PDC vs BDO - Discuss

Kingp35

This thread is for discussing the merits and differences between both organisations. I do not want the BDO World Championships thread being used for this.

Personally I think that there is room in the world of darts for both organisations.

Max Power

Can't bring myself to watch the BDO. Everything is so amateurish compared to the PDC. The walk ons are cringeworthy to say the least. The callers are brutal. No atmosphere from the crowd. "LETS PLAY DARTS" feck off! Bob Anderson's analysis are painful to listen to.

Don't get me started on the actual darts.

Kingp35

Kingp35 wrote: »

Personally I think that there is room in the world of darts for both organisations.

So do I. I don't see the need for a unified organisation or 1 world championship. In many sports there is not even 1 world championship, in golf and tennis there are 4 majors and none is "better" than the other, in golf there are differing organisations in Europe, in the USA, and players play on one tour or the other. The game might benefit from one or two more Grand Slam type tournaments, it's my favourite tournament, where the players mix. But otherwise think if anything the split increases coverage, the game is shown across more channels, and the two organisations seem to have settled down side by side with the odd flare up when someone crosses to the PDC or Adams says the BDO is the only organisation etc. etc.

Far prefer the Lakeside to 4,000 people booing or chanting about tables and chairs though.

Devastator

repsol wrote: »

I enjoy the standard of the PDC but you are right,SKY ruins it.The BDC has a nice atmosphere.I like the interviews in the practice room/bar area.You have a player being interviewed and in the background Martin Adams or someone having a pint and a bag of crisps!:)

So you prefer the amateur look? WTF is goign on during this game....nobodys got a clue about the scores....ya can be 100% certain there would never be a delay in a major sly sports tournament like this over scores

Felexicon

Devastator wrote: »

So you prefer the amateur look? WTF is goign on during this game....nobodys got a clue about the scores....ya can be 100% certain there would never be a delay in a major sly sports tournament like this over scores

Yes, you're right the PDC is better because they've never had human error interupt a game :rolleyes:

T-K-O

Devastator wrote: »

So you prefer the amateur look? WTF is goign on during this game....nobodys got a clue about the scores....ya can be 100% certain there would never be a delay in a major sly sports tournament like this over scores

Premier League = Skys cash cow

Yeah premier league games were never delayed.:rolleyes:

These things happen

markie29

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Can't bring myself to watch the BDO. Everything is so amateurish compared to the PDC. The walk ons are cringeworthy to say the least. The callers are brutal. No atmosphere from the crowd. "LETS PLAY DARTS" feck off! Bob Anderson's analysis are painful to listen to.

Don't get me started on the actual darts.

watching it now and the scores on the scoreboard were wrong...5 minute delay before they fixed it...amateurish is an understatement.

KevIRL

There is definitely a place for both. The PDC has a higher standard overall in terms of averages, but very often the BDO games will be closer affairs and more enjoyable as a result. The BDO dont seem to do themselves many favours in terms of organisation and exposure though, really only get one week the public mind each year.

The crowd in the BDO is far better imo and obviously there to enjoy the darts first and foremost whereas the PDC crowd are more into just getting pi$$ed, chanting and getting their face on the telly

KevIRL

markie29 wrote: »

watching it now and the scores on the scoreboard were wrong...5 minute delay before they fixed it...amateurish is an understatement.

Technical stuff happens at events from time to time. Last year at the PDC championships for example the semi final turned into a farce with Wade and Lewis walking off the stage on a few occasions citing a draught.

Unfair to just single out the BDO and call them amateurs due to a technical issue imo

markie29

markie29 wrote: »

watching it now and the scores on the scoreboard were wrong...5 minute delay before they fixed it...amateurish is an understatement.

One doesn't want to be unkind, but not as bad as a player having a stroke on stage while the masses booed and chanted. About tables and chairs presumably.

ArmaniJeanss

If I was going to one day of Darts then PDC quarter final day would be my choice.
If I was going to one week of Darts then the week at Lakeside for the BDO would be my choice - its just seems a more enjoyable fun event to be part of.

Max Power

Deleted User wrote: »

One doesn't want to be unkind, but not as bad as a player having a stroke on stage while the masses booed and chanted. About tables and chairs presumably.

Yes because the crowd knew he was having a stroke. :rolleyes:

FionnMcCool87

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Yes because the crowd knew he was having a stroke. :rolleyes:

In other sports, when a player is suffering from a serious medical condition, usually someone steps in.

