PS4 Megathread

NTMK

richymcdermott wrote: »

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/playstation-4-not-backwards-compatible-with-retail-or-digital-games

Despit retail ps3 games not working , neither does digital games . .. Wtf

no cell processor means no ps3 emulation they'll hopefully give free streaming access to said games though

AlmightyCushion

One thing I just realised is that AMD's jaguar platform is a replacement for bobcat. It's competing at the lower end with Intel's Atom and meant for tablets and low powered laptops. Steamroller is the high performance platform competing with the Core iX series. The processor on this could be a little on the weak side.

FistKing

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Because they were still coded to work on PS3's Cell IBM platform.

Come on now, you guys are making me think you can't reason...

I'm not complaining about it being an easy task but this just creates a hassle for the customer. There should have been some solution to this, easier than it sounds I know but still.

NTMK

FistKing wrote: »

I'm not complaining about it being an easy task but this just creates a hassle for the customer. There should have been some solution to this, easier than it sounds I know but still.

keep your console its not going to save alot trading it in
puting in the cell would push the price up €100 roughly and ibm have dropped it so finding a manufacturer to make the chips would get a lot harder

stevenmu

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

One thing I just realised is that AMD's jaguar platform is a replacement for bobcat. It's competing at the lower end with Intel's Atom and meant for tablets and low powered laptops. Steamroller is the high performance platform competing with the Core iX series. The processor on this could be a little on the weak side.

Yeah, it is on the lower powered side. That will be helped somewhat by having 8 cores. It'll also be helped by the fast GDDR5 memory, calls to memory are expensive and can waste a lot of clock cycles, quicker memory can help that a lot. Finally it'll also be helped by offloading some functionality to the "compute" modules on the custom GPU, they'll be a big help for things like physics and AI.

It's very hard to say how much they'll help though. It'd be very interesting to see some standard CPU benchmarks run on a PS4 to compare against various standard PC CPUs, but I don't imagine Sony will allow that.

nucker

Any images of the new PS4?

Icyseanfitz

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

NES: 1983
Super Nintendo: 1990
Nintendo 64: 1996
Gamecube: 2001
Wii: 2006
Wii U: 2012

Average time between release: 5.8 years
Time: 7-6-5-5-6

Sony Playstation: 1994
Playstation 2: 2000
Playstation 3: 2006
Playstation 4: 2013 (tentative)

Average time between release: 6.33 years
Time: 6-6-6-7

Microsoft Xbox: 2001
Xbox 360: 2005
Xbox 720: 2013 (tentative)

Average time between release: 6 years
Time: 4-8

Sega SG-1000: 1983
Master System: 1985
Mega Drive: 1988
Saturn: 1994
Dreamcast: 1998

Average time between release: 3.75 years
Time: 2-3-6-4


Where is this 5-year lifecycle coming from?

well 5-6 years is a lot better than 7-8 years in my books, console games tend to stagnate after 5ish years as they have pretty much reached what the limit is in what they can do with the hardware (not just talking flashy visuals here)

the 360 came out in 2005, thats far too long in my opinion

Captain Chaos

nucker wrote: »

Any images of the new PS4?

No, it's not finished yet. The final design has not yet been decided.

Varik

First bit of bad new as far as I'm concerned.


The PS4 won't support Dualshock 3 or Six-axis (if you still using them), only the move will work with the PS4.

Captain Chaos

Varik wrote: »

First bit of bad new as far as I'm concerned.


The PS4 won't support Dualshock 3 or Six-axis (if you still using them), only the move will work with the PS4.

Well the PS2 did not support PS1 pads and the PS3 didn't support PS2 pads. Issue? I for one am glad the old dual shock design is gone and we now have a heavier, chunkier pad to get to grips with. About time, 20 years almost with the same design.

The bad news is PSN+ digital downloads not working on the PS4. That's a kick in the nads.

Rabies

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Where is this 5-year lifecycle coming from?

