information on gun smithing

egan04921

hi lads, im sixteen and currently in 4th year. im just looking to find out what i need to become a gun smith .ie leaving cert, college ect. and if ther are many gun smiths in ireland. i have two guns already, plenty of work experience but non in shooting or guns. it would be a big help if you could give me any information you have, thanks

rowa

There are no requirements in ireland to becoming a gunsmith for the simple reason there are no gunsmithing courses in ireland. There are a few older gunsmiths but they are all near retirement age and they all trained in the english guntrade before it died. There are some gunsmiths who build f-class rifles etc but they came into it from engineering trades, i'd say they have a job making it pay the way the economy is and they seem to be one man bands.

deeksofdoom

I'ld say your best bet is to go to the UK and do a trade there.

gctest50

Bit on Discovery a while back :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjPAAXP9yrY

Cavan duck buster

I am also interested if gun smithing courses are near by. I'm planning on going to sparshault college in England to do Game and wildlife management course

http://www.sparsholt.ac.uk/5442

egan04921

do you know what you need over hear to get into sparshault college eg. how many points in leaving cert.

Cavan duck buster

egan04921 wrote: »

do you know what you need over hear to get into sparshault college eg. how many points in leaving cert.

No, not yet. I'm discussing it with my careers guidance councillor, Hope fully i will get the information back 2maro

But i think you need work exp. with a game keeper for a certain course. But i think so don't take that serious

Grizzly 45

You could also try further afield.Like Austria or Germany,where gunsmithing is a guild trade of five years and has its set courses and exams and you will come out with a genuine recognised qualification that would get you in anywhere in the world.
Downside, I hope you are studying a foreign langauge,and getting an apprenticeship with these guilds is like having a private audience with the pope,where the pope makes the tae himself.:eek:
Likewise the UK,trying to get into the bespoke gunsmiths is almost a fmaily tradition.

Game keeping,nice idea but unless you are willing to move to Scotland and work for a pretty low wage on Lord MacMucks estate and live in a caravan or other such standard of abode,for very little money well then..:P
Plus they will proably have plenty of local lads and lasses these days who have more connections to get the job than you will.:(
like most things,even the great estates of the UK are cutting back on staff,so a dedicated gamekeepering staff is not really an option,unless you are some Billionare,and then you would have to have somthing that will outshine all and sundry and local..
Your other choice would be get a degree in zoolology or somthing related,and pass your CV around to avery African embassy that has big game still and see if they want you to look after their remainder of their big game.They wont pay much by European standards,but you will have an intresting job alright.:)
Sorry to rain on the parade,but it isnt a very viable or financially rewarding career anymore,its just the way the world is going.:(

egan04921

is america an option now days. i know up till now guns where a big thing over ther. and aslo would it be hard to get a job as a gunsmith when ur from another country.

juice1304

All you need is a bucket full of cash. You need to be a firearms dealer and to do that you need a building/bunker up to scratch, it's 2k a year for the licence.
To get a job in america you need to prove that an american can't do the work and you need the company to sponsor you. other than that the only way to get a visa is to marry an American unless you are filthy rich or very intelligent with a qualification for a job on their list of specialist jobs that are in high demand.

rowa

The place to go in america is the Trinidad state junior college , its america's oldest gunsmithing school, i know people on other forums who have done summer school courses there and it has a good reputation.

http://www.trinidadstate.edu/gunsmithing

Alternatively you can go to russia, baikal have a gunsmithing school believe it or not.

http://imzcorp.com/en/info/gun_school.html

You are looking at putting in an extraordinary amount of effort and when finished you won't be earning a lot of money.

egan04921

the Trinidad state junior college looks to be the best but how much do there 2 week summer coures cost, if at all possible does anyone know where i could get work experience as a gunsmith in ireland, and the work load is no issue as i feel gun smithing is some thing id love to do the rest of my life there for it will be worth it

rowa

It says $29,000 to $33,000 in the pdf, you could do an honours degree in ireland for less. Why not try to get an apprenticeship in the army ?

http://www.trinidadstate.edu/images/stories/pdf/academics/gunsmithing/gunsmithing_web.pdf

Grizzly 45

Other option,albeit a rather extreme one .....
To get into the US is sign up with Uncle Sam for five years of your life in one of his five branches of the military and try and wrangle a course/position as armourer.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Other option,albeit a rather extreme one .....
To get into the US is sign up with Uncle Sam for five years of your life in one of his five branches of the military and try and wrangle a course/position as armourer.

That's all well and good, but an armourer is akin to a car mechanic - he is qualified to fix/repair and maintain, but not to build from scratch like a gunsmith does.

Unless, of course, my definition of a gunsmith is different to yours.

My old pal Manfred is a gunsmith - he builds single-shot [Kiplauf] and double rifles from lumps of steel and wood. To me, THAT is what a gunsmith does.

Best for 2013!

tac

egan04921

iv looked into the irish army and its ment to be a hard place to get into and if i could get into the us army could i be sent out to war.

tac foley

1. You'll need to brush up on the communications skills, as you might find that the Irish Army is not too keen to have you as a member, especially these days with the cut-back on recruting that seems to be going on and the entry competition so fierce.

