Can SF transform into a leading party in next 5-10 years?

barney 20v

maccored wrote: »

If SF keep working hard at a public level - as they are now (there are many who will tell you their local SF Councillor works hard) - then their vote will increase. I think thats going to be the defining factor ... are they doing their job at a grassroot level and helping voters in whatever way they can.

I find it interesting people seem to be more concerned about the reputation a party has moreso on the work that they do. If SF pretended to have no links with the north or the IRA - learned to lie constantly through their teeth in other words - then there are those who would suddenly support them. Yet we all are struck with shame when our elected representative lie to us. I really dont get that 'make yourself more presentable and you might get my vote' mindset.

An illegal terrorist/murder campaign can never be "presentable" no matter how many medical cards/dole claims they fix at a local level.

maccored

barney 20v wrote: »

An illegal terrorist/murder campaign can never be "presentable" no matter how many medical cards/dole claims they fix at a local level.

Maybe you missed my point, I dont think its SF who thinks they should be 'presentable'. And you should look up this group called the 'IRA' ... im nearly sure they were the ones doing the campaign thing.

"medical cards/dole claims they fix" ... yeah. Conspiracy forum thataways.

Godge

OCorcrain wrote: »

Anyone who completely dismisses the past and future concept of a United Ireland without regard for the arguments that support the concept itself. An individual who holds disdain for Irish heritage and culture, and are more likely to criticize and berate the people and the island of Ireland for its apparent 'mediocrity'.

Thank you, you have confirmed for me that the use of the phrase "partitionist mentality" reflects a defensive narrow fearful view of Irish identity that rejects the modern world and the many different facets of Irish heritage and culture.

Irish heritage and culture is broadranging. It include planters and the planted, it encompasses a wish for closer relationships with our neighbouring island, it embraces those who are happy and content with the current status quo. It accepts "The Sash" as much as "The Men Behind the Wire" in our musical heritage. Much more than that, it embraces the Rubber Bandits, the Saw Doctors, Thin Lizzy, U2, Horslips etc.

A narrow view of Irish heritage and culture viewed through the prism of unity being the only legitimate expression is a sad, old, tired and narrow ideal unfit for modern Ireland. We have to embrace all aspects of our heritage which now include generations of Southerners for whom the North has little but symbolic meaning.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Normally doesnt take this long for someone to drag up jerry mccabe's ghost and kick it about for their own ends. dont forget to throw in a jean mcconville reference if garda mccabes emotional blackmail doesnt work. so when you say they shouldnt be allowed into government ever does that mean even if the people elect them, cause then youre not a democrat

A few east steps to ensure that Jerry McCabe and Jean McConville are taken out of the equation.

(1) Sinn Fein leadership to admit that the killings of Garda McCabe, Garda Fallon and other members of the security forces were wrong, wrong at the time and wrong now, and that their previous defence of the actions was misguided at best.

(2) Sinn Fein leadership to come clean on those responsible for the murders of gardai and name them. If they really don't have the information, they should call on what is left of the IRA to provide it, and condemn the IRA if they fail to do so.

(3) Sinn Fein leadership to devote their full time and attention to ensuring that every possible stone is overturned to ensure that the bodies of the disappeared (including Jean McConville) are discovered.

(4) Sinn Fein public representatives to enter into the Dail/Seanad/council record full details and history of their involvement with the so-called armed struggle including involvement in the provision of safe housing and the manufacture of bombs and bomb-making equipment.

These simple confidence measures would ensure that the Irish public would be finally convinced that Sinn Fein have left their background of violence behind and are ready to take their place in the ranks of the constitutional parties.

Without those steps, I and I presume others, will retain the right to refer to Jean McConville, Garda McCabe and other victims of SF-supported IRA violence when talking about the current incarnation.

barney 20v

maccored wrote: »

Maybe you missed my point, I dont think its SF who thinks they should be 'presentable'. And you should look up this group called the 'IRA' ... im nearly sure they were the ones doing the campaign thing.

"medical cards/dole claims they fix" ... yeah. Conspiracy forum thataways.