In darts, and unfortunately for the PDC in their tournament, there was possibly an assumption that he had a different condition, so they let him get on with it.

It was a bad bad night for darts. Much worse than a scoreboard glitch. Scoreboard problems are not as serious as health issues, you will surely agree that.

But hey, the tables took the mick out of the chairs, and vice versa.

T-K-O

I think its clear, in the last few years the PDC have taken almost all talent from the BDO.

I cant stand darts on sky, there is something thuggish about that setup

Devastator

I agree about the BDO looking like amateur competition(nothing to do with players) and that delay over the scores was a joke!

It is not comparable to semi between Wade/Lewis because that was over a breeze coming in.....today they couldnt get the scores right! :rolleyes: PDC have markers on stage, if there is a discrepancy over the score it takes 15-20 seconds to fix and the game continues. That must have taken 5 minutes to sort out today

Felexicon

The perfect world would have the PDC players playing in a BDO atmosphere. I'm sure most real darts fans will agree with that.
I think saying the BDO is better because a player had a stroke while playing in the PDC is horseshít tbf.

T-K-O

Felexicon wrote: »

The perfect world would have the PDC players playing in a BDO atmosphere. I'm sure most real darts fans will agree with that.
I think saying the BDO is better because a player had a stroke while playing in the PDC is horseshít tbf.

That was the case not so long ago but obviously the money from sky was too much to turn down

Felexicon

Devastator wrote: »

I agree about the BDO looking like amateur competition(nothing to do with players) and that delay over the scores was a joke!

It is not comparable to semi between Wade/Lewis because that was over a breeze coming in.....today they couldnt get the scores right! :rolleyes: PDC have markers on stage, if there is a discrepancy over the score it takes 15-20 seconds to fix and the game continues. That must have taken 5 minutes to sort out today

Really? You're going to base your judgement on one incident that happened about 20 minutes ago. Seems legit.
Hope there were no small kids about when your knee jerked.

Felexicon

Felexicon wrote: »

The perfect world would have the PDC players playing in a BDO atmosphere. I'm sure most real darts fans will agree with that.
I think saying the BDO is better because a player had a stroke while playing in the PDC is horseshít tbf.

Possibly because it wasn't said and you missed the point, or failed to understand it?

Someone was suggesting that a glitch in the scoreboard was like some really damning event. I pointed out that the sport has seen worse moments. If you disagree and think that a player having a stroke is less serious than some technical issue, fair enough.

Will I Amnt

The standard is obviously higher in the PDC but the top players in the BDO would hold their own against the top players in the PDC and it's been that way for a while.

The biggest difference is when you move further down the rankings in the BDO it's nowhere near the quality of player that's in the corresponding positions in the PDC.

The likes of Waites, O'Shea and Bunting would do really well in the PDC imo.

Felexicon

T-K-O wrote: »

That was the case not so long ago but obviously the money from sky was too much to turn down

It's not Sky who I'd lay the blame at as much as Barry Hearne. He tried to bring the football style crowd behaviour to snooker until the players told him to fúck off.
If he wanted to stop it he could just instruct referees to stop games until crowds were quiet

Max Power

Deleted User wrote: »

Possibly because it wasn't said and you missed the point, or failed to understand it?

Someone was suggesting that a glitch in the scoreboard was like some really damning event. I pointed out that the sport has seen worse moments. If you disagree and think that a player having a stroke is less serious than some technical issue, fair enough.

Did you watch that game with Hankey and MVG? If so, did you know he was having a stroke?

I'm no expert but I don't think the PDC refs and callers are Doctors.

cambo2008

cambo2008 wrote: »

The standard is obviously higher in the PDC but the top players in the BDO would hold their own against the top players in the PDC and it's been that way for a while.

The biggest difference is when you move further down the rankings in the BDO it's nowhere near the quality of player that's in the corresponding positions in the PDC.

The likes of Waites, O'Shea and Bunting would do really well in the PDC imo.

Think that's certainly true. Only a handful of BDO players would survive at the top of the PDC.

KevIRL

I enjoy watching both as said before but it must be said that the BDO really fail when it comes to promoting their games. Very little (if any) tv coverage during the year and when the World Championship comes along they cant even get every game shown live despite having a contract with 2 TV stations who have 7 channels between them. For them not to have arranged to show the opening game of their World Championship is an absolute joke. That would be a far more amatuerish thing to be concerned about than a faulty scoreboard imo

Devastator

Felexicon wrote: »

Really? You're going to base your judgement on one incident that happened about 20 minutes ago. Seems legit.
Hope there were no small kids about when your knee jerked.

yes your absolutely correct because I only started watching darts 20 mins ago :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

don't be a plum your whole life lad :rolleyes:

Jayob10

Surprise Surprise, the long time darts fans tell defend the BDO in the face of the blow in's basking in the drama of the PDC.

