PS4 Megathread

Shane.C

I'm glad for the Xbox players, as they can now rejoice in the knowledge of being listened to by pompous money grabbing s***heads.
Disappointed however, in Microsoft.

It was always about increasing profit via always online, utilising a massive advertising campaign & no used games bull****, as well as the €100euro price difference and Kinect requirement.

Backtracking now just doesn't change anything for me, if the internet had not gone into such array then they would not have cared about their so called cherished console gamer, I'm still getting a PS4 on launch!

mozattack

Why can't there be 45 FPS, seems to be just 30 or 60?

Richard Dower

mozattack wrote: »

Why can't there be 45 FPS, seems to be just 30 or 60?

Good question!?....any tech-heads explain this?

SouthTippBass

Richard Dower wrote: »

Good question!?....any tech-heads explain this?

I'm not a techie, but eh, I think it fluctuates. We just use 30 and 60 as markers as anything about 60 our eyesight cannot differentiate. And then 30 is the minimum required for a smooth game. Open for correction.

Xenji

Not sure why people would still go for the xbox, if the system is due for release in the next few months I am sure they could easily reimplement these features with a update as they are still probably apart of the xboxs architecture

pleasant Co.

Xenji wrote: »

Not sure why people would still go for the xbox, if the system is due for release in the next few months I am sure they could easily reimplement these features with a update as they are still probably apart of the xboxs architecture

Well I can only state what i'll be doing, noting that I'm an x360 owner not Ps3, I won't be getting either on day one, but I will most definitely be buying the Ps4 at some point shortly after its release, I have zero interest in the X1 and any potential it had has been ruined by MS' contempt for their own customers and complete arrogance - sure they've backed down after overwhelming condemnation so it's great to know that $$$ talks, i'm hardly going to jump back on board after such a cluster**** though, maybe they'll sweeten the deal, but they didn't seem to care about my money before they backtracked so they'll be rewarded in kind.

aindriu80

most sources are going for a November 13th release.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/415625/ps4-release-date-november-13-2013-european-retailers/

Still quite a while though

Captain Chaos

aindriu80 wrote: »

most sources are going for a November 13th release.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/415625/ps4-release-date-november-13-2013-european-retailers/

Still quite a while though

It will be either the 13th or 21st of November. I was sure in my mind of the 21st after E3. If they can make the 13th launch date that will be some pressure on the X1.

aindriu80

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It will be either the 13th or 21st of November. I was sure in my mind of the 21st after E3. If they can make the 13th launch date that will be some pressure on the X1.

They do have posters for 13th. At least we won't have to wait like we did for the PS3.

stevenmu

mozattack wrote: »

Why can't there be 45 FPS, seems to be just 30 or 60?

Like SouthTippBass says, it can fluctuate, and typically with PC games it does fluctuate quite a lot, but I believe console developers tend to try and lock the frame rate to one or the other. My understanding of this may not be 100% accurate, but I'll try and explain it anyway and hopefully someone can correct me if needs be.

First let me quickly explain the difference between FPS and Hz.

FPS (frames per second) generally refers to how many frames the graphics card is drawing each second. For a very simple scene, say a single ball moving around this could be several hundred times a second, 300fps is not in any way unreasonable, but for more complex scene with lots of polygons, textures, effects etc it will obviously take longer to draw each frame so you get a much lower FPS.

Hz generally refers to the refresh rate, this is how often the screen refreshes it's image. It's also how often the GPU sends an image to the screen. These two things always stay sychonrised at the same rate no matter what, or very bad things happen.

Most modern screens support refresh rates of both 30hz and 60hz, and the reason for this goes back to the early days of old CRT televisions. In the US, alternating current works at a frequency of 60Hz. Due to limitations of technology at the time, CRT TVs (which use pulses of very high voltage) were built to work at the same frequency. The NTSC TV signal was defined, and it works by sending 30 frames a second, with each frame being split into 2 interleaved fields, which basically means you are getting 60 bits of picture sent each second, and 60 bits of picture drawn on the TV each second, therefore 60hz. (europe has AC current at 50hz, hence we got the PAL standard with 25fps/50hz)

As technology progressed it became possible to make CRTs that weren't tied to the AC current (for e.g. I had a monitor 15 years ago that happily did 120hz), but the standards were already there and worked fine. As things switched over to LCD/plasma screens, they were in no way tied to the AC frequency, but their technologies were quite limited in terms of how quick they could redraw the screens, they could handle 60Hz but not a lot higher. And again the standards were already in place and worked ok, so again they kind of stuck. The one slight difference is that before when TVs were linked to AC frequency, very few European TVs supported 60Hz and very few american TVs supported 50Hz. With LCD/Plasma, most TVs happily support both.

