Mansfield Town v Liverpool FC - the Romance of the Cup at 4 pm ESPN

budgemook

Xavi6 wrote: »

I didn't say defending him tonight was as clear as day, my comment was a general one regarding any incident involving Suarez. No matter the clarity then some people on this forum, or in general day to day life, will try to defend him. It's understandable to an extent if he plays for your club and is by far and away the best player but at some point common sense has to come into it. Some of the tackles this season have been terrible and he's been very lucky to get away with them, others have been sent off for less.

Now of course he isn't the only one, Scholes is a good example of a player who got away with plenty in his day, but we're talking about Suarez today so anything else brought up is just a deflection.

As far as I'm concerned he handled the ball deliberately today, your suggestion that he kicked the ball into the net afterwards in anticipation of a free out backs up the presence of wrongdoing. So essentially we're on the same wavelength here.

Yet you've gone to the point of saying I've an axe to grind but I still don't know what that could be over as you've not clarified. I don't go out of my way to troll anyone around here but I give opinions, take them at face value if you want. If not then just stick me on ignore or don't reply.

This is the match thread for the Mansfield game. We should be talking about incidents from the game. By suggesting people defend what he did even though it's clearly wrong I thought you were saying what he did tonight was clearly wrong. It was not. Maybe it was intentional but definitely not clearly.

Suarez obviously knew he handballed it (which is what my kicking comment was about) - still doesn't mean it was intentional. Just means he has two of the main senses, touch and sight, working quite well.

I never said anything about axes or grinding nor do I have any interest in putting any poster on ignore. All I wanted was clarification on this clear wrong doing.

budgemook

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I know Lfc were winning and they deserved either way to go through as better team by far but this will have costansfield a huge amount..

Nice gesture with the 96 seats, Suarez should have owned up plain and simple

Suarez should have owned up? Give me a break. Should hand balling defenders own up when they get away with it? What about defenders when a player is wrongfully ruled offside?

Vanolder

Win at all costs. It is the job of the officials to call decisions like handball. Well done King Luis.

Grayditch

Bit disappointed in Xavi, now I have to say. Not in difference of opinion just his demeanor in this thread. Ah, well.

DARK-KNIGHT

budgemook wrote: »

Suarez should have owned up? Give me a break. Should hand balling defenders own up when they get away with it? What about defenders when a player is wrongfully ruled offside?

Ok so you wouldn't be saying opposing player to lfc shouldn't play by rules if it cost you a major decision??

Henry was devil man for doing it.. What irks me is Suarez being protected from any criticism re diving, bad dangerous tackles and todays incident. I think he is a great footballer but trouble follows him.

niallo27

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Ok so you wouldn't be saying opposing player to lfc shouldn't play by rules if it cost you a major decision??

Henry was devil man for doing it.. What irks me is Suarez being protected from any criticism re diving, bad dangerous tackles and todays incident. I think he is a great footballer but trouble follows him.

I wouldnt anyway, i would be roaring abuse at the officials for not seeing an obvious handball. On the dangerous tackle thing, the man get kicked up and down the field every week and stamped on and he puts a few dodgy tackles back and he is the anti-christ.

budgemook

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Ok so you wouldn't be saying opposing player to lfc shouldn't play by rules if it cost you a major decision??

Henry was devil man for doing it.. What irks me is Suarez being protected from any criticism re diving, bad dangerous tackles and todays incident. I think he is a great footballer but trouble follows him.

I would never say the player should own up to an unintentional hand ball.

I would not expect a player to own up to an intentional hand ball.

Trouble does follow him for sure and that's not good but the agenda in the media against him and from many posters on here is completely out of order and over the top.

Carcharodon

A bit idiotic of people to concentrate on Suarez when no one actually knows what his intentions were, he only did what his job entails.

All the attention should be on the officials, it is their job to make the correct calls and they failed on this occasion.

Obvious some people have a big hatred of Suarez and some have an unconditional love.

