Rainfall Showers

An Cigire

Hey all,

Anyone have a any idea or suggestion on installing a rainfall shower and fitted/non detachable shower head.

Is there much difference over installing a rainfall shower over a standard electric shower?

Any tips would be appreciated..

Davy

Do you mean what difference is there to install, or how to they compare for the person using it?


They are very different, but you need certain things to but in a shower with a rainfall head

An Cigire

Yes in the installation. I have used them several time and find them a superior shower but I was wondering what involved in installing them generally? Anything you specifically require?

Many Thanks

muffler

Should I move this to the Weather forum or Plumbing & Heating forum? Decisions decisions.

I'll opt for the latter

An Cigire

Im only after discovering there H&F section so yes please Move away sir..

muffler

Done

Davy

Well usually fed from a pump hot and cold to a mixer valve, then the head. Where the electric instant shower will just require cold feed plus cable. Advantage is than you don't need water heated via immersion, oil/gas boiler but the quality of shower isn't as good.

Their is a lot of different rainfall heads, some use less water than others, so maybe have a look and see what type you after

An Cigire

Cheers Davy much appreciated

Joey the lips

You cannot attach a rain fall head to a standard or indeed most electric showers. You need to install a pumped shower. Pump shower usually involves

New cylinder
3 bar pump
Good quality thermostatic shower

You won't see much change out of 3k

An Cigire

It's an 1970s house I'm renovating so its from scratch pretty much so just looking into the option..

I believe there is also electric showers with some sort of detachable rainfall heads.. They any use?

Cheers

Joey the lips

An Cigire wrote: »

I believe there is also electric showers with some sort of detachable rainfall heads.. They any use?

Cheers

No there is not. Sorry.


And if by chance you find one I am unsure of then chances are it will not work in Ireland with its low pressure

An Cigire

I'm a novice in this area so appreciate the info..

If you where to fit rainfall in a ensuite and main toilet would it 3-4k for the plumbing work etc..?

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

You cannot attach a rain fall head to a standard or indeed most electric showers. You need to install a pumped shower. Pump shower usually involves

New cylinder
3 bar pump
Good quality thermostatic shower

You won't see much change out of 3k

An Cigire wrote: »

I'm a novice in this area so appreciate the info..

If you where to fit rainfall in a ensuite and main toilet would it 3-4k for the plumbing work etc..?

New 42x18 cylinder to be honest i would try go for a 60x18. Supply and fit roughly 1600

3 bar pump supply and fit about 1200

Theremostatic shower supply and fit.. 1000k

kerryplumbing

Joey

If you are seriously getting those prices Joey I would be amazed - for a start they cant be priced seperately would have to be priced as one job

Materials would possibly come to 1k all in and whatever labour charged - To do it all together is no more than a days work.

An Cigire

Lads appreciate the feedback.. Helping to give me an idea :-)

Joey the lips

kerryplumbing wrote: »

Joey

If you are seriously getting those prices Joey I would be amazed - for a start they cant be priced seperately would have to be priced as one job

Materials would possibly come to 1k all in and whatever labour charged - To do it all together is no more than a days work.

I am not. Its just a rough guide. The reason i price them seperatly because there is other issues. ie the quality and price of the pump or shower and the make nature of the cylinder.

Honestly if your getting a 3 bar pump cylinder and good quality shower under 1k for materials i would be doubtful they are good quality...


especially the pump.

corkgsxr

sur a grunfos 3 bar is 400 all by itself

daver123

Joey the lips wrote: »

I am not. Its just a rough guide. The reason i price them seperatly because there is other issues. ie the quality and price of the pump or shower and the make nature of the cylinder.

Honestly if your getting a 3 bar pump cylinder and good quality shower under 1k for materials i would be doubtful they are good quality...


especially the pump.

