Pro12: Munster vs Cardiff Blues, Sat 5 Jan 7:30pm; Live on RTÉ2

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Penney could get Jackie Healey Rea to give an inspirational speech about looking after Number One.

I thought Munsters speeches were about looking after number 10? :P

liammur

thomond2006 wrote: »

By the way, credit to Cardiff tonight. Copeland is a player that the IRFU need to get home, he turned 25 in October.

Yes, we can become too negative criticising one team to the exclusion of the other. Well done Cardiff, and anyone who backed them with a 15point handicap.

Fireball07

Cardiff were okay but they were nothing special. Munster handed them the victory on a plate tbqh.

pappyodaniel

I am not usually one to criticise a player but I have to make an exception for Duncan Williams. A couple of years ago I had seen enough of him to know he wasn't up to standard. Tonight he was given nearly a full game to prove me wrong. Unfortunately he didn't. He just cemented my opinion of him.

Worst scrum half performance since Mauro Bergamasco against England a few years back!

Higher

Future lock for Leinster, just what they need.

He was highest try scorer in the AIL while playing for St.Mary's.......in the second row! Himself and Madigan playing together would be a try frenzy!!!

thomond2006

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I am not usually one to criticise a player but I have to make an exception for Duncan Williams. A couple of years ago I had seen enough of him to know he wasn't up to standard. Tonight he was given nearly a full game to prove me wrong. Unfortunately he didn't. He just cemented my opinion of him.

Worst scrum half performance since Mauro Bergamasco against England a few years back!

and he's contracted for next season too.

Kev_2012

Pack was shocking, no control at the back of the scrum. Kilcoyne was probably the only stand out performer. I feel sorry for Howlett, he does everything right but his pace is absolutely gone!

ROGs kicking is pinpoint, but I cannot see the point in playing him when you are trying to get a backline moving or when the pack is lacklustre. Keatley has made a huge difference in that regard when at 10. Laulala and Downey haven't brought anything to the plate really and Hurley and Williams are woeful.

shuffol

thomond2006 wrote: »

By the way, credit to Cardiff tonight. Copeland is a player that the IRFU need to get home, he turned 25 in October.

Who needs him though, Connacht have McKeon who's shown promise at 8, he risks being shunted round different positions if at one of the provinces. If he's starting regularly at 8 for Cardiff thats where he's better off.

pappyodaniel

thomond2006 wrote: »

and he's contracted for next season too.

thomond2006

shuffol wrote: »

Who needs him though, Connacht have McKeon who's shown promise at 8, he risks being shunted round different positions if at one of the provinces. If he's starting regularly at 8 for Cardiff thats where he's better off.

True enough, but he's a talented player and the provinces can't do with enough of them.

Tox56

If (as higher says) Copeland is willing to play the second row he could be a good signing but, as far as I am aware, for Rotherham and Cardiff he has played predominantly in the backrow, and he looks good there.

shuffol

thomond2006 wrote: »

True enough, but he's a talented player and the provinces can't do with enough of them.

Agree but I'd prefer to see him establish himself as a top class option in one position rather than be a talented versatile player, he really looked the business at 8 tonight.

Judgement Day

Haven't read all the thread - just back from the pub mildly pissed in both senses - but that was without doubt the worst Munster performance I have ever seen. Doesn't hurt as much as being repeatedly beaten by Leinster but so, so awful. I'm a Munster fan rather than a Munster man, so perhaps somebody could tell me what the **** is going on down there? Leaderless, clueless rubbish and there's no point just blaming ROG. I'm sure some of you will be surprised mentioning no names (Thomond2006) that I thought Duncan Williams had one one of his better games until the last few minutes. I hope that poor Conor Murray is okay - looked awful!

Anyway, as rugby is supposed to be one of my few safety valves I'll be here http://www.enniscorthyrugby.com/ next weekend instead of watching TV where, hopefully, I'll see rugby played with some passion and commitment - unlike tonight.

12th Jan 2013 14:30 Enniscorthy 1st XV Wanderers
Ross Road, Enniscorthy (Leinster League)

Deliverance XXV

Fair play to Cardiff. They took advantage of a poor Munster tonight.
Unlucky with the injuries at the start. Can't believe ROG kept kicking for territory when Cardiff completely owned the line-outs in their half.

