Test drove A Nissan Leaf Today !

@60

I was passing by Windsor Belgard today and I thought I'd pop in and see if they had one for a test drive and took one for a spin.

All I can say is it was beyond my expectations the power delivery was the most impressive of all, I knew I would love the Torque of electric drive but I had no idea I would like it that much.

It was amazing to hit the throttle and the power was instant, slowing down at a junction and hitting the power again and no delay what so ever, there is no clutch, no auto gearbox to get confused, in fact there is no gear box at all it's just motor to reducer gear to the drive shafts that's it. It has to be experienced.

I was also very impressed with the sheer quietness of the motor, there is just a faint whir of the motor up to 100 kph.

handling is hard to judge around the roads around belgard but turning a bend at a junction at a decent speed was impressive, I came across no roundabouts but it seemed impressive.

The 0-100 is also hard to judge but it pushes you back in your seat as soon as you hit the throttle, lets just say acceleration is very impressive, though what it's like to over take I don't know. It's limited to about 80-84 mph and I just hardly had it at 60 mph but if it has anything like the punch at lower speeds it will be very impressive on the open road.

There is plenty of room In the back, I'm about 5 foot 8 with short legs and there is plenty of room behind with my seat position. Head room might be tight for a 6 footer.

I thought I wouldn't like the bright interior but i found it quiet pleasant.

My brother who is obsessed with Audi and drives an A6 was very very impressed, so that's saying something.

The boot is decent but the updated model in March or April will see the charger moved to the engine bay so there will be more space, behind the back seats where the charger is now. The charger will also be upgraded to 6 kw from 3 so charge time at home from 0 will take around 4 hours.

The heater will also get a much more efficient heat pump making it consume around half the power and sometimes less depending on outside temp.

The list price was 27,500 Euro's with trade in of 5500 for the Prius. Leaving a balance of 22,000 Euro's.

Petrol in the prius @60 mpg will cost about 3500 a year or over 5 years I intend to keep it 17,500 Euro's.

Maintenance is around 500 a year, if no major service is needed. Saving 2500 over the 5 years. But the Leaf needs a inspection not a service once a year costing around 100 Euro or 500 over the 5 years for warranty purposes so that saves 2,000 Euro's.

The tax cost 500 on the prius being an 07 the leaf costs 120 saving 1900 over the 5 years.

So total savings over the Prius or over any 60 mpg 1.5 liter petrol or diesel would be 21,400 over the 5 years.

Not a saving but that money would pay back the leaf over the 60 mpg Prius at 25k miles a year over 5 years. Not bad.

Put it this way a TDI GolF 140hp DSG highline costs 29,245 Euros on the VW website, the dealer price could be more.

Anyone who would spend 27500 on a normal car would be mad not to think about the Leaf with it's cheap cost to fuel. And a terrific drive.

The Leaf has sat nav, rear parking camera and Pre heating or cooling would add around 2500 Euro's to the list price of a Golf not to mention the cost of led headlights if that was even an option on the golf.

The Leaf will also have different trip ( EDIT :TRIM options not trip) options for the first time when the updated model comes in the spring with no sat nav, reverse camera etc reducing the cost and it will soon be made in the U.K further reducing the cost.

Either way the Leaf made me realise how out dated a petrol or diesel car is. It really is that good. Range is a problem for some but the E.U have given 1 million or so euro's for a load of fast chargers meaning by the end of 2014 there will be nowhere on the Island you can't go in an electric car. I plan to do 25,000 miles or so a year in the Leaf and granted to be safe I need a charger at work for winter driving unless the updated heater makes a difference, if it does then I can travel 85 miles a day solely on my own electricity. As the batter ages I could use the work charger but I estimate around 150 -200,000 miles before the reduced range will be noticeable for me. If using a charger at work. But I need a charger in work before I could make the decision oh and also to be made permanent, I'm due to hear back about that soon.

If electric is the future of motoring then I want it !

eringobragh

I reckon if the Leaf murdered your first born you'd still love it

Good story though...it wouldn't be for me though not because its electric but I wouldn't spend €20000 + on any car be it ICE or electric

Whats the breakdown on the €500 maintenance bill BTW? Presume its for 2 services a year going on your mileage?

OldmanMondeo

Good read, couple of questions,

1. Room in the car, what would it compare to? Focus/Golf or something bigger?

2. Range, did the sales person give any indication of range under a full load?

dar83

Saw one of these recently turning on to the Malahide Rd from the N32, can't say the looks do anything for me at all. The rear lights and surrounds especially.