I am more than aware of the ira.... Have you heard of a certain Mr martin Mc Guinness ? Elected sf representative... Former oc in the ira... Although when pressed on this issue his memory gets hazy.

All TD,s fix up peoples local issues such as medical cards/social welfare payments ....no conspiracy theory there, its common knowledge.
And are you really trying to say that sf/ira are/were not the same thing....? Come on ffs...

fasttalkerchat

Godge wrote: »

Without those steps, I and I presume others, will retain the right to refer to Jean McConville, Garda McCabe and other victims of SF-supported IRA violence when talking about the current incarnation.

The two gardaí were interfering with an IRA operation at the time they were killed. Its terrible to see people who were not a target or enemy being killed but such is war. In the Civil war there were 3 gardaí killed and AFAIK no apology from FF.
Jean McConville is a difficult one, from what I believe she was a legitimate target, however, no evidence has appeared since the IRA at the time decided it was better not to admit to killing her.

maccored

barney 20v wrote: »

I am more than aware of the ira.... Have you heard of a certain Mr martin Mc Guinness ? Elected sf representative... Former oc in the ira... Although when pressed on this issue his memory gets hazy.

All TD,s fix up peoples local issues such as medical cards/social welfare payments ....no conspiracy theory there, its common knowledge.
And are you really trying to say that sf/ira are/were not the same thing....? Come on ffs...

eehhh ... no. Did you read my post?

I said sinn feins popularity will depend on how well they serve the public. "All TD,s fix up peoples local issues such as medical cards/social welfare payments" ... I'd love so see something official on that one. Theres no dogs in our street, so I cant ask one.

Nervous Nigel

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The two gardaí were interfering with an IRA operation at the time they were killed.

"an IRA operation"

Sinn Fein/IRA's catch all term for their criminal and subversive activities.

Sinn Fein/IRA will not transform itself into a leading party because their support has already plateaued. They will never appeal to anyone other than hardline Republicans up around the border and lower working class people.

barney 20v

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The two gardaí were interfering with an IRA operation at the time they were killed. Its terrible to see people who were not a target or enemy being killed but such is war. In the Civil war there were 3 gardaí killed and AFAIK no apology from FF.
Jean McConville is a difficult one, from what I believe she was a legitimate target, however, no evidence has appeared since the IRA at the time decided it was better not to admit to killing her.

Imagine, two Gardai actually trying to stop the ira in its illegal activity.... The cheek eh? The cowards shot garda McCabe 3 times and seriously injured another detective .... Let me remind you 50,000 people turned out to the funeral.
The decent people in this state should never let sinn fein into government.

Nervous Nigel

barney 20v wrote: »

Imagine, two Gardai actually trying to stop the ira in its illegal activity.... The cheek eh? The cowards shot garda McCabe 3 times and seriously injured another detective .... Let me remind you 50,000 people turned out to the funeral.
The decent people in this state should never let sinn fein into government.

Calling a bank robbery an IRA operation and accusing Gardai of interfering with same. Incredible stuff.

Criminals cynically wearing a cloak of republicanism 'cause it suits them.

I worry for anyone who votes for these people.

Nuts.

SoulandForm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The two gardaí were interfering with an IRA operation at the time they were killed. Its terrible to see people who were not a target or enemy being killed but such is war. In the Civil war there were 3 gardaí killed and AFAIK no apology from FF.
Jean McConville is a difficult one, from what I believe she was a legitimate target, however, no evidence has appeared since the IRA at the time decided it was better not to admit to killing her.

No money was taken.

The kill/murder/whatever you want to call it was pretty clinical and appeared very targeted.

The revenge for the whole "Heavy Squad" legacy, etc probably.

Godge

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The two gardaí were interfering with an IRA operation at the time they were killed. Its terrible to see people who were not a target or enemy being killed but such is war. In the Civil war there were 3 gardaí killed and AFAIK no apology from FF.
Jean McConville is a difficult one, from what I believe she was a legitimate target, however, no evidence has appeared since the IRA at the time decided it was better not to admit to killing her.