Munster looked stuck when their original game-plan didn't go their way; like there was no plan B. Why play Downey when they're not playing direct rugby?
Surely Lualala (sp?) would be more suited?

chippers

Judgement Day wrote: »

Anyway, as rugby is supposed to be one of my few safety valves I'll be here http://www.enniscorthyrugby.com/ next weekend instead of watching TV where, hopefully, I'll see rugby played with some passion and commitment - unlike tonight.

12th Jan 2013 14:30 Enniscorthy 1st XV Wanderers
Ross Road, Enniscorthy (Leinster League)

I agree 100%.

liammur

Judgement Day wrote: »

Haven't read all the thread - just back from the pub mildly pissed in both senses - but that was without doubt the worst Munster performance I have ever seen. Doesn't hurt as much as being repeatedly beaten by Leinster but so, so awful. I'm a Munster fan rather than a Munster man, so perhaps somebody could tell me what the **** is going on down there? Leaderless, clueless rubbish and there's no point just blaming ROG. I'm sure some of you will be surprised mentioning no names (Thomond2006) that I thought Duncan Williams had one one of his better games until the last few minutes. I hope that poor Conor Murray is okay - looked awful!

Anyway, as rugby is supposed to be one of my few safety valves I'll be here http://www.enniscorthyrugby.com/ next weekend instead of watching TV where, hopefully, I'll see rugby played with some passion and commitment - unlike tonight.

12th Jan 2013 14:30 Enniscorthy 1st XV Wanderers
Ross Road, Enniscorthy (Leinster League)

Unfortunately, I'm getting more and more used to them.

irishbucsfan

The players aren't good enough unfortunately. There's a few years of development left for Munster before they can get where people assume they should be right now. The potential is there right across the squad but they need plenty of time and coaching. If they miss on any more signings like the Laulala/Downey ones they'll give themselves big problems as well.


Big trouble in the midfield tonight. Downey and Earls are an atrocious partnership.

thomond2006

Did we even see Downey and Earls trying to combine something once in the game? Downey is barely used in attack.

I see little difference between the side to side rubbish tonight and a lot of performances under McGahan.

Fishooks13

Had a match myself. Who was good bad? I presume a lot more bad than good

Fishooks13

thomond2006 wrote: »

liam what are traditional munster values? O'Gara was kicking to the corner all night and our pack did zero with that territory. So that rules traditional Munster out. We don't have the pack to play 10 man rugby, I'm sorry to say. Nearly our entire pack from that era is gone and that was a phenomenal pack.

.

Don't worry you won't get an answer from him.

Reading through the comments it seems our pack were woeful. So yes, it certainly makes sense to base our game around them :rolleyes:

.ak

I think Penney deserves a good run. I hate all this sack the coach talk before his first season is over. IMO I think he could turn Munster into a dangerous side. He had them playing great at the beginning of the season, and for the first time Munster have shown flashes of creative, loose back play. I think it's just a case of getting the right combos together.

thomond2006

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Don't worry you won't get an answer from him.

Reading through the comments it seems our pack were woeful. So yes, it certainly makes sense to base our game around them :rolleyes:

Fishooks do yourself a favour and avoid watching the game back.

Quint2010

CptMackey wrote: »

Very poor. Time for penny to pack his bags. His gameplan of pass pass isn't working at all. Frustrating to watch. Also this kicking to the corners is fine when you are winning but not when you need to score. You need the bloody ball for that

FFS. The guy has only been there 5 minutes. Penney is bloody good coach and Munster are lucky to have him IMO. He is trying to change an entire rugby culture and a province whose normal game plan that is now stuck in the dark ages. Give the man a chance. I have to also add that Anthony Foley isn't helping with his overly negative body language sitting there with a face as long as a month of Monday mornings. There is bound to be pain along the way. Keep the faith.

Fishooks13

People are calling for Penney's head after a rabo game? I haven't seen the game and I'm not the biggest fan of the game plan we're attempting this season, but calling for his head is hysterical. This ain't soccer.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Did we even see Downey and Earls trying to combine something once in the game? Downey is barely used in attack.