2. Your amorer MOS will NOT stop you from being sent to where you can get killed or maimed - that's what soldiers do.

I respectfully offer the opinion that a reality check is needed here, Sir.

tac

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

That's all well and good, but an armourer is akin to a car mechanic - he is qualified to fix/repair and maintain, but not to build from scratch like a gunsmith does.

Unless, of course, my definition of a gunsmith is different to yours.

My old pal Manfred is a gunsmith - he builds single-shot [Kiplauf] and double rifles from lumps of steel and wood. To me, THAT is what a gunsmith does.

Best for 2013!

tac

I was talking to a lad at an awards ceremony in bolton street a few years back and i asked him where he worked and what he did etc , he told me he was in the irish army and was an armourer or artificer and worked on everything from heavy artillery to the steyr augs.
Most firearms are now made in large, extremely well equipped , computerized factories with the various parts made on cnc machinery to tolerances that the gunmakers of old could only dream of. So if something breaks or goes wrong then as tac says , it is a simple matter to remove the defective part and replace it with a new part from the factory.
The exceptions i suppose are the relatively small , high end makers like H&H , purdey or westley richards, the various gunsmiths in ferlach and the people who build competition target rifles. I don't see any of them training an apprentice just for them to go home at the end of their training.

Cass

From my experience with gunsmiths, and knowing a couple of them i would wonder at anyone that would want to get into it - right now.

The two most well known ones have been up and running for 10+ years and are not exactly minted. Others that are only getting into it probably could not have picked a worse time due to the economical climate, and less people with less disposable income. There is an attitude of gunsmiths make loads of money, but i think that to be assumption, and an incorrect one at that.

The firearms laws in this country make quick turnaround of guns a hassle. Meaning until the person gets their license the job is not paid for, and you live from job to job. So for one month you get money in from previous jobs, then a "famine" for a few months. Only the "bread and butter" jobs such as threading, repairs, etc. keep the lights on during the week. Some even had/have part time jobs when not building a gun.

I remember a gun dealer once telling me that if he had the money to start his business, and could go back in time to his younger self that he would give himself the money and tell himself to drink it instead.



All that aside it's a good profession, and interests myself, and many others i'd say, but as a profession for life, and to get into now. I would advise against it. Go to college, work in an engineering course, build your knowledge, but have a fallback option if gunsmithing does not pan out.


Just my 2 cents.

Grizzly 45

rowa wrote: »

I .
The exceptions i suppose are the relatively small , high end makers like H&H , purdey or westley richards, the various gunsmiths in ferlach and the people who build competition target rifles. I don't see any of them training an apprentice just for them to go home at the end of their training.

.
Simple fact is they dont have to worry about the apprentice becoming the competition is the pay is too good and most apprentices stay with the company that trained them up.Plus it is not everyone who becomes a apprentice there either.Their washout rate is worse than the SAS selection rate.98% of prospective apprentices dont make it .

iv looked into the irish army and its ment to be a hard place to get into and if i could get into the us army could i be sent out to war.

Gosh ! You think!!:eek::eek: Thats part of the deal that they might expect somthing in return for all that training,college education ,uniform free bed and board,and letting you play around with very expensive equipment???

As they say,Its not a job its an adventure!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Rule nr one in life...There aint no free lunches,..

Cass

I was speaking to Fergal White today, and mentioned this thread to him. He said if the OP would like to get a look at what is involved, that he is more than welcome to contact Fergal, arrange a day that suits, and drop down to him to have a look at what he does. He can get an idea about background, training, services, work involved, etc.

@egan04921. You can contact him via the info on his website - www.irelandcustomrifle.com

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.
Simple fact is they dont have to worry about the apprentice becoming the competition is the pay is too good and most apprentices stay with the company that trained them up.Plus it is not everyone who becomes a apprentice there either.Their washout rate is worse than the SAS selection rate.98% of prospective apprentices dont make it .

No sorry, the point i was trying to make Griz was a gunmaker spends 4 years training up an apprentice and at the end instead of continuing to work for the company they piss off home. You are correct about the washout rate too. I know a gunsmith in the uk who works making locks for high end shotguns for other companies, they get some young lad who wants to be a gunsmith and when he's stood at a bench filing a lump of metal for 40 hours a week the novelty wears off very quick and they leg it to hang around with their mates.
I'd suggest the op researches the rate of pay you could expect to earn as a gunsmith, it could be a reality check.

CollardGreens

Hi,
If you are considering the USA, the state of North Carolina has quite a lot of these schools. The mountains of North Carolina are beautiful if you can find one there. Last I looked you probably can find several technical colleges that will teach you in that state.

egan04921

Cass wrote: »

I was speaking to Fergal White today, and mentioned this thread to him. He said if the OP would like to get a look at what is involved, that he is more than welcome to contact Fergal, arrange a day that suits, and drop down to him to have a look at what he does. He can get an idea about background, training, services, work involved, etc.

