2013...is it the year to buy?

D3PO

Skr4wny wrote: »

We pay 750 a month rent which is dead money, the mortgage would be cheaper by 150-250 depending on the term.

Firstly thats the kind of rediculous mindset that caused half this issue. Rent is not dead money rent is paying for a service namely accomadation.

Secondly when you factor in property tax, house insurance, life assurance and all the lost interest from the money you no longer have on deposit you will probably find that 150 - 250 is a lot less.

good luck to you buying but dont for one second think rend is dead money its a ludacris thing to say. FWIW Im a home owner and not just saying this as a renter.

goz83

D3PO wrote: »

Firstly thats the kind of rediculous mindset that caused half this issue. Rent is not dead money rent is paying for a service namely accomadation.

Secondly when you factor in property tax, house insurance, life assurance and all the lost interest from the money you no longer have on deposit you will probably find that 150 - 250 is a lot less.

good luck to you buying but dont for one second think rend is dead money its a ludacris thing to say. FWIW Im a home owner and not just saying this as a renter.

TBF, and coming from a culture of owning ones home, you can rent for 30, 40, 50+ years and have nothing to show for it. You're usually subject to landlord checking in and you can't really make it your own if you're renting. Then there's always the chance the owner might want to sell. There tends to be more price fluctuation when renting in Ireland. Your rent could be €900 for a 3 bed in Dublin and then a few years later, it shoots up to €1300 (this is based on a rented house attached to my house).

If someone is planning to settle and the price of rent is going to be in the same price bracket as purchasing, it only makes sense (imo) to purchase. That way, you don't need permisission to change the colour of the bedroom wall.

D3PO

goz83 wrote: »

TBF, and coming from a culture of owning ones home, you can rent for 30, 40, 50+ years and have nothing to show for it. You're usually subject to landlord checking in and you can't really make it your own if you're renting. Then there's always the chance the owner might want to sell. There tends to be more price fluctuation when renting in Ireland. Your rent could be €900 for a 3 bed in Dublin and then a few years later, it shoots up to €1300 (this is based on a rented house attached to my house).

If someone is planning to settle and the price of rent is going to be in the same price bracket as purchasing, it only makes sense (imo) to purchase. That way, you don't need permisission to change the colour of the bedroom wall.

I never said renting is desirable (it isnt to me anyway) but the rent is dead money line is the biggest load of ****e that can be peddaled around. You pay money you get a service.

goz83

D3PO wrote: »

I never said renting is desirable (it isnt to me anyway) but the rent is dead money line is the biggest load of ****e that can be peddaled around. You pay money you get a service.

I made no accusation of you trying to make it look desireable. I agree with the "paying for a service" statement fully. However, in the OPs case, I have to agree that it would be dead money to continue renting, as he intends on buying a property where the rent figure will pretty much equal the mortgage figure + taxes and insurance etc on a monthly basis.

Mr.Wemmick

goz83 wrote: »

TBF, and coming from a culture of owning ones home, you can rent for 30, 40, 50+ years and have nothing to show for it. You're usually subject to landlord checking in and you can't really make it your own if you're renting. Then there's always the chance the owner might want to sell. There tends to be more price fluctuation when renting in Ireland. Your rent could be €900 for a 3 bed in Dublin and then a few years later, it shoots up to €1300 (this is based on a rented house attached to my house).

If someone is planning to settle and the price of rent is going to be in the same price bracket as purchasing, it only makes sense (imo) to purchase. That way, you don't need permisission to change the colour of the bedroom wall.

Don't agree with this at all. At the moment I am renting a so-called good looking new celtic tiger house that many rushed to buy. These houses are beset with difficulties as they have far too many internal problems. My landlord has forked out a wad of money to fix drains, poor pipe work, heating issues all down to the fact that they have been built too quickly and to a poor standard. I feel sorry for anyone who has bought a property like this and found themselves not only in negative equity, but burdened with the heafty cost of the need for constant fixes and repairs. I had a good chat with the plumber who had to come out to the house, yet again, before Christmas, and he despairs at the poor standard and shoddy work carried out in these houses.. but, he said, it is quite common.

Only recently, the fire in a newly built house in South Dublin has brought a warning from building experts to say that too many poorly built boom-time houses/apartments are fire traps. Dead money, you say? It's all rather relative, is it not?

So, to buy an over priced property, owe the bank lots of money and to have the responsibility of a poorly built house on your hands for a very long time that will eat into your spare funds is a recipe for disaster, in my book. I would rather the cheaper alternative: rent, and have the flexibility to move if my job does and put up with the stress-free colour of the bedroom wall.

I will possibly buy in a few years but an older, more solid built house that I can do up.. and, as the dust has not settled from the initial crash in Ireland, nothing is clear or certain, and I think there's worse to come this year.

