbish camera angle at the indoor tournaments.
It makes the tennis almost unwatchable ,the camera is so low the court looks tiny and square .
Its like a table tennis court .
You cant get the right perspective,it looks like the players are tapping the ball as the court looks so short.

yerwanthere123

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Whatever about the speed of the surfaces discussion what is going on with the rubbish camera angle at the indoor tournaments.
It makes the tennis almost unwatchable ,the camera is so low the court looks tiny and square .
Its like a table tennis court .
You cant get the right perspective,it looks like the players are tapping the ball as the court looks so short.

I actually love the camera angle, really close to the action!

I do agree with the last thing you said though, we don't really have a full appreciation of just how hard they're hitting the ball.

John.Icy

No reaction to that match at all? Wasn't as good as their final but for a first round match its as good as you get.

Am I the only one happy to see Federer back able to play with the best of the best?

walshb

Pretty big error count again for Federer.

Cold Chocolate

It's encouraging to see Federer's performance improve but if he can't beat Djokovic at the O2 how will he beat him at the Australian open or the rest of the slower surfaces.

Mousewar

Cold Chocolate wrote: »

It's encouraging to see Federer's performance improve but if he can't beat Djokovic at the O2 how will he beat him at the Australian open or the rest of the slower surfaces.

Correct. His days of beating djokovic anywhere are over. Just remains to be seen if he can take nadal here. Would like to see that in the semis maybe. Well, not that I'd like to watch Nadal play at all but if he loses that'd be something.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Nadal beats Wawrinka, qualifies for SF and guarantees year end #1.

MisterAnarchy

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I actually love the camera angle, really close to the action!

I do agree with the last thing you said though, we don't really have a full appreciation of just how hard they're hitting the ball.

Its an awful camera angle ,I find it very hard to watch ,it looks unnatural.
The angle used by Wimbledon for the 3D is closer to the action but still has the right depth perspective,you could see the height of the ball going over the net .You can also appreciate how hard theses guys hit the ball.

A bit off topic but this video here shows the ridiculous amount of spin that Nadal imparts on the ball and how high he hits the ball over the net,its ridiculous to be honest,kicks like a mule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUvJjrlnqFs

Am I the only one happy to see Federer back able to play with the best of the best?

He is way off his best ,his unforced error count is huge,his second serve is poor and he bottles the big points more often than not.
Some of the unforced errors he hits these days wouldn't look out of place for a 12 year old at my local club.

Cold Chocolate

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Its an awful camera angle ,I find it very hard to watch ,it looks unnatural.
The angle used by Wimbledon for the 3D is closer to the action but still has the right depth perspective,you could see the height of the ball going over the net .You can also appreciate how hard theses guys hit the ball.

A bit off topic but this video here shows the ridiculous amount of spin that Nadal imparts on the ball and how high he hits the ball over the net,its ridiculous to be honest,kicks like a mule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUvJjrlnqFs

He is way off his best ,his unforced error count is huge,his second serve is poor and he bottles the big points more often than not.
Some of the unforced errors he hits these days wouldn't look out of place for a 12 year old at my local club.

Still though, he can produce some of the best tennis any 32 year old ever has. I doubt a 32 year old Djokovic or Nadal would stand much of a chance against him.

WaterLily.

Great match between Nadal and Wawrinka!! Really wanted to see it go into a decider but Stan just didn't do quite enough... I'd say he will definitely make it to the semis though, he is playing very very we'll so I can't see him losing to Ferrer.

So Rafa is the year end no1 for the 3rd time! Thoroughly well deserved and well done, what a year for him!

Floppybits

Milos Raonic has to be most boring commentator ever. Who ever hired him should be fired.

Mousewar

i thought he was a player.

Floppybits

Mousewar wrote: »

i thought he was a player.

He is but he didn't make it to the ATP finals, so he is commentating. But he is so boring.

Mousewar

So Federer betters Delpo's result against Gasquet. Doesn't really matter though I suppose - he'll still need to beat Delpo.
Although if Delpo beats Djoko tonight and Federer does beat Delpo, it's going to get confusing again.

WaterLily.

Nadal beats Berdych 6-4 1-6 6-3, Stan must have been having multiple heart attacks watching that 2nd set! Berdych's serving was almost impossible to return for a good half an hour and Nadal just went walkabout.

Rjd2

WaterLily. wrote: »

Nadal beats Berdych 6-4 1-6 6-3, Stan must have been having multiple heart attacks watching that 2nd set! Berdych's serving was almost impossible to return for a good half an hour and Nadal just went walkabout.

Berdych was in the zone to be fair on Rafa, but he hung in and Berdych gifted him a break in the last set. Same old song sadly.

John.Icy

YES! Each set felt like deja vu, some fight back by Roger.

Gutted for Del Potro, hate seeing him lose in tight matches.

Cannot wait till tomorrow!

RosyLily

What a comeback from Federer!! Nice to see him pull it off when almost down and out.

Gutted for Delpo though, but there's always next year.

Nadal vs. Federer XXXII tomorrow.

Snowy Man

It could a beat tight match tomorrow. Old possibly tired Fed on his best surface vs peak hardcourt nadal on his weakest surface except for maybe fast grass.

