Parkrun..

robinph

In news that will surprise no-one:

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/04/21/covid-19-coronavirus-update-21-april/

parkrun suspended worldwide until the end of May.

Wondering if reading between the lines of

Importantly, we would also like to let you know that in all instances we will be taking a cautious approach to re-opening our events. And will only be doing so where not only do that country’s specific public health guidelines allow, but where we can be confident that our volunteer teams will not be placed under undue pressure.

They might be opening up to the idea that waiting until a whole territory can reopen might not be the best idea if smaller events can be restarted safely.

Say France, Italy or Germany lift their restrictions, and Ryanair/ Easyjet still have their flights suspended, might we see them restarting sooner. Probably then shutting down again as soon as international travel is available though. Could Bere Island or the prison events be allowed to open if those communities which are relatively closed off are safe and have controllable numbers.

ger664

It could also be left to Event/Run Directors on the day.
Lets say the max outdoor for a territory is 200 well if it looks like there are more then 200 run doesnt proceed on health and safety measures. I know I am the worlds worst at ttrying to predict the number at the start. However I dont see them returning until all events can take place.

Seannew1

ger664 wrote: »

It could also be left to Event/Run Directors on the day.
Lets say the max outdoor for a territory is 200 well if it looks like there are more then 200 run doesnt proceed on health and safety measures. I know I am the worlds worst at ttrying to predict the number at the start. However I dont see them returning until all events can take place.

This is true. Places like Malahide/St. Anne's can attract up tp 500 on a weekly basis, whereas, Castleblayney may only have 30 on a given week. Would go against parkrun ethos to open "lesser" attended parkruns and not the "bigger" ones.

I'm missing parkrun as much as the next person on this thread. Secretly hoping, they may be back in June but highly doubtful I would say.

CassieManson

Seannew1 wrote: »

This is true. Places like Malahide/St. Anne's can attract up tp 500 on a weekly basis, whereas, Castleblayney may only have 30 on a given week. Would go against parkrun ethos to open "lesser" attended parkruns and not the "bigger" ones.

I'm missing parkrun as much as the next person on this thread. Secretly hoping, they may be back in June but highly doubtful I would say.

Yes its tricky - if they open the smaller ones, people will travel from cancelled events.

Pawwed Rig

It could be done by invitation only for a number of weeks. That way you can roughly guesstimate how many will arrive.

You can't, of course, stop people entering a public park but, as in all of these things, you would have to rely on people to respect the restrictions.

I was meant to be running Mountjoy this week

rovers_runner

There won't be any parkrun for a long time lads.
How do you suggest they contact trace if they need to when people can run without a bib, barcode or and info on record?

At least with a corporate or club race everyone registers and you have a reference list for everyone there.

robinph

If contact tracing was the issue then parkrun is OK in that regard. The vast majority of runners at an event are identifiable and contactable via parkrun systems. Just as contactable as any other race, and easier to do than figuring out who was stood next to you on the bus or train each day during your commute to work.

rovers_runner

robinph wrote: »

If contact tracing was the issue then parkrun is OK in that regard. The vast majority of runners at an event are identifiable and contactable via parkrun systems. Just as contactable as any other race, and easier to do than figuring out who was stood next to you on the bus or train each day during your commute to work.

Really, you think?
What about all those anonymous entries in the results at all of the events?
There are no bibs and no obligation on anyone present to prove they have registered before or after taking part.

pc11

rovers_runner wrote: »

There won't be any parkrun for a long time lads.
How do you suggest they contact trace if they need to when people can run without a bib, barcode or and info on record?

At least with a corporate or club race everyone registers and you have a reference list for everyone there.

Parkrun would never be part of contact tracing. That's for close contacts like people you live with or share an office with. The tracers have enough to be doing without trying to contact 300 people you were vaguely in the same outdoor area with for a minute or two at the start!

They care about people you spent at least 15 mins with in the same room.

robinph

rovers_runner wrote: »

Really, you think?
What about all those anonymous entries in the results at all of the events?
There are no bibs and no obligation on anyone present to prove they have registered before or after taking part.

That is a really small percentage of unknown and fake registrations, but as said it doesn't really matter who you were running beside for 10 seconds on lap two of a windy and rainy parkrun.