Can I just ask, apart from the Prius, what are your other previous cars that you've driven? Just interested to know what your comparing the handling and driving characteristics with.

eringobragh

eringobragh wrote: »

I reckon if the Leaf murdered your first born you'd still love it

Good story though...it wouldn't be for me though not because its electric but I wouldn't spend €20000 + on any car be it ICE or electric

Whats the breakdown on the €500 maintenance bill BTW? Presume its for 2 services a year going on your mileage?

LOL I have no children. But it surprised me at how good it actually was to drive.

But I get ye, I wouldn't spend 20 K on any car either only I'm already spending most of it on road tax, maintenance and fuel so it almost pays for itself. But unless doing the miles the figures don't add up. If buying new then it makes perfect sense if you would be spending that on any car.

They check fluids, rotate tyres and check the battery top up washer fluid. Check suspension, change brake fluids every 2 years or so.

The 500 Euro is maintenance over the 5 years.

basically think of a normal car, take out the engine and gearbox and that's what you have left to maintain. You still have coolant and brake fluid.

Big Nasty

And there I was thinking Mad Lads from Kildare always drove Pasatts! :eek::pac::D

MuppetCheck

So there is still all the suspension bits, brakes and tyres. I think 500 to maintain over 5 years is a bit off unless I'm missing something. A set of tyres would cost that surely?

OldmanMondeo

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Good read, couple of questions,

1. Room in the car, what would it compare to? Focus/Golf or something bigger?

2. Range, did the sales person give any indication of range under a full load?

I would say it hasn't quiet the room of the prius, can't really compare it to the Golf, if anything I would say it's not smaller than it anyway.

The sales man knew I knew a lot more about the Leaf than he did, so he couldn't really say more than the Nissan quote of" up to 100 miles", but he wouldn't be wrong. It does have the "up to 100" but things like under 10 degrees, speed and heater will effect it but the general information from the leaf community is a consumption of 3.5 kw/hrs per mile and the leaf has 21 usable kw/hrs in the battery for an average range of 74 or so miles.

For most people it's more than enough in a day. Or fast charge for the day trip. If I could do 25000 miles a year I think that's more than good enough with about 3 hours charge in work. Or 10 min on a fast charger.

They will be installing enough fast chargers to make all Island travel possible by the end of 2014. Or sat over night in a hotel and charge, more and more hotels are installing slow chargers.

eringobragh

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL I have no children. But it surprised me at how good it actually was to drive.

But I get ye, I wouldn't spend 20 K on any car either only I'm already spending most of it on road tax, maintenance and fuel so it almost pays for itself. But unless doing the miles the figures don't add up. If buying new then it makes perfect sense if you would be spending that on any car.

They check fluids, rotate tyres and check the battery top up washer fluid. Check suspension, change brake fluids every 2 years or so.

The 500 Euro is maintenance over the 5 years.

basically think of a normal car, take out the engine and gearbox and that's what you have left to maintain. You still have coolant and brake fluid.

I meant the €500 p.a bill for the Prius Maintenance...whats the breakdown there?

Deleted User wrote:

Maintenance is around 500 a year, if no major service is needed. Saving 2500 over the 5 years. But the Leaf needs a inspection not a service once a year costing around 100 Euro or 500 over the 5 years for warranty purposes so that saves 2,000 Euro's.

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

So there is still all the suspension bits, brakes and tyres. I think 500 to maintain over 5 years is a bit off unless I'm missing something. A set of tyres would cost that surely?

I've only ever had to replace suspension mounts on the 1st gen VW caddy van. And never since ?

Tyres sure but those cost figures I came up with are not including tyres, that will be costing me what it costs me now anyway.

MuppetCheck

Deleted User wrote: »

I've only ever had to replace suspension mounts on the 1st gen VW caddy van. And never since ?

Tyres sure but those cost figures I came up with are not including tyres, that will be costing me what it costs me now anyway.

Well depends on size, but should have been made clearer in original post.

Suasdaguna1

Great for city work granted......your mother in law gets knocked down the other side of the country? Hop into the leaf or sit at home and send her flowers?

Latter for me but I still stick to my mantra ....hopelessly impractical and one is at the utter mercy of a charging receptor.