Thank you, you have just made my point for me.

Unless and until, SF make the call that those so-called IRA operations were wrong at the time and wrong in retrospect and should therefore be condemned, they have no right to be considered a constitutional democratic party.

oscarBravo

maccored wrote: »

If SF keep working hard at a public level - as they are now (there are many who will tell you their local SF Councillor works hard) - then their vote will increase.

I keep hearing about how hard SF councillors work, but I'm fuzzy on what it is they actually do?

Not specific to SF reps, but I've always had the impression that TDs and councillors earn respect by "getting things" for people - but what things? If they get them things they're entitled to, then shouldn't they put putting that effort into fixing the system so that it doesn't require the intervention of an elected representative to make sure people get their entitlements? If they get them things they're not entitled to, isn't that basically corruption?

maccored

the local sf councillor and town councillor where Im at both have regular meetings with people in the small offices the local council office I work at. they seem to be the most regular people there when it comes to locals meeting with councillors so I assume they're doing something.

howiya

We had a government minister complaining about a tweet today. Providing they remain in opposition its very possible they could significantly grow their numbers in the Dail

ManMade

oscarBravo wrote: »

I keep hearing about how hard SF councillors work, but I'm fuzzy on what it is they actually do?

Not specific to SF reps, but I've always had the impression that TDs and councillors earn respect by "getting things" for people - but what things? If they get them things they're entitled to, then shouldn't they put putting that effort into fixing the system so that it doesn't require the intervention of an elected representative to make sure people get their entitlements? If they get them things they're not entitled to, isn't that basically corruption?

Ink cartridges.....

SoulandForm

I dislike Sinn Fein- but honestly I can see why a lot of criticism of them falls on deaf ears, and just seems to be gombeens ranting off who were happy enough to see the north bled as long as it didnt get in the way of them making money.

The six counties are part of Ireland- we gave important figures both culturally and politically.

SoulandForm

ManMade wrote: »

Ink cartridges.....

Ink is kind of minor compared to giving away an important natural resource to Shell and turning Mayo into a police state to do it, eh?

Fr Tod Umptious

SoulandForm wrote: »

Ink is kind of minor compared to giving away an important natural resource to Shell and turning Mayo into a police state to do it, eh?

And SF had a lot to do with three rent a crowd protesters in Mayo if I recall.
Taking scarce resources from other parts of the country

SoulandForm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And SF had a lot to do with three rent a crowd protesters in Mayo if I recall.
Taking scarce resources from other parts of the country

If only they did, if only...So you agree with the policy of giving things away to a very nasty multi-national for free?

oscarBravo

maccored wrote: »

the local sf councillor and town councillor where Im at both have regular meetings with people in the small offices the local council office I work at. they seem to be the most regular people there when it comes to locals meeting with councillors so I assume they're doing something.

Are people voting for them on the assumption that they're "doing something"?

SoulandForm wrote: »

Ink is kind of minor compared to giving away an important natural resource to Shell and turning Mayo into a police state to do it, eh?

I live in Mayo. It's very, very far from a police state. Insofar as there's a large and wasteful policing presence here, it's not because Shell are trying to bring gas onshore, but because an unrepresentative minority (sounds familiar) are trying to prevent them from lawfully doing so.

maccored

oscarBravo wrote: »

Are people voting for them on the assumption that they're "doing something"?

In a logical world, yes it's probably likely a person will vote for a councillor that takes the time to help them out with whatever issues councillors help the public out with.

Isnt that the basic premise - to vote for those that actually do things (ie, whatever issues councillors help the public out with)? Or is it to vote for the ones that have a pleasant and nice history, but who f*ck us over regardless?

oscarBravo

maccored wrote: »

In a logical world, yes it's probably likely a person will vote for a councillor that takes the time to help them out with whatever issues councillors help the public out with.

Isnt that the basic premise - to vote for those that actually do things (ie, whatever issues councillors help the public out with)? Or is it to vote for the ones that have a pleasant and nice history, but who f*ck us over regardless?

