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electric shower

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  • 05-01-2013 12:56am
    #1
    navara man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 196 ✭✭


    would it be legal for a non electrician to wire up a new electric shower even if it done to same sandard of a qualified electrician ?


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    #2
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    This would be "permitted" once the work is certified.
    However it would probably be cheaper to pay an electrician to do it.

    EDIT: Correction, electrical work such as wiring a shower must be carried out by a qualified electrician.


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    #3
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    it can't be done to the same standard

    how is the non-electrician going to test his work-assuming he did everything right which is extremely unlikely ime?


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    #4
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    M cebee wrote: »
    it can't be done to the same standard
    Why not?
    If it is tested, passed and certified (and this can only be done by a suitably qualified person) it is up to the required standard
    how is the non-electrician going to test his work-assuming he did everything right which is extremely unlikely ime?
    Point taken, but this is a seperate question to what the OP asked.
    I wired, tested and had the installation certified before I qualified as an electrician, so it can be done.


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    #5
    Davy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    I may be wrong here, but always thought if you were being paid for a job, doing something outside your own home then you need to certified, insurance etc.


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    #6
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    2011 wrote: »
    Why not?
    If it is tested, passed and certified by (and this can only be done by a suitably qualified person) it is up to the required standard


    Point taken, but this is a seperate question to what the OP asked.
    I wired, tested and had the installation certified before I qualified as an electrician, so it can be done.

    non-electrician to me means handyman
    i just rule it out personally as i don't believe it's possible at all -based on what i've seen over the years


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    #7
    rockatansky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭rockatansky


    When you say wire up, are you talking about wiring it up from the main board, or just replacing an old shower with a new one?

    Is it legal for any one just to replace an old electric shower (in their own home) with a new one or would this have to be done by a qualified electrician also?


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    #8
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Davy wrote: »
    I may be wrong here, but always thought if you were being paid for a job, doing something outside your own home then you need to certified, insurance etc.

    I think you are correct about insurance. However the OP never mentioned payment or if the job in question was outside of his home.

    It is possible to get the ECSSA or RECI to certify (for a fee). I have done this in the past.

    Personally, I would only do electrical installation work if I had the correct insurance in place and was able to provide the correct paperwork (cert. etc.).


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    #9
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    I agree with the point of an non quailified person cannot carry out the works as good as a quailified person!

    Theres a reason we spend 4r5 years too finish our trade!!If you trust a "handy man" or "jack of all trades" with your life or better still your family's (yes thats what it boils down too) then go ahead! Water and Electricity has the potential too kill a person with just ONE small mistake
    Theres more too wireing an electric shower then running the cable

    *Earthing issue's
    *Main tail's
    *Bath & Hot press's bonded
    *Correct circut breaker's
    Etc Etc Etc


    Not as easy as Blue too Blue and Brown too Brown (From an electrcician of 15 years)


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    #10
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    yes
    -the non-electrician will connect up and hope it's alright
    -no testing
    -and what he doesn't know doesn't bother him

    that's what you get for your money


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    #11
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    I agree with the point of an non quailified person cannot carry out the works as good as a quailified person!

    Agreed, I too would expect a qualified person to produce a higher standard of work. But the question as to can someone that is not a qualified electrician can produce work of the same standard is a separate topic.

    Theres more too wireing an electric shower then running the cable

    *Earthing issue's
    *Main tail's
    *Bath & Hot press's bonded
    *Correct circut breaker's
    Etc Etc Etc

    Agreed totally and all of your points are valid, but the question the OP asked is a question of legality. The answer to that question is legally you do not have to be a qualified electrician. The fact that you and I may have fundamental issues with this is a separate matter.

    It is important to note that the OP specifically stated the work would be "done to same sandard of a qualified electrician". Therefore the answer only applies to that situation.
    From an electrcician of 15 years
    Points well made by an experienced electrician.
    ...from an electrician of over nearly 20 years :eek: God I feel old!


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    #12
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    M cebee wrote: »
    yes
    -the non-electrician will connect up and hope it's alright

    That is not what is suggested.

    My answer to the OP in my first reply is the opposite:
    "This would be "permitted" once the work is certified"

    In a nutshell, electrical work carried out by anyone to the correct standard that is certified (and therefore independently tested by a suitably qualified person) is permitted.


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    #13
    frankmul
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭frankmul


    My answer to the OP in my first reply is the opposite:
    "This would be "permitted" once the work is certified"

    In a nutshell, electrical work carried out by anyone to the correct standard that is certified (and therefore independently tested by a suitably qualified person) is permitted.[/Quote]

    are RECI and ECSSA issuing certs to people who are not qualified?


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    #14
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    frankmul wrote: »
    are RECI and ECSSA issuing certs to people who are not qualified?
    Yes, RECI did this for me before I was qualified.