Couldn't give a toss about crowds or atmosphere or whatever, the quality of Darts in the PDC is simply better. Sure its glossy, a bit crass and easy to knock due to the casual fans jumping on the band wagon but the simple fact is its better quality and the winner is the true world champ.

Comparing the 2 world championships as similar to majors in golf is a bit of a joke too. Every major golfer competes in all the 4 majors, its not the case with the darts.

The best players want to test themselves in the PDC pretty much. Those who languish in the BDO with no ambition of switching over are comfy living in their bubble believing they are competing at the highest level.

Its a pure case of terrestrial tv v Satellite and it shows.

T-K-O

Felexicon wrote: »

It's not Sky who I'd lay the blame at as much as Barry Hearne. He tried to bring the football style crowd behaviour to snooker until the players told him to fúck off.
If he wanted to stop it he could just instruct referees to stop games until crowds were quiet

They could stop it but they wont. It suits everyone involved. PDC/SKY is like watching reality TV, it gets lapped up by the gen pop.

Same goes for F1 on sky and the premier league

FionnMcCool87

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Did you watch that game with Hankey and MVG? If so, did you know he was having a stroke?

I'm no expert but I don't think the PDC refs and callers are Doctors.

Yes. No.

Again, you miss the point. I'm not saying the crowd should have known, or I knew.

The point is that just about the worst sight ever in darts happened in a PDC tournament recently. I'm not blamingthe crowd. But let's not pretend a scoreboard fail is that big an issue or like some really awful sight. We've all seen worse, much worse.

KevIRL

Felexicon wrote: »

It's not Sky who I'd lay the blame at as much as Barry Hearne. He tried to bring the football style crowd behaviour to snooker until the players told him to fúck off.
If he wanted to stop it he could just instruct referees to stop games until crowds were quiet

Its a bit of a catch 22 for the PDC players though, the large crowds = bigger prize money. But its the abilty to get pi$$ed up, shout, boo, chant and generally act the eejit that appeals to people to attend and hence bring in the big crowds

KevIRL

Devastator wrote: »

I agree about the BDO looking like amateur competition(nothing to do with players) and that delay over the scores was a joke!

It is not comparable to semi between Wade/Lewis because that was over a breeze coming in.....today they couldnt get the scores right! :rolleyes: PDC have markers on stage, if there is a discrepancy over the score it takes 15-20 seconds to fix and the game continues. That must have taken 5 minutes to sort out today

They are both technical issues though, the draught was caused by the air ventilation system.

My point is stuff happens from time to time to cause delays in lots of sporting events. I wouldnt call the BDO guys amatuers purely based on a faulty scoreboard

Jayob10

Jayob10 wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about crowds or atmosphere or whatever, the quality of Darts in the PDC is simply better. Sure its glossy, a bit crass and easy to knock due to the casual fans jumping on the band wagon but the simple fact is its better quality and the winner is the true world champ.

But take football. A lot of Irish people will watch Liverpool, a mid table team in an inferior league, compared to La Liga. If quality was the only issue in sports, then everyone would watch Barcelona and ManU. Do you watch club football? Do you limit it to the best teams only?

Felexicon

Devastator wrote: »

yes your absolutely correct because I only started watching darts 20 mins ago :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

don't be a plum your whole life lad :rolleyes:

Devastator wrote: »

I agree about the BDO looking like amateur competition(nothing to do with players) and that delay over the scores was a joke!

It is not comparable to semi between Wade/Lewis because that was over a breeze coming in.....today they couldnt get the scores right! :rolleyes: PDC have markers on stage, if there is a discrepancy over the score it takes 15-20 seconds to fix and the game continues. That must have taken 5 minutes to sort out today

I'll quote your original post again then. You only mentioned an incident that happened 30 minutes ago. You do realise I don't know you and can only go by your posts content

Jayob10

Deleted User wrote: »

But take football. A lot of Irish people will watch Liverpool, a mid table team in an inferior league, compared to La Liga. If quality was the only issue in sports, then everyone would watch Barcelona and ManU. Do you watch club football? Do you limit it to the best teams only?

yeah thats all well and good, but you don't see San Marino, Liechenstein, Azerbaijan and Luxembourg pretending they are competing in the World Cup.