It's who you spent 20 minutes squashed up against on a crowded bus or train on the way to work, or who you spent half an hour with in a coffee shop or all day with in your office.

ISOP

rovers_runner wrote: »

There won't be any parkrun for a long time lads.
How do you suggest they contact trace if they need to when people can run without a bib, barcode or and info on record?

At least with a corporate or club race everyone registers and you have a reference list for everyone there.

forget about Parkrun for 2020

Duzzie

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I was meant to be running Mountjoy this week

I feel your pain. I was due to run Mountjoy on 15th March, the first week of the suspension. Was really looking forward to it too. Hopefully when it restarts, the list will restart were it left off.

average_runner

People in Griffeen Park this morning for the park run. Happy birthday on the pathway and 60 number balloon.

Do these people not realise no groups of any sizes even with social distancing is not allowed?

Pawwed Rig

Duzzie wrote: »

I feel your pain. I was due to run Mountjoy on 15th March, the first week of the suspension. Was really looking forward to it too. Hopefully when it restarts, the list will restart were it left off.

I got an email from them saying that they have permission to have extra people attend when it (eventually) restarts so they will deal with the backlog that way.

robinph

average_runner wrote: »

People in Griffeen Park this morning for the park run. Happy birthday on the pathway and 60 number balloon.

Do these people not realise no groups of any sizes even with social distancing is not allowed?

Might be worth a quiet message to their social media team, if they are not on here already, reminding them to send out the posts about not turning up in any parkrun location at 9:30am on Saturdays.

The last thing parkrun needs is any bad press about it being parkrunners who are breaking any lockdown rules.

Seannew1

Am I correct in interpreting parkrun falling under phase 3 of the easing of lockdown restrictions??!

average_runner

Seannew1 wrote: »

Am I correct in interpreting parkrun falling under phase 3 of the easing of lockdown restrictions??!

Would say phase 5. Pitches open in phase 4 but social distancing

The Black Oil

I'm not sure how it could return with social distancing. My first thought was the welfare of the volunteers.

robinph

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm not sure how it could return with social distancing. My first thought was the welfare of the volunteers.

There is really no need for any volunteers to be within 2 meters of any parkrunners except for token handing out and scanning. And token handing out can be done without any contact and takes all of a second to do, scanning can also be done without any contact and takes only a second or two longer.

The main issues are people milling around and chatting in a confined space at the start and then going to crowded coffee shops afterwards.

The social distancing message will gradually change over the next while and become more specific to different situations.

average_runner

Come August social distancing will be limited. Cant keep telling kids they cant play or can't hug grand parents, it's not good for their mental health.

My little one is outside with her friend, keeping 2 metres apart if not more and its breaking my heart to see it.

robinph

average_runner wrote: »

Come August social distancing will be limited. Cant keep telling kids they cant play or can't hug grand parents, it's not good for their mental health.

My little one is outside with her friend, keeping 2 metres apart if not more and its breaking my heart to see it.

Mine is refusing to leave the house at the moment.

They are not particularly active anyway, but we had just about managed to get them interested in doing junior parkruns and now lost all that and gone even further backwards.

Did momentarily get them dancing infront of the xbox earlier, but they quickly got frustrated that it wasn't recognising them waving their bum at the screen as a valid command to play the next song.

DeepBlue

https://blog.parkrun.com/za/2020/05/05/covid-19-coronavirus-update-5-may/

Thirdly, in most countries we operate in it is likely to be several months before we consider it appropriate to reopen our events. By then, the world’s understanding of this virus will be very different, as will society’s feelings about it.

Hmmm... it looks like the return of parkrun is many months away.

Seannew1

The really damning sentence is this one, I feel!!!

"Also, at this time, we are not considering starting events where doing so would mean participants or volunteers are required to maintain a certain distance between each other."

Could be out for at least a year by looks of it!!

Sunny Dayz

DeepBlue wrote: »

https://blog.parkrun.com/za/2020/05/05/covid-19-coronavirus-update-5-may/



Hmmm... it looks like the return of parkrun is many months away.

