Test drove A Nissan Leaf Today !

monkeysnapper

RoverJames wrote: »

Will we f*** :pac:

Sorry there old chap , let me put it another way , In 5 years when they iron out a few things and reduce the price a small bit there's no reason why people that don't want to live in the dark ages have to drive a car that you have to stand out in the wind and rain filling it up while the guy who lives next door to you is having 5 mins extra in his bed in the morning making love to his other half .

Will we **** you say......

Not you my friend

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Considering your sums and how the Leaf impressed you I do hope the job and charger fall into place for you so you can get one

Cheers Roverjames, I hope so too. If they don't make me permanent they will just keep me as I am and I couldn't get a loan or finance for a bicycle unless I'm permanent.

By the way I neglected to include electric costs of 2000 Euro's over the 5 years. :pac:

So the saving would be 19000 so with trade in I'd have to pay 2.5K to change to a new car. not bad.

Of if I can charge in work that would probably drop to 500 as I would mostly charge there.

They said they would most likely allow me to charge for free because of the building consumption of 14 million watts soon to be 30 million watts. It wouldn't be noticeable.

monkeysnapper

monkeysnapper wrote: »

............. there's no reason why people that don't want to live in the dark ages have to drive a car that you have to stand out in the wind and rain filling it up.................

Many people will prefer to spend their money on petrol/diesel and motor tax etc on internal combustion cars rather than depreciation on electric ones

Much like these days, of the majority of motorists who drive pre 08 cars lots of us are quite happy to do so as we prefer to, preference is reason enough imo.

I don't know anyone who spends 5 mins every morning getting petrol/diesel btw.

Fair play to your neighbour if he's married to something he wants to ride every morning :pac:

Matt Simis

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't say it was suitable for everyone.

No but you almost say that, you state its pefect for most people and its a huge leap from ICE cars. I truely dont see either of those points being correct. The problem with EV adoption isnt that people are stupid and dont do their sums, its that there comes a point of diminishing returns where they accept that the cost to run a modern 2.0TDI (a "normal car") is X and while an EV would be cheaper, the just dont want to put up with short coming after shortcoming and the crazy crap you just swallow up, fitting yourlife around the EV mantra.

The fact you are quoting potentially only half an hour of twiddling thumbs to get just 80% of an already diabolical to begin with range means you are pretty much missing the point here or just looking the other way. That type of rubbish performance (and its just one example of several) isnt acceptable to me or most people, no matter how free/super cheap it is, thats crap. Thats a crap "feature" of the Leaf (and the rest), thats not progress, its downgrading. If the "dark ages" cars gets 1000km on a "charge" of solar powered fuel (ie mineral based petro, trace it back and all energy sources lead to the sun), takes 3min to fuel every forthnight, then where the hell do you think that places EVs... cos its not better, its worse. Whats the slur for pre-dark ages?


They are not a good fit for all or most people, they are a decent secondary option for a some people and a "workable" primary option for the minority dedicated enthusiast (ie you and the other guy who needs to step up his fanboi'ism in 2013)

monkeysnapper

RoverJames wrote: »

Fair play to your neighbour if he's married to something he wants to ride every morning :pac:

Excuse me I said other half, I don't know a married person that gets up to them kind of things .

dar83

dar83 wrote: »

I also feel that the notion you have about the instant torque and how great it accelerates etc... Would be fairly short lived when you realise to get anywhere near the 75-85mile range of it, you won't be putting the foot down nearly as much as you'd want.

That is very true, but the same can be said for any normal car that the harder you drive it the more you pay for fuel, it just so happens that the cost of electricity is a fraction of petrol.

If I get a charger in work I can use all that torque as much as I want.

dar83 wrote: »

Another thing that I know personally I would miss terribly is the engine sound. Nothing like a lovely engine roar when you're pushing it a little, not to mention a lovely idle rumble. I just couldn't give that up, so I'll be one of those people driving a petrol engined car as long as I can.

Yes there is nothing like a good sounding engine, but that's not important to me. Different strokes for different folks.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

To be honest I'd never waste a salesman's time like that
Would like a spin in one alright though but have no intention of buying one, I've mentioned in the past on here if there was an electric MX5/MR2 type thing for €25k ish I'd be tempted alright
I do like the primitive stuff though :pac:

I'm sure in a few years there will be a lot more choice, those that drive the tesla model S say the experience is amazing, I can only dream.