So, now we have a situation where most TVs work at 60Hz, but as I mentioned, the GPU can be generating frames at different rates depending on how complicated the scene actually is. What basically happens, in short, is that the GPU runs over all the calculations, calculating where all the different polygons are, what the textures are, what the lighting is doing etc, and draws the frame, and then puts that frame into a frame buffer. Another chip reads the framebuffer and sends that picture to the TV, it has to do this at in sync with the TVs refresh rate for obvious reasons, so if the TV is refreshing at 60Hz, this chip is sending the framebuffer contents at 60Hz too.

Now if the GPU is calculating frames at 60fps, then there's a new frame in the buffer each time and everything works nice and smooth. If the GPU is generating 30fps, that's easy to deal with, each frame just gets sent twice, no real problem there. If the GPU is generating 45fps things get a bit trickier, some frames get sent twice, some frames only get sent once, and you start to get noticeable jumpiness. Even worse than that, things can get out of sync, and it's possible that the GPU will be half way through drawing a frame while the framebuffer is being sent to the TV and you start to get screen tearing. There are techniques such as Vsync which force things to wait until the frame has been drawn, but this has it's own problems by introducing delays.

Because console developers are working with known hardware, and they often write code more diractly for that hardware, they often try to just bypass any of these issues by designing the game to run at a solid 30fps or 60fps. They don't always totally succeed, but it's usually not too noticeable where they don't.





Tl;dr Blame Tesla

aindriu80

I think game developers have misunderstood 60fps. No matter what the technical limitations are they usually don't compensate in another way in the game. They should have no excuses now come holiday season.

brianregan09

Lads what launch titles are we getting , I seem to have missed it

KeithM89

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It will be either the 13th or 21st of November. I was sure in my mind of the 21st after E3. If they can make the 13th launch date that will be some pressure on the X1.

13th is a wed, 21st is a thursday. Isnt friday usually the norm for gaming releases?? What day did the PS3 come out?

aindriu80

brianregan09 wrote: »

Lads what launch titles are we getting , I seem to have missed it

errr assassins creed, battlefield 4, Call of Duty Ghost.. the usual suspects:P

here is a list of PS4 launch titles though,

http://www.geek.com/games/the-ps4-launch-titles-we-know-about-so-far-1558959/

NotorietyH

Think it was a Wednesday. I remember I took the following day off work. Vita was a Wednesday anyway.

KeithM89

NotorietyH wrote: »

Think it was a Wednesday. I remember I took the following day off work. Vita was a Wednesday anyway.

Wikipedia says 23rd of March 2007 which is a friday but i thought it was midweek too. Hope its a friday though, full weekend of sitting in exactly the same spot for 72 hours :pac:

NotorietyH

Scylla wrote: »

Wikipedia says 23rd of March 2007 which is a friday but i thought it was midweek too. Hope its a friday though, full weekend of sitting in exactly the same spot for 72 hours :pac:

Well then I wasted a days holiday from work taking a Saturday off! :P

Oh wait maybe it was. I took the Friday off work. I got it at the midnight launch, that's why I had it the night before.

CastorTroy

Maybe I missed it, as I didn't read the whole thread, but now the XBox One has done the 180 about a lot of the features Sony pretty much buried them with, I have to ask What are the positives and negatives for the PS4?
All I've heard so far is the advantages like It allows used games and other digs at the X1 but seems apart from things like Cheaper and better hardware I don't think I've heard any other positives and negatives.

A Brad Maddox Guy

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1026217_490490191027727_807621600_o.png

Basically this I think.

tok9

CastorTroy wrote: »

Maybe I missed it, as I didn't read the whole thread, but now the XBox One has done the 180 about a lot of the features Sony pretty much buried them with, I have to ask What are the positives and negatives for the PS4?
All I've heard so far is the advantages like It allows used games and other digs at the X1 but seems apart from things like Cheaper and better hardware I don't think I've heard any other positives and negatives.