In cabinteely there's an electricity receptor across the road from the library. It's got to the stage folk just park in this spot as its never used for what it was set up for.

awec

If electric motoring ever gets to a serious level of popularity then they will find a way to tax it. The losses made on fuel would have to be offset.

kippy

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

Great for city work granted......your mother in law gets knocked down the other side of the country? Hop into the leaf or sit at home and send her flowers?

Latter for me but I still stick to my mantra ....hopelessly impractical and one is at the utter mercy of a charging receptor.

In cabinteely there's an electricity receptor across the road from the library. It's got to the stage folk just park in this spot as its never used for what it was set up for.

It mightn't be for you at the moment but for a lot of people it will become a viable option within the next few years, if not already.
There are many "two car" (small) families out there, where one car could easily be one of these types of cars, indeed there are many people living in cities who rarely if ever drive outside those cities.

Personally they are still a bit out of my price range and I have questions about the second hand models (or will do in a few years) but the way things are going there is a strong chance that at least one car in my household will be electric in the next 5 years.

kippy

awec wrote: »

If electric motoring ever gets to a serious level of popularity then they will find a way to tax it. The losses made on fuel would have to be offset.

They would and indeed I assume there will be tax implications down the line however tax is merely ONE area of cost associated with running a car.

mickdw

I think the Leaf is an excellent idea for 2 car households as pointed out above, where one car does the school run etc. Apart from that its a non runner imo.
As for the the acceleration, thats great but if you are worried about range all the time, its not much use. Id get a gs 450h instead for that silent push in the back:D

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

I think the Leaf is an excellent idea for 2 car households as pointed out above, where one car does the school run etc. Apart from that its a non runner imo.
As for the the acceleration, thats great but if you are worried about range all the time, its not much use. Id get a gs 450h instead for that silent push in the back:D

Great get a gs 450 h I bet you wouldn't pay for the fuel over 25000 miles a year.

I plan 25000 miles a year and that's a non runner ?

awec

The biggest blocker for electric cars at the moment is not the cars themselves but the infrastructure. I'm sure they are facing the same problem faced by petrol cars all those years ago when there wasn't a Texaco on every street corner. You have to weigh up whether the inconvenience of the short range is worth the associated cost savings (which are admittedly quite huge).

I think I'd like one, the savings on fuel would be fantastic, but the range thing would bug me.

dar83

dar83 wrote: »

Saw one of these recently turning on to the Malahide Rd from the N32, can't say the looks do anything for me at all. The rear lights and surrounds especially.

Can I just ask, apart from the Prius, what are your other previous cars that you've driven? Just interested to know what your comparing the handling and driving characteristics with.

I've driven lots of cars. And I said the Leaf appeared to have good handling for the amount of time I had in it and the roads I could drive. It has a very low center of gravity and it's heavy so it should be well planted. The steering is light as expected like the prius. Doesn't bother me really, I'm not a rally driver. And the leaf is not meant to be a rally car.

people should really drive the Leaf before making judgment.

awec

awec wrote: »

The biggest blocker for electric cars at the moment is not the cars themselves but the infrastructure. I'm sure they are facing the same problem faced by petrol cars all those years ago when there wasn't a Texaco on every street corner. You have to weigh up whether the inconvenience of the short range is worth the associated cost savings (which are admittedly quite huge).

I think I'd like one, the savings on fuel would be fantastic, but the range thing would bug me.

As I said if I plan 25000 miles a year I think that's pretty good range don't you ?

I get what you are saying, and the leaf won't suit all. But for most people it's perfect. And anyone willing to spend 27 K on a car should seriously consider it.

The charging infrastructure is lacking, I'll grant you but improving. And in 2 years there will be a lot more fast chargers. Don't forget a good few hotels have chargers that can charge a leaf over night. And there are a few fast chargers already.

Remember the Zoe can charge in under an hour from most public chargers. The new gen of fast chargers will be compatible with the Leaf and Zoe.

I don't think zoe is for me because with my mileage I would end up paying as much in battery rental as what a leaf will cost and I think the Leaf is a better car. But the low purchase price of zoe is very attractive for lower mileage drivers.

Matt Simis

Deleted User wrote: »

I've driven lots of cars. And I said the Leaf appeared to have good handling for the amount of time I had in it and the roads I could drive. It has a very low center of gravity and it's heavy so it should be well planted. The steering is light as expected like the prius. Doesn't bother me really, I'm not a rally driver. And the leaf is not meant to be a rally car.

people should really drive the Leaf before making judgment.