Xavi6

budgemook wrote: »

This is the match thread for the Mansfield game. We should be talking about incidents from the game. By suggesting people defend what he did even though it's clearly wrong I thought you were saying what he did tonight was clearly wrong. It was not. Maybe it was intentional but definitely not clearly.

Suarez obviously knew he handballed it (which is what my kicking comment was about) - still doesn't mean it was intentional. Just means he has two of the main senses, touch and sight, working quite well.

I never said anything about axes or grinding nor do I have any interest in putting any poster on ignore. All I wanted was clarification on this clear wrong doing.

Apologies, it was another poster who said that then disappeared without explaining.

I believe his handball was intentional and you think otherwise, that's fair enough. Tbh I'd prefer to leave it at that at this point.

If I get a ban for my posting in this thread (presumably Mike and a few others have hit report) then fair enough, but I make no apologies for giving an opinion on a game I watched.

budgemook

Xavi6 wrote: »

Apologies, it was another poster who said that then disappeared without explaining.

I believe his handball was intentional and you think otherwise, that's fair enough. Tbh I'd prefer to leave it at that at this point.

If I get a ban for my posting in this thread (presumably Mike and a few others have hit report) then fair enough, but I make no apologies for giving an opinion on a game I watched.

Argh! You're going back on what you said! All I had a problem with was you saying clear wrong doing.

Do you think it was clearly an intentional hand ball today? You already said no. I'm only interested in what you have to say about today's game.

EDIT: I think the problem others are having is nothing to do with your opinion on todays game, more the general window licker one. Also, I think you're talking to me as if I'm 3 posters in one. You already said it wasn't clearly intentional. I'm happy with that.

Corholio

To be honest I don't think the intentional or not argument, in rule terms, is black or white. My opinions on the goal is that it should have definitely been disallowed, it's just too clear and 99% of the time it would have been disallowed without any complaints from the player, I don't think Suarez would have argued at all if it had been whistled. I see penalties given week in, week out for shots from 5 yards away hitting the defenders arm thats down by his side or just slightly out, this is more clear IMO.

It's been a delight to watch Suarez this season football wise, but now and again he just has these sneaky incidents where he chances his arm, pun intended, to get away with it.

Essien

Just watching this on ESPN now and I can't believe people are complaining about Suarez here(actually, maybe I can), his body language clearly showed he knew he had handled the ball and that the thought the goal would be disallowed.

It was a natural reaction ffs, then the finish was in frustration , if I was a manager and my forward didn't do exactly what Suarez did I'd be well pissed off. Play the whistle.

The officials are the only ones at fault here.

Handsome Bob

Fell asleep after the match, had no idea the trouble Suarez caused on here with his goal. Lol to be honest.

Wow. Few people embarrassing themselves!

LuckyLloyd

Haters gonna hate

Lovely Bloke

Brendan Rod'gers said that h asked the 4th official was it a handball at the time, and was told they'd seen it, and decided it was unintentional.

Link

"The ball has popped up, it's hit him and, after that, it is up to the officials what they do. I said to the fourth official straight away: 'Was that handball?' and he said they had seen it but they decided that it was not deliberate.

Which is fair enough, given the Law on the subject

involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm

Not deliberate = not a foul.

The discussion as to whether or not Suarez actually meant it now involves clairvoyancy and the abilities to mind read.

Which is obviously extremely stupid.

niallo27

I was listening to talksport on my way home from work and they were still on about Suarez kissing his hand after the goal and his cheeky smile. It's just such lazy journalism it's pathetic.

Lovely Bloke

niallo27 wrote: »

I was listening to talksport on my way home from work and they were still on about Suarez kissing his hand after the goal and his cheeky smile. It's just such lazy journalism it's pathetic.

No way.

niallo27

TheNinthGate wrote: »

No way.

I know I know, you would still think after a day since it happened they would know this is the celebration he uses for every goal.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

I was listening to talksport on my way home from work and they were still on about Suarez kissing his hand after the goal and his cheeky smile. It's just such lazy journalism it's pathetic.

