Is "Anonymous" right to expose possible small-minded sick town culture?

Biggins

Dravokivich wrote: »

...I'd much rather if this was uncovered and made public by a publicly identifiable body.

That it seems now going to happen more so.
CNN have now sent in investigation teams apparently (besides the State Governor ordered investigation now).
Other USA news networks I'm guessing are also going to be all over this now too.
Not including possible other international ones.

There will certainly be further questions asked about:

* The Sheriff
* The Sports Coach
* The County Prosecutor
* Others that might have deleted evidence (or who told them to)

Just to begin with.

I honestly don't think vigilante justice is good in the long run - but as we know, there is always an exception to every rule.

This case could be the one RARE exception where such actions as Anon' have been to the betterment of the whole rape/cover-up scandal.

strandroad

Dravokivich wrote: »

The scandal in that town is just is wrong and I'm not disputing it. I'd much rather if this was uncovered and made public by a publicly identifiable body.

Me too of course, but it wasn't happening.

jpm4

Dravokivich wrote: »

No,

It's not right to me that a group of unidentified people can do something like this. There's no deniability/accountability/responsibility on their part for the actions which they've choosen to take. It's this very reason I'm anti-anonymous.

The scandal in that town is just is wrong and I'm not disputing it. I'd much rather if this was uncovered and made public by a publicly identifiable body.

The blind worship they have is amazing to me...

Agree this with....Anonymous could be pretty much anybody or group of people as far as I can see, with their own agendas and values. We are heading into dangerous territory if this kind of thing is condoned.

jill_valentine

Dravokivich wrote: »

No,

It's not right to me that a group of unidentified people can do something like this. There's no deniability/accountability/responsibility on their part for the actions which they've choosen to take. It's this very reason I'm anti-anonymous.

The scandal in that town is just is wrong and I'm not disputing it. I'd much rather if this was uncovered and made public by a publicly identifiable body.

On the other hand, clearly, no publicly identifiable body was ever going to uncover it, by the look of things. So is it better to have the rock turned over in a slightly dubious way, or to leave the situation to continue indefinitely?

Remember, not only was there a whole town involved in hiding this, and not only were there probably more victims of this particular bunch of guys, it's starting to look like these aren't even the first generation of Big Red players to get away with it. If Anonymous hadn't done this, there could be another couple of girls next year and the year after that...

Dravokivich

I understand what you're saying Biggins and get it. I truly do. But for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I can never side along with it. Its good that there's indications of proper progress and change. I just don't like how the catalyst for it is triggered.

Jill Valentine,
It's my overall opinion of Anon and how they operate. I'm not going to dissuade from it for an emotionally stirring topic such as the gang rapes referenced in this thread.

gingernut125

Biggins wrote: »

That it seems now going to happen more so.
CNN have now sent in investigation teams apparently (besides the State Governor ordered investigation now).
Other USA news networks I'm guessing are also going to be all over this now.
Not including possible other international ones.

There will certainly be further questions asked about:

* The Sheriff
* The Sports Coach
* The County Prosecutor
* Others that might have deleted evidence (or who told them to)

Just to begin with.

I honestly don't think vigilante justice is good in the long rune - but as we know, there is always an exception to every rule.

This case could be the one RARE exception where such actions as Anon' have been to the betterment of the whole rape/cover-up.

I agree, I'm not a fan of the idea of anonymous, but this culture has to be exposed, it's really upsetting that this happened and so many people knew about it. Poor girl, her life must be ruined.

I bet these boys (wouldn't call them men) never anticipated what would happen to them of they found themselves in prison...

Biggins

Dravokivich wrote: »

I understand what you're saying Biggins and get it. I truly do. But for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I can never side along with it. Its good that there's indications of proper progress and change. I just don't like how the catalyst for it is triggered.

Thats fair enough.
Your being honest and straight forward.

I can only add that up till now, the cover-up had been got away with and could have continued unabated otherwise.

Rayne Wooney

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Right..............so a photo of a girl hanging limply between two lads. She could be playacting.

A photo of a girl hanging limply between two lads, emerging alongside a video saying 'Trent raped her, they stuck a wang in her butthole and she didnt react', Trent Mays being identified as the man in the photo holding her. Another footballer saying he was in the back of a car with Trent, the man identified in the photo holding her limp body, saying that he was exposing her breasts and digitally penetrating her.

All of the above, and you decide to throw out the nonsensical argument that she could be playacting, that is pure garbage to anyone reading this.