Yeah... Im still thinking you have a very limited pool of cars you are comparing to (none of which are likely anything but Paddy spec commuters) and have EV goggles still on! You say it shows how "dated" ICE is by comparison (an oxymoron as pointed out previously, they are effectively the sane century old vintage technology wise) but limited range, low average speed, 100s of times slower to "refuel", high weight and low performance describe the Leaf you just drove too.

You think someone would be mad to spend 27k on a "normal" car... but you really mean:

- Only look at new cars and ignore the world of vastly superior used cars (its like recycling)
- Work and live beside semi-state supplied charging points
- Live within the maximum range while stricktly averaging 100kph at most
- Dont mind spending hours without mobility while the car recharges
- Either never has to deal with emergencies or has a "normal" car to rely on (which makes the taxing saving meaningless as you would have to tax both)
- Has no allusions or aspirations to performance, quality (compared to a used Jag XF for instance), style, personal statement etc


Granted given all those compromises you likely will save money, but dont make out like its a free lunch. I still fail to see how you think this is an improvement other than being a money saving venture. There are loads of cars as quiet, infact most new cars are too quiet. There certainly are cars with much higher performance too.

Its cheapness at the cost of nearly everything that makes cars great. I think they have a place as the secondary car many close subarbs or urban families (like the VW Beetle in 1950s USA), but as a second tier option they arent a primetime option "for most people" IMO.

dar83

Well that's the reason I was asking, I just wanted to know what your previous experience was other than the Prius, for reference sake.

I also feel that the notion you have about the instant torque and how great it accelerates etc... Would be fairly short lived when you realise to get anywhere near the 75-85mile range of it, you won't be putting the foot down nearly as much as you'd want.

Another thing that I know personally I would miss terribly is the engine sound. Nothing like a lovely engine roar when you're pushing it a little, not to mention a lovely idle rumble. I just couldn't give that up, so I'll be one of those people driving a petrol engined car as long as I can.

mickdw

Mad_Lad wrote: »

Great get a gs 450 h I bet you wouldn't pay for the fuel over 25000 miles a year.

I plan 25000 miles a year and that's a non runner ?

Ive ran an Audi TT doing 25k miles a year which would gave been returning less mpg than a gs hybrid. I got a loan of a gs off lexus as I was considering one. Didnt like a few things about the interior so didnt bite. I got about 28 mpg from the lexus mixed driving over a few days.

eringobragh

eringobragh wrote: »

I meant the €500 p.a bill for the Prius Maintenance...whats the breakdown there?

Mostly labour !

Oil and filter every 10K miles and the usual.

They will charge me a lot more for gearbox oil change and coolant as seemingly it takes a long time for the coolant change because it's a pain to bleed. That needs to be done around 160,000 kms. But should last another 160,000 kms.

I did the last 2 oil and filter changes myself. Since the hybrid warranty is soon to expire I don't care any more and it's not going to effect resale value at this point. @135,000 kms.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

................

Not a saving but that money would pay back the leaf over the 60 mpg Prius at 25k miles a year over 5 years. Not bad.
........................................................................................................ But I need a charger in work before I could make the decision oh and also to be made permanent, I'm due to hear back about that soon.

If electric is the future of motoring then I want it !

Considering your sums and how the Leaf impressed you I do hope the job and charger fall into place for you so you can get one

monkeysnapper

I always believe the people that knock something are the people that haven't even tried it in the first place.

I was looking for a mpv in my local Nissan garage and I thought , " I know lets take that milk float for a test drive that I've heard so much about while I'm here"

I was blown away. The cars bloody brilliant, I do think they need to work on the outside styling . I have to say folks it's been a hell of a long time since I was sold on something. I left that garage thinking, how can I get my hands on one of these.

Granted I don't have one and I think in about 5 years well all be driving em .

I also agree with the op, when you've taken one of these beauty's for a test drive you really can see the end of the diesels and petrols.

I was made redundant last feb but found a job in April, give me another year or so to get on top of things financially and I'm going to just go out and buy one and start knocking pedestrians over on a daily basis .

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yeah... Im still thinking you have a very limited pool of cars you are comparing to (none of which are likely anything but Paddy spec commuters) and have EV goggles still on! You say it shows how "dated" ICE is by comparison (an oxymoron as pointed out previously, they are effectively the sane century old vintage technology wise) but limited range, low average speed, 100s of times slower to "refuel", high weight and low performance describe the Leaf you just drove too.