I got a salamander 2 bar pump for 280 and a Hudson Reed rainfall shower and thermostatic mixer for 500.

kerryplumbing

a Stuart Turner Monsoon 3 bar pump can be obtained for just short of €300.00 and a Triton Thermostatic Rainfall Shower can be obtained for €200.00. You may have to search for these prices but they are available - and there is nothing shoddy about the quality of either unit. I accept that shower pump prices from some suppliers in this country are outrageously priced but deals are out there

LIFFY FISHING

kerryplumbing wrote: »

a Stuart Turner Monsoon 3 bar pump can be obtained for just short of €300.00 and a Triton Thermostatic Rainfall Shower can be obtained for €200.00. You may have to search for these prices but they are available - and there is nothing shoddy about the quality of either unit. I accept that shower pump prices from some suppliers in this country are outrageously priced but deals are out there

I can assure you that a stuart turner 3 bar pump cant be bought for under 300euro, no matter where you shop around .

mike literis

http://www.taps4less.ie/PP/ST-46532.html

€370 not a bad price
€380 for a cylinder
between €200 and €300 for a really good shower
allow another €200 for fittings pipe and electrical sundries

any self respecting plumber could easily do this in a day

LIFFY FISHING

mike literis wrote: »

http://www.taps4less.ie/PP/ST-46532.html

€370 not a bad price
€380 for a cylinder
between €200 and €300 for a really good shower
allow another €200 for fittings pipe and electrical sundries

any self respecting plumber could easily do this in a day

Thats a 1.8 bar pump for 370e, not continously rated, plastic body, imported from a UK website & not supported by warantee by the Irish distributer/ importer , they dont import that pump, if you buy these pumps they are not converted for Irish copper.
Just be aware what you are buying & the back up service on products, this is a host web site for a Uk distributer

mike literis

what about tubs and tiles ?

http://tubsandtiles.ie/products.aspx?c=198

LIFFY FISHING

mike literis wrote: »

what about tubs and tiles ?

http://tubsandtiles.ie/products.aspx?c=198

The pics on this website are of old model pumps, the st 55 hasnt been made in 3 years , the showermate the same & the brass body pumps i the pocs havent been made in over 2 years.

kerryplumbing

http://www.taps4less.ie/PP/ST-46419.html - I think you'll find you can get the valve for under under €300.00. I accept what you are saying about converting to Irish copper but the manufacturers warranty is always valid

LIFFY FISHING

kerryplumbing wrote: »

http://www.taps4less.ie/PP/ST-46419.html - I think you'll find you can get the valve for under under €300.00. I accept what you are saying about converting to Irish copper but the manufacturers warranty is always valid

Now you are posting misleading specifications, thats a single impeller pump, yes manufacturers warranties are always valid, how long would you think it will take a service guy to come to Rep Ireland if you buy a pump from the UK, my pount been if you buy a grey import you are on your own if things go wrong & as a plumber you know that you need back up service when this happens.

Joey the lips

kerryplumbing wrote: »

http://www.taps4less.ie/PP/ST-46419.html - I think you'll find you can get the valve for under under €300.00. I accept what you are saying about converting to Irish copper but the manufacturers warranty is always valid

You surly realise that it's an incorrect install to fit a single impeller pump to a thermostatic shower. Additionally I am fairly certain I am aware of the Hudson reed shower you discuss. It's a 6" rain head which to be honest for the orig posters requirements is crap. To get a true rainfall effect I would not use anything less than 10-12". Additionally I would also fit a divert or for a riser rail kit as something the ladies don't want to drench there lovely new hair after spending a fortune getting it done.

A 42x18 cylinder , fitting etx has been omitted from your quote and that a 42 at a min. I would much prepare a 60"

I stand by my opinion it is honest and fair.

daver123

Hudson Reed offer a 20 year guarantee on most of their products i do not think that is crap.

mike literis

Joey the lips wrote: »

You surly realise that it's an incorrect install to fit a single impeller pump to a thermostatic shower.

ok. so you want a pump to get up to 3 bar ? yes ? you already have 3 bar cold water over head supplying your tank , you can take a feed off and direct it to shower .
fit single impeller pump on feed from hot water cylinder . would that not work ?
. your shower is rated to take high pressure so makes no difference where your cold is sourced as as it's a thermostatic mixer hot will open when required and activate the reed switch .

corkgsxr

mike literis wrote: »

ok. so you want a pump to get up to 3 bar ? yes ? you already have 3 bar cold water over head supplying your tank , you can take a feed off and direct it to shower .
fit single impeller pump on feed from hot water cylinder . would that not work ?
. your shower is rated to take high pressure so makes no difference where your cold is sourced as as it's a thermostatic mixer hot will open when required and activate the reed switch .

