Is Ubuntu for mobile a big threat to Android?

Zascar

You may have seen that a new mobile version of Ubuntu is going to be released soon, and from the videos below it looks pretty impressive - their use of the screen and swyping seems excellent, certainly beats Androids apps switching anyway.

Short video review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtcj7FdIYA

Full keynote - 20 mins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXWnMTm7We8

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It has the ability to be a full linux pc when docked - its built to be light and simple for lower range phones, but also boards full OS capability and totally enterprise class security and manageability.

However some think it hasn't got a chance. There are concerns how far behind they are in the app market

I'm certainly very interested to try it - what do you guys think? Will it take some Android market share? Can Android 'borrow' some of the features that seem to really work well without an Apple style lawsuit? What will this mean for iOS?

Sonics2k

I wouldn't say it's a big threat, at least not now.

We know it won't be readily released on handsets until 2014, and Android has a major market share as well as make backing from Samsung, Sony and HTC which gives it another make backing.
One of the last thing the industry needs is more OS's flooding the scene.

And no offence to the makers of Ubuntu, but Google is a much bigger name with a lot more followers.

With that said, the Ubuntu OS, does look really cool and fun, and time will tell just how usable it is.

PogMoThoin

The people who run Ubuntu don't look for hardware with it pre-installed. I'll consider changing when it's available. Being able to carry my desktop OS with me interests me, I'd drop Android in a heartbeat.

Sonics2k

PogMoThoin wrote: »

The people who run Ubuntu don't look for hardware with it pre-installed. I'll consider changing when it's available. Being able to carry my desktop OS with me interests me, I'd drop Android in a heartbeat.

That's partially what I was getting at.

Ubuntu users tend to be the more hardcore types, those who already have Linux as their main OS and are more comfortable with coding etc.

For the average person on the street, or even those with a more casual approach to open source systems, then android is still going to be favourite for the time being.

HARDWARE backing is always going to be linked to the most common OS.

ongarite

No, its going to be DOA in my opinion.
The name means nothing outside the hardcore PC fan who likes to play with the Ubuntu release every 6 months.
It doesn't have a hardware or mobile network backer and they aren't expecting to have a phone onto the market until early 2014.
That is an eternity in phone terms; who knows what advances iOS, Android & WP will have in that time.

Well why are Canonical doing this? They realise that the traditional desktop market is dying a rapid death and have to try and monetize their platform somehow. I can't see it working and I can't see why a developer should develop and release apps for an ecosystem with a tiny tiny market share. An OS with no successful third party app ecosystem is a dead ecosystem..

Excellent Verge article on its many problems:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/3/3831012/the-ubuntu-phone-has-a-speed-problem-and-im-not-talking-about-lag

projectgtr

No not yet, I'll definitely be giving it a go on my nexus but android has come so far since it launched, it will take this new os a similar amount of time to get up to speed. I wonder how it will be packaged.

kenyard

agreed with the above. its going to probably be messy.
android is based on the linux kernel though isnt it?, so i can see this having the same one, meaning its going to get up to speed, or already be up to speed in my opinion. everything is there, just the interface will be tweaked.

i definately will be checking this out. especially if its mountable and useable as a desktop. seems like a great idea being able to go to a mates house and have your pc with bookmarks etc with you so you can login to facebook etc without having to remember to logout, since you are doing it on your own hardware.

when the s3 originally came out within 2 weeks someone had the desktop version of ubuntu running on it just FYI. so a slimmed down version should definately run fairly easily and well i predict.
i will be dualbooting this when its possible to do so. time to keep an eye on xda again

PogMoThoin

The original idea was that you install Ubuntu on Android and could switch back and forward between the two

kenyard

so its just an interface??
as in could you install it on an s3, or do you need a phone running pure android?

PogMoThoin

kenyard wrote: »

so its just an interface??
as in could you install it on an s3, or do you need a phone running pure android?

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android

Sonics2k

kenyard wrote: »

so its just an interface??
as in could you install it on an s3, or do you need a phone running pure android?

You can/will be able to, yes.

Both systems are Linux based as you know, so getting one system to run on another is quite simple really.

Ubuntu have done a great job in getting it onto a mobile, at the moment is very large as you can see in the videos.

Maybe poke around xda to see if they have a version fully compatible with the s3, I've only seen it on the nexus 4, so I'm not sure if it needs to be slightly different.

syklops

However some think it hasn't got a chance. There are concerns how far behind they are in the app market

I can't help wondering if the reason that person thinks Ubuntu on phones wont work is because he doesn't like Mark Shuttleworth. Many people don't.