It's so stupid I don't even know how, or have the slightest desire to engage with you anymore.

Ah, making stuff up again, and backing it up with more nonsense, I'm finished, it would be stupid to reply anymore.......







So anyway, Trent Mays Twitter page is still open and his Tweets from after the rape are far from remorseful.


@TrentMays_12
"Karma? #shīt

"#shutup"

"Ima snap"

"I hope guys actually find out what happened"

"I'm so mad like I'm gonna get in so much so for doing a favour forreal"

strandroad

Dravokivich wrote: »

I understand what you're saying Biggins and get it. I truly do. But for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I can never side along with it. Its good that there's indications of proper progress and change. I just don't like how the catalyst for it is triggered.

I would agree with you more if it was about an individual crime and they exposed evidence against an individual, in a properly functioning justice system (that should have been sent in to the authorities, not posted on the net). But here what they are getting at is that the crime is systemic and as such cannot resolve itself.

Dravokivich

mhge wrote: »

I would agree with you more if it was about an individual crime and they exposed evidence against an individual, in a properly functioning justice system (that should have been sent in to the authorities, not posted on the net). But here what they are getting at is that the crime is systemic and as such cannot resolve itself.

Yet they still have no accountability or responsibility towards what they've done, because there is no "they."

It's the same regardless of the scale of the issue they choose to act on.

strandroad

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yet they still have no accountability or responsibility towards what they've done, because there is no "they."

It's the same regardless of the scale of the issue they choose to act on.

It's a fair point which requires the weighing of good vs risk from their actions.

But in terms of "there's no they" I believe that should an American national agency want to find them, they would do it in a day.

skyfall2012

But for the reasons I mentioned earlier, I can never side along with it. Its good that there's indications of proper progress and change. I just don't like how the catalyst for it is triggered

I agree with this poster. There has been many cases of cover ups that have been brought into the light, without having to do it illegally to site a famous example 'Erin Brockovich'.

These 'Anonymous' people hacked someones emails illegally and that evidence cannot be used in court, so what is the point. Also, they are not qualified to judge the evidence for themselves, this evidence should be handed over to the proper authorities.

How often have we seen movies where the mob thinks this happened hanged the person and turns out they were wrong. But yes it may really look like what you think, but it may not be. I have watched youtube videos I believed until I was told they were fakes e.g. the balloon boy.

I would rather the experts we appoint to make a judgement and not guys who are breaking the law and not identifying themselves making that judgement and making the evidence public. Everybody is entitled to a trial.

Biggins

skyfall2012 wrote: »

...I would rather the experts we appoint to make a judgement and not guys who are breaking the law and not identifying themselves making that judgement and making the evidence public. Everybody is entitled to a trial.

We all would hope the experts take over - however as it turns out now, the country prosecutor (who's son is allegedly involved in the rape incident - and it part supposedly happened at her house) nearly managed to kill off the whole case, nothing more would have happened possibly and the many culprits would have got away - maybe to repeat their actions further.

This case is the rare exception to a rule more do believe in, I think.
I'm glad in this case, Anon' has stepped in and made a difference.

anhedonia

I just read on CNN that the FBI are offering technical assistance for the case.

I'd say anyone guilty of wrongdoing here is gonna get nailed bigtime.

There's such a huge digital footprint surrounding this rape: tweets, videos, messages, blogs.

Then there seems to be plenty of eyewitness testimony, with a lot more to follow i'd say when heavy charges are laid and more people roll.

Plus the whole world is beginning to focus intensely on this making it really high profile.

Im confident every one of these guys is gonna get nailed, and also those responsible for attempted cover-up.

KamiKazeKitten

The poor girl. I saw the video earlier and it's really haunting, I've been thinking about it all evening. That video of the jock talking...it's just chilling how someone can have so little empathy for another person.

That said - I'm not sure how I feel about Anonymous, of course I support these guys being brought to court and (hopefully!) locked up for years. It's just that Anonymous could be anyone... I don't know, it doesn't sit right with me. (Aware I'm not phrasing this well but oh well )

jill_valentine

Dravokivich wrote: »

Jill Valentine,
It's my overall opinion of Anon and how they operate. I'm not going to dissuade from it for an emotionally stirring topic such as the gang rapes referenced in this thread.

My point is more that they almost inarguably prevented further rapes being committed by pulling Big Red under the spotlight. I have reservations about this method of justice, but in this particular case it seems to me that the "wrong" committed by Anonymous is substantially outweighed by the benefit of breaking the cycle, and they made a point of doing their homework first in order to minimise unwarranted fallout.