Each paragraph seemed to be saying the same thing, just worded differently!
I got an undercurrent of "parkrun's not coming back anytime soon so stop asking about it!"

robinph

There was also a change from the sense I got of previous messages where they talked about a country potentially being able to restart with a week or so's notice of restrictions being lifted by the local government. Now seems more like they aren't going to restart anywhere until several months after restrictions lifted. They don't seem to want to be used as a test case for what happens when 100 people gather in a park and would rather a football stadium takes that publicity hit with 20,000 people instead.

average_runner

robinph wrote: »

There was also a change from the sense I got of previous messages where they talked about a country potentially being able to restart with a week or so's notice of restrictions being lifted by the local government. Now seems more like they aren't going to restart anywhere until several months after restrictions lifted. They don't seem to want to be used as a test case for what happens when 100 people gather in a park and would rather a football stadium takes that publicity hit with 20,000 people instead.

Can understand that

Seannew1

robinph wrote: »

There was also a change from the sense I got of previous messages where they talked about a country potentially being able to restart with a week or so's notice of restrictions being lifted by the local government. Now seems more like they aren't going to restart anywhere until several months after restrictions lifted. They don't seem to want to be used as a test case for what happens when 100 people gather in a park and would rather a football stadium takes that publicity hit with 20,000 people instead.

Yeah exactly. Although I don't see any reason for a country like New Zealand not to start up again in the Summer time considering that they had very few deaths and cases of the virus, whereas, the UK, have been hit really badly by the virus and most of the people behind the scenes at parkrun are UK based hence the rather downbeat status from them yesterday.

robinph

Seannew1 wrote: »

Yeah exactly. Although I don't see any reason for a country like New Zealand to start up again in the Summer time considering that they had very few deaths and cases of the virus, whereas, the UK, have been hit really badly by the virus and most of the people behind the scenes at parkrun are UK based hence the rather downbeat status from them yesterday.

New Zealand is the perfect place to restart. They have the numbers way down, only one point of entry to the country for international travel (other than from Australia) very easy compared to other countries to control any new cases coming in. And from parkruns perspective there is no chance of Ryanair flights of UK tourists heading over to claim a Z for their alphabet challenges.

Assuming the numbers remain low/ zero and sport in general starts to return in NZ I'd be very disappointed if they don't restart there soon just because they want Bushy Park in London to restart as well before they can be bothered to turn the server back on at HQ.

Cape Clear

Seannew1 wrote: »

The really damning sentence is this one, I feel!!!

"Also, at this time, we are not considering starting events where doing so would mean participants or volunteers are required to maintain a certain distance between each other."

Could be out for at least a year by looks of it!!

Maybe as an organisation they are more grounded in reality than most professional sports bodies.

Pawwed Rig

If they got rid of timing and scanning it might be feasible to bring it back quicker.
Or have self scanning with a fixed always on unit or a chip system to get times and participation numbers (which probably would be a non starter due to cost).

robinph

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If they got rid of timing and scanning it might be feasible to bring it back quicker.
Or have self scanning with a fixed always on unit or a chip system to get times and participation numbers (which probably would be a non starter due to cost).

I don't see how the timing or scanning are the risky points about parkrun?

It's the mingling around in a big group for 10 minutes before the briefing, the all standing even closer together for the 5 minutes of the briefing, the 30 seconds climbing on top of each other before the start and the hour sat around in the coffee shop chatting indoors afterwards.

keane2097

If you are handing a token to a sweaty, panting person there is a good chance you are going to get some droplets from them onto yourself, your mask, your gloves, the rest of the tokens etc. Let's just imagine they are COVID positive.

The next sweaty panting person comes along, gets a token with some fluid on it, hands it in to be scanned and then wipes their mouth. How is that not risky?

robinph

keane2097 wrote: »

If you are handing a token to a sweaty, panting person there is a good chance you are going to get some droplets from them onto yourself, your mask, your gloves, the rest of the tokens etc. Let's just imagine they are COVID positive.

The next sweaty panting person comes along, gets a token with some fluid on it, hands it in to be scanned and then wipes their mouth. How is that not risky?

All of the token interaction can be done with no physical contact between people, and sweat is not a risk for transmission of the virus.

keane2097

robinph wrote: »

All of the token interaction can be done with no physical contact between people, and sweat is not a risk for transmission of the virus.