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

No but you almost say that, you state its pefect for most people and its a huge leap from ICE cars. I truely dont see either of those points being correct. The problem with EV adoption isnt that people are stupid and dont do their sums, its that there comes a point of diminishing returns where they accept that the cost to run a modern 2.0TDI (a "normal car") is X and while an EV would be cheaper, the just dont want to put up with short coming after shortcoming and the crazy crap you just swallow up, fitting yourlife around the EV mantra.

The fact you are quoting potentially only half an hour of twiddling thumbs to get just 80% of an already diabolical to begin with range means you are pretty much missing the point here or just looking the other way. That type of rubbish performance (and its just one example of several) isnt acceptable to me or most people, no matter how free/super cheap it is, thats crap. Thats a crap "feature" of the Leaf (and the rest), thats not progress, its downgrading. If the "dark ages" cars gets 1000km on a "charge" of solar powered fuel (ie mineral based petro, trace it back and all energy sources lead to the sun), takes 3min to fuel every forthnight, then where the hell do you think that places EVs... cos its not better, its worse. Whats the slur for pre-dark ages?


They are not a good fit for all or most people, they are a decent secondary option for a some people and a "workable" primary option for the minority dedicated enthusiast (ie you and the other guy who needs to step up his fanboi'ism in 2013)

Matt you miss the point, most people drive within range of the leaf every day, and some would only need to charge once a week.

I do feel that even if they had 300 mile range you would find reason to keep the ice alive.

I don't think that if I could do 25000 miles a year in a Leaf as being in the dark ages.

If people want to drive older and older ice cars because tax is getting too high and spend all the money on petrol that's fine by me. In fact I recommend LPG for anyone whom electric range is not suitable for or they don't want them. And I have openly recommended LPG here on boards. Just a shame I never discovered it years ago.

What I would love to see is the elimination of diesel engines because of health reasons and convert commercial vehicles to LPG, diesel is bad for health and the E.U made a huge mistake by promoting it because of the idea that Co2 is the biggest threat to mankind. Co2 won't give you heart disease or cancer and it certainly won't kill you unless you get a co2 tank and fill a room with it.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Many people will prefer to spend their money on petrol/diesel and motor tax etc on internal combustion cars rather than depreciation on electric ones

Much like these days, of the majority of motorists who drive pre 08 cars lots of us are quite happy to do so as we prefer to, preference is reason enough imo.

I don't know anyone who spends 5 mins every morning getting petrol/diesel btw.

Fair play to your neighbour if he's married to something he wants to ride every morning :pac:

Well if people enjoy motoring I don't see why they drive diesel cars ?

We all know what I think about diesel.

As I said before a 30 mpg car I.E Golf GTI DSG is cheaper to run on LPG at 80C/L than a 50 mpg diesel !

What would you rather drive ? 2.0L GTI DSG or Diesel 2.0L TDI ?

With all the problems with diesel these days I would hardly recommend them.

MuppetCheck

Over 125k miles excluding tyres I would be very impressed if maintenance was only €500. Suspension wears just like any other car so I think it will be more.

But then again a normal car will be the same.

Personally it wouldn't suit my commute or even as a main car for longer spins. And the styling is a painfully bland. But if the sums add up otherwise it makes sense.

I also think a small ish car like a Leaf couldn't match the comfort or refinement of a larger car either, and engine noise is only a small element of this.

cgarrad

Petrol is going the way of the dodo.

End of....

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Over 125k miles excluding tyres I would be very impressed if maintenance was only €500. Suspension wears just like any other car so I think it will be more.

But then again a normal car will be the same.

Personally it wouldn't suit my commute or even as a main car for longer spins. And the styling is a painfully bland. But if the sums add up otherwise it makes sense.

I also think a small ish car like a Leaf couldn't match the comfort or refinement of a larger car either, and engine noise is only a small element of this.

The car was impressively quiet not just the lack of engine noise, but more so because of the lack of it. I didn't notice I was doing 100 kph.

Not as nice inside as my brothers A6 absolutely not, but the Leaf is half the price.

Maybe it won't suit you needs now but maybe the new one in 2015 will.