Add up all those average life cycles you mentioned and get an average and the result is 5.47
Close enough

:pac:

DylanAFC

Did they say anything regarding price and release date?

Varik

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Well the PS2 did not support PS1 pads and the PS3 didn't support PS2 pads. Issue? I for one am glad the old dual shock design is gone and we now have a heavier, chunkier pad to get to grips with. About time, 20 years almost with the same design.

They already said that the Move would work with the PS4, so it wasn't that far fetched.

I'd want it to be usable so I don't have to buy a load of controllers, getting 2 DS4 would have been enough with the DS3 doing for the odd time you'd want more for some local mp

Zero-Cool

Does anyone have any info on Drive Club? Sounds like a really good idea if pulled off right. Kinda like Test Drive Unlimited 2...except with proper driving.

eddhorse

So all our PSN stuff is useless if I get a PS4, how do I sell my PS3?
Can't advertise that it might have 20 games? Do I delete my account and they stay there? Do I sell my PSN account?

Varik

sheehy83 wrote: »

Does anyone have any info on Drive Club? Sounds like a really good idea if pulled off right. Kinda like Test Drive Unlimited 2...except with proper driving.

Hopefully it does great, if for no other reason than to show Polyphony that they're expendable.

Sony's Japanese studios really need a kick up the arse, Polyphony and Team Ico couldn't be more unproductive if they tried.

Icyseanfitz

Varik wrote: »

Hopefully it does great, if for no other reason than to show Polyphony that they're expendable.

Sony's Japanese studios really need a kick up the arse, Polyphony and Team Ico couldn't be more unproductive if they tried.

lets not forget square (even if their not first party) that crap they pulled last night was downright insulting

K.O.Kiki

eddhorse wrote: »

So all our PSN stuff is useless if I get a PS4, how do I sell my PS3?
Can't advertise that it might have 20 games? Do I delete my account and they stay there? Do I sell my PSN account?

IIRC you can delete your account but the games stay there. Obviously the buyer won't be able to re-download them, though.

Seriously though, WAIT AND SEE.
The machine won't be released for another 8-9 months.

Varik wrote: »

Hopefully it does great, if for no other reason than to show Polyphony that they're expendable.

Sony's Japanese studios really need a kick up the arse, Polyphony and Team Ico couldn't be more unproductive if they tried.

Team Ico are tiny (less than 40): http://teamico.wikia.com/wiki/Team_Ico

And let's not forget that Ico was originally developed for PS1, then moved to PS2 -- and all the better for it.

COYVB

FistKing wrote: »

I'm not complaining about it being an easy task but this just creates a hassle for the customer. There should have been some solution to this, easier than it sounds I know but still.

How does it create a hassle? PS3 games are for PS3. You want to keep playing them, keep your PS3. You might as well complain that the bloody thing won't play your Xbox 360 games FFS

BlitzKrieg

COYVB wrote: »

How does it create a hassle? PS3 games are for PS3. You want to keep playing them, keep your PS3. You might as well complain that the bloody thing won't play your Xbox 360 games FFS

I think this kotaku article hits the nail on the head very nicely on why the lack of backward compatibility will be an issue:

Here it was. Bad news. Sony must have figured that they might as well get that one out of the way. Some people will tell you that backwards compatibility doesn't matter or that it only matters short-term or not not enough to justify the cost. Whatever. You'd rather have it than not, I think. Sony's pushing some amazing-looking games like Last of Us and Beyond for PS3 this year, and if you're a fervent enough fan of interesting games to know those exist, you might well be someone who wants to get a PS4 this holiday season. And if you want those games and that system, then you're probably going to want to keep a PS3 alongside your new PS4. That's aggravating no matter what the technical explanation involving incompatible system architectures is. And no cloud-gaming promise is going to hold much weight with people who live in places where a fast, consistent, persistent Internet connect is not guaranteed (thanks for nothing, Time Warner Cable).