Their minds will explode when he scores his next goal with his head/foot and kisses his hand.

greendom

rarnes1 wrote: »

Their minds will explode when he scores his next goal with his head/foot and kisses his hand.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that :D

intellectual dosser

On the rule, can someone explain if the referee is entitled to show discretion where a handball wasn't intentional but a player gains a significant advantage from it?

Graham Poll saying that Suarez was blameless for the handball and even if he owned up to it being a handball, the goal would have stood.

syngindub

still don't understand what people are getting annoyed about.
Officials got it wrong, end of.

Leiva

There is not going to be enough rocks on earth for some on here to hide under if any player from the team they support do anything that remotely resembles bad sportsmanship.

Julez

syngindub wrote: »

still don't understand what people are getting annoyed about.
Officials got it wrong, end of.

Have to agree. As a United fan I wouldn't be Suarez biggest fan, but I don't think he tried to handle the ball, but unintentional or not, his hand was in the air and hit the ball which led to a goal. Rodgers said one of the officials saw it too, if thats not a hand ball then I don't know what is.

But, yeah, not Suarez fault at all. 99% of players would have just scored it and said nothing like he did.

elefant

citytillidie wrote: »

Plenty of players have handled the ball on the line and have not had the same level of hate that Suarez has had for doing it

To be fair, I think for a lot of people it was his massive celebrations after Gyan missed the penalty that rancours. It stunk of terrible sportsmanship.

PhiloCypher

Xavi6 wrote: »

Apologies, it was another poster who said that then disappeared without explaining.

I believe his handball was intentional and you think otherwise, that's fair enough. Tbh I'd prefer to leave it at that at this point.

If I get a ban for my posting in this thread (presumably Mike and a few others have hit report) then fair enough, but I make no apologies for giving an opinion on a game I watched.

Mansfield Matt Green had this to say :

Mansfield Town striker Matt Green has revealed his disappointment at losing to Liverpool in controversial circumstances.

Reds striker Luiz Suarez netted the game's winning goal in which he appeared to use his hand to control the ball, as the Premier League outfit progressed to the next round with a 2-1 victory.

However, Green, who scored the Blue Square Bet Premier side's goal, has admitted that he would have copied the Uruguayan if put in the same situation.

"Of course, to go out in that manner against one of the biggest clubs in Europe is gut-wrenching," said Green. "We're very disappointed. Against a big club such a big club like Liverpool, you don't want to be going out in this style. I felt we matched them at times and we gave everything we have.

"Luis Suarez is a goal scorer and if that had happened at the other end I would have taken it.

"If that had happened to anyone else they would've taken it. It's something the officials and referees should pick up on. The referee had a bad view, but the linesmen should've seen it."

Between their manager and now Green that's now two people with the most reason to have an axe to grind with Luis saying they would do or accept the same , that they can hold such a pragmatic view after it turned out to be a decisive moment and you(supposedly unbiased) can't and resort to calling people windows lickers says more about the "axe" you have then I ever could, but then what would I know I'm one of the windows licker apparently.

Of course even after the ordinary decent pro's come out in grudging defence of Luis saying they & 99 out of a 100 would do/accept it you will still have people in the media acting like Luis is some new breed of evil let loose on the EPL/world.

DDC1990

Julez wrote: »

Have to agree. As a United fan I wouldn't be Suarez biggest fan, but I don't think he tried to handle the ball, but unintentional or not, his hand was in the air and hit the ball which led to a goal. Rodgers said one of the officials saw it too, if thats not a hand ball then I don't know what is.

But, yeah, not Suarez fault at all. 99% of players would have just scored it and said nothing like he did.

Law 12: Fouls and Misconduct:

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:

• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)

• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)

• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement

This is on the BBC website. But if this was the case there would only be 1 or 2 penalties given a season!

Most penalties are given on the basis, as you have said, of the hand being away from the body. But according to the rules, that doesn't automatically mean a penalty!

