Is "Anonymous" right to expose possible small-minded sick town culture?

Biggins

My name is URL wrote: »

...Innocent people will undoubtedly get hurt if faceless and unknown people are seen to be considered as judge, jury & executioners.

I certainly agree that in most cases, the above rings very true.
In this one case it looks like Anon' very, very much indeed has been right to do what they did.
Especially when they now know of more possible victims.
(I'm fairly sure they have provided this possible additional information to someone that they think will chase it up - I hope they have.)

Absolutely. This is disgusting behaviour but the attempt to cover it up is even worse.

Even in some parts of Ireland I've seen school kids get away with everything because they were on the school GAA or basketball teams.

jill_valentine

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, that is terrible, Its the stuff that you would imagine would be in a novel, The whole town basically covering up the gangrape and protecting the fukkin football team and telling the girl its here fault for being drunk when she was givin a date rape drug. Honestly this is just a westernized version of what went on in india minus the iron bar and the beatings. It just goes to show again that people are arseholes, when there is money at stake, people will protect the money rather than acknowledge the awful truth and expose the animals for what they are and shame their whole hometown. Yes i agree wholeheartedly that anon did the right thing here and show up the town for what it is

It's not just the money though. In a small town, there's a tendency to "protect their own", as if crimes like this don't really count if they're done by people you know. Ah shur, they're good lads really, they just lost the run of themselves/ boys will be boys/ shur his poor father worked with me for years, what'll it do to him?

I'd say most people on boards would have an idea of how easily and frequently drink driving crashes and stuff like that can be swallowed up in small towns. Because "ah, he was just acting the eejit, he has his whole life ahead of him etc etc."

And honestly, I can't remember the last thread about a rape conviction in Ireland here where somebody didn't come in with the classic "I'm sure there's more to the story...etc" line within the first few pages.

JupiterKid

Yes. Absolutely yes. Name and shame.

emzolita

if this is the story that had the documentary about it it's very hazy. The girl says no in the video, but then later is sitting in her nip rubbing herself, asking the guy to do stuff to her. it's all very strange.

Chuck Stone

emzolita wrote: »

if this is the story that had the documentary about it it's very hazy. The girl says no in the video, but then later is sitting in her nip rubbing herself, asking the guy to do stuff to her. it's all very strange.

My name is URL

emzolita wrote: »

if this is the story that had the documentary about it it's very hazy. The girl says no in the video, but then later is sitting in her nip rubbing herself, asking the guy to do stuff to her. it's all very strange.

You mean "A Question of Consent"? It's not related to that at all.

Biggins

emzolita wrote: »

if this is the story that had the documentary about it it's very hazy. The girl says no in the video, but then later is sitting in her nip rubbing herself, asking the guy to do stuff to her. it's all very strange.

There is that aspect which could be viewed by some but remember about the actual age of the girl and additionally the state she was in when the rape supposedly took place.

1. She was legally much under age and
2. She was unconscious (this was even video commented upon by one person I believe) and thus in no state to say "Yes" or "No".

Lone Stone

I just read all that on the website there, thats seriously messed up stuff but it shows the power of the internet and how it should be used for the good of people, and it should be kept that way. Anonymous ftw.

Fox_In_Socks

I don't know how I feel about this. I read it and yeah, I agree that something needed to be done to expose them. But what if they got their facts wrong and exposed someone who was totally innocent or has the same name as that person in the town?

RDM_83 again

Normally don't really agree with these leaking of things before a court case comes up but that seems pretty amazingly shocking and is a great argument for non-local led policing!

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeah.

In fairness thats not a particularly good example because that case was a bit confusing on the first read in terms of the convictions and description, meaning people probably read it thinking that the rape conviction was handed out to the first guy that she went to the room with because she was too drunk to give consent, where as far as I understand it, it was thought reasonable by the jury that she consented to sex with him (I understand that consent can be withdrawn at anytime obviously) but not the other two lads because she had passed out by that stage. Though I'm not reading through 49 pages of posts because I'm sure probably somebody did say something offensive there

Czarcasm wrote: »

Yet another example.

Because Slapper was used in the OP? Actually genuinely confused by this one
Edit Ok I see you point after reading on a page or two but haulagebasher (who I presume your refering to) I would really hope was trolling (and was banned)

emzolita wrote: »

if this is the story that had the documentary about it it's very hazy. The girl says no in the video, but then later is sitting in her nip rubbing herself, asking the guy to do stuff to her. it's all very strange.

say thats something different alright can't see a documentary coming out till after court.