I have no problem with the BDO, I watch it every year aswell as the PDC.

A better football analogy would be the PDC is the Champions League, the BDO being the Europa league. You don't call the winners of the Europa league the best in Europe.

Pro Boxing is a farce of a sport (and im a huge fan) for its many sanctioning bodies and versions of world champions. Darts is not far off that.

Jayob10

Jayob10 wrote: »

yeah thats all well and good, but you don't see San Marino, Liechenstein, Azerbaijan and Luxembourg pretending they are competing in the World Cup.

I have no problem with the BDO, I watch it every year aswell as the PDC.

A better football analogy would be the PDC is the Champions League, the BDO being the Europa league. You don't call the winners of the Europa league the best in Europe.

Pro Boxing is a farce of a sport (and im a huge fan) for its many sanctioning bodies and versions of world champions. Darts is not far off that.

Ah steady on, Scott Waites is hardly in the San Marino, or even Europa League, standard.

You said in darts the only issue is quality. Might I ask if you follow football and if so what club? Just curious if you are as rigorous about applying the "quality is the only thing" rule across the board.

ArmaniJeanss

Felexicon wrote: »

It's not Sky who I'd lay the blame at as much as Barry Hearne. He tried to bring the football style crowd behaviour to snooker until the players told him to fúck off.
If he wanted to stop it he could just instruct referees to stop games until crowds were quiet

Meh, the PDC players could stop it instantly if they wanted.
Some regular boooo victim (Nicholson, Lewis, King or whoever) could refuse to throw until the crowd shut up, and his opponent and other senior players could support them on this. Then the authorities would have to sort it.

The players don't do this however, as they realise that one of the biggest reason there are 7/8 tourneys each year with £100K for the winner (and very decent prize money down the field) is that 7000/8000 are paying £30 a session purely on the understanding that they can get drunk and be abusive.

Ultimately the PDC players appear to consider it a price well worth paying.

Jayob10

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah steady on, Scott Waites is hardly in the San Marino, or even Europa League, standard.

You said in darts the only issue is quality. Might I ask if you follow football and if so what club? Just curious if you are as rigorous about applying the "quality is the only thing" rule across the board.

i'm not saying quality is the only thing.

But tell me, how can the BDO champ claim to be world champion?

The thread title is PDC v BDO- My claim was that the PDC is better quality. Shock horror.

Devastator

KevIRL wrote: »

I wouldnt call the BDO guys amatuers purely based on a faulty scoreboard

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post again because I didn't say anything of the sort infact I made a point of sayign it was NOTHING to do with the players

T-K-O

Jayob10 wrote: »

yeah thats all well and good, but you don't see San Marino, Liechenstein, Azerbaijan and Luxembourg pretending they are competing in the World Cup.

I have no problem with the BDO, I watch it every year aswell as the PDC.

A better football analogy would be the PDC is the Champions League, the BDO being the Europa league. You don't call the winners of the Europa league the best in Europe.

Pro Boxing is a farce of a sport (and im a huge fan) for its many sanctioning bodies and versions of world champions. Darts is not far off that.

Wrong, both cups are the same organisation. Level 1 and 2 if you will.

A better football analogy would be the Premier league v the bundesliga. Bayern have a great history but sky and their money allows lesser EPL teams to compete. Eventually all players flock to their new paymasters.

Glad you brought up boxing and pretending. PDC world titles is like the IBO world boxing title with bags loads of cash

Jayob10

T-K-O wrote: »

Wrong, both cups are the same organisation. Level 1 and 2 if you will.

A better football analogy would be the Premier league v the bundesliga. Bayern have a great history but sky and their money allows lesser EPL teams to compete. Eventually all players flock to their new paymasters.

Glad you brought up boxing and pretending. PDC world titles is like the IBO world boxing title with bags loads of cash

no chance.

The best of the bundesliga beat the best in the EPL. Thats not the case in the Darts.

As for the PDC being like the IBO world title??? Any boxer worth his salt (Barring Wlad Klitschko) knows this title isn't worth a feck.

The best fighters know belts don't matter. They just want to beat the best. And barring a couple of names, the best all compete in the PDC.

The Champions League/Europa analogy is a good one in terms of quality. There are a number of teams in the Europa who could hang with the best the champions league has to offer. Likewise, there are some minnows in the champions league who would be quickly dumped out of the Europa.