I'm comparing it to what it is and that's a normal car with a high spec. It's not a high performance electric vehicle, it isn't meant to be. That's what the Tesla model S is for.

It shows how dated normal cars are in the way the power is delivered.

I'm not saying normal cars are bad at all. But if I had a choice it would be the Leaf, my brother loved it though he admitted he wouldn't buy one because it's not an Audi.

Matt Simis wrote: »

You think someone would be mad to spend 27k on a "normal" car... but you really mean:

- Only look at new cars and ignore the world of vastly superior used cars (its like recycling)

Superior, how so ?

Matt Simis wrote: »

- Work and live beside semi-state supplied charging points

You live all around petrol stations, and you have a growing number of charge points installed already. You even got electricity in your home :-)

Matt Simis wrote: »

- Live within the maximum range while stricktly averaging 100kph at most

Depends on the distance you want to travel. IF you want to regularly go above speed limits then you might want a different car. My commute involves 90% 80-110 kph

Matt Simis wrote: »

- Dont mind spending hours without mobility while the car recharges

30 mins from 0-80% but you will never arrive at 0 just like you don't fill an empty tank.

Gen II Leaf is rumored to have 10 min charging, they already have it it's just a matter of field testing.

Matt Simis wrote: »

- Either never has to deal with emergencies or has a "normal" car to rely on (which makes the taxing saving meaningless as you would have to tax both)

Well if that were to happen we do have 2 cars because we need them, so that doesn't defeat the purpose, My GF drives a 2.0L petrol CRV and I love it, I would benefit most from having the Leaf because I drive the most, she gets 30 mpg max but petrol costs around 20 Euro a week so the costs are more than affordable.

But you could go out and your normal car won't start, if you come home you are not likely to need to go out straight away and 3 hours or less will most likely be all you need.

Matt Simis wrote: »

- Has no allusions or aspirations to performance, quality (compared to a used Jag XF for instance), style, personal statement etc

I'm not interested in high performance cars because of the miles I do. It makes it too expensive.

Oh don't get me wrong the interior quality of the new golf is better than the leaf, I don't deny that nor tried to. But the Leaf is not a bad place to sit at all.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Granted given all those compromises you likely will save money, but dont make out like its a free lunch. I still fail to see how you think this is an improvement other than being a money saving venture. There are loads of cars as quiet, infact most new cars are too quiet. There certainly are cars with much higher performance too.

No compromise to me matt, When the leaf costs as much as a jag or A6 or whatever then you can compare it to the luxury brands, The Leaf is not nor was not meant to compete with the luxury brands.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Its cheapness at the cost of nearly everything that makes cars great. I think they have a place as the secondary car many close subarbs or urban families (like the VW Beetle in 1950s USA), but as a second tier option they arent a primetime option "for most people" IMO.

People don't sit down and do the sums, but when they realise that the Leaf has enough range and when the infrastructure improves there won't be any need not to consider the Leaf. Most people want a sensible car not high performance car they can only drive at the weekend because it costs so much to fuel.

I didn't say it was suitable for everyone.

People told me I was mad for getting the Prius but I proved them wrong the prius is a very reliable practical car that I can easily get 60-64 mpg. It does what it's designed to do and so does the Leaf.

monkeysnapper

monkeysnapper wrote: »

..............

............ I think in about 5 years well all be driving em .

.......... .

Will we f*** :pac:

monkeysnapper

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I always believe the people that knock something are the people that haven't even tried it in the first place.

I was looking for a mpv in my local Nissan garage and I thought , " I know lets take that milk float for a test drive that I've heard so much about while I'm here"

I was blown away. The cars bloody brilliant, I do think they need to work on the outside styling . I have to say folks it's been a hell of a long time since I was sold on something. I left that garage thinking, how can I get my hands on one of these.

Granted I don't have one and I think in about 5 years well all be driving em .

I also agree with the op, when you've taken one of these beauty's for a test drive you really can see the end of the diesels and petrols.

I was made redundant last feb but found a job in April, give me another year or so to get on top of things financially and I'm going to just go out and buy one and start knocking pedestrians over on a daily basis .

I think the more people that drive them the more others will follow, when people say that plugging it in wasn't the big problem everyone made it out to be. Once more chargers go in that's all people need. not a big expensive heavy 300 mile battery that you will only need 100 miles a day.