If my upper lip is sweaty while I'm bursting myself on a 5k I often unconsciously wipe my mouth. I don't even realise I've done it, now there's sweat mingled with saliva on my hand and who knows what the difference between them is.

200 people running around fairly narrow paths all at different paces, wiping their mouths, panting, eventually having to interact with tokens other people will also have to interact with.

I'm fairly unconvinced that anything about it could be low risk to be honest.

robinph

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm fairly unconvinced that anything about it could be low risk to be honest.

Token hander outer drops the token in your hand, they do it like this at Bushy London anyway as its quicker than handing them over.

Then you hold the token for the scanners and then drop them in a bucket.

Not ideal, but the interaction is minimal and no more than a second or two. It's the duration that people are hanging around each other socialising that's the problem.

Gael23

I can see how smaller events can get going in a few months but larger ones like Marlay for example,e are a different story.

Burkie1203

robinph wrote: »

Token hander outer drops the token in your hand, they do it like this at Bushy London anyway as its quicker than handing them over.

Then you hold the token for the scanners and then drop them in a bucket.

Not ideal, but the interaction is minimal and no more than a second or two. It's the duration that people are hanging around each other socialising that's the problem.

The days of parkrun being timed by token and scanner are over. A new solution has to be found now.

robinph

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The days of parkrun being timed by token and scanner are over. A new solution has to be found now.

The problem there being if the cost of participating is any more than needing to head to the library to register and print out a barcode it then cuts off part of the main target audience for parkrun.

Requiring chip timing, a phone or any technology by the participants, or needing to provide more technology to 2500+ events isn't something they have the money to provide.

TaurenDruid

robinph wrote: »

The problem there being if the cost of participating is any more than needing to head to the library to register and print out a barcode it then cuts off part of the main target audience for parkrun.

Requiring chip timing, a phone or any technology by the participants, or needing to provide more technology to 2500+ events isn't something they have the money to provide.

Could see parkrun going the opposite way, too. "Free. Weekly. Untimed. No pressure." At least initially. It'd match the ambition of reaching a wider audience and seeing average 5k times go up rather than come down.

Seannew1

I am sure Parkrun HQ have considered all possibilities in conjunction with health authorities. Again, the biggest problem is the start line as I have maintained all along. Unless you sent you runners one by one, whereby they would forfeit their time. There is an interesting article by Professor Kingston Mills today in the Irish Times and he says that runners are extremely low risk. He also has a 2.13 marathon which I was very impressed with :pac::pac:

Pawwed Rig

It might be worth dispensing with timing for a while and send people out separately. It is the bigger parkruns with 100+ that are the main issue.

robinph

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It might be worth dispensing with timing for a while and send people out separately. It is the bigger parkruns with 100+ that are the main issue.

But the main point of parkrun isn't the timing, it's the social aspect. And the main problem in dealing with Covid19 is the social part, not the timing.

Cape Clear

I'm thinking of setting up my own 5k runs and will call them Homerun. Members of a household will set off as a group at 1 minute intervals over the space of an hour. I'm going to design my own branding and not rip off the Parkrun branding like someone I've heard of previously.

robinph

There was a good idea mentioned on With Me Now last week. A group who lived relatively near each other figured out a route which went past each of their front doors. At 9am they all set off from their door following the route, but in either direction. Then you pass half the group going the opposite way round on your run, get back to your home then sit by your front gate cheering for the others until you've seen everyone.

Seannew1

Sport Ireland have given athletics Ireland permission to allow club training resume in groups of 4 from next week. May not mean much for parkrun but probably gives some indication as to what's down the road for us!

Pawwed Rig

robinph wrote: »

But the main point of parkrun isn't the timing, it's the social aspect. And the main problem in dealing with Covid19 is the social part, not the timing.

I would have thought the main point was to remove barriers to running.

Anyway it is my little girls 4th birthday today. So registered and barcode printed
now just have to wait.

She has done about 20 jnr parkruns already but was never able to get a time

Burkie1203

robinph wrote: »

But the main point of parkrun isn't the timing, it's the social aspect. And the main problem in dealing with Covid19 is the social part, not the timing.