Like or dislike Ubuntu, it brought people to Linux who never would have thought of it before. Ubuntu's community based QA is excellent. IMO far superior to Fedora's(and I'm a Fedora user).

Concerns over its App market being behind Android are a bit unfounded, as it already has the Apt repositories, many of the applications on there could be ported to the mobile platform, reasonably easily.

If a ubuntu phone was on the market, I would definitely get one.

syklops

The name means nothing outside the hardcore PC fan who likes to play with the Ubuntu release every 6 months.

Android didnt mean anything to anyone until it appeared on phones on shelves in phone shops. Coca-cola didn't mean anything to anyone until people started drinking it. Things change.

wandatowell

Is it too much to wish for access to the Play Store from a Unbuntu phone???

I think so.

Im liking the idea of using my phone as my PC. Interesting idea.

ongarite

syklops wrote: »

Android didnt mean anything to anyone until it appeared on phones on shelves in phone shops. Coca-cola didn't mean anything to anyone until people started drinking it. Things change.

Disagree with that. Ubuntu has been out for nearly 8 years since inception and its still incredibly niche, accounting for less than 1% of all internet traffic.

Android has been out for 5-6 years and fluctuates at 50% market share in smartphones.
This market is rapidly maturing into a two horse market, very similar to the desktop market in the 90s with no space for a new entrant to succeed.
RIM's market share is shrinking quarter on quarter and MS share has fallen since they launched WP7/8.

I think its great that they are trying this but without a big handset maker backing it and one of the US cell networks too, it will be as niche as it is on PCs.

OctavarIan

No, it doesn't stand a chance at threatening Android imo. It's coming seriously late to the party in 2014 and Ubuntu have done nothing to show that they can catch up. Not sure what they offer vendors that's different from Android either.

They couldn't crack the desktop market which was and is completely stagnant. I just can't see them ever getting the momentum to catch up with Apple, Google or even Microsoft. They'll be in a tiny tiny niche along with Blackberry.

Sonics2k

syklops wrote: »

Android didnt mean anything to anyone until it appeared on phones on shelves in phone shops. Coca-cola didn't mean anything to anyone until people started drinking it. Things change.

Difference being that everyone knows Google, and once or for out that Android was made by Google it became a lot easier to sell and market.

Atomic Pineapple

Looks interesting and will be nice to play with but it's way too late to the game, Microsoft have already shown how late comers have their work cut out to to take even a small share.

kenyard

yup it will just be a gimmicky usefful thing.
wont dominate anything, but intrests me. same as what they have in the pc os market. i dont think they want anything more.

why would any phone ship with their os as default. android and ubuntu are both free, people are more used to android. so suppliers will just make phones with android. they dont have the purchasing power then to force their way into the markets like windows phones have e.g buying out nokia. even if it is better, it would be 2 years before the market would recognise that fact even remotely, and then the OS is being built towards high end phones it seems, so dual core upwards to give the functionality of a pc...
niche market it is. meaning goodluck with app developement etc.. i cant see why playstore apps wouldnt play on it.
secondly as has been pointed out, ubuntu already has a huge database of apps, games etc. they just would have to be adjusted to be playable on a mobile device.

Idleater

Sonics2k wrote: »

That's partially what I was getting at.

Ubuntu users tend to be the more hardcore types, those who already have Linux as their main OS and are more comfortable with coding etc.

With the greatest of respect to Ubuntu, it's not even a hardcore Linux, it's a close relation to macos in that its installation premis is click next next next to install Linux on your computer. Wireless works out of the box :-)
Hardcore means recompiling kernels etc and pulling out your hair to get a mouse to work :-D

Personally I like the idea of being able to install Linux on a phone but a real win would be for it to be compatible with the existing apps and appstore.

_Kaiser_

Looks interesting, as someone who has never really played with Linux much (surprisingly given my jobs over the years).

I'm sure the interface swyping etc will be copied by existing Android ROMs before too long (I like the top menu status/settings layout) but their homescreen is far far too cluttered I think from looking at the first video. It also seems to stutter/lag at a few points in the video, though I'm sure this will be ironed out with optimisation/patching.. assuming it gets that far!