Biggins

im invisible wrote: »

i think i saw this film

I'm not sure if you were jesting or not but in reality, there is apparently some true life films out there (my wife tells me and I vaguely remember them) made for TV which document similar occurrences before.

midlands paranormal researcher

yes

Czarcasm

jill_valentine wrote: »

It's not just the money though. In a small town, there's a tendency to "protect their own", as if crimes like this don't really count if they're done by people you know. Ah shur, they're good lads really, they just lost the run of themselves/ boys will be boys/ shur his poor father worked with me for years, what'll it do to him?

I'd say most people on boards would have an idea of how easily and frequently drink driving crashes and stuff like that can be swallowed up in small towns. Because "ah, he was just acting the eejit, he has his whole life ahead of him etc etc."

And honestly, I can't remember the last thread about a rape conviction in Ireland here where somebody didn't come in with the classic "I'm sure there's more to the story...etc" line within the first few pages.

Such as this case not so long ago-

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/bouncer-gets-seven-years-for-sex-assault-1978715.html

The courtroom also witnessed extraordinary scenes as 50 people, mostly middle-aged and elderly men, queued past the press box to shake the hand of the convicted man and hug him after he was brought from the cell to the dock.

I imagine cases like that in the OP, and the case above, happen a hell of a lot more often than people would like to believe, but they manage to be better covered up is all.

woodoo

Very interesting piece i hope these guys are jailed. Horrible pricks.

Biggins

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

I don't know how I feel about this. I read it and yeah, I agree that something needed to be done to expose them. But what if they got their facts wrong and exposed someone who was totally innocent or has the same name as that person in the town?

It appears that there has been a lot of fact checking and verification done by one site alone.
It being America, I'm sure this was done alone to cover their backside legally against liable/slander litigation as much as possible.
They state this themselves quite clearly.

As the town appears small (although no numbers are given I think) enough, I'm also assuming that those named will be easily distinguishable and locally known.
(Open to be wrong)

If there was two people with same names - what they do alone might let people know who is the right person and who is the wrong person.
Silly example: There could be a 18 year old "Joe Smith" on a football team and another 80 year old "Joe Smith" living on a farm/different area.
Which one would most people think was involved in a teenage rape and attended a party full of teens with recording mobiles.

strandroad

NYT article from Dec 16 2012 - in comparison to Anonymous files see how little is known, how the article is sympathetic towards the boys/team and how its opinion is coloured against the victim and the blogger.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-case-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html

ETA: some more from Jezebel.com on how the story was (not) unfolding before Anonymous.

http://jezebel.com/5969076/we-wouldnt-know-about-the-steubenville-rape-case-if-it-wasnt-for-the-blogger-who-complicated-things

Jezebel has a whole series of articles on college/football rapes. It's almost a category in itself. I read it only occasionally and there is always one case or another going on.

StinkyMunkey

Now that its out in the open, find a tree and hang the rapists.

Then publically flog all the inbreds that covered it up.

jill_valentine

mhge wrote: »

NYT article from Dec 16 2012 - in comparison to Anonymous files see how little is known, how the article is sympathetic towards the boys/team and how its opinion is coloured against the victim and the blogger.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-case-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html

Chilling. Genuinely chilling.

He said that online photographs and posts could ultimately be “a gift” for his client’s case because the girl, before that night in August, had posted provocative comments and photographs on her Twitter page over time. He added that those online posts demonstrated that she was sexually active and showed that she was “clearly engaged in at-risk behavior.”

strandroad

jill_valentine wrote: »

Chilling. Genuinely chilling.

Yes, and note how NYT repeats it without a word of comment, while there is plenty of innuendo towards the girl and the blogger.

Biggins

mhge wrote: »

NYT article from Dec 16 2012 - in comparison to Anonymous files see how little is known, how the article is sympathetic towards the boys/team and how its opinion is coloured against the victim and the blogger.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-case-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html

Thanks.

That one article alone exposes the bad thinking there was previously to Anon' exposing the issue further.

One example from your link:

This season, the coach, who is used to winning, had to do without Mays and Richmond. But others who were at the parties and might have witnessed the suspected assault continued to play on the team. Saccoccia, a 63-year-old who brims with bravado, was the sole person in charge of determining whether any players would be punished.

Saccoccia, pronounced SOCK-otch, told the principal and school superintendent that the players who posted online photographs and comments about the girl the night of the parties said they did not think they had done anything wrong. Because of that, he said, he had no basis for benching those players.

I read the above alone with incredulity.
No basis for benching his players?
They were only present at a possible rape, maybe witnessed it, maybe could have given evidence and/or spoke up for the girl, done or said anything previously?

...But no, the team must be able to play on!
Some things continue to bewilder me at times...

I mean what the hell!
What about posting under-age sexual related pics?
I think that alone might be illegal enough to warrant something by the coach?

The latter parts of that article are certainly biased towards the team - its all it goes on about at one stage.
How just the team might be effected!
What about the victim?