@egan04921. You can contact him via the info on his website - www.irelandcustomrifle.com

cass thanks very much for the help in spreading the word about the thread. this would mean alot to me and will give me a better idea of what i want to do as a job, i cant thank you anuf

meathstevie

If you master French have a look at Liege, home of the largest small arms company in the world that makes sporting guns as well as all sorts of military firearms and at that from pure hand crafted works of art to lash them out by the thousand mass produced pieces of kit. There's a technical school in the city that's practically a conveyor belt into FN after graduation.

Having said that if you ever go that way I don't think you should expect to be involved in the making of handcrafted B25's a week after walking in.

Grizzly 45

OTOH,if you cant get into gunsmithing,and have an artistic bent an ancillary trade that is in very high demand in the gun world are engravers.
Proably an even more exacting branch,as you are doing extremly fine workmanship on a minature scale without the chance of correcting a mistake either.The engraving on bespoke guns is what I belive adds 80% of the price to the gun.:)

lb1981

If you want to drive a nice car ,have a nice house and live a comfortable life then i would knock the gunsmith idea on the head.
Look fair play to you for wanting to do it and its good to see but you have to think of what type of lifestyle you want to lead.
Most gun smiths and custom rifle builders in this country have a base trade ie.Toolmaker, Fitter/Turner or Carpenter(stock makers) they have then moved into the gun world after serving their time, the problem now in this country is if you are able to get a apprenticeship in one of the trades i mentioned and you finish serving your time where are you going to get a job.Engineering in Ireland is on its knees at the moment and it is very hard to get a good job if any at the moment.
I am a Maintenance fitter/turner by trade and i am very very lucky to have one of the best and highest paid jobs in the country at the moment.
I have also had to work in the bad ones were you had barely enough money to pay the bills at the end of the week so i appreciate the opportunity i have now.
If you are going to go down the road of a trade my advice to you would be to do college at night time while you are young and doing your apprenticeship so when you finish your time you will also have a degree so you will be ahead of a lot of other applicants when job hunting.
I really wish someone gave me that advice when i was starting out it would have save my a lot of grief in the long run,the only reason why i have a top job now is hard work and constantly up skilling and embracing new technology.
My advice would be if you really want to go into gun smithing is do a trade and a engineering coarse at night get a good job and get some money behind you and do it as a part time job on the side and treat it like a hobby because you will not be a wealthy man otherwise.
Any decent Fitter/ turner or toolmaker can make basic components for guns or do small jobs on them its just taking that extra step on top of a good base trade.
Just to give you an idea here is a few thread caps i knocked up on the lathe on my lunch hour the other night.These would be quite simple for you to make .

Dalken

I feel for you young man, sounds like you have a real passion for the outdoors, hunting and wildlife and like for everyone else oppurtunity is at present in very short supply. It is very difficult to find a decent gunsmith in Ireland to do anything I can only imagine that the money is very low in the gun trade generally here unless you re selling clays and shells by the thousands.
I have worked and lived in the UK and all I can say is that a lot of the shooting industry there is about who you know, game shooting is a much more formal and exclusive past time in Britain, unless your lucky enough to live in it's elusive countryside.

What I would say is that from an Irish hunters point of view is that it's great to see a young Irish fella with a passion for Gun Smithing and Wildlife. You're very young and there are lots of ways around things, if I were you I'd look at some wildlife courses, here or abroad, then get yourself over to Canada, Australia or New Zealand where hunting and wildlife is properly managed and appreciated, when you are ready PLEASE bring all that experience back to Ireland and enrich the place for the rest of us. Best of luck to you regardless of what you do.

egan04921

just want to say thanks to every one who have given me their opinion and all of their knowlege on the subject. im realy grateful for everything people have thought me about gunsmithig and what it takes to become one through ther experiences in life.
i intend on going to go to college and then take up the trade of tool maker or Fitter/Turner as these will give me a good base to work off of.

thanks very much
Egan04921

lb1981

egan04921 wrote: »

just want to say thanks to every one who have given me their opinion and all of their knowledge on the subject. I'm relay grateful for everything people have thought me about gunsmith and what it takes to become one through their experiences in life.
i intend on going to go to college and then take up the trade of tool maker or Fitter/Turner as these will give me a good base to work off of.

thanks very much
Egan04921

You will be too old to start an apprenticeship after college you would have to do it before or at night while serving your time.
You would earn more packing shelves in Dunne's stores part time than you will during the first 2 years of your apprenticeship so it is best off doing it young and loan free.
If you went to college and done an engineering degree you could not just go and work as a tool maker or a fitter/turner you would still need to complete a standards based apprenticeship which consists of working for a company and going on 6 and 3 month block release to fas and college to complete a series of tests both workshop and theory and unlike college 40% wont get you a pass its 70% per test to pass.
If you want to work with your hands then college on its own is the wrong way to go because you will only get a couple of hrs a week in the workshop and at the end of it you will not be that competent , trust me I worked in one.