One thing for sure they will make cracking 2nd hand buys in 5 or 6 years and the battery costs will be a lot cheaper then. And who knows Nissan or the ESB may even buy the old one.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if people enjoy motoring I don't see why they drive diesel cars ?

We all know what I think about diesel.

As I said before a 30 mpg car I.E Golf GTI DSG is cheaper to run on LPG at 80C/L than a 50 mpg diesel !

What would you rather drive ? 2.0L GTI DSG or Diesel 2.0L TDI ?

With all the problems with diesel these days I would hardly recommend them.

In fairness to diesels many of them can be a nice drive, oodles of torque from below 2000rpm in many of them (I know EVs have torque across the range), there are very decent diesels out there for quite small money, e39 530d for example. Small purchase cost and the mpg makes up for the high motor tax for many people.

I used to enjoy driving my W124 250d and it was slow as f*** with very little torque, it was a lovely drive though.

Lots of people really love the diesel driving experience, the likes of a quattro A5 is a nice spin.


I'd sooner drive a GTi over the TDi of course but 4 cylinders don't really appeal to me so I can't see myself driving either over the next few years, one never knows what's around the corner though.

For all the problems there are many people running diesels with little or no issues, no doubt there are issues with EVs too

MuppetCheck

If it can do 300km without a charger then maybe it will. Until then I will live with 900km range. What are the specs of the 2015 model?

Another thing, although I drive a diesel mostly, I think I would miss the engagement of driving a combustion engine.

cgarrad

cgarrad wrote: »

Petrol is going the way of the dodo.

..

Everything is

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

If it can do 300km without a charger then maybe it will. Until then I will live with 900km range. What are the specs of the 2015 model?

Another thing, although I drive a diesel mostly, I think I would miss the engagement of driving a combustion engine.

900 kms range is great but how many kms do you do in a week ?

No one knows the specs as it's 2 years away but Nissan have stated a new battery is on the way, they did not say if it means more range or same range with a smaller cheaper battery.

I don't think any manufacturer will release much details about a car 2 years before it goes on sale. That would damage sales because every new generation is always better.

MuppetCheck

Deleted User wrote: »

900 kms range is great but how many kms do you do in a week ?

No one knows the specs as it's 2 years away but Nissan have stated a new battery is on the way, they did not say if it means more range or same range with a smaller cheaper battery.

I don't think any manufacturer will release much details about a car 2 years before it goes on sale. That would damage sales because every new generation is always better.

One week it could be 700, the next about 1500. So on average 1000-1100km. There is a mix of a short and long commute as it's two locations and neither are going to put a charging station in and that's for definite!

I don't think the 2015 model would be of benefit either unless they can do a 300km range and make it look normal. At the moment it just looks like a Tiida that was melted in front of the fire.

Wicklowandy

I dont think anyone will realise much savings from being an early adopter of new technology; whats the resale of a leaf with a 100 mile range in 2015 when the next generation can do 300+.

And when the battery needs to be replaced in 5-7 years, what'll that cost? Maybe a diesel will require money spending as it ages, but dont believe the hype that an electric wont.

Eric Cartman

Op , you say your doing 25,000 miles a year , the leaf does 100 miles on a charge (probably less but lets just say) so thats 250 full charges a year , even with the new 6kw charger thats 4 hours a charge , 1000 hours , or 41.6 days total charging time per year.

So you have a car that has to be "off the road" refuelling for over a month every year. Considering your doing 25,000 miles a year , I would assume some of these trips will be long (if 25k miles a year is just your commute , get another house first) , so a bit of your charging will be done at petrol stations / town street points, thats a lot of waiting around , until the tech vastly improves, anyone doing over 10,000 miles a year shouldnt really consider a leaf

Zubeneschamali

For me, the problem with the Leaf is that the low running costs are most useful to the high mileage driver in the house (me), but the pathetic range rules it out completely.

The short range wouldn't be an issue for Herself, but her small miles mean the low fuel costs are irrelevant, and it isn't going to beat her Mini on looks or fun.

Stallingrad

Keep in mind your Leaf's value will drop like a stone as new models come out with ever better range and performance. Nissan are at this already. These are not like conventional cars where new models bring small improvements. Early adopters beware.

Wicklowandy

Wicklowandy wrote: »

I dont think anyone will realise much savings from being an early adopter of new technology; whats the resale of a leaf with a 100 mile range in 2015 when the next generation can do 300+.