I think that the goal shouldn't have stood, but im not sure of the exact rule, because I don't think he intentionally moved his hand towards the ball and the ball bounced out towards him very quickly.

As I stated in a different thread, Im not blindly defending Suarez. I think if a similar situation occurred and he had the chance to deliberatly control the ball to score a goal, he'd do it without a second thought. Just in this case I wouldn't be sure that it was deliberate.

Hidalgo

elefant wrote: »

To be fair, I think for a lot of people it was his massive celebrations after Gyan missed the penalty that rancours. It stunk of terrible sportsmanship.

Look at what was at stake. his handball progressed Uruguay to the semi?finals of a World Cup.

He was hardly going to start bawling

Hidalgo

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I know Lfc were winning and they deserved either way to go through as better team by far but this will have costansfield a huge amount..

Nice gesture with the 96 seats, Suarez should have owned up plain and simple

If a player scores willingly from an offside position should he own up?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Xavi6 wrote: »

Go personal if you like, I commented on the football so would prefer to stick with that. Cheers.

Think it's a bit rich for you to go single out Suarez and then call "personal".

Leftist

Hidalgo wrote: »

If a player scores willingly from an offside position should he own up?

hardly likely he will know he's offside, especially if it's given.

I see some liverpool fans have the decency to say yes, he cheats, in your face about it. At least they are honest. Most teams have cheats, nani is an embarrassing cheat for instance. but there comes a time when you just have to admit it. the 'leave him alone' brigade are just weird. the guy was banend for racist abuse, biting a player and has deliberatly tried to injure players. He is what he is, a villan, stop trying to pretend it's unfair that villans get stick.

PhiloCypher

Leftist wrote: »

hardly likely he will know he's offside, especially if it's given.

What about a defender who handles it in the box in the 90th minute with the scores level, should he/would you expect him to own up ?

Leftist

PhiloCypher wrote: »

What about a defender who handles it in the box in the 90th minute with the scores level, should he/would you expect him to own up ?

My expectations don't count for anything but it depends on the personality. If it was terry I wouldn't expect it.

I don't expect suarez to do what klose did and admit he handled it. Why would anyone expect that from suarez given his track record?

the point is, he's a serial offender. he, imo, delibaretly handled it. He's going to get stick for that. moaning about a serial cheat getting stick for yet another instance of cheating is just pointless.

Dcully

Leftist wrote: »

My expectations don't count for anything but it depends on the personality. If it was terry I wouldn't expect it.

I don't expect suarez to do what klose did and admit he handled it. Why would anyone expect that from suarez given his track record?

the point is, he's a serial offender. he, imo, delibaretly handled it. He's going to get stick for that. moaning about a serial cheat getting stick for yet another instance of cheating is just pointless.

serial cheat? jaysus thats hilarious.

Iang87

The reaction of everyone cos a ref made a mistake in suarez favour is just brilliant.

could ye kindly tell me where ye have been all year when he hasn't got a decision from any ref. Realistically the lad could have penalties every second game but never gets them and now he gets one decision and he's a serial cheat.

Come of it lads absolutely ridiculous

ssaye

Iang87 wrote: »

The reaction of everyone cos a ref made a mistake in suarez favour is just brilliant.

could ye kindly tell me where ye have been all year when he hasn't got a decision from any ref. Realistically the lad could have penalties every second game but never gets them and now he gets one decision and he's a serial cheat.

Come of it lads absolutely ridiculous

Officials screw up for Suarez goal V Everton which would be a real 6 pointer in the league. Officials screw up yesterday with handball. Where is all the hate for the officials.

Will I Amnt

Leiva wrote: »

There is not going to be enough rocks on earth for some on here to hide under if any player from the team they support do anything that remotely resembles bad sportsmanship.

It's Manchester United v Mansfield in the FA Cup, United win 2-1, Rooney has scored what turns out to be the winning goal by using his hand to control the ball before sticking it in the net.

Do we (a) forget about, shìt happens
(b) bitch, moan, cry about it, defend it, start a thread about conspiracies and darkest days in football.

