Service Charge - Included but i don't agree

mfceiling

What's the story with this?

Went to meet friends for a coffee in Avoca in dublin today. Paid the bill then looked at the receipt later and noticed that a 10% service charge had been included.....however...i didn't agree to this.

There's no such thing as opt in for this charge. Opt out is fine but who gives permission for me to pay this 10%....

Didn't see any signs anywhere advising of this. Didn't receive a menu as we just ordered 4 coffees straight from the waiter.

What's the story with included service charges?

Stheno

They are perfectly within their rights to include them

j8wk2feszrnpao

Stheno wrote: »

They are perfectly within their rights to include them

Are they meant to have it included on the menu or stated somewhere?
Would seem strange if they didn't.

Stheno

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Are they meant to have it included on the menu or stated somewhere?
Would seem strange if they didn't.

Yeah normally it's in very small print on the menu

OP didn't get a menu though

j8wk2feszrnpao

Stheno wrote: »

Yeah normally it's in very small print on the menu

OP didn't get a menu though

Wonder if the waiter is meant to inform you then.

Skid

mfceiling wrote: »

There's no such thing as opt in for this charge. Opt out is fine but who gives permission for me to pay this 10%....

If you didn't ask to see a menu, you can't have been too concerned about the price.

Always check the bill to see if a Service Charge has been added.

Doom

Ring them up, tell them it's crappy to look for a service charge for two coffees and tell them their business is DOOMED because you posted it here.....:pac:

aN.Droid

Skid wrote: »

If you didn't ask to see a menu, you can't have been too concerned about the price.

Always check the bill to see if a Service Charge has been added.

Or there is some other form of price list? Such as a board outside the store or above the bar?

Sam Kade

Doom wrote: »

Ring them up, tell them it's crappy to look for a service charge for two coffees and tell them their business is DOOMED because you posted it here.....:pac:

Doom where is your other half?

mfceiling

Just find it crappy that they are adding a charge for something that might be sh*t and where you won't get the chance to decide to pay a charge yourself.

Wonder what the legal standing is on included service charges? Surely service must be included and it's your decision to pay extra for "good service".

j8wk2feszrnpao

mfceiling wrote: »

Just find it crappy that they are adding a charge for something that might be sh*t and where you won't get the chance to decide to pay a charge yourself.

Wonder what the legal standing is on included service charges? Surely service must be included and it's your decision to pay extra for "good service".

I guess they can say it's a 'service' charge, and not a 'good/bad service' charge.

Just avoid them in the future I suppose.

Menas

Agreed that it is very crappy. I have never seen a service charge applied for a couple of coffees.
I will not be going there again - thanks for the warning op!

Nanazolie

I guess they make it transparent rather than charging you say 3€ for the coffee, they break it down to show the service charge. The owner will pay their staff out of the money they get from that coffee anyway.
Would you have left a tip? If so, it would be likely to be 10% of the coffee price

Menas

Nanazolie wrote: »

I guess they make it transparent rather than charging you say 3€ for the coffee, they break it down to show the service charge. The owner will pay their staff out of the money they get from that coffee anyway.
Would you have left a tip? If so, it would be likely to be 10% of the coffee price

Agreed, but the difference is that with a tip you have a choice. With a service charge you dont.
I have no problem paying a service charge in a restaruant when there is a party of 6 or more. But paying it for a couple of coffees....nah - I dont like that.

I accept that in some places the cost of a takeaway coffee is lower than a sit in coffee...but still!

P. Breathnach

mfceiling wrote: »

...
Didn't see any signs anywhere advising of this. Didn't receive a menu as we just ordered 4 coffees straight from the waiter...

So when you ordered the coffees, you had no idea of how much they might cost? And when asked to pay for them, you regard the way the bill is made up as an issue?

If the coffees were charged as €2.20 each, that would have been okay, but if they were charged at €2.00 each + 10% SC, that's a problem?

Next time, look at the menu before you order.

Nanazolie

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Agreed, but the difference is that with a tip you have a choice. With a service charge you dont.
I have no problem paying a service charge in a restaruant when there is a party of 6 or more. But paying it for a couple of coffees....nah - I dont like that.

I accept that in some places the cost of a takeaway coffee is lower than a sit in coffee...but still!