In other words, if they were in a position to intervene as they did, and chose not to, wouldn't that be even more morally wrong?

Dravokivich

jill_valentine wrote: »

My point is more that they almost inarguably prevented further rapes being committed by pulling Big Red under the spotlight. I have reservations about this method of justice, but in this particular case it seems to me that the "wrong" committed by Anonymous is substantially outweighed by the benefit of breaking the cycle, and they made a point of doing their homework first in order to minimise unwarranted fallout.

In other words, if they were in a position to intervene as they did, and chose not to, wouldn't that be even more morally wrong?

To me it's not about any perceived wrong doing they've done before. I don't agree with how Anon operate and will not support it. This is regardless of what they target and their intentions behind it, whether it is morally sound or not doesn't come into it.

Kerrigooney

I just found this thread now and I haven't read any of the comments but that's one of the most disturbing things I've ever read.

It's kind of ruined my evening tbh.

jill_valentine

Dravokivich wrote: »

To me it's not about any perceived wrong doing they've done before. I don't agree with how Anon operate and will not support it. This is regardless of what they target and their intentions behind it, whether it is morally sound or not doesn't come into it.

If the "legitimate" system is broken to the point of facilitating further crimes without consequence, at what point does it become acceptable - or even a moral obligation - to start operating outside it?

I mean, if the police force and prosecutor are involved in systematically erasing a series of crimes of this magnitude, and can do so without any serious challenge - Steubenville has a decades-old reputation for police brutality and corruption, incidentally - then what moral authority can it assert by comparison?

Biggins

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I just found this thread now and I haven't read any of the comments but that's one of the most disturbing things I've ever read.

It's kind of ruined my evening tbh.

Sorry.

midlandsmissus

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I just found this thread now and I haven't read any of the comments but that's one of the most disturbing things I've ever read.

It's kind of ruined my evening tbh.

Which is one of the most disturbing things you've ever read?

Kerrigooney

Biggins wrote: »

Sorry.

Haha. You're sound.:)

I'm glad I read it but it's tough going at times.

I might go back and read the whole thread now or would that ruin my Saturday night even more?

Kerrigooney

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Which is one of the most disturbing things you've ever read?

The Local Leaks article.

I just realised I didn't make that clear. Sorry. I wasn't talking about anyone above me.

Biggins

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Haha. You're sound.:)

I'm glad I read it but it's tough going at times.

I might go back and read the whole thread now or would that ruin my Saturday night even more?

Enjoy the rest of your night.
Read the bulk tomorrow.

gingernut125

Where would be the best place to follow this story?

Annasopra

gingernut125 wrote: »

Where would be the best place to follow this story?

This is quite a good summary

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/03/1176096/-The-Steubenville-Gang-Rape-A-Timeline

Biggins

mango salsa wrote: »

This is quite a good summary

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/03/1176096/-The-Steubenville-Gang-Rape-A-Timeline

The Motownballer piece in that is alone shocking reading. Terrible.

The fact that she was apparently kidnapped and drugged to the party he refers to, is beyond the brain of the idiot that wrote it!

nocoverart

This is a crazy and devastating story! like something out of a film. Anonymous are doing some great work with this

seenitall

nocoverart wrote: »

like something out of a film.

Of course, this will be a major Hollywood drama, in the vein of "Boys Don't Cry", before you can say 'All Of The "Rape Crew" Up On Charges'. You read it here first.

The scum will have to change identities once they've served time. Pity, that, I'd prefer to see all of their lives ruined instead. Like they did to their victim/s.

I would support work such as Anonymous have undertaken in any case such as this, where the justice has most blatantly been disregarded in favour of power, arrogance and corruption.

Dravokivich

jill_valentine wrote: »

If the "legitimate" system is broken to the point of facilitating further crimes without consequence, at what point does it become acceptable - or even a moral obligation - to start operating outside it?

I mean, if the police force and prosecutor are involved in systematically erasing a series of crimes of this magnitude, and can do so without any serious challenge - Steubenville has a decades-old reputation for police brutality and corruption, incidentally - then what moral authority can it assert by comparison?

You are missing what I'm saying because you are sticking with this one incident fresh in mind and attaching a sense of insconsideration on my part to the victim.

All I have said and will continue to say is I don't agree with how anon operate, regardless of their motives. There is no means by which they are responsibile for them.