I think we all know the answer to that, don't know why you think it should be different when it happens your club.

joe123

This thread is daft. Surely you all have something better to do than go round in circles arguing back and forth.

One side will say hes a cheat and say hes terrible. Blah blah.

The other side will say if it was any other player there wouldnt be this level of critiscism etc. Blah blah.

Surely time to lock this up.

Leiva

cambo2008 wrote: »

It's Manchester United v Mansfield in the FA Cup, United win 2-1, Rooney has scored what turns out to be the winning goal by using his hand to control the ball before sticking it in the net.

Do we (a) forget about, shìt happens
(b) bitch, moan, cry about it, defend it, start a thread about conspiracies and darkest days in football.

I think we all know the answer to that, don't know why you think it should be different when it happens your club.

sorry I'm not really any good at playing Lets Pretend.

and i think you missed the point of my post.

I'm all up for banter and calling up things I see as being incorrect, but I will always keep within what I personally think I would do in everyday life.

The same cannot be said for some posters in here who I think have just hopped on the pigs back and spouted some amount of shíte just because fo the club/player involved. shíte that i think they wouldn't say outside an internet forum. buy hey lets forget about everything cause we are able to hide behind our online persona's.

Leftist

Leiva wrote: »

sorry I'm not really any good at playing Lets Pretend.

and i think you missed the point of my post.

I'm all up for banter and calling up things I see as being incorrect, but I will always keep within what I personally think I would do in everyday life.

The same cannot be said for some posters in here who I think have just hopped on the pigs back and spouted some amount of shíte just because fo the club/player involved. shíte that i think they wouldn't say outside an internet forum. buy hey lets forget about everything cause we are able to hide behind our online persona's.

what's that supposed to mean? that people would be afraid to call suarez a cheat in real life? for what, fear of reprisals?

what are you going to do, beat them up?

mike65

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2258363/Graham-Poll-Luis-Suarez-Jon-Champion-cheating-slur-Mansfield.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Leiva

Leftist wrote: »

what's that supposed to mean? that people would be afraid to call suarez a cheat in real life? for what, fear of reprisals?

what are you going to do, beat them up?

yep you're on the money

Will I Amnt

Leiva wrote: »

sorry I'm not really any good at playing Lets Pretend.

and i think you missed the point of my post.

I'm all up for banter and calling up things I see as being incorrect, but I will always keep within what I personally think I would do in everyday life.

The same cannot be said for some posters in here who I think have just hopped on the pigs back and spouted some amount of shíte just because fo the club/player involved. shíte that i think they wouldn't say outside an internet forum. buy hey lets forget about everything cause we are able to hide behind our online persona's.

It's the same for everybody though. There's posters here waffling on about this and that and then you have others arguing the opposite. When you change the teams around you have the very same posters arguing the other side of the point they're trying to make here.

It's crazy and I'll hold my hand up and say I've done similar before but I don't see the point in it anymore.

Leiva

mike65 wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2258363/Graham-Poll-Luis-Suarez-Jon-Champion-cheating-slur-Mansfield.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

As for this 'he should have owned up to the ref' nonsense...you don't do 50mph in a 30mph zone & hand yourself into the police for speeding because they didn't catch you!

Leftist

Leiva wrote: »

yep you're on the money

shíte that i think they wouldn't say outside an internet forum. buy hey lets forget about everything cause we are able to hide behind our online persona's.

what else would it mean?

Leiva

Leftist wrote: »

what else would it mean?

saying typing things that they really don't believe themselves but suits the agenda at the time.

mike65

Its been interesting to read the published opinion about the handball since the game, only opposition fans, trolls and bores (James Lawton) are outraged at this point, everyone else seems to have decided much worse things happen.

missingtime

mike65 wrote: »

Its been interesting to read the published opinion about the handball since the game, only opposition fans, trolls and bores (James Lawton) are outraged at this point, everyone else seems to have decided much worse things happen.

James Lawton's piece is particularly bad. The comments after the article are quite good though.