I've been through console transitions before that had no backwards compatibility. I got rid of my Super Nintendo when I was in college, kept a few cartridges but took to leap to the disc-based GameCube. It was bittersweet. I missed playing Yoshi's Island almost immediately. I didn't mind the Xbox-Xbox360 transition. That one, I could jump without missing much, and Microsoft got most of my old favorites to run on 360 eventually. Sony's Yoshida has already sent some mixed signals about whether a Last of Us or Beyond might come to PS4. He told Eurogamer that, hey, since gamers and game-makers liked seeing some PS2 games rebuilt to run on PS3, sure, "I think for some [PS3] games it will make sense for us to look at." But he also acknowledged at a separate meeting with reporters today that doing that kind of thing is "not [Sony's] focus." There's "focus" and then there's what makes sense and there's not frustrating the loyal fans.

I saw Ubisoft's Watch Dogs apparently running on PS4 or at least with a PS4 controller at last night's event. And that game is supposedly still coming to PS3, Xbox 360 and PC. So, if Ubisoft can make PS3 and PS4 versions, which PS3 owner is going to be ok buying Last of Us for PS3 in June and not being given a way to play it on their new PS4 in November? Looks like there's a solution for Sony there, if they want make the effort to port. Easier said than done, I know.

http://kotaku.com/5986059/the-ps4-one-day-later

COYVB

That does nothing to explain why on earth a PS4 should play PS3 games. They're different things

RoverZT

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The big jump in performance is because the graphics chip built in to the processor is limited by the memory bandwidth of the system because it shares that system memory. The GPU in the PS5 isn't built in to the processor, it's a separate card altogether with it's only memory (still GDDR5) so the system memory being GDDR5 won't give that big a boost.

To get an idea of how the PS5 will perform you should be ignoring graphics benchmarks of the AMD APUs and instead looking at performance of the AMD 78XX graphics cards. There is no real comparison, the 78XX series will absolutely smoke the built in graphics on AMD APUs.

GPU in the PS4 isn't a seperate card, it's on the same die as the cpu.

Memory being GDDR5 will give it a huge boost, it's pretty unique

No PCs currently use GDDR5 for main system memory. It is an extremely fast high bandwidth type of memory that is currently only used by high end graphics cards. 3-4x faster than the system memory in a modern PC.

You can't go onto hardwareverand and buy GDDR5 for your pc's motherboard, plebs like you ous have no access to it.

All consoles use custom GPU/CPU/APUs, they are really not comparable to PC's, sure the tech is basically the same, but it's custom and very efficient.

Stupid analogy maybe, but it's like a 2.0l 300bhp Mitsubishi Evo Rally car vs the 300bhp Mitsubishi Evo road car.

Both cars have the same basic engine, same bhp, torque etc.

But the rally car, has custom gearbox, suspension, custom everything and because of that it is much much quicker.

You can't say my PC with 8gb ram, 7850, Core i3 will be the same, because it's not.

Your 1000bhp Bugatti Veyron ( 16gb ram, GTX 690, Core i7 ) of course will be faster than the rally car at most things like straight line speed.

Standard current gaming PCs with ddr3 have around 50 GB/s memory bandwidth.



PS4's supposed memory bandwidth is 178 GB/s, more than triple the amount of your average current gaming PC. It can shovel around massive amounts of data with unprecedented ease and speed.


3 gigs of data per frame at 60fps.


That's why the PS4's architecture is a big deal. Games will be optimized for the PS4's memory bandwidth, and it will enable a quantum leap in regards to game fidelity.



Epic, Crytek etc are full of praise for it and we will see why.

RoverZT

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It's a big jump

The card that is in the PS4 is based on a high end current gen graphics card.For an idea of how games will look, you'll get something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwPClll3z3o

Next gen consoles will look way better than that.

5 watt handhelds will have comparable visuals to that in 5 years.

By the middle of next gen consoles life cycles we will have incredible visuals.