And when the battery needs to be replaced in 5-7 years, what'll that cost? Maybe a diesel will require money spending as it ages, but dont believe the hype that an electric wont.

The Leaf will require battery maintenance as it ages, but if you can get a new pack in there you are good to go for another 150-200K miles. If you can put in the latest technology even better.

As I said If I can charge in work then it will be 150-000 -200,000 miles before the reduced range would effect me, if charging only at home then that could be a problem after the 100,000 miles. Certainly there are some leafs with over 50k miles with no noticeable loss of range but that could also mean they don't drive far enough to notice.

The cost in 5-7 years is unknown but in 5-7 years it won't have any less value than most cars that old with over 100K miles. The battery will be valuable and if it came to it I would remove it myself and sell it on e-bay as storage for renewable energy. By then the ESB might even buy it to store wind energy.

I can choose to renew the battery and have a very cheap car for another 150-200K miles.

If people are worried and do low enough miles then the the Zoe is the best option as you lease the battery depending on the mileage you do they have different packages available and once the battery reaches 70% capacity it will be replaced. The new owner will take a lease out on the same battery if it has 70+ % remaining capacity.

Don't believe the Leaf in 2015 will have 300 mile range because it isn't necessary and Nissan know it isn't necessary to carry around a big heavy expensive battery. More important is a faster charging infrastructure.

They may have 30 kw/hrs for a real 100 miles range but that will probably be about it.

Hopefully the updated Leaf in the spring will have more winter range with the new heater.

Hopefully Nissan will announce soon the replacement costs of the battery, they have stated that each of the 48 modules can be replaced rather than the whole pack.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Op , you say your doing 25,000 miles a year , the leaf does 100 miles on a charge (probably less but lets just say) so thats 250 full charges a year , even with the new 6kw charger thats 4 hours a charge , 1000 hours , or 41.6 days total charging time per year.

3.5 hours to charge as you only use 21 kw/hrs of 24. And that's charging from 0 which no one will be doing really. But if I had to charge at work, I don't care how long it took as I would be in work.

When I get home, I won't be going out anywhere so quick as to be stuck I'll get home and I'll still have 30 or so miles left, or after 1.5 hrs charge -2 max it's fully charged. I don't think I will ever need to leave that quickly after work to go 30+ miles away.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So you have a car that has to be "off the road" refuelling for over a month every year. Considering your doing 25,000 miles a year , I would assume some of these trips will be long (if 25k miles a year is just your commute , get another house first) , so a bit of your charging will be done at petrol stations / town street points, thats a lot of waiting around , until the tech vastly improves, anyone doing over 10,000 miles a year shouldnt really consider a leaf

You miss a crucial point, the charging is being done while you don't need to use the car, or if you absolutely must you can quick charge for 5-10 mins or 30 mins from an empty to 80% charge.

I hope I can get one, I may even start a blog with quick daily updates to show people how living with an E.V is really like.

Sesshoumaru

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Good read, couple of questions,

1. Room in the car, what would it compare to? Focus/Golf or something bigger?

2. Range, did the sales person give any indication of range under a full load?

http://goo.gl/maps/tTUQb

I did this trip coming back from Northern Ireland. My wife and myself sitting in the front and our then 2 kids sitting in the back. We brought the kids to the Planetarium in Armagh and then loaded up with shopping from Sainsbury's afterwards. The kids are 2 and 5 years old, so they have booster seats and we have changing bag, buggy and other normal stuff parents bring along in cars. I would have kept it around 90kph on the N2. It was a relatively mild day with showers of rain, so wipers and climate control were used. This is the official charge point location map:

http://goo.gl/maps/ovJaz

I took the charge point I parked at in Armagh as the start point and the fast charger in Glasnevin as the end point. I was on my last bar (12 in total) when I arrived at Glasnevin Topaz.

I have done a little longer with equal load before. Coming back from a weekend away in Cork (wildlife park there is nice for kids) I managed 157 kilometers from Cashel Topaz (fast charged there) to my home in Celbridge. I managed a fairly steady 98 kph with cruise control for that one. But TBH I got a draft from a big truck pretty much the whole way to the Straffan exit on the M7. Of course I maintained a safe distance doing so, but that range at that speed and with that load is not normally possible.