BY the way Gen II Leaf in 2015 is supposed to have more range.

Oh and that bloody range estimator in the Leaf is annoying, they call guess o meter or gom in the leaf community. basically when I hit the a/c the range dropped 40 kms and jumped back up when I turned it off.

They have changed it in the updated version coming in a few months so that it displays the % and not kms remaining.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Will we f*** :pac:

You know you want one.

At least go test one.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

............

At least go test one.

To be honest I'd never waste a salesman's time like that
Would like a spin in one alright though but have no intention of buying one, I've mentioned in the past on here if there was an electric MX5/MR2 type thing for €25k ish I'd be tempted alright
I do like the primitive stuff though :pac:

monkeysnapper

RoverJames wrote: »

Will we f*** :pac:

Sorry there old chap , let me put it another way , In 5 years when they iron out a few things and reduce the price a small bit there's no reason why people that don't want to live in the dark ages have to drive a car that you have to stand out in the wind and rain filling it up while the guy who lives next door to you is having 5 mins extra in his bed in the morning making love to his other half .

Will we **** you say......

Not you my friend

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Considering your sums and how the Leaf impressed you I do hope the job and charger fall into place for you so you can get one

Cheers Roverjames, I hope so too. If they don't make me permanent they will just keep me as I am and I couldn't get a loan or finance for a bicycle unless I'm permanent.

By the way I neglected to include electric costs of 2000 Euro's over the 5 years. :pac:

So the saving would be 19000 so with trade in I'd have to pay 2.5K to change to a new car. not bad.

Of if I can charge in work that would probably drop to 500 as I would mostly charge there.

They said they would most likely allow me to charge for free because of the building consumption of 14 million watts soon to be 30 million watts. It wouldn't be noticeable.

monkeysnapper

monkeysnapper wrote: »

............. there's no reason why people that don't want to live in the dark ages have to drive a car that you have to stand out in the wind and rain filling it up.................

Many people will prefer to spend their money on petrol/diesel and motor tax etc on internal combustion cars rather than depreciation on electric ones

Much like these days, of the majority of motorists who drive pre 08 cars lots of us are quite happy to do so as we prefer to, preference is reason enough imo.

I don't know anyone who spends 5 mins every morning getting petrol/diesel btw.

Fair play to your neighbour if he's married to something he wants to ride every morning :pac:

Matt Simis

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't say it was suitable for everyone.

No but you almost say that, you state its pefect for most people and its a huge leap from ICE cars. I truely dont see either of those points being correct. The problem with EV adoption isnt that people are stupid and dont do their sums, its that there comes a point of diminishing returns where they accept that the cost to run a modern 2.0TDI (a "normal car") is X and while an EV would be cheaper, the just dont want to put up with short coming after shortcoming and the crazy crap you just swallow up, fitting yourlife around the EV mantra.

The fact you are quoting potentially only half an hour of twiddling thumbs to get just 80% of an already diabolical to begin with range means you are pretty much missing the point here or just looking the other way. That type of rubbish performance (and its just one example of several) isnt acceptable to me or most people, no matter how free/super cheap it is, thats crap. Thats a crap "feature" of the Leaf (and the rest), thats not progress, its downgrading. If the "dark ages" cars gets 1000km on a "charge" of solar powered fuel (ie mineral based petro, trace it back and all energy sources lead to the sun), takes 3min to fuel every forthnight, then where the hell do you think that places EVs... cos its not better, its worse. Whats the slur for pre-dark ages?


They are not a good fit for all or most people, they are a decent secondary option for a some people and a "workable" primary option for the minority dedicated enthusiast (ie you and the other guy who needs to step up his fanboi'ism in 2013)

monkeysnapper

RoverJames wrote: »

Fair play to your neighbour if he's married to something he wants to ride every morning :pac:

Excuse me I said other half, I don't know a married person that gets up to them kind of things .

dar83

dar83 wrote: »

I also feel that the notion you have about the instant torque and how great it accelerates etc... Would be fairly short lived when you realise to get anywhere near the 75-85mile range of it, you won't be putting the foot down nearly as much as you'd want.

That is very true, but the same can be said for any normal car that the harder you drive it the more you pay for fuel, it just so happens that the cost of electricity is a fraction of petrol.