PC isn't a gaming machine, but could do better than consoles. There is no contradiction in there

Ericaa

Jumboman wrote: »

Any word yet on what sort of media it will use ? I dont think blu rays are big enough for 4k games.

That's because the games won't be 4K.

Sephiroth_dude

No way am i trading in my ps3.

So who here has pre ordered already?

ShadowHearth

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Well the PS2 did not support PS1 pads and the PS3 didn't support PS2 pads. Issue? I for one am glad the old dual shock design is gone and we now have a heavier, chunkier pad to get to grips with. About time, 20 years almost with the same design.

The bad news is PSN+ digital downloads not working on the PS4. That's a kick in the nads.

I have to say, that I will be glad to see damn thing go. The most annoying thing about ps3 was always controller. It was grand when it was ps1 and ps2, but on ps3 it was quite outdated.
Thumb sticks were bad and trigger button were even worse. I love driving games and using "press X" for go go go was like living in a Stone Age.
At least ps3 controller had proper directional buttons. Where's Xbox had great thumb stocks and trigger buttons, but directional pad was a lot of cock.

I really hope this new controller has proper buttons.

And one more thing, as TB mentioned, would that not make more sence to have touch control on the bottom of controller, not on top. It's like you need to use your cock of nose to use that thing, because all other fingers already busy. Ps vita rear touch pad is quite handy!

ShadowHearth

RoverZT wrote: »

GPU in the PS4 isn't a seperate card, it's on the same die as the cpu.

Memory being GDDR5 will give it a huge boost, it's pretty unique

No PCs currently use GDDR5 for main system memory. It is an extremely fast high bandwidth type of memory that is currently only used by high end graphics cards. 3-4x faster than the system memory in a modern PC.

You can't go onto hardwareverand and buy GDDR5 for your pc's motherboard, plebs like you ous have no access to it.

All consoles use custom GPU/CPU/APUs, they are really not comparable to PC's, sure the tech is basically the same, but it's custom and very efficient.

Stupid anaslogy maybe, but it's like a 2.0l 300bhp Mitsubishi Evo Rally car vs the 300bhp Mitsubishi Evo road car.

Both cars have the same basic engine, same bhp, torque etc.

But the rally car, has custom gearbox, suspension, custom everything and because of that it is much much quicker.

You can't say my PC with 8gb ram, 7850, Core i3 will be the same, because it's not.
P
Your 1000bhp Bugatti Veyron ( 16gb ram, GTX 690, Core i7 ) of course will be faster than the rally car at most things like straight line speed.

Standard current gaming PCs with ddr3 have around 50 GB/s memory bandwidth.



PS4's supposed memory bandwidth is 178 GB/s, more than triple the amount of your average current gaming PC. It can shovel around massive amounts of data with unprecedented ease and speed.


3 gigs of data per frame at 60fps.


That's why the PS4's architecture is a big deal. Games will be optimized for the PS4's memory bandwidth, and it will enable a quantum leap in regards to game fidelity.



Epic, Crytek etc are full of praise for it and we will see why.

I have to say, it's quite a good explanation. I will admit, I am getting more positive outlook for the machine, but I still think conference was ****.

I am not saying that I will run down to GameStop and preorder it now. I am going to wait more solid info, more gameplay, launch titles, and most important - price,

Taltos

Haven't pre-ordered yet.
Having shelled out full price for the PS3 on launch day only to have to replace it a few years later I am of a mind to wait - have a huge back catalog of games to get through first there as well as playing with the Ouya when that ships next month.

In terms of the announcements
> games - quite a few I am looking forwards to
> touchpad on controller - holding judgement on that until I get to try it - seems like an awkward position but am sure there is logic there.
> integrated move and sensor bar - turn offs for me personally, my tv area is cramped enough without another device, one of the reasons (not the only) I shifted my Wii.
> gaiki - sounds really good, extra chip to allow us to play immediately will definitely remove some of the current pain in having to update new games as soon as you put them in. However I am also 2k away from Eircom exchange with max 2M speeds - not enough to play on line so will have to wait and see if that helps as much as I hope it will.
> backwards compatibility - planning on keeping the PS3, and have a 2nd hand PS2 - with the 360 and soon Ouya it is all getting a little cramped...