We now have a 1 month old newborn and all 3 seats fit in the back and we can carry all we need in terms of buggy and other baby equipment. Hope that helps with the space question.

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For me, the problem with the Leaf is that the low running costs are most useful to the high mileage driver in the house (me), but the pathetic range rules it out completely.

That's why I would be driving the Leaf to do my commute. I fill my Prius once a week I drive roughly 750 kms a week sometimes up to 840.

While I'm in work or in bed the leaf would be charging. 2-3.5 hours is not impractical for me.

If I want to go shopping to Dublin city shopping, around 52 miles each way then I probably would go to red cow Luas. I'm going to need at least 1.5-2 hrs charge so the Leaf will be charged when I come back. As they have charging bays there.

If I drive to the city then there I can park and charge in Qpark on Marlborough street or worst case I can fast charge at topaz newlands Cross at Bewleys on the way home for 10 mins.

So you see how the miles can mount up ?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The short range wouldn't be an issue for Herself, but her small miles mean the low fuel costs are irrelevant, and it isn't going to beat her Mini on looks or fun.

The low miles My GF do means she can drive an old CRV and pay 20 quid a week on petrol. I actually like driving it on our crap Kildare roads.

Still , anyone buying a new car should take a Leaf for a test drive.

Once the Leaf or any e.v becomes available 2nd hand for decent money then it should attract a lot more people.

The Golf E.V is coming in 2014.

Sesshoumaru

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For me, the problem with the Leaf is that the low running costs are most useful to the high mileage driver in the house (me), but the pathetic range rules it out completely.

We bought ours in April 2011 and are now just at the 40,000 kilometer mark. Not doing so much mileage lately since my wife is on maternity leave and I use the motorcycle for my commute. But that's not low mileage.

Dartz

If every petrol station was required to have a BEV charging point by law, the charging points between different BEV's were actually compatible, and maybe the garage charged the cost of electricity plus a 'fair' markup to make it worth their while.... Electric cars might actually take off.

Besides, it's an excuse to go inside and get a breakfast roll or something, so you have ancillary markets like that. People have a quick lunch while waiting for the car to charge.

Obesity would skyrocket.

It might even make them money if they used local renewable energies to provide the power. That roof area on top of the forecourt would be great for a reasonably decent-sized Solar PV array. Though that in itself is a big investment.


Had a chance to get a test drive myself last year... was offered one, but never really got around to going ahead with it. Mildly annoyed that I missed out.

monkeysnapper

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

We bought ours in April 2011 and are now just at the 40,000 kilometer mark. Not doing so much mileage lately since my wife is on maternity leave and I use the motorcycle for my commute. But that's not low mileage.

Are you still getting same milege out of a full charge as you did when you bought it.?:)

Sesshoumaru

monkeysnapper wrote: »

Are you still getting same milege out of a full charge as you did when you bought it.?:)

We haven't noticed any drop in range. At the last service the battery report still showed full capacity as well. It won't be long now until we reach our second service, I'll definitely share the battery report and mileage we've covered at that point.

The biggest drain on range in winter is doing lots of short journeys and constantly heating the car from battery power. The heating system will use about 4.5 kilowatts for the first few minutes until the car is up to temperature and then drop down to 500 watts to 1.5 kilowatts depending on outside temperature. You can mitigate that a lot by remotely preheating the car while it's plugged in. This winter we've definitely found we can do this more often as there are a lot more on street chargers. The 2013 Leaf will have heated seats, heated steering wheel and a more efficient air heating system. So it should be much less affected by cold winter weather.

If anyone is interested, I've noticed the range to be most significantly affected by the cold when the temperature drops to 6 degrees Celsius or lower. From about 7 or 8 degrees and up you can see the battery temperature itself is higher and the heating system uses noticeably less power. So when I say cold weather/more power for heating/reduced range I'm talking about 6 degrees Celsius and lower.

monkeysnapper

I was just thinking now so don't everybody start pushing me around calling me dumb ass if you took a loan out to buy one of these leafs ,wouldn't the amount you would have to pay each month be buffered by the saving you'd make not buying fuel .

Mŷ situation
1. I need a car to drive to work and back 50 miles per day and my old car is shot so I need to buy a car anyway.

2. We have a diesel family car to all long hall trips so we have a back up plan.( wife's car)