If I get a charger in work I can use all that torque as much as I want.

dar83 wrote: »

Another thing that I know personally I would miss terribly is the engine sound. Nothing like a lovely engine roar when you're pushing it a little, not to mention a lovely idle rumble. I just couldn't give that up, so I'll be one of those people driving a petrol engined car as long as I can.

Yes there is nothing like a good sounding engine, but that's not important to me. Different strokes for different folks.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

To be honest I'd never waste a salesman's time like that
Would like a spin in one alright though but have no intention of buying one, I've mentioned in the past on here if there was an electric MX5/MR2 type thing for €25k ish I'd be tempted alright
I do like the primitive stuff though :pac:

I'm sure in a few years there will be a lot more choice, those that drive the tesla model S say the experience is amazing, I can only dream.

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

No but you almost say that, you state its pefect for most people and its a huge leap from ICE cars. I truely dont see either of those points being correct. The problem with EV adoption isnt that people are stupid and dont do their sums, its that there comes a point of diminishing returns where they accept that the cost to run a modern 2.0TDI (a "normal car") is X and while an EV would be cheaper, the just dont want to put up with short coming after shortcoming and the crazy crap you just swallow up, fitting yourlife around the EV mantra.

The fact you are quoting potentially only half an hour of twiddling thumbs to get just 80% of an already diabolical to begin with range means you are pretty much missing the point here or just looking the other way. That type of rubbish performance (and its just one example of several) isnt acceptable to me or most people, no matter how free/super cheap it is, thats crap. Thats a crap "feature" of the Leaf (and the rest), thats not progress, its downgrading. If the "dark ages" cars gets 1000km on a "charge" of solar powered fuel (ie mineral based petro, trace it back and all energy sources lead to the sun), takes 3min to fuel every forthnight, then where the hell do you think that places EVs... cos its not better, its worse. Whats the slur for pre-dark ages?


They are not a good fit for all or most people, they are a decent secondary option for a some people and a "workable" primary option for the minority dedicated enthusiast (ie you and the other guy who needs to step up his fanboi'ism in 2013)

Matt you miss the point, most people drive within range of the leaf every day, and some would only need to charge once a week.

I do feel that even if they had 300 mile range you would find reason to keep the ice alive.

I don't think that if I could do 25000 miles a year in a Leaf as being in the dark ages.

If people want to drive older and older ice cars because tax is getting too high and spend all the money on petrol that's fine by me. In fact I recommend LPG for anyone whom electric range is not suitable for or they don't want them. And I have openly recommended LPG here on boards. Just a shame I never discovered it years ago.

What I would love to see is the elimination of diesel engines because of health reasons and convert commercial vehicles to LPG, diesel is bad for health and the E.U made a huge mistake by promoting it because of the idea that Co2 is the biggest threat to mankind. Co2 won't give you heart disease or cancer and it certainly won't kill you unless you get a co2 tank and fill a room with it.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Many people will prefer to spend their money on petrol/diesel and motor tax etc on internal combustion cars rather than depreciation on electric ones

Much like these days, of the majority of motorists who drive pre 08 cars lots of us are quite happy to do so as we prefer to, preference is reason enough imo.

I don't know anyone who spends 5 mins every morning getting petrol/diesel btw.

Fair play to your neighbour if he's married to something he wants to ride every morning :pac:

Well if people enjoy motoring I don't see why they drive diesel cars ?

We all know what I think about diesel.

As I said before a 30 mpg car I.E Golf GTI DSG is cheaper to run on LPG at 80C/L than a 50 mpg diesel !

What would you rather drive ? 2.0L GTI DSG or Diesel 2.0L TDI ?

With all the problems with diesel these days I would hardly recommend them.

MuppetCheck

Over 125k miles excluding tyres I would be very impressed if maintenance was only €500. Suspension wears just like any other car so I think it will be more.

But then again a normal car will be the same.

Personally it wouldn't suit my commute or even as a main car for longer spins. And the styling is a painfully bland. But if the sums add up otherwise it makes sense.

I also think a small ish car like a Leaf couldn't match the comfort or refinement of a larger car either, and engine noise is only a small element of this.

cgarrad

Petrol is going the way of the dodo.

End of....

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Over 125k miles excluding tyres I would be very impressed if maintenance was only €500. Suspension wears just like any other car so I think it will be more.

But then again a normal car will be the same.

Personally it wouldn't suit my commute or even as a main car for longer spins. And the styling is a painfully bland. But if the sums add up otherwise it makes sense.