You mean mains cold supply with a boosted hot?

Rare enough to have any mains supply over a bar.

And you get interface.

If your boosting one it's much better to boost both

Joey the lips

daver123 wrote: »

Hudson Reed offer a 20 year guarantee on most of their products i do not think that is crap.

That's on the coatings on the taps not the pumps. 1 to 3 years depending on the pump model..

mike literis wrote: »

ok. so you want a pump to get up to 3 bar ? yes ? you already have 3 bar cold water over head supplying your tank , you can take a feed off and direct it to shower .
fit single impeller pump on feed from hot water cylinder . would that not work ?
. your shower is rated to take high pressure so makes no difference where your cold is sourced as as it's a thermostatic mixer hot will open when required and activate the reed switch .

This is madness. Makes no sense and will not work. Sorry.

daver123

Joey the lips wrote: »

That's on the coatings on the taps not the pumps. 1 to 3 years depending on the pump model..

Hudson Reed supplied the Shower head and that is covered by a 20 year guarantee. The pump was supplied by Salamander and that is covered by a 2 year guarantee. Have a look at the quote below from the Ultra Group website which supply Hudson Reed

The majority of Hudson Reed products are covered by a market-leading 20 year guarantee and the majority of Ultra products are offered with a 10 year guarantee. All Premier shower enclosures and bath screens come witha lifetime guarantee, other Premier products are guaranteed for 5 years.

DubGal10

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

The pics on this website are of old model pumps, the st 55 hasnt been made in 3 years , the showermate the same & the brass body pumps i the pocs havent been made in over 2 years.

Showermate pumps are still stocked in Heatmerchants & Tubs and Tiles

LIFFY FISHING

DubGal10 wrote: »

Showermate pumps are still stocked in Heatmerchants & Tubs and Tiles

Didnt say they werent, I simply stated these pumps were no longer made, & havent been made for years, I am not surprised Hearmerchants have old stock considering they went into recievership 20 months ago, and have been through the mill since then, btw tubs and tiles are heatmerchants.

An Cigire

So going by the previous comments ball park what could I expect to pay for two rainfall showers for a main bathroom & ensuite which are located side by side.

Could a plumber have both done in two days?

Separately if I was getting a complete central heating system installed would I be better getting the central heating in first?

Joey the lips

An Cigire wrote: »

So going by the previous comments ball park what could I expect to pay for two rainfall showers for a main bathroom & ensuite which are located side by side.

Could a plumber have both done in two days?

Separately if I was getting a complete central heating system installed would I be better getting the central heating in first?

I answered that one. If your getting a central heating system in then it can be done at the same time. The plumber will most likely fit a Surrey/Warwick flange if your shore is going to be hot water dependent which believe it or not the lazy buggers don't do all the time.

Just get 3 quote and remember

Big shower head = 12 inch
Riveter riser rail need for cleaning shower and her hair
Good quality thermostatic shower valve
60 x18 ind insulated cylinder
3 bar twin positive head shower pump

deandean

+1 on the size, you want about a 12" shower head.

But you need a serious flowrate to get a good shouer, I'd estimate 15 - 20 litres per minute. The pump delivery pressure (3 Bar or whatever) is one thing, but make sure you have the flowrate too.

u2thepale

deandean wrote: »

+1 on the size, you want about a 12" shower head.

But you need a serious flowrate to get a good shouer, I'd estimate 15 - 20 litres per minute. The pump delivery pressure (3 Bar or whatever) is one thing, but make sure you have the flowrate too.

Dean /Joey,

Am looking at the following Nicles Shower System,
http://www.nikles.com/index.php/shower-system-nikles-pure-1-t260-pd10.html

Judging by your comments above regarding the shower head size would I be wise to look at a different system ???


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