Fair enough, but so far all a SF (or any other) councillor would have to do to get elected is mouth off constantly about all the meetings s/he was having with officials, getting things done for their constituents.

Now, I don't believe that the average SF voter is voting for SF candidates because of how hard-working the candidates keep claiming to be, so I'm guessing they have earned their reputation as hard workers by actually doing stuff. Which brings me back to me previous questions: what are they doing? And should they be doing it?

maccored

lots of people vote for the wrong reasons. I dont see why that should stop other people voting because they find their local representative has been doing a good job of representing them.

As much as I am a SF voter, genuinely where I work in a local authority they are the people you do met the most in the building as they usually are meeting some member of the public about something. Maybe that could be conformation bias, I dont know, but I rarely meet any of the other councillors around unless there was a council meeting that day.

Regardless of all the arguing about the north etc etc, personally i do seem them working hard in representing anyone in the area. Thats all Im saying in regards their future popularity .... they will get votes if they do good work in their areas.

maccored

oscarBravo wrote: »

what are they doing? And should they be doing it?

Thats a bit of a mad question. They're doing the things councillors are usually asked to do by the public .. be that bad lighting, dangerous stretches of roads .... whatever someone wants raised at a council meeting. I would assume anyway since isnt that what all councillors are meant to be doing? And should they be doing it? Of course they should ... it's their job.

oscarBravo

maccored wrote: »

Thats a bit of a mad question. They're doing the things councillors are usually asked to do by the public .. be that bad lighting, dangerous stretches of roads .... whatever someone wants raised at a council meeting. I would assume anyway since isnt that what all councillors are meant to be doing? And should they be doing it? Of course they should ... it's their job.

That's not the impression I get when people talk about elected representatives doing things for them. There was an example raised in another thread of Dessie Ellis fast-tracking a passport application. You hear about people being helped to get medical cards, or planning permission.

Let's just take the medical card example: either you're entitled to a medical card, or you're not entitled to a medical card. If an elected representative gets you a medical card you're not entitled to, he's corruptly circumventing the system to obtain something fraudulently. If he gets you a medical card you're entitled to, he's buying a vote by prioritising your application above other people's, when he should be drawing attention to the fact that the system has unacceptable delays in it.

maccored

I dunno. Im not a fly on the wall when local SF reps talk to the public.

maccored

what ive seen is people complaining that the council had let their estate go to pieces with the tarmac in chunks, and eventually something getting done about it because of SF regularly raised the issue at council meetings. Speedbumps being put in roads where theres small kids living near, dangerous corners getting looked at - that sort of thing.

SoulandForm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I live in Mayo. It's very, very far from a police state. Insofar as there's a large and wasteful policing presence here, it's not because Shell are trying to bring gas onshore, but because an unrepresentative minority (sounds familiar) are trying to prevent them from lawfully doing so.

An elite rule Ireland.

An elite oppose them.

You support the giving of vital Irish natural resources, you support the occupation of the six counties.

Once Dublin had worse slums than Calcutta and the biggest Red Light District in Europe- it is because people stood up to people like those who support Shell robbing Irish resources that we have a some what decent country.

oscarBravo

SoulandForm wrote: »

You support the giving of vital Irish natural resources...

Nothing has been given away. Shell can write off their exploration costs against profits, and thereafter will pay double the normal rate of corporation tax. In the meantime, they've provided employment in Mayo and will continue to do so.

I don't remember Sinn Féin or anyone else clamouring for the government to spend billions of euros on oil and gas exploration a decade ago. A private company took the risk of spending money on exploration, and that private company will reap the profits as their reward for that risk. In the meantime, homes and businesses in many parts of Mayo have access to natural gas, which they didn't have a few years ago.

Could we have done a better deal? Maybe, but it's awfully easy to be a hard-nosed negotiator years after the fact. Does this justify the ongoing display of contempt for the rule of law that Sinn Féin are ringleading in Erris? Not in my book.

...you support the occupation of the six counties.

I don't accept that Northern Ireland is occupied.