I've spoken to a good few ppl from my local parkrun. All are regular volunteers who say they won't volunteer to do tokens or scanning again. You can bang the drum about what you think is or isn't safe but the reality is finding people to have close interaction with 200 people breathing heavy etc, and be relying on them all to act safe is going to be tough.

robinph

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I've spoken to a good few ppl from my local parkrun. All are regular volunteers who say they won't volunteer to do tokens or scanning again. You can bang the drum about what you think is or isn't safe but the reality is finding people to have close interaction with 200 people breathing heavy etc, and be relying on them all to act safe is going to be tough.

Agreed.

There has been a fantastic effort globally to, quite rightly, scare the crap out of us all in order to get enough people to comply with some form of being socially distant from each other so that it makes a difference to transmission. The tricky bit now is to be able to ease back on the fear so that we can reach a point where some activities can resume.

Spending 2 seconds interacting with someone holding out a barcode at arms length for it to be scanned isn't a high risk interaction. Maybe it is if the entire field of 200 runners are infected and they all decide to cough whilst being scanned, but that is where governments should be doing testing to spot that kind of localised hot spot of infections and close things down.

How we interact in crowds will have to change, and no idea what that will become yet. Just because we all went round hugging each other, shaking hands and breathing heavily on each other at the end of run previously doesn't mean that's what we still have to do. Might only need a slight change to the social norms with people wearing masks whenever stood 2m away from someone to make the change though.

Still got zero concerns about the touching of tokens. It's the subsequent touching of faces which is the problem, and if nobody other than yourself touches the token it's not an issue.

Burkie1203

robinph wrote: »

Agreed.

There has been a fantastic effort globally to, quite rightly, scare the crap out of us all in order to get enough people to comply with some form of being socially distant from each other so that it makes a difference to transmission. The tricky bit now is to be able to ease back on the fear so that we can reach a point where some activities can resume.

Spending 2 seconds interacting with someone holding out a barcode at arms length for it to be scanned isn't a high risk interaction. Maybe it is if the entire field of 200 runners are infected and they all decide to cough whilst being scanned, but that is where governments should be doing testing to spot that kind of localised hot spot of infections and close things down.

How we interact in crowds will have to change, and no idea what that will become yet. Just because we all went round hugging each other, shaking hands and breathing heavily on each other at the end of run previously doesn't mean that's what we still have to do. Might only need a slight change to the social norms with people wearing masks whenever stood 2m away from someone to make the change though.

Still got zero concerns about the touching of tokens. It's the subsequent touching of faces which is the problem, and if nobody other than yourself touches the token it's not an issue.

But that's not How parkrun operates. Token and scanner volunteers are stuck in the same spot for an hour with 100-500 people all going past them, hanging around chatting, walking back and forth to catch up with people etc.

Look at society at large. The last 2 weeks have seen a big shift in behaviour back towards what it was a few months ago. I'm seeing more and more public gathering, I saw a football match being played in a local park yesterday by about 16 ppl, house parties nearby, saw a pic on Twitter of a party of sorts in Glasnevin cemetery sometime last week

Once society starts to get back to something resembling what it once was, people's behaviour will not be as vigilant as it was a few months ago and therein lies the problem. A well versed person handing out tokens is 100% reliant on 100-500 ppl (depending on which parkrun) to be vigilant at the end of a 5km run.

youngrun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

But that's not How parkrun operates. Token and scanner volunteers are stuck in the same spot for an hour with 100-500 people all going past them, hanging around chatting, walking back and forth to catch up with people etc.

Look at society at large. The last 2 weeks have seen a big shift in behaviour back towards what it was a few months ago. I'm seeing more and more public gathering, I saw a football match being played in a local park yesterday by about 16 ppl, house parties nearby, saw a pic on Twitter of a party of sorts in Glasnevin cemetery sometime last week

Once society starts to get back to something resembling what it once was, people's behaviour will not be as vigilant as it was a few months ago and therein lies the problem. A well versed person handing out tokens is 100% reliant on 100-500 ppl (depending on which parkrun) to be vigilant at the end of a 5km run.

Lots of people in fear or panic and risk averse now, maybe 40-50 % ?
Whether justified or not - I am of the opinion not, but likely a minority view which makes it difficult to get consenus re restarting events
For any events to start again there will need to be an acceptance of risk, health or otherwise,

Most likely to be the younger generation who want to get on with life and not hide away