I suppose what can one expect - the paper posted about the rape of the girl into its sports section - not even into its very news section!
Depressing mentality.

PC CDROM

We were raped and it is being covered up

Damn politicians!

up for anything

Biggins wrote: »

No basis for benching his players?
They were only present at a possible rape, maybe witnessed it, maybe could have given evidence and/or spoke up for the girl, done or said anything previously?

...But no, the team must be able to play on!
Some things continue to bewilder me at times...

I mean what the hell!
What about posting under-age sexual related pics?
I think that alone might be illegal enough to warrant something by the coach?

You're shocked by the coach's attitude! Allegedly he is as bad as all the rest involved in this disgusting incident.

Coach Saccoccia’s motto to his boys is: “lie till you die”. The moment he became aware of the gang rape he attempted to hold off sheriff deputies when they seized the telephones and other electronic items belonging to the perpetrators, meanwhile encouraging his “boys” to delete everything.

Biggins

up for anything wrote: »

You're shocked by the coach's attitude! Allegedly he is as bad as all the rest involved in this disgusting incident.

Sadly indeed so.

strandroad

up for anything wrote: »

You're shocked by the coach's attitude! Allegedly he is as bad as all the rest involved in this disgusting incident.

It is an amazing experience to read the NYT article with the Anonymous who's who in hand. You get a glimpse of how the media operate. I would expect better from NYT.

Gyalist

I know of an incident where two boys from a well-known Dublin rugby-playing school gave a girl some sort of animal sedative (one of the boys father is a vet) and raped her at a party.

jluv

Having lived in the USA for nearly 20 years,while I'm shocked and appauled by what happened to this girl,I'm not shocked by the "cover up". It seemed the be all and end all to be a "jock". For parents it is bragging rights plus scholarships to the best colleges which would otherwise cost a fortune. For schools it means funding and again bragging rights. It really is just like the movies where girls will always want to be the girlfriend of the captain of the team. Social media has IMO for once been a positive to highlight this injustice and hopefully send a message that indeed this type of behavior is not above the law and can no longer be covered up to "save the reputation of the "jock" or the school.
On wondering why they did this? Perhaps because they've been adored,pandered to and led to believe that they can do no wrong as long as they play good football,they simply believed it..

strandroad

jluv wrote: »

On wondering why they did this? Perhaps because they've been adored,pandered to and led to believe that they can do no wrong as long as they play good football,they simply believed it..

Also from what the files say it is suspected that she was not the only victim, there could be a few others before her. It's likely that nothing happened afterwards and they got bolder.

Son Of A Vidic

Biggins wrote: »

Is "Anonymous" right to expose possible small-minded sick town culture?

Yes, yes and yes again.

A_Sober_Paddy

Yes of course...

By any standard, the actions of the rapists and the town in general is criminal and immoral, anyone involved should be punished to the fullest extend of the law

jill_valentine

mhge wrote: »

Jezebel has a whole series of articles on college/football rapes. It's almost a category in itself. I read it only occasionally and there is always one case or another going on.

College rape and its association with bro culture is scary stuff, and weirdly under the radar even as rape reporting goes. The following stuff refers to fraternities, but a lot of it would seem relevant to football teams and the like too -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_rape

Fifty-five to seventy percent of gang rape perpetrators belong to fraternities. Eighty-six percent of off-campus attempted rape or sexual assaults are at fraternity houses.[11] College gang rape tends to be perpetrated by middle- to upper-class men.[12]

There are higher incidents of gang rape within fraternities for many reasons: peer acceptance, alcohol use, the acceptance of rape myths and viewing women as sexualized objects, as well as the highly masculinized environment. The Neumann study found that fraternity members are more likely than other college students to engage in rape.[11] Part of the prevalence of fraternity rape may be due to the fact that some colleges do not have complete control over the privately-owned fraternity houses

Twenty-five percent of American college males admitted to sexual coercion in some form.[1] Another study done by the National Institute of Justice estimated that one-fifth to one-fourth of women in college are victims of sexual assault

Higher

Gyalist wrote: »

I know of an incident where two boys from a well-known Dublin rugby-playing school gave a girl some sort of animal sedative (one of the boys father is a vet) and raped her at a party.

I'm sure you do :rolleyes:

Gyalist

Higher wrote: »

I'm sure you do :rolleyes:

Whether you choose to believe it or not does not alter the fact that it happened. You'd no doubt prefer to believe that these things only happen in other countries.

up for anything

Gyalist wrote: »

Whether you choose to believe it or not does not alter the fact that it happened. You'd no doubt prefer to believe that these things only happen in other countries.

Have you been to the Gardaí with your information?

Gyalist

up for anything wrote: »

Have you been to the Gardaí with your information?