I see little difference between the side to side rubbish tonight and a lot of performances under McGahan.

I thought they looked better under McGahan at times.

I would love to know what Mannix is trying to achieve with the ball. Munster are kicking possession away when they have control of the ball, and they're shovelling it around in transitional play, either a completely flat line or one with 10 vertical meters between the backs. There seems to be very little development in that aspect of the game.

I don't see a use for Downey at all. I would really hope they'll put Earls outside Laulala next week. O'Gara at 10 is fine if the rest of the midfield are a bit more multi-dimensional. Even Hanrahan is better option as far as I'm concerned.

They also need Zebo there to pose a threat coming into midfield. I thought he was really missed tonight.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

I think Penney deserves a good run. I hate all this sack the coach talk before his first season is over. IMO I think he could turn Munster into a dangerous side. He had them playing great at the beginning of the season, and for the first time Munster have shown flashes of creative, loose back play. I think it's just a case of getting the right combos together.

I don't think anybody with cop on will want the coaches out now, give them till the end of the season and then reassess.

Fireball07

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The players aren't good enough unfortunately. There's a few years of development left for Munster before they can get where people assume they should be right now. The potential is there right across the squad but they need plenty of time and coaching. If they miss on any more signings like the Laulala/Downey ones they'll give themselves big problems as well.

Big trouble in the midfield tonight. Downey and Earls are an atrocious partnership.

Good enough to beat Cardiff comfortably though. Laulala was Cardiff's best player last season. Haven't got enough out of him and Downey...partly down to him, but the coach has to get the best out of his players too.

Howlett doesn't have the pace he used to have, seems silly to rely on him to try and outpace his opposite number, and Hurley was never the quickest.

Williams' passing & ROG standing pretty deep didn't really help the midfield who are never utilised properly anyway.


As for the pack...the scrum was decent enough but Coughlan failed to control at the base a few times. I think they were expecting penalties as they were pushing the Cardiff scrum back at some pace at times. Dougall was very very quiet...TOD didn't really show up as a ball-carrier.

mfceiling

Very poor from munster tonight.

From watching the first half i knew they weren't going to threaten the cardiff line at all.

Side to side and then into touch - no line breaks or dangerous looking runners at all.

Zebo not playing doesn't help.

No fault to ROG but kicking into the corners with "that's a beautiful kick from O'Gara - he does that so well".....not much good when cardiff keep winning their line out and then belt the ball back up to halfway every time.

Judgement Day

Where was the Munster passion that you could always depend on in the past?

thomond2006

If not for Donnacha Ryan's brilliant workrate and an awful forward pass from Jamie Roberts, Cardiff could have been far more comfortable. Munster were fortunate.

PVMC

Hi there, first time post here. Just wondering about the no 9 players. Where does Stringer fit in the team selection.? Anytime he has played the ball is moved faster and more effectively than by any other scrumhalf on the panel. I know that his age is against him but I feel he is the only no. 9 to get the forwards moving forward at pace. New players need to be given game time, but surely at this stage of the season Penney needs to select players who are in form.
Sorry if this has been covered in previous posts, but I just saw tonites "rugby" game and had to get this of my chest:o

chippers

thomond2006 wrote: »

If not for Donnacha Ryan's brilliant workrate and an awful forward pass from Jamie Roberts, Cardiff could have been far more comfortable. Munster were fortunate.

I wouldn't say they were fortunate. The score line was a fair reflection on the game. A different ref might have penalised Cardiff a lot more at scrum time.

liammur

Judgement Day wrote: »

Where was the Munster passion that you could always depend on in the past?

This is a very good question that needs to be addressed, and I first noticed it missing under McGahan.

thomond2006

PVMC wrote: »

Hi there, first time post here. Just wondering about the no 9 players. Where does Stringer fit in the team selection.? Anytime he has played the ball is moved faster and more effectively than by any other scrumhalf on the panel. I know that his age is against him but I feel he is the only no. 9 to get the forwards moving forward at pace. New players need to be given game time, but surely at this stage of the season Penney needs to select players who are in form.
Sorry if this has been covered in previous posts, but I just saw tonites "rugby" game and had to get this of my chest:o

Welcome PVMC.