It depends of the price of course (Avoca tends to be way overpriced for coffee), but I have no issue with the bill stating clearly "3€ including 10% service charge". Because in most places, they charge you 3€ anyway and that includes service but it is not clear. Of course, the manager / owner will use these 30 cents or so to pay PRSI charges, staff, etc. Even take away coffee will include some service charge

SweetCaliber

Wait, all this rant over a 60c service charge? :O jaysus...

ahnowbrowncow

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Wait, all this rant over a 60c service charge? :O jaysus...

IT'S NOT THE COST, IT'S THE PRINCIPAL. :pac:

Procrastastudy

It might even be the principle - useless that pun has gone right over my head which is a distinct possibility.

Vote with your feet. I've yet to find a single place in Ireland that sells a decent coffee let alone Avoca which just seems like a place middle-aged, middle-class dull women go. :pac:

rubadub

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If the coffees were charged as €2.20 each, that would have been okay, but if they were charged at €2.00 each + 10% SC, that's a problem?

+1, if they broke it down further he might have moaned more. The ground coffee itself is only about 10cent, they could tag on load of other charges, like ryan air used to
"light & heat" -wasn't bright enough, room was only 19C, no paying
"hot water" -could have been hotter, not paying
"furnishings & fittings", -chair was wonky, willing to pay half.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/pricing/price_display_of_goods_and_services.html

Price display for Food in Restaurants, Cafés and Hotels

If you visit a restaurant you can reasonably expect to be informed about their prices for food. The Retail Prices (Food in Catering Establishments) Display Order, 1984 requires the owners to display a comprehensive price list of food items. This law applies to all hotels, pubs, restaurants, cafés, etc. that offer food for sale and consumption on the premises. This notice should be visible immediately outside or inside where the food is being served. In the case of a hotel or a licensed premises where food is served in some areas, the notice can be displayed either at the entrance to the premises or at the entrance to the catering area. Any extra charges that apply (such as service charges etc) must be stated clearly on the notice too.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Charging a service charge on four coffees is just ridiculous. Although it most likely stated the charge on the menu or by the till.

Reminds me of a restaurant I was in a few ago in Dublin. There was a service charge for two or more people. :mad:

rubadub

BearNecessities wrote: »

Charging a service charge on four coffees is just ridiculous.

Why is this? When do you think its acceptable to kick in? 40 coffees?

I think service charges in general are ridiculous by the way, just tell me what I have to pay. But if there is going to be one I see no reason it should be applied to only higher value items, esp. as its a percentage. If something is low price like the coffee then the service charge is low.

If anything the service charge should be more on lower volume items, e.g. it probably costs more per cup to make and serve 4 coffees than 40. So you should be paying the opposite of a bulk discount, a low volume surcharge.

UDP

Op, it's not a tip. It is a charge for the service you got. If you have a problem with the service you got then you should take it up with management.

j8wk2feszrnpao

This probably hits the staff most of all.
No guarantee that the services charge goes into their pocket, more of a chance that they can keep the tip.

Colonel Sanders

rubadub wrote: »

When do you think its acceptable to kick in?

I personally don't think it's EVER acceptable to add a service charge tbh. Although if it is clearly advertised I then have the option to stay an accept the charge or go elsewhere

If a customer wants to tip, leave them off. I only tip for really good service. I never automatically tip. Eating out is bloody expensive, no way will I add 10% just because everyone else does

scudzilla

Went to that Greek Restaurant in Malahide 5yrs ago, used to go a lot, there was 4 of us, a Tuesday night and the place was dead, got the bill and paid, realised after there was a 15% service charge for tables of 4 or more.

Never set foot in the place since, would have left a tip (normally do 10%) but hate having it forced, and also, for table of 4 or more, they'r making more money by having 4 people

UDP

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

If a customer wants to tip, leave them off.

but it's not a tip. It's an unavoidable charge for service.

fasttalkerchat

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Wait, all this rant over a 60c service charge? :O jaysus...

I see the point. If someone serves a poorly made coffee on a dirty table I will pay the bare minimum. If I get particularly good service I have on occasion paid double the cost.

Procrastastudy

Tips and service charges are very different things. Service charges can, IIRC be used to pay the minimum wage - e.g the staff get paid the service charge as art of their basic.

P. Breathnach

I have often asked in restaurants what happens to the service charge (and I'm no so naive as to ask the proprietor, who might want to mislead me). In almost every case, I have got the same response: it is put into a pot, and divvied-up among the staff as an addition to their pay.

Very occasionally I have detected signs of discontent about how fair the division is, but that's another question.

Melendez

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