That does not mean I don't agree with people finding out about a scandal and turning a blind eye to it. what i dont agree with is how theres no accountability on their part at all for any actions taken by them under the veil of "anonymous."

midlandsmissus

Any news sites reporting it?

Biggins

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Any news sites reporting it?

Irish ones or USA?

USA one's certainly - although they are not willing to give it that same coverage yet as the rapes that happened in India - even though, it looks like the "Rape crew" might have previous victims unlike the India situation.

Even Roseanne Barr, the USA actress/comedian has come out and offered to help publicise the fiasco: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/roseanne-barrs-anti-rape-crusade
Other USA stars are going on American radio/tv today to speak about the case apparently - as some of them are from the area.

The rest of the worlds media is just playing catch-up.

Sky news has reported it already briefly, just mentioning that city and police officials of the town have set-up their own plain site to get their say: http://news.sky.com/story/1033901/ohio-rape-website-seeks-to-calm-media-furore

jpm4

jill_valentine wrote: »

If the "legitimate" system is broken to the point of facilitating further crimes without consequence, at what point does it become acceptable - or even a moral obligation - to start operating outside it?

I mean, if the police force and prosecutor are involved in systematically erasing a series of crimes of this magnitude, and can do so without any serious challenge - Steubenville has a decades-old reputation for police brutality and corruption, incidentally - then what moral authority can it assert by comparison?

What is the alternative then? Trust 100% in a completely anonymous, unaccountable organisation that could have any agenda of it's own? And assume they are infallible?

Am not saying the status quo is ideal at all, but if a lot of people think the above is a good idea then I am very worried. People have been watching too much Death Wish and Batman.

EoghanIRL

i would think so

Biggins

jpm4 wrote: »

What is the alternative then? Trust 100% in a completely anonymous, unaccountable organisation that could have any agenda of it's own? And assume they are infallible?

Am not saying the status quo is ideal at all, but if a lot of people think the above is a good idea then I am very worried. People have been watching too much Death Wish and Batman.

What would you have done then?
Lets hear your solution that you would have done, when the even the sheriff, the county prosecutor and the sports coach all apparently tried to make sure the thing never got to court!

What would you have done?

My name is URL

Now that the thing has been uncovered and is in full public view, where's the need for them to continue infringing on people's privacy etc? They've started to release voicemails of people connected to the main suspect. People who may very well be completely unconnected to and unaware of what had happened. Seems a bit overkill to me.

With all the talk of cyber-bullying on here lately, I'd be interested to hear what peoples views are on this aspect of 'Anon's' operation. Should people have their names dragged through the mud at the behest of a faceless mob on the internet?

Biggins

My name is URL wrote: »

...They've started to release voicemails of people connected to the main suspect....

What does the voice-mails contain?
Evidence that there was collusion to cover-up and/or evidence that some also know about the crime or were part of it?

If the voice-mails contain further evidence that so far local authorises suspiciously already was willing to overlook, I think they are right to say "hey, looks here's more evidence."

If its clear JUST bullying - it is not on.

jpm4

Biggins wrote: »

What would you have done then?
Lets hear your solution that you would have done, when the even the sheriff, the county prosecutor and the sports coach all apparently tried to make sure the thing never got to court!

What would you have done?

I notice you haven't addressed what I posted. The "What would you have done then?" rejoiner is absurd to be honest, the equivalent of "If you don't like that film then you make a better one!". It's impossible to answer. Who am I? Where do I live and what do I know for sure about what has happened?

What happened that girl is appalling by the way.

GalwayGuy2

http://www.examiner.com/article/sheriff-abdalla-s-video-message-to-anonymous-i-m-coming-after-you

Link to the Sheriffs statement to anonymous, and then anonymous reply.

What do you think about either letter?

My name is URL

Biggins wrote: »

What does the voice-mails contain?
Evidence that there was collusion to cover-up and/or evidence that some also know about the crime or were part of it?

If the voice-mails contain further evidence that so far local authorises suspiciously already was willing to overlook, I think they are right to say "hey, looks here's more evidence."

If its clear JUST bullying - it is not on.

Well, phone numbers, names of individuals not implicated in the rape etc. It may not be 'bullying' in and of itself but it certainly opens up the possibility for those people to be targeted and harassed by a great number of persons.