SoulandForm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Nothing has been given away. Shell can write off their exploration costs against profits, and thereafter will pay double the normal rate of corporation tax. In the meantime, they've provided employment in Mayo and will continue to do so.

No Shell gets the rights to take our national resources- and we meekly bow the knee if they pay a few of us to help them. And they can go over private land if they want to. The slave mentality of the Irish- not just of Unionists and Loyalists- but of supposed Irish patriots is sickening when you seriously consider it.

SoulandForm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't accept that Northern Ireland is occupied.

Think seriously; do you consider it part of Ireland or not? Was Wolfe Tone Irish?

Fr Tod Umptious

Slideshowbob wrote: »

As I see it, SF are now in prime position to claim the social republican area of the political spectrum in the coming years.

What they have going for them:
- people under 30 only know SF as peacemakers
- they are not tainted by boom/bust (FF),or austerity (FG/Lab).

What their weaknesses are:
- their lack of experience
- naivety when it comes to economics

Granted elements of them may have a shady past (much is said but not much forthright evidence), but we all have pasts if we go back far enough.

If they can overcome their weaknesses, are they bound to become one of the two top parties in the next 10 years and protemtially lead a coalition government?

OP
Your thread title asks if SF can 'transform', then you imply that its up to the voting public to eventually forget the past and what SF did in the past

Surely if SF wish to 'transform' then they need to do the changing

They need to distance themselves from the past, and by that I mean expel the likes of Adams, McGuinness, Ferris etc.

They also need to ditch the left wing tryptic and make themselves more amenable to the likes of us who wish to work hard and become financially successful from that hard work.

I cannot see any of the above ever happening so to answer your question no SF cannot transform into a leading party in the next 5 to 10 years

murphaph

SoulandForm wrote: »

Think seriously; do you consider it part of Ireland or not? Was Wolfe Tone Irish?

Do you consider the Falklands Argentine, if so, why?

RandomName2

SoulandForm wrote: »

Think seriously; do you consider it part of Ireland or not?

You clearly cannot mean that Northern Ireland is part of the country called Ireland as they are, by definition, separate countries.

Presumably you cannot mean that people living in Northern Ireland want to become part of the country 'Ireland' because it has been demonstrably proven on multiple occasions that that is not predominantly the case.

So.. by process of elimination you must be endorsing a Manifest Destiny expansionist policy? Or Pan-Gaelicism?

SoulandForm wrote: »

Was Wolfe Tone Irish?

Wat.

OCorcrain

murphaph wrote: »

Do you consider the Falklands Argentine, if so, why?

Are you seriously comparing the Falklands to northern Ireland?

oscarBravo

SoulandForm wrote: »

No Shell gets the rights to take our national resources...

No, Shell gets no such thing. Shell gets to extract gas from one named field on terms that were agreed with the government. Again, it's possible that better terms could have been agreed; again, everyone's an expert in hindsight.

...and we meekly bow the knee if they pay a few of us to help them.

Yeah, how dare those evil bastards give people money in return for work. Who the hell do they think they are?

And they can go over private land if they want to.

No, they can't. If you have to make stuff up to support your point of view, it betrays a fairly fundamental weakness in that point of view.

The slave mentality of the Irish- not just of Unionists and Loyalists- but of supposed Irish patriots is sickening when you seriously consider it.

"Bow the knee", "slave mentality" - that's some awfully emotive rhetoric.

sure joe

gaffer91 wrote: »

What you list in the OP as advantages for SF are undoubtedly true, alas.

Couple of big problems I see for SF in the short to medium term:

1. A lot of people particularly the older voters will remember them from when they were the political wing of a terrorist organisation, with many of the current leadership also being ex-terrorists.

2. I think for young people coming up and becoming politically aware nowadays, the whole notion of a United Ireland is simply not particularly important to them (although I could be wrong about this).

3. I would say SF are transfer toxic still to a certain extent-although this seems to have improved for them in the last election, SF's seeming devotion to radical nationalism and crippling taxation of the middle and upper middle classes would be very unappealing to many voters.