Cheaper and better hardware are two pretty good positives! :P

sin0city

Along with the reasons listed above I'd add that:

-You don't need batteries for your controller.
-You don't have to have the PS Eye attached to turn it on.
-The aim is to have all Playstation games playable on the PS4 via Gaikai - no backwards compatibility for X1.
-Sony will likely have better exclusives by the end of the generation.
-Independent developer support.
-Playstation Plus / World - although it remains to be seen how this will be implemented.
-The superior hardware allows for greater longevity than the X1 too.

CastorTroy

Ah, but what are the negatives that got buried under the XBox's? Or is the PS4 just perfect?

hightower1

tok9 wrote: »

Cheaper and better hardware are two pretty good positives! :P

And actually supporting a company that has you... the gamers, interests at the core of its ethos.

Look at it this way, MS first reveal - "Xbone is all about TV!" .... everyone hates it....total 180 on this POV come E3

MS reveal at E3..."NOW we are all about games, here is some crazy DRM!".... everyone hates it......now another 180

MS have shown their initial and geniune ethos is not one that keeps the gamer at its core. Sure, they will bend and backtrack for now but do you want to invest in a product made by a company whos first reactions are so far off the mark its a bad joke? How long before they DONT backtrack on their terrible business choices that directly affect you. Something tells me that time will come just about a min after launch.

(FYI, I own an xbox and never owned a ps3)

Otacon

To add to the above, PS+ will give you free games and discounts each month, is not required for online for F2P games or media apps. Self-publishing should lead to more games coming to the platform. Remote play on the Vita will also be possible on all PS4 games that do not use the PS Eye. Automatic updates are built into the system rather than a PS+ feature. You will be able to buy and download games, movies and such, all from your phone when you are away from your house.

There are more that I am blanking on...

Otacon

CastorTroy wrote: »

Ah, but what are the negatives that got buried under the XBox's? Or is the PS4 just perfect?

You need PS+ for playing online games.
No backwards compatibility currently.
A 500GB HDD will NOT be enough once PS+ access is a few months old!

stevenmu

hightower1 wrote: »

Look at it this way, MS first reveal - "Xbone is all about TV!" .... everyone hates it....total 180 on this POV come E3

MS reveal at E3..."NOW we are all about games, here is some crazy DRM!".... everyone hates it......now another 180

Microsoft said all along that the first event was about demoing the platform and that the games would be shown off at E3. It was never all about TV and there wasn't a total 180 on that. They just showed some of the stuff first, and then the rest of the stuff later.

padair

CastorTroy wrote: »

Maybe I missed it, as I didn't read the whole thread, but now the XBox One has done the 180 about a lot of the features Sony pretty much buried them with, I have to ask What are the positives and negatives for the PS4?
All I've heard so far is the advantages like It allows used games and other digs at the X1 but seems apart from things like Cheaper and better hardware I don't think I've heard any other positives and negatives.

PlayStation does have negatives. Who doesn’t?. Before I get flamed for writing negatives I am a PS fan and I am getting the PS4.

There is more down time with PlayStation Network that with Xbox live.
There are a lot more firmware updates on PlayStation that on the Xbox.
PlayStations store interface is fairly nasty but it is getting better.

The above points relate to my experience with the PS3 and 360. Next time around things might be completely different. XBOne need a day one patch.

pleasant Co.

sin0city wrote: »

Along with the reasons listed above I'd add that:

-You don't need batteries for your controller. meh
-You don't have to have the PS Eye attached to turn it on. niiice
-The aim is to have all Playstation games playable on the PS4 via Gaikai - no backwards compatibility for X1. niiice
-Sony will likely have better exclusives by the end of the generation. most definitely before the end of the generation, ms are less focused on games and more on mass market - mass market games are multiplatform by definition so they'll probably rely more on DLC content for whatever COD, Batman, fifa game comes out
-Independent developer support. a biggy for me, indie games are more likely to think outside the box and deliver something with less marketability restrictions
-Playstation Plus / World - although it remains to be seen how this will be implemented. I know nothing about this stuff myself
-The superior hardware allows for greater longevity than the X1 too. probably not, but games will look and perform better during the PS4's lifespan than the X1

Added my own replies in bold definitely going to be getting a ps4. (x360 owner)

Beefy78

padair wrote: »

There is more down time with PlayStation Network that with Xbox live.

Actually, is that the case any more? I can't remember the last time I tried to log on to PSN and it was down for maintenance. Maybe I've just been lucky but it must be a year or so now.

Beefy78

pleasant Co. wrote: »

meh

Surely not needing batteries for the controller is a major plus. Changing them on the 360 looks like a right pain in the arse.