Stringer would be third choice on the basis of tonight's selection.

He does have the best pass in the panel however his performances haven't been consistent this season, although in his last start against Connacht I thought he was excellent. I thought he should have been on the bench against Cardiff and on the basis of tonight he should definitely be ahead of Duncan Williams in the pecking order in the upcoming Heineken Cup games.

Judgement Day

PVMC is not a Judgement Day re-reg.

thomond2006

Judgement Day wrote: »

PVMC is not a Judgement Day re-reg.

The mods are checking IP addresses already no doubt.

irishbucsfan

Peter Stringer just isnt up to it, I can certainly understand why Williams is there ahead of him. But they need someone else. I said Michael Heaney during the week, I think he'd be a great player to complement Murray

Fireball07

I don't think passion is gone from the side... I mean the performance against Sarries a few weeks ago was filled with passion. I don't think you could ever accuse the likes of Coughlan, Ryan, Kilcoyne, etc. of a lack of passion. I think today they were just clueless rather than without passion.

liammur

Fireball07 wrote: »

I don't think passion is gone from the side... I mean the performance against Sarries a few weeks ago was filled with passion. I don't think you could ever accuse the likes of Coughlan, Ryan, Kilcoyne, etc. of a lack of passion. I think today they were just clueless rather than without passion.

Well losing tonight may be a blessing in disguise, for if we don't see a spirited performance next week we can forget about it. Munster were always at their best after a shocker like tonight.

irishbucsfan

The problem has nothing to do with honesty, graft, passion or any of the other buzzwords the Irish journalists came up with in the early half of the last decade. It wasn't the reason for their successes back then, it's not the reason for their failures now.

sixy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Peter Stringer just isnt up to it, I can certainly understand why Williams is there ahead of him. But they need someone else. I said Michael Heaney during the week, I think he'd be a great player to complement Murray

The only halfback they can have is O'Connor

liammur

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The problem has nothing to do with honesty, graft, passion or any of the other buzzwords the Irish journalists came up with in the early half of the last decade. It wasn't the reason for their successes back then, it's not the reason for their failures now.

Well how do you explain Munster's success over the 2000-2008 period if it wasn't down to honesty, passion and hunger? They were never the best team on paper, yet over an 8 year period they dominated. Surely the likes of Gaillimh knows what they are talking about when they mention the X factor.

Lelantos

liammur wrote: »

Well how do you explain Munster's success over the 2000-2008 period if it wasn't down to honesty, passion and hunger? They were never the best team on paper, yet over an 8 year period they dominated. Surely the likes of Gaillimh knows what they are talking about when they mention the X factor.

Louis Walsh at 10 for next week so!

sixy

liammur wrote: »

Well how do you explain Munster's success over the 2000-2008 period if it wasn't down to honesty, passion and hunger? They were never the best team on paper, yet over an 8 year period they dominated. Surely the likes of Gaillimh knows what they are talking about when they mention the X factor.

They had an outstanding pack and very good halfbacks which suited their gameplan perfectly

danthefan

liammur wrote: »

Well how do you explain Munster's success over the 2000-2008 period if it wasn't down to honesty, passion and hunger? They were never the best team on paper, yet over an 8 year period they dominated. Surely the likes of Gaillimh knows what they are talking about when they mention the X factor.

I can't tell if this is a joke post or not.

liammur

danthefan wrote: »

I can't tell if this is a joke post or not.

Time to put the unfortunate danthefan out of his misery. No dan, it's not a joke. hope that helps.

danthefan

liammur wrote: »

Time to put the unfortunate danthefan out of his misery. No dan, it's not a joke. hope that helps.

The Munster marketing machine lives on.

Quint2010

This is exactly how Nazi Germany started...

jamiedav2011

liammur wrote: »

Well how do you explain Munster's success over the 2000-2008 period if it wasn't down to honesty, passion and hunger? They were never the best team on paper, yet over an 8 year period they dominated. Surely the likes of Gaillimh knows what they are talking about when they mention the X factor.

You have to be having a laugh surely?!

thomond2006

You can tell from that interview that Penney is fit to kill someone.