I also think a small ish car like a Leaf couldn't match the comfort or refinement of a larger car either, and engine noise is only a small element of this.

The car was impressively quiet not just the lack of engine noise, but more so because of the lack of it. I didn't notice I was doing 100 kph.

Not as nice inside as my brothers A6 absolutely not, but the Leaf is half the price.

Maybe it won't suit you needs now but maybe the new one in 2015 will.

One thing for sure they will make cracking 2nd hand buys in 5 or 6 years and the battery costs will be a lot cheaper then. And who knows Nissan or the ESB may even buy the old one.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if people enjoy motoring I don't see why they drive diesel cars ?

We all know what I think about diesel.

As I said before a 30 mpg car I.E Golf GTI DSG is cheaper to run on LPG at 80C/L than a 50 mpg diesel !

What would you rather drive ? 2.0L GTI DSG or Diesel 2.0L TDI ?

With all the problems with diesel these days I would hardly recommend them.

In fairness to diesels many of them can be a nice drive, oodles of torque from below 2000rpm in many of them (I know EVs have torque across the range), there are very decent diesels out there for quite small money, e39 530d for example. Small purchase cost and the mpg makes up for the high motor tax for many people.

I used to enjoy driving my W124 250d and it was slow as f*** with very little torque, it was a lovely drive though.

Lots of people really love the diesel driving experience, the likes of a quattro A5 is a nice spin.


I'd sooner drive a GTi over the TDi of course but 4 cylinders don't really appeal to me so I can't see myself driving either over the next few years, one never knows what's around the corner though.

For all the problems there are many people running diesels with little or no issues, no doubt there are issues with EVs too

MuppetCheck

If it can do 300km without a charger then maybe it will. Until then I will live with 900km range. What are the specs of the 2015 model?

Another thing, although I drive a diesel mostly, I think I would miss the engagement of driving a combustion engine.

cgarrad

cgarrad wrote: »

Petrol is going the way of the dodo.

..

Everything is

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

If it can do 300km without a charger then maybe it will. Until then I will live with 900km range. What are the specs of the 2015 model?

Another thing, although I drive a diesel mostly, I think I would miss the engagement of driving a combustion engine.

900 kms range is great but how many kms do you do in a week ?

No one knows the specs as it's 2 years away but Nissan have stated a new battery is on the way, they did not say if it means more range or same range with a smaller cheaper battery.

I don't think any manufacturer will release much details about a car 2 years before it goes on sale. That would damage sales because every new generation is always better.

MuppetCheck

Deleted User wrote: »

900 kms range is great but how many kms do you do in a week ?

No one knows the specs as it's 2 years away but Nissan have stated a new battery is on the way, they did not say if it means more range or same range with a smaller cheaper battery.

I don't think any manufacturer will release much details about a car 2 years before it goes on sale. That would damage sales because every new generation is always better.

One week it could be 700, the next about 1500. So on average 1000-1100km. There is a mix of a short and long commute as it's two locations and neither are going to put a charging station in and that's for definite!

I don't think the 2015 model would be of benefit either unless they can do a 300km range and make it look normal. At the moment it just looks like a Tiida that was melted in front of the fire.

Wicklowandy

I dont think anyone will realise much savings from being an early adopter of new technology; whats the resale of a leaf with a 100 mile range in 2015 when the next generation can do 300+.

And when the battery needs to be replaced in 5-7 years, what'll that cost? Maybe a diesel will require money spending as it ages, but dont believe the hype that an electric wont.

Eric Cartman

Op , you say your doing 25,000 miles a year , the leaf does 100 miles on a charge (probably less but lets just say) so thats 250 full charges a year , even with the new 6kw charger thats 4 hours a charge , 1000 hours , or 41.6 days total charging time per year.

So you have a car that has to be "off the road" refuelling for over a month every year. Considering your doing 25,000 miles a year , I would assume some of these trips will be long (if 25k miles a year is just your commute , get another house first) , so a bit of your charging will be done at petrol stations / town street points, thats a lot of waiting around , until the tech vastly improves, anyone doing over 10,000 miles a year shouldnt really consider a leaf

Zubeneschamali

For me, the problem with the Leaf is that the low running costs are most useful to the high mileage driver in the house (me), but the pathetic range rules it out completely.

The short range wouldn't be an issue for Herself, but her small miles mean the low fuel costs are irrelevant, and it isn't going to beat her Mini on looks or fun.