No. How would that work? "I'm here to report a suspected rape on a person who doesn't want to press charges". The girl in question hasn't even told her parents what happened to her.

Biggins

Gyalist wrote: »

No. How would that work? "I'm here to report a suspected rape on a person who doesn't want to press charges". The girl in question hasn't even told her parents what happened to her.

"Dear Sir/Madam.

I believe a crime has been committed against a person.
I think the persons parents are unaware of the crime and the victim wishes this to remain that way.
Meanwhile the terrible culprits are getting away with their actions.
Is there anything you can do discreetly to look into or resolve the matter?"

...Or words to that effect!

I would not only be thinking of the girl as a victim - I would also be mindful of any future ones which might be created by my inaction!
...Maybe my daughter or equally, someone elses daughter.

Steodonn

Is the girl under-age ?

If yes its an offence not to report it

Gyalist

Biggins wrote: »

"Dear Sir/Madam.

I believe a crime has been committed against a person.
I think the persons parents are unaware of the crime and the victims wishes this to remain that way.
Meanwhile the terrible culprits are getting away with their actions.
Is there anything you can do discreetly to look into or resolve the matter?"

...Or words to that effect!

I would not only be thinking of the girl as a victim - I would also be mindful of any future ones which might be created by my inaction!

I'd have no legal standing as anything I reported would be hearsay. I was told of the incident by her best friend.

Steodonn wrote: »

Is the girl under-age ?

If yes its an offence not to report it

No, she had just completed her LC.

skyfall2012

I saw a report like this about 10 years ago some college kids in the US raping and recording the rape, they had a party which 2 call girls were invited to, one of the call girls left after a while but the other one did drugs with them and well the images I saw still haunt me today. It was so depraved.

Biggins

Gyalist wrote: »

I'd have no legal standing as anything I reported would be hearsay. I was told of the incident by her best friend.

I honestly understand the position you were/are in.
Its a tough one.
The only thing I can add is that a clue the Gardi might further gain by even speaking to someone, might put them on track further with any prior cases which might have occurred.
Any more even trails of possible evident is better than nothing at all.

Again, I understand the position you was/is in so I cannot throw stones when I haven't been in your predicament.

Gyalist

It's a dilemma alright.
Meanwhile the guys have gone to college and the girl, who had been accepted to study medicine, still hasn't and is a shadow of her former self.

jonsnow

Do many other people know?Have the guys been ostracised by the circle they were in or has everyone closed ranks around them

anhedonia

I hope they nail that b1tch prosecutor and her son to the cross!
Absolute kunt.

jonsnow

It is a dilemma all right because although it is absolutely the girls right not to bring any charges are pursue it any further if that is what she wants. However you should tip off the guards because these guys are out in college doing god knows what to other vulnerable girls.

Herb Powell

I don't see this is "mob justice", as some people are saying. All Anonymous have done here is expose the attempted cover up, and release information, as oppsed to enacting justice. The law still has to deal with "The Rape Crew" as they see fit.

Gyalist

jonsnow wrote: »

Do many other people know?Have the guys been ostracised by the circle they were in or has everyone closed ranks around them

Apparently some in her social circle know. The guys were popular sportsmen and ranks were closed. If it had been my daughter I'd probably be the one serving time now.

jonsnow

Often in these cases its guys taking advantage of girls that are already troubled or from a more vulnerable background.But shes a top student probably from a similar background to the perpetrators who you would think would have a lot of credibility with the same ingroup. Its shocking that they protect the perpetrators and disbelieve someone who has from what you have described completely transformed in such a short period of time.Its very very depressing.The most chilling thing to me is the premeditation involved in relation to the tranquiliser. Really shocking stuff.

I,ve just realised that the above comment could refer to either the anonymous case or the irish case which gyalist has described.I guess the dynamics are the same whether Ireland or america - a privileged background and a sporty jock mentality does seem to create a toxic mix

Hippies!

I'm drunk and everything is blurry and too long to read...What I gather is internet geeks interfering with the process of justice etc? Possibly.... technicalities... case getting thrown out of court over something these lads do....probably. Didn't read anything about a cover up except for a sentence saying "silence" blah blah blah....let the police deal with it, they're probably doing a good job.

RobbingBandit

Anyone that has seen Married with Children will know how high school football is held in esteem in red neck American culture, "four touchdowns in a single game" these ****brains are treat like gods and will probably end up selling women's shoes for a living holding onto long forgotten triumphs as their life achievements.

DjFlin

Hippies! wrote: »

I'm drunk and everything is blurry and too long to read...What I gather is internet geeks interfering with the process of justice etc? Possibly.... technicalities... case getting thrown out of court over something these lads do....probably. Didn't read anything about a cover up except for a sentence saying "silence" blah blah blah....let the police deal with it, they're probably doing a good job.

Go home Hippies...