If Fed can sustain his top form he wins this. Anything less and Nadal wins.

yerwanthere123

Can't believe Delpo threw that away :rolleyes: He played great for the first seven games of the match. After that he was just so... passive? I dunno. Hopefully he can do something next year.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Ugh, not looking forward to either SF now.

If Djokovic plays like he played earlier in the year then his match against Wawrinka might be entertaining but if he plays like he's been playing the past week it'll be a one way street.

Federer vs Nadal is a snooze fest.

yerwanthere123

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Ugh, not looking forward to either SF now.

If Djokovic plays like he played earlier in the year then his match against Wawrinka might be entertaining but if he plays like he's been playing the past week it'll be a one way street.

Federer vs Nadal is a snooze fest.

I know. A lot of people seem to be playing it up like Federer actually has a chance or something.

Mousewar

Great match today - really enjoyed it.
And yes, both semis are walkovers basically.
Stan has a slight chance if he plays spectacular I suppose.

Snowy Man

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I know. A lot of people seem to be playing it up like Federer actually has a chance or something.

On this surface he does have a chance.

yerwanthere123

Snowy Man wrote: »

On this surface he does have a chance.

At this stage of his career and given his form this year, I have my doubts. I may be wrong though. We shall see.

Not really keen on either, but if I had to pick someone to win I'd probably go for Fed. I want Wawrinka to win the whole thing, but how likely is that to happen :pac:

WaterLily.

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I want Wawrinka to win the whole thing, but how likely is that to happen :pac:

Same, would love a Wawrinka/Federer final!!

Rjd2

Lads calling it now, i have spent the whole day studying the form....:eek:



























































































Novak to beat Gasquet in 2 sets;)

WaterLily.

Gasquet is making Djokovic work for this! Into a first set tiebreak, whatever happens Gasquet isn't rolling over like everyone expected him to!

I'm very impressed with how Gasquet has done in this tournament, he really pushed Delpo, it was such a tight match and although it was straight sets against Federer it was no walk in the park for Roger.

But I think you may ever so possibly be right about Novak in 2 here :P

WaterLily.

^ Well looks like Gasquet has just proved everyone wrong!

Allez Richard!!

walshb

One of the best rallies ever juts there, and won by Federer.

John.Icy

Had hopes that it would be a close game when Fed broke back to 5-5.

But mother of god...silly amounts of unforced errors by Fed. He'll never win anything big again unless he cuts them out or avoids Nadal or Djokovic.

WaterLily.

I have to say I'm loving this match, but Federer is just making too many errors! He can't expect to beat the very best with so many unnecessary faults; yes he'll probably get away with that against weaker players but it's just not good enough against Djokovic, Nadal, etc.

Edit: thought I posted this about 10 mins ago and then John you beat me to it, totally agree

Oh and that's that! Disappointing from Roger, I really had hopes that he might be able to at least push Rafa... it was a long shot, he was thoroughly outplayed.

Snowy Man

You know Federer's career is coming to an end when he can't even beat Nadal on an indoor hardcourt. Two years ago he Nadal 6-3 6-0.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Snowy Man wrote: »

You know Federer's career is coming to an end when he can't even beat Nadal on an indoor hardcourt. Two years ago he Nadal 6-3 6-0.

Two years ago Nadal was really ill and had to leave the court to throw up during his first match. Doesn't count.

MisterAnarchy

WaterLily. wrote: »

Oh and that's that! Disappointing from Roger, I really had hopes that he might be able to at least push Rafa... it was a long shot, he was thoroughly outplayed.

He wasnt thoroughly outplayed .
He started the match very well ,serving well and gave up hardly any points in his first 4 service games .
He should have been a break up before his serve completely deserted him and he couldnt buy a first serve.

He is a broken man mentally and I cant see him beating Nadal again .
How do you go from serving almost flawlessly to not being able to get a first serve in ,its mental.
He seems to throw in 1-2 bum service games every set against his main rivals ,Nadal didnt do anything to break Federer it was poor serves and bad forehands that gifted Nadal the games.

Near the end of the second set Federer looked sorry for himself ,the head was down ,he was resigned to defeat ,it was sad to watch ,no fight at all .

The Federer of old would always up his game at the vital time in sets ,near the end and at the start of a set.
Nowadays he plays these games poorly ,he gets nervous and his serve deserts him under pressure .

For once I was actually impressed with Castle and Henman on BBC ,they analysed the game very well,they must have upped their game due to complaints.

Becker and Rusedski on Sky said Federer needs a new coach,what he needs the most is a sports psychologist .

You know Federer's career is coming to an end when he can't even beat Nadal on an indoor hardcourt. Two years ago he Nadal 6-3 6-0.

Nadal was happy just to keep the ball in play today and let Federer blow up in a few vital service games.
Prime Federer would have flogged Nadal ,he wouldnt lose his serve and break Nadal easily 3-4 times .

Btw does anyone else find it very dark at the O2 ,the lighting is very poor and its hard to see the ball .

yerwanthere123

Felt kinda bad for Federer today, but in reality I think he should be grateful he qualified for London at all, and was gifted a spot in the semi's by Delpo. The best I think he can hope for next year (in my opinion) is to get back in the top 4 and stay there.