But at the business end of the Champions league, the cream rises to the top and is there for all to see.

T-K-O

Jayob10 wrote: »

no chance.

The best of the bundesliga beat the best in the EPL. Thats not the case in the Darts.

As for the PDC being like the IBO world title??? Any boxer worth his salt (Barring Wlad Klitschko) knows this title isn't worth a feck.

The best fighters know belts don't matter. They just want to beat the best. And barring a couple of names, the best all compete in the PDC.

The Champions League/Europa analogy is a good one in terms of quality. There are a number of teams in the Europa who could hang with the best the champions league has to offer. Likewise, there are some minnows in the champions league who would be quickly dumped out of the Europa.

But at the business end of the Champions league, the cream rises to the top and is there for all to see.

Belts do not matter in boxing ONCE a guy has reached the top. To reach the top you must win a belt. Once you are an established champion you can then forget the belts and pick and choose you opponents. That is how the business works.


WE agree on the IBO, now, if starting tomorrow the IBO offered their champions 10 million each. All the fighers would flock to that organisation but we as fans would know the history is with WBO/WBC.... wouldn't we??

Felexicon

T-K-O wrote: »

Belts do not matter in boxing ONCE a guy has reached the top. To reach the top you must win a belt. Once you are an established champion you can then forget the belts and pick and choose you opponents. That is how the business works.


WE agree on the IBO, now, if starting tomorrow the IBO offered their champions 10 million each. All the fighers would flock to that organisation but we as fans would know the history is with WBO/WBC.... wouldn't we??

I thought this was the darts thread?

T-K-O

Felexicon wrote: »

I thought this was the darts thread?

It is yeah

Jayob10

T-K-O wrote: »

Belts do not matter in boxing ONCE a guy has reached the top. To reach the top you must win a belt. Once you are an established champion you can then forget the belts and pick and choose you opponents. That is how the business works.


WE agree on the IBO, now, if starting tomorrow the IBO offered their champions 10 million each. All the fighers would flock to that organisation but we as fans would know the history is with WBO/WBC.... wouldn't we??

Not on the WBO part

Taylor is the best darts player on the planet. How can you operate in another organisation and potentially call yourself World Champ without ever crossing swords with him?

Jayob10

Jayob10 wrote: »

But tell me, how can the BDO champ claim to be world champion?

Oh I dunno, because he wins the BDO World Championship and gets his name engraved beside Bristow, Lowe, Wilson, Taylor and Van Barneveld?

Jayob10

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I dunno, because he wins the BDO World Championship and gets his name engraved beside Bristow, Lowe, Wilson, Taylor and Van Barneveld?

you can have your name on the trophy sure, but until you beat the best you cannot be recognised as being champion.

T-K-O

Jayob10 wrote: »

Not on the WBO part

Taylor is the best darts player on the planet. How can you operate in another organisation and potentially call yourself World Champ without ever crossing swords with him?

Taylor is a very UN-likeable but very talented player. If we are to follow your logic at least half of his world titles do not count because the competition was so so poor.

Barney went over took the titles and basically retired :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Jayob10

Jayob10 wrote: »

Not on the WBO part

Taylor is the best darts player on the planet. How can you operate in another organisation and potentially call yourself World Champ without ever crossing swords with him?

When a BDO player wins the Grand Slam, does that make the BDO worlds more legitimate that year?

When Taylor does not win the PDC title and a player who doesn't meet him in the tournament wins, is that player the PDC world champion? Is it less legitimate?

I wouldn't define any sport by reference to one person.

Jayob10

Jayob10 wrote: »

you can have your name on the trophy sure, but until you beat the best you cannot be recognised as being champion.

When Waites was the best around in 2010, is there a blank space on the PDC Worlds Trophy?

Jayob10

Deleted User wrote: »

When Waites was the best around in 2010, is there a blank space on the PDC Worlds Trophy?

If Waites beats everyone then he should be called world champ yes.

My main point is that id like to see a single organisation and one world champ.

But also that theres alot more strength in depth in the PDC.

Kingp35

Deleted User wrote: »

When Waites was the best around in 2010, is there a blank space on the PDC Worlds Trophy?

Waites lost in the Quarter Finals of the Worlds in 2010. Hardly the best player around, in fact not even close.

T-K-O

Jayob10 wrote: »

If Waites beats everyone then he should be called world champ yes.

My main point is that id like to see a single organisation and one world champ.

But also that theres alot more strength in depth in the PDC.

But the IBO will never be the WBC no matter what