How do you make a complaint to your boss, when it's about your boss?

LegacyUser

Hi all,

I'm turning to boards because I don't really know where else to look for advice on this situation. Hopefully someone here will be able to help me.

Long story short, I've been working at a company for the past 18 months. Out of the blue I was called in for a disicplinary meeting regarding an exchange I had with a coworker. My employer claimed that I was abusive and that I had a severe attitude (the altercation itself was minor and the employee who made the complaint seriously exaggerated things and was incredibly abusive towards me).

In the meeting I was handed a written warning and forced to sign it. I asked if the coworker could be brought in so we could resolve what was going on and I was told the coworker wouldn't be involved in the meeting.

I was told that I was on my second warning, despite the fact that I was never given a first warning, notice that the meeting was taken place or the option to bring someone into the meeting with me.

I know that this is not right and I am planning on pursuing the matter. I have consulted a solicitor as well and he suggested I should lodge a complaint. The only problem is, it's a privately owned business and I would have to had the complaint to my boss. So I would be giving him a complaint about his actions in the meeting.

I'm not sure how to approach this but I feel as though I have to take the matter further.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Eoin

A bit disappointing that the solicitor didn't give you any more advice than that.

First off, putting aside that they didn't follow the procedures correctly, you do have the right to appeal the outcome of a disciplinary procedure. That could be an avenue for you to pursue, and could potentially be done in a way that means you can repair the relationship.

But if your solicitor thinks you should complain, then that means talking to your boss' boss, unless there's a HR manager you can talk to*. If your boss runs the company, then you need to get value for your money and ask your solicitor how to proceed.

*Before people start moaning about HR being useless and all that blah blah - remember that they are there to protect the company, and if the company don't follow disciplinary procedures properly, they're on very thin ice. So a halfway competent HR professional will want to sort that out.

tatli_lokma

Eoin wrote: »

*Before people start moaning about HR being useless and all that blah blah - remember that they are there to protect the company, and if the company don't follow disciplinary procedures properly, they're on very thin ice. So a halfway competent HR professional will want to sort that out.

+1 and also, even though your employer has a procedure they must follow, equally, if you want to bring it further the more evidence you can give that you tried to resolve the issue amicably with your company then this will stand to you. So in a way there is a procedure you need to follow also to take it further. So by going to HR or more senior management then you are taking the first right step.

Sorry to hear that things are so unpleasant for you right now OP. I hope it improves.

Procrastastudy

Clear case of unfair procedures - solicitor is probably aware there is naff all you can do until you're fired at which point it will be an open ans shut case at EAT. I'd enjoy all the paid time off you're about to get in all honesty.

Make sure you raise a grievance and get the solicitor's help in drafting it - from your OP they've made about half a dozen mistakes re disciplinary procedures.

Eoin

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Clear case of unfair procedures - solicitor is probably aware there is naff all you can do until you're fired at which point it will be an open ans shut case at EAT. I'd enjoy all the paid time off you're about to get in all honesty.

Make sure you raise a grievance and get the solicitor's help in drafting it - from your OP they've made about half a dozen mistakes re disciplinary procedures.

The solicitor can advise on how the case wil turn out. That's not what this forum is for.

Procrastastudy

Eoin wrote: »

The solicitor can advise on how the case wil turn out. That's not what this forum is for.

Apologies - what I meant to convey was the solicitor probably knows there's not a lot that can be done; as rightly pointed out though its up to him/her to tell you that, but that's the line of enquiry I would make with them OP.

If you don't like the advice/lack of same being given by the solicitor try someone else. Edit: (meaning a different solicitor)

Wanderer2010

OP, im sorry to hear your issue, I would echo the advice to bring the issue to the boss of your boss and explain the facts in a calm manner, do you have a union rep? If so, explain to them that you were skipped ahead in the warning section and you also dont feel it is justified to have gotten one in the first place.

I disagree that HR dont have vested interests, of course they do, they work for the company and will do anything to protect itself. In all the places I worked, I have never once (not once) seen an employee who made a complaint against a boss have their complaint upheld. It was always the employees fault and they were moved sideways or somewhere else whereas the boss just contiues to be a d!ck. HR will never admit they made a mistake hiring a boss as that reflects badly on them so they will always push blame back to the employee and all their procedures on grievances arent worth a slap as they wont pull up bosses on anything.

Unions are very good for employees as they protect the employees from the company in many ways..

Eoin

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

.
I disagree that HR dont have vested interests, of course they do, they work for the company and will do anything to protect itself. In all the places I worked, I have never once (not once) seen an employee who made a complaint against a boss have their complaint upheld. It was always the employees fault and they were moved sideways or somewhere else whereas the boss just contiues to be a d!ck. HR will never admit they made a mistake hiring a boss as that reflects badly on them so they will always push blame back to the employee and all their procedures on grievances arent worth a slap as they wont pull up bosses on anything.

Here we go again.

Of course HR have a vested interest. They are hired to protect the company. But if a company doesn't follow procedures, that can cause problems for the company. Therefore HR will want to ensure that managers do follow the procedures.

If the company wanted to let someone go, then they would have to make sure that they have a watertight case otherwise they are leaving themselves wide open to legal action.

By the way, do you think think that HR hire managers?