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    #15
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    -reci won't issue a cert without PL
    -presumably you need a qualification to get PL

    -is none of this work restricted in any way to 'qualified' persons


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    #16
    leeomurchu
    Site Banned Posts: 957 ✭✭✭leeomurchu


    M cebee wrote: »
    -reci won't issue a cert without PL
    -presumably you need a qualification to get PL

    -is none of this work restricted in any way to 'qualified' persons

    Eccsa will issue a cert without public liability but I don't think either of them will issue a cert to an unqualified spark. I think it states on the cert that the qualified electrician who carried out the work has to be present on site when testing is being carried out and sign the cert also.


    That being said I've used them on previous jobs and not once have they asked to see my card so it could have been bob the builder signing off on it for all they were concerned.


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    #17
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    M cebee wrote: »
    -reci won't issue a cert without PL
    -presumably you need a qualification to get PL

    -is none of this work restricted in any way to 'qualified' persons

    Perhaps RECI won't anymore without insurance but they did for me. ECSSA will certify for a fee. I rang them recently and insurance was not a requirement.


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    #18
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    2011 wrote: »

    Perhaps RECI won't anymore without insurance but they did for me. ECSSA will certify for a fee. I rang them recently and insurance was not a requirement.
    yes but as above
    -do they stipulate a qualified electrician who carried out the work should be present?


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    #19
    leeomurchu
    Site Banned Posts: 957 ✭✭✭leeomurchu


    M cebee wrote: »
    yes but as above
    -do they stipulate a qualified electrician who carried out the work should be present?

    They do.


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    #20
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    leeomurchu wrote: »

    They do.
    so thats that then!


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    #21
    leeomurchu
    Site Banned Posts: 957 ✭✭✭leeomurchu


    M cebee wrote: »
    so thats that then!

    haha true but that's in a perfect world as I was saying earlier it could've been anybody signing it.

    Also you have to carry out insul. res, faut loop tests etc and send them in with you application. I doubt a handy man would have a megger or Robin meters and they're pricey to rent but then again who's to say a handy man wouldn't just enter nominal values.


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    #22
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    leeomurchu wrote: »

    haha true but that's in a perfect world as I was saying earlier it could've been anybody signing it.

    Also you have to carry out insul. res, faut loop tests etc and send them in with you application. I doubt a handy man would have a megger or Robin meters and they're pricey to rent but then again who's to say a handy man wouldn't just enter nominal values.
    yes you have to fill out a sheet for inspector
    -that is beyond the capabilities of a handyman realistically


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    #23
    leeomurchu
    Site Banned Posts: 957 ✭✭✭leeomurchu


    M cebee wrote: »
    yes you have to fill out a sheet for inspector
    -that is beyond the capabilities of a handyman realistically

    Yeah but internet is full of all kinds of info ;)


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    #24
    frankmul
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭frankmul


    leeomurchu wrote: »

    haha true but that's in a perfect world as I was saying earlier it could've been anybody signing it.

    Also you have to carry out insul. res, faut loop tests etc and send them in with you application. I doubt a handy man would have a megger or Robin meters and they're pricey to rent but then again who's to say a handy man wouldn't just enter nominal values.

    don't they do some tests themselves and comparye to the test record sheet


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    #25
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    M cebee wrote: »
    yes but as above
    -do they stipulate a qualified electrician who carried out the work should be present?
    I take it all back, following a Google I think you are correct!

    I just had a look at the form from the ECSSA, here.

    I see that it states:
    Have your Electrician complete & sign the attached TEST RECORD SHEET.

    This suggests to me that despite my experience in the past the situation now is that a qualified electrician must carry out the work.


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    #26
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    frankmul wrote: »

    don't they do some tests themselves and comparye to the test record sheet
    they do afaik


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    #27
    leeomurchu
    Site Banned Posts: 957 ✭✭✭leeomurchu


    frankmul wrote: »
    don't they do some tests themselves and comparye to the test record sheet

    they do.


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    #28
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    frankmul wrote: »
    don't they do some tests themselves and comparye to the test record sheet

    They did with me.


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    #29
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    2011 wrote: »
    I take it all back, following a Google I think you are correct!

    I just had a look at the form from the ECSSA, here.

    I see that it states:


    This suggests to me that despite my experience in the past the situation now is that a qualified electrician must carry out the work.
    ya
    tbh i agree with your viewpoint

    -if hypothetically, a non-spark is able to do a job 100% and fill out paperwork

    i don't see a problem notwithstanding the issue of insurance

    realistically i can't envisage such a scenario


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    #30
    liveandnetural
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭liveandnetural


    navara man wrote: »
    would it be legal for a non electrician to wire up a new electric shower even if it done to same sandard of a qualified electrician ?

    why do you ask???have you fitted the shower yourself or has some fiited a shower for you

    the answer to your legal question is in here
    http://www.cer.ie/en/electricity-safety-controlled-works.aspx


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    #31
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    liveandnetural wrote: »

    why do you ask???have you fitted the shower yourself or has some fiited a shower for you

    the answer to your legal question is in here
    http://www.cer.ie/en/electricity-safety-controlled-works.aspx
    what does it say on it?


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