Thoughts on the show:
Felt like a very polished marketing blitz, loads of words with little meat interspersed with some great demos. Reminded me of investor statements from the company I work with - even the tempo was just too polished for me (felt like I was at work for a moment).
So - yes - I was excited but I did leave a bit disappointed. Can see why they did this
> start the buzz
> follow up at E3 and keep focus off Microsoft.
Now - how to win - personally I think they need to go for a global launch before Christmas and more importantly I think they need to price this in a manner to ensure massive take up. So price point of last time won't do it - 399 is just about right - still high for new adopters but think many of us would find it acceptable. 349 though or even 329 might trigger some of the hedgers to jump in. If they can really capitalise on the market and get a massive take up they stand a good chance of getting a leap. However, based on past experience not sure they will see it this way - might be too much of a loss to sell at - and thus they run the risk of pricing themselves out of the market - assuming 720 comes out around the same time at an aggressive price.

My hopes:
> Global release - pre December - no later than mid-December
> Wide spectrum of games
> online promotions - aka PS Plus discounting
> Low price - 329, no more than 399 - including 2 controllers and hdmi
> sufficient internal storage none of this 12G stuff and ideally SSD...
> none of what we saw before - rushed manufacture, insufficient cooling etc.

(ps took me ages to look at the sticky section to see this thread again - was hunting everywhere )

Richard Dower

Very good analysis here

I concede having GDDR5 as system and GPU memory is a big deal...and a first. But I do want to point out that GDDR6 and DDR4 will be coming in the next 12-18 months.

So the advantages you point out could be wiped out, that's the nature of PC tech. HDMI 2.0, Thunderbolt etc. will be become standard.

My concern is that will be face in two-three years time the PS3 faced, ergo the PS3 was bottlenecked by the 512MB RAM limit....will the PS4 face a CPU/GPU limit down the line?

RoverZT wrote: »

GPU in the PS4 isn't a seperate card, it's on the same die as the cpu.

Memory being GDDR5 will give it a huge boost, it's pretty unique

No PCs currently use GDDR5 for main system memory. It is an extremely fast high bandwidth type of memory that is currently only used by high end graphics cards. 3-4x faster than the system memory in a modern PC.

You can't go onto hardwareverand and buy GDDR5 for your pc's motherboard, plebs like you ous have no access to it.

All consoles use custom GPU/CPU/APUs, they are really not comparable to PC's, sure the tech is basically the same, but it's custom and very efficient.

Stupid analogy maybe, but it's like a 2.0l 300bhp Mitsubishi Evo Rally car vs the 300bhp Mitsubishi Evo road car.

Both cars have the same basic engine, same bhp, torque etc.

But the rally car, has custom gearbox, suspension, custom everything and because of that it is much much quicker.

You can't say my PC with 8gb ram, 7850, Core i3 will be the same, because it's not.

Your 1000bhp Bugatti Veyron ( 16gb ram, GTX 690, Core i7 ) of course will be faster than the rally car at most things like straight line speed.

Standard current gaming PCs with ddr3 have around 50 GB/s memory bandwidth.



PS4's supposed memory bandwidth is 178 GB/s, more than triple the amount of your average current gaming PC. It can shovel around massive amounts of data with unprecedented ease and speed.


3 gigs of data per frame at 60fps.


That's why the PS4's architecture is a big deal. Games will be optimized for the PS4's memory bandwidth, and it will enable a quantum leap in regards to game fidelity.



Epic, Crytek etc are full of praise for it and we will see why.

Richard Dower

Can anyone answer this question, this is a BIG deal to me and may sway my purchasing decision?....in terms of media playback capability...will the PS4 play .mkv files and FLAC files?