Wanderer2010

^ HR do have a say in it. I know they are influenced by other managers and their references etc, and I understand that they are going on the word of how good he/she is based on people who have worked with them etc but they still have a role in the hiring process and if the potential manager falls flat on the HR 'side' of the interview (qs like teamwork, confrontation, other skills etc) then if HR arent happy the hire isnt made. That has always been the case anywhere I work.

I agree that they are needed for company procedures to be followed etc but when employees make valid and genuine complaints about a boss they mostly look the other way i.e they are protecting themselves (they were behind the hire) and NOT the employees so yes, they have a role in protection-of themselves only, thats the reality.

Eoin

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I agree that they are needed for company procedures to be followed etc

Not that I agree with the rest of your post, but this is exactly the OP's situation.

According to the OP, the procedures have not been followed correctly, and therefore can leave the company on dodgy ground. If you think that HR people never tear strips off a manager for doing stuff like this, you are mistaken.

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder with HR/management, so I'm not going to get dragged into another endless debate as it's not going to help the OP here.

Wanderer2010

Eoin wrote: »

Not that I agree with the rest of your post, but this is exactly the OP's situation.

According to the OP, the procedures have not been followed correctly, and therefore can leave the company on dodgy ground. If you think that HR people never tear strips off a manager for doing stuff like this, you are mistaken.

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder with HR/management, so I'm not going to get dragged into another endless debate as it's not going to help the OP here.

There is no chip, Eoin, I just am bringing my own opinion on HR and how it treats people to the table based on the vast experience I have with the workplace, and with regard your point of HR tearing strips off managers, it may happen but is a token gesture, they are rarely fired for their behavior. HR protects the company and all its managers, good or bad.
Unions protect the employees and their rights.

Eoin

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

There is no chip, Eoin, I just am bringing my own opinion on HR and how it treats people to the table based on the vast experience I have with the workplace, and with regard your point of HR tearing strips off managers, it may happen but is a token gesture, they are rarely fired for their behavior. HR protects the company and all its managers, good or bad.
Unions protect the employees and their rights.

For the purposes of hopefully helping the OP: HR are there to protect the company. If a manager does not follow the correct procedures, they are leaving the company wide open. Therefore HR will want to correct this and ensure that the right procedures are followed. I'm not going to get drawn into another endless debate about how "the man" is always out to get the workers.

Wanderer2010

Eoin wrote: »

For the purposes of hopefully helping the OP: HR are there to protect the company. If a manager does not follow the correct procedures, they are leaving the company wide open. Therefore HR will want to correct this and ensure that the right procedures are followed. I'm not going to get drawn into another endless debate about how "the man" is always out to get the workers.

I never said the man is always out to get the workers, my point is HR will protect managers above employees- absolutely they will accept their grievances etc and make sure all their policies are followed but ultimately (and this is important) they are not there to help the employee, do you know of any managers that were fired after a HR complaint? I sure dont and I have worked in a lot of places. HR are a kind of cement to go over the faults of bullying bosses or dodgy Health and Safety issues- they will investigate but 100% of the time the company will end up smelling of roses.

I hope the OP doesnt rely soley on the HR dept. if they go down that route as a union rep is more helpful in their particular case..

Eoin

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I never said the man is always out to get the workers, my point is HR will protect managers above employees- absolutely they will accept their grievances etc and make sure all their policies are followed but ultimately (and this is important) they are not there to help the employee, do you know of any managers that were fired after a HR complaint? I sure dont and I have worked in a lot of places. HR are a kind of cement to go over the faults of bullying bosses or dodgy Health and Safety issues- they will investigate but 100% of the time the company will end up smelling of roses.

I hope the OP doesnt rely soley on the HR dept. if they go down that route as a union rep is more helpful in their particular case..

I don't agree, but it's not going to help the op if this carries on.

Stheno

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I never said the man is always out to get the workers, my point is HR will protect managers above employees- absolutely they will accept their grievances etc and make sure all their policies are followed but ultimately (and this is important) they are not there to help the employee, do you know of any managers that were fired after a HR complaint? I sure dont and I have worked in a lot of places. HR are a kind of cement to go over the faults of bullying bosses or dodgy Health and Safety issues- they will investigate but 100% of the time the company will end up smelling of roses.

I hope the OP doesnt rely soley on the HR dept. if they go down that route as a union rep is more helpful in their particular case..

Yes one manager fired in one company and another sidelined to have a non people managing role

Mrs OBumble

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

HR protects the company and all its managers, good or bad. Unions protect the employees and their rights.

Virtually all managers are also employees.

An employee won't (usually) get fired for screwing up one order, task, assignment, whatever. In most cases, there will be an investigation, written warning, chance to improve performance, etc.

Same for managers. Most won't get fired for screwing up managing one person or one team or one budget - or even having union membership in their team rise from 5% to 95% in one week! They will get investigated, warned, coaching and a chance to improve their performance. If they still don't improve, they'll get fired, just like the rest of us. If they get fired without fair processes, they can take a case like the rest of us.

And yes, I can name some managers who got either fired or demoted / shifted sideways. I've also worked for some who deserved to get this but didn't - just like I've worked with some employees who didn't.

tatli_lokma

I too have seen managers get chewed out by HR, and even sacked or demoted. In some cases it was a case of the middle manager being a scapegoat for the senior managers, but mostly it was down to being deserved. HR are not impartial, of course not. But their job is to protect the company from being liable - and if a manager is leaving the company wide open to a court case then the manager in question is going to be taken to task on it.