I myself have a Galaxy Note 2 with Launcher 7 on it as I like the clean interface it offers with easy to see/use tiles etc (as opposed to maybe a dozen tiny little icons) but it still has the benefit of having all the regular Android apps and customisation options under it rather than the cut down "you'll take what we give you and like it" approach from real WP7/8 devices

What I'd like is a proper desktop sync solution though that would give me notifications, allow me to respond to texts, emails, make calls using the laptop's speakers and microphone etc. I know you can do all these things already but with varying success depending on what apps you're using (most seem to go for web browser interfaces which I don't like myself).

Yea WP8 is supposed to give you this with Win 8 I gather, but WP8 is the same locked down, stripped out limited platform its predecessor was/is, and as for Win 8 itself ... the Metro/Modern layout shoved on top of the cut down Desktop just isn't worth the grief (I tried it for a month with Start8 and while it worked, little annoyances just added up to where I'm back on Win 7)

TL;DR: Give me a Android environment with a proper Windows desktop app

Zascar

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

TL;DR: Give me a Android environment with a proper Windows desktop app

That would be fantastic..

syklops

Sonics2k wrote: »

Difference being that everyone knows Google, and once or for out that Android was made by Google it became a lot easier to sell and market.

Does the average Joe on the street know that Android is made by Google? I don't think so.

The_B_Man

I read a few months back that some android stuff was to be integrated with the new Ubuntu kernal, making it capable of running APKs.

Surely that means u can install all android apps on this ubuntu phone too?

The Play store is also just an APK so once u have a gmail address, then this should be able to get access to all android apps.

Ste-

The_B_Man wrote: »

The Play store is also just an APK so once u have a gmail address, then this should be able to get access to all android apps.

Isn't it also linked to google libraries via the android system tho ?
I.e. you can't just install it on a playbook via the apk.

The_B_Man

well funnily enough, i installed the play store on me sisters kindle fire 2 there the other day. I have a playbook meself so also keep up to date on things with that.

There is 3 APKs involved with installing Google Play anyway. Google Services Framework.apk, vending.apk and Google Play Store.apk
You have to install the Services Framework APK, then move the vending.apk to /system/app, and install that from there. After that, u should have the old android market. Log into that, and let it setup ur device, then you just install the other APK to update to the latest play store and thats pretty much it.

Guide here:
http://www.androidauthority.com/kindle-fire-hd-7-inch-install-google-play-store-123353/


For putting it on the playbook, I think /system/app is read only so u cant move vending.apk there, unless u have ur playbook rooted.

The Corinthian

Seriously, whenever I hear someone rebut a criticism of Ubuntu, or Linux in general, by giving a hack on how to get around the issue I cry a little on the inside. What many Tux-fetishists seem to forget is that the vast majority of people have neither the aptitude, nor interest, to hack their phone - most Android users don't even know what an APK is, let alone know what to do with one. And Android users are considered the more technically competent of smartphone users amongst the main OS's.

If you have to hack, or employ a workaround, or put any technical effort into a product to make it work as you want it, you've just lost 98.4% of your market. Full stop.

I honestly cannot understand how anyone could be so optimistic about this. We have well over a decade of Linux experience on the market now - which for years we were told was going to overtake Windoze, and didn't, still only accounting for only just over 1% of the Worldwide desktop/laptop market. So can people be so deluded to think that this same OS model, entering the market late in the day, with little or no ecosystem supporting it, is going to be a game changer?

It's not; you'll see some uptake from the hardcore techies out there, especially those who already use Ubuntu on their desk and laptops, but that's it. There, it may well carve a loyal niche in the market, as it has in the desktop market, but that's it.

This is the thing with the Linux market; it's primarily a techie product, developed by techies, for techies. While it has slowly improved over the years, it's still principally orientated twoards that group - muggles have always been an afterthought, at best. And unfortunately, if you want to crack the market, muggels are the ones you need to win over.

And this won't.

c_man

kenyard wrote: »

secondly as has been pointed out, ubuntu already has a huge database of apps, games etc. they just would have to be adjusted to be playable on a mobile device.

You make it sound so easy :P

Telchak

The_B_Man wrote: »

I read a few months back that some android stuff was to be integrated with the new Ubuntu kernal, making it capable of running APKs.

Not exactly (as far as I understood). The changes that Google made to the Linux kernel will be integrated into Linux, meaning Google will be using newer versions of the kernel in new Android versions instead of continuing to develop their own fork. From the kernel up though, Ubuntu and Android are completely different operating systems. Some sort of emulation (or a compatibility layer, like WINE) would be needed to let Ubuntu run APK's. I'm sure that will happen at some point.