4. SF politicians almost invariably look like clueless anti-intellectuals when they are debating anything which will come against them in an election campaign which is often when many voters make their final decision.

and clearly are present incumbents give the impresion of being highly intellectual, brave and intelligent, who arent afraid to stand up for those (not to those) who they were elected to represent. I have been delighted at their imaginative and constructive approach to unemployment. who would have thought forced emmigration was the answer

murphaph

OCorcrain wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing the Falklands to northern Ireland?

No, I'm trying to understand the mentality of most Irish republicans that states that Ireland should be free to decide it's fate as a whole and at the same time wishes to coerce the Falkland islanders to be part of Argentina, just because Argentina is the next big land mass (even though 99% of the islanders wish to remain British).

sure joe

murphaph wrote: »

No, I'm trying to understand the mentality of most Irish republicans that states that Ireland should be free to decide it's fate as a whole and at the same time wishes to coerce the Falkland islanders to be part of Argentina, just because Argentina is the next big land mass (even though 99% of the islanders wish to remain British).

its amazing that these islanders wish to remain british, if I didnt know better I would say they were english settlers planted there to stake their claim. thats sounds like somewhere I know.

OCorcrain

RandomName2 wrote: »

Not this again.

I could change my name by deed poll to Brian Boru.

Did you know that I once happened to be the high king of Ireland?

What are you insinuating?

sure joe

Godge wrote: »

I think SF will peak at the next local elections. They are elections that don't matter (for the last time before local authorities get property tax rate powers) and people will vote in protest for one last time. Thereafter Sinn Fein's vote will decline for a number of reasons:

(1) For as long as there are campaigners who remember Gardas Fallon and McCabe, who wonder where Jean McConville is buried and who else in the Dail built bombs that killed innocent civilians, then there is a part of the electorate who will never vote for Sinn Fein or transfer to them. That group is large enough in its own right to prevent Sinn Fein ever getting more than 30% of the seats in the Dail in the short-to-medium term.

(2) If people are going to forgive and forget SF for killing and murdering thousands, can anyone explain to me why they wouldn't forgive and forget FF for ruining the country? If so, then shouldn't FF recover as well, it will get crowded out there.

(3) By the time of the next general election, the economy will be starting to turn and most people will be in a situation where their circumstances are getting better or looking good. When you are getting richer and your economic prospects are improving then taxing the rich doesn't seem like as good an idea as when you are poor. The constituency attracted by Sinn Fein's mad economic policies will actually be smaller by then.

(4) Even if I am wrong about the above 3, the closer SF get to power, the more examination their policies will get and the hypocritical differences between their actual actions in the North/Six Counties/province of the UK and the proposed actions down here/26 counties/Ireland will become clearer and clearer.

However, as I say, that will be after the local elections.

if people are still wondering where she is after her body being discovered on a beach in louth. then they probably arent too bright
regarding the ecconomy. I just hope you reading of that is better than your political astuteness.
yes you are wrong

sure joe

barney 20v wrote: »

As a democrat I am entitled to hold an opinion on ALL political parties in this state.
I strongly feel that sf should never be allowed into government in this state... Ask Garda McCabe's family about sf/nationalist attitudes to the democratic process.

so what your saying is you agree with democracy, just as long as people vote for the same people as you.

megafan

SoulandForm wrote: »

Was Wolfe Tone Irish?

Well in the Shinners minds he should be a West Brit.....;)

sure joe

barney 20v wrote: »

Garda McCabe was murdered by the Ira.... Of course you say sinn fein knew nothing about it.... You may claim I am being disrespectful but IMHO good people such as Garda McCabe should never be forgotten and his murder by the ira is one legitimate example of the double standards of sf/ira
I will never forget the real sf or their crimes against this state and its people .
The other parties as I previously stated are useless as well.
I think the electorate deserve better than ALL those sitting in the dail.