How is it any different to posting the personal details of that KPMG girl for example?... neither have been accused of any crime.

shoos

jpm4 wrote: »

I notice you haven't addressed what I posted. The "What would you have done then?" rejoiner is absurd to be honest, the equivalent of "If you don't like that film then you make a better one!". It's impossible to answer. Who am I? Where do I live and what do I know for sure about what has happened?

What happened that girl is appalling by the way.

I don't know, I really don't agree with that comparison at all.

I think in such a unique case like this, knowing everything we know from what was being done pre-Anonymous to what's now happening post-Anonymous... it would be fair to ask you for an alternative to what could be done?

(Sorry to butt in with your discussion, just my two cents!)

karma_

My name is URL wrote: »

Well, phone numbers, names of individuals not implicated in the rape etc. It may not be 'bullying' in and of itself but it certainly opens up the possibility for those people to be targeted and harassed by a great number of persons.

How is it any different to posting the personal details of that KPMG girl for example?... neither have been accused of any crime.

The KPMG girl didn't rape anyone. These other pricks did, not only that they felt absolutely no remorse for it, thought it was a great laugh and almost got away with it.

Fcuk them.

Biggins

My name is URL wrote: »

Well, phone numbers, names of individuals not implicated in the rape etc. It may not be 'bullying' in and of itself but it certainly opens up the possibility for those people to be targeted and harassed by a great number of persons.

How is it any different to posting the personal details of that KPMG girl for example?... neither have been accused of any crime.

You won't find me disagreeing with you over the phone numbers and addresses, etc aspect.
Thats just not on.
Highlight the evidence if any that might have been tried to be hidden and they should leave it at that or maintain that method of operation/town organised peaceful protest.

Rayne Wooney

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

http://www.examiner.com/article/sheriff-abdalla-s-video-message-to-anonymous-i-m-coming-after-you

Link to the Sheriffs statement to anonymous, and then anonymous reply.

What do you think about either letter?

The Sheriff is so caught out that he's making up new laws, saying that things which are perfectly legal are illegal.

Who knows how long he's been abusing his power for it needs to be investigated, I'm not familiar with the US ranking system but I believe the Sheriff is the most powerful law enforcer in the State. An investigation into him would have to come from very high up.

My name is URL

karma_ wrote: »

The KPMG girl didn't rape anyone. These other pricks did, not only that they felt absolutely no remorse for it, thought it was a great laugh and almost got away with it.

Fcuk them.

The people I'm talking about didn't rape anyone either, they're just known to those who are accused of rape. I guess they're guilty by association though... sure whatever makes people feel better I suppose.

GalwayGuy2

Who knows how long he's been abusing his power for it needs to be investigated, I'm not familiar with the US ranking system but I believe the Sheriff is the most powerful law enforcer in the State. An investigation into him would have to come from very high up.

Well, the FBI are offering their "assistance".

RUSTEDCORE

If only a keyboard could kill

Biggins

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

http://www.examiner.com/article/sheriff-abdalla-s-video-message-to-anonymous-i-m-coming-after-you

Link to the Sheriffs statement to anonymous, and then anonymous reply.

What do you think about either letter?

I read the Sheriffs statement and thought to myself "he's said absolutely nothing about chasing up other possible victims, he's said nothing about going after those that appears to have told students to destroy evidence, he's said nothing about others (including his friend - the coach) attempts to see that the case never got to court, he's said nothing about his un-willingness to investigate those that tried to force the parents into silence, he's said nothing about his and his own department actions in trying to play down the issue, he's said nothing about how the two lads so far have escaped possible kidnapping charges..."

His vitriol is only aimed at those that have exposes all that he is not willing to do - no surprise there then!

Biggins

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Well, the FBI are offering their "assistance".

"Technical assistance" - lets be correct.

In other worlds so far they are not sending in investigators of any kind.
The FBI is only allowing their lab services to be used to analyse the minimum of evidence that the useless sheriff has given over.

strandroad

Biggins wrote: »

I read the Sheriffs statement and thought to myself "he's said absolutely nothing about chasing up other possible victims, he's said nothing about going after those that appears to have told students to destroy evidence, he's said nothing about others attempts to see that the case never got to court, he's said nothing about his willingness to investigate those that tried to force the parents into silence, he's said nothing about his and his own department actions in trying to play down the issue, he's said nothing about how the two lads so far have escaped possible kidnapping charges...

Another victim is claiming that she was violently raped in 1995 and the sheriff told her she was asking for a good time. It's not said if it was anything to do with the team or not.
https://twitter.com/KYAnonymous/status/287776950028754944/photo/1