Its Just the last time I checked the Green party for example had not murdered unarmed police officers in the recent past....

did you know him personally. in what way would you describe him as good. was he a good garda. did he do his job well. was he fair. did he beat up suspected republicans during interrogation. if you are so interested in the victims of the ira name the rest of them. then name the vitims of unionist paramiltaries and the british security forces. sure while your at it name all the people who "died" while in garda custody, presuming that you feel as agreived by innocent unarmed civilians being killed as armed gardai.

sure joe

RandomName2 wrote: »

You clearly cannot mean that Northern Ireland is part of the country called Ireland as they are, by definition, separate countries.

Presumably you cannot mean that people living in Northern Ireland want to become part of the country 'Ireland' because it has been demonstrably proven on multiple occasions that that is not predominantly the case.

So.. by process of elimination you must be endorsing a Manifest Destiny expansionist policy? Or Pan-Gaelicism?



Wat.

northern was a state that was created to give the protestant control over a part of ireland, because they had the majority and were armed to the teeth. agreeing to this partition was the cause of thosands of deaths and was an act of cowardice by both the english and irish. all they managed to do was delay the inevitable

barney 20v

sure joe wrote: »

so what your saying is you agree with democracy, just as long as people vote for the same people as you.

Incorrect and frankly I can not see how you came to that conclusion.

People are free to vote for whoever they deem fit, I gave my personal opinion on sf as that is what this thread is about is it not ?

barney 20v

sure joe wrote: »

did you know him personally. in what way would you describe him as good. was he a good garda. did he do his job well. was he fair. did he beat up suspected republicans during interrogation. if you are so interested in the victims of the ira name the rest of them. then name the vitims of unionist paramiltaries and the british security forces. sure while your at it name all the people who "died" while in garda custody, presuming that you feel as agreived by innocent unarmed civilians being killed as armed gardai.

I am of the opinion that a citizen who chooses to serve this republic and to protect it and its people from ALL threats both domestic and foreign is a good person.
Garda McCabe was murdered by ira operatives while doing his duty.
Sinn fein turned up to the release of these murderers .
The gardai were armed, on that you are correct.
May I remind you they were legally armed and part of a democratically controlled state ..the ira were not.

OCorcrain

barney 20v wrote: »

I am of the opinion that a citizen who chooses to serve this republic and to protect it and its people from ALL threats both domestic and foreign is a good person.
Garda McCabe was murdered by ira operatives while doing his duty.
Sinn fein turned up to the release of these murderers .
The gardai were armed, on that you are correct.
May I remind you they were legally armed and part of a democratically controlled state ..the ira were not.

Correction an individual who happened to be in Sinn Féin turned up. Does not mean the party supported and condoned what happened. In fact the party leadership have condemned it the McCabe killing. Sinn Féin is a legitimate and respected political party, the IRA (you aware that there is a number of IRAs yes?) is not. They are two different organizations get your facts straight before spouting off with your false indignation and your sanctimonious pretentious theatrical hyperbole.

But go ahead feel free to continue your ignorance in regard to that matter.

barney 20v

OCorcrain wrote: »

Correction an individual who happened to be in Sinn Féin turned up. Does not mean the party supported and condoned what happened. In fact the party leadership have condemned it the McCabe killing. Sinn Féin is a legitimate and respected political party, the IRA is not. They are two different organizations get your facts straight before spouting off with your false indignation and your sanctimonious pretentious theatrical hyperbole.

But go ahead feel free to continue your ignorance in regard to that matter.

Martin McGuinness..... Leading member/former member of the ira true or not?
On 10 February 2005, the government-appointed Independent Monitoring Commission reported that it firmly supported the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and Garda assessments that the IRA was responsible for the Northern Bank robbery and that certain senior members of Sinn Féin were also senior members of the IRA and would have had knowledge of and given approval to the carrying out of the robbery

In March 2005, Mitchell Reiss, the United States special envoy to Northern Ireland, condemned the party's links to the IRA, saying "it is hard to understand how a European country in the year 2005 can have a private army associated with a political party".

megafan

OCorcrain wrote: »

Correction an individual who happened to be in Sinn Féin turned up. Does not mean the party supported and condoned what happened..

Did not the Shinners leaders (Admas & co) not visit the killers of Garda McCabe while they were in prision here?