If anyone is intent on buying soon, it has been written previously on this forum, and it's sound advice: get good surveys/inspections done and not just by an engineer to suit the bank, but also by some knowledgeable/reputable builders, plumbers, specialists etc. Know exactly what you're buying and what you're getting yourself into.. I can't help thinking that the rush to buy before Christmas, because of the MIR, will have seen many people make some huge mistakes with property.

goz83

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Don't agree with this at all. At the moment I am renting a so-called good looking new celtic tiger house that many rushed to buy. These houses are beset with difficulties as they have far too many internal problems. My landlord has forked out a wad of money to fix drains, poor pipe work, heating issues all down to the fact that they have been built too quickly and to a poor standard. I feel sorry for anyone who has bought a property like this and found themselves not only in negative equity, but burdened with the heafty cost of the need for constant fixes and repairs. I had a good chat with the plumber who had to come out to the house, yet again, before Christmas, and he despairs at the poor standard and shoddy work carried out in these houses.. but, he said, it is quite common.

Only recently, the fire in a newly built house in South Dublin has brought a warning from building experts to say that too many poorly built boom-time houses/apartments are fire traps. Dead money, you say? It's all rather relative, is it not?

So, to buy an over priced property, owe the bank lots of money and to have the responsibility of a poorly built house on your hands for a very long time that will eat into your spare funds is a recipe for disaster, in my book. I would rather the cheaper alternative: rent, and have the flexibility to move if my job does and put up with the stress-free colour of the bedroom wall.

I will possibly buy in a few years but an older, more solid built house that I can do up.. and, as the dust has not settled from the initial crash in Ireland, nothing is clear or certain, and I think there's worse to come this year.

If anyone is intent on buying soon, it has been written previously on this forum, and it's sound advice: get good surveys/inspections done and not just by an engineer to suit the bank, but also by some knowledgeable/reputable builders, plumbers, specialists etc. Know exactly what you're buying and what you're getting yourself into.. I can't help thinking that the rush to buy before Christmas, because of the MIR, will have seen many people make some huge mistakes with property.

You say you don't agree with my statement at all and then go on to say you will possibly buy in a few years. Making tonnes of sense there. First of all, I was speaking about the OPs case, rather than making a blanket statement. The OP seems to be taking his time and would appear (though I can't be certain) to be looking in older areas. D7 is fairly built up and hasn't seen a great deal of new development compared to other Dublin areas.

I wouldn't touch a new build unless I had supervised the building myself and had trusted builders to do the work. Older houses is the way to go, which is one of the reasons i bought my house from my dad. I've lived here basically my whole life and know every bent nail in the place....i planted a few myself

It goes without saying that if you don't get a property (old, or new) fully checked out, then you deserve whatever else comes with it. Sold as seen. There are very few exceptions to this rule.

You may be renting, but as you say, you're living in a property beset with problems. If renting is so flexible, I question why you're there at all. I wouldn't want to be wasting so much of my time talking to maintenance people about someone elses problems.

Mr.Wemmick

goz83 wrote: »

You say you don't agree with my statement at all and then go on to say you will possibly buy in a few years. Making tonnes of sense there

You may be renting, but as you say, you're living in a property beset with problems. If renting is so flexible, I question why you're there at all. I wouldn't want to be wasting so much of my time talking to maintenance people about someone elses problems.

I don't agree with buying now, 2013, as stated in the title of this thread.

So, no, I don't agree with you.. I have also gone on to say that I will buy when the dust has settled, in a few years.. but now, considering nothing is clear for 2013, and the housing market is obviously not out from under the economic downturn, it is by far, without question, cheaper to rent than to buy a house - a house you will be able to buy for 20/30,000 cheaper in a couple years.

I am renting a house beset with difficulties so I should move just because I happen to have flexibility! What? Are you deliberately being facetious? Last time I checked you don't do a survey for rented properties.. and why on earth would I move, only to find the next house the exact same. This house happens to come with a decent on-the-ball respectful landlord and who promptly fixes what ever needs to be fixed.. and, seeing the problems he is having, it is an eye opener, to say the least.

goz83

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

I don't agree with buying now, 2013, as stated in the title of this thread.

So, no, I don't agree with you.. I have also gone on to say that I will buy when the dust has settled, in a few years.. but now, considering nothing is clear for 2013, and the housing market is obviously not out from under the economic downturn, it is by far, without question, cheaper to rent than to buy a house - a house you will be able to buy for 20/30,000 cheaper in a couple years.

I am renting a house beset with difficulties so I should move just because I happen to have flexibility! What? Are you deliberately being facetious? Last time I checked you don't do a survey for rented properties.. and why on earth would I move, only to find the next house the exact same. This house happens to come with a decent on-the-ball respectful landlord and who promptly fixes what ever needs to be fixed.. and, seeing the problems he is having, it is an eye opener, to say the least.

You quoted my post, which is what you were replying to...not the thread title. Neither my post, or yours mentions anything about 2013. It is speculative to say that houses will be 20/30k cheaper in a couple of years, especially when you make no refenrence to the type of house you are talking about and the current price range. So, to keep to the point, I have been speaking about the types of house the OP is looking at, in the region of 150k. I can't say for sure that they won't drop by another 30k, but I highly, highly doubt it.

I really couldn't care if your landlord serves you breakfast in bed with a kiss on the cheek every morning. You're paying the rent after all, but you still have to waste time, while work is being carried out on the property of many difficulties, which is your choice of course. Sure, you might move and find problems with another rented property, but it sounds like you'd be hard pushed to find one with more problems. I didn't say you should move...I questioned why you were there at all, because I know I wouldn't live in a rented property with frequent needs for maintenance people.

I think you're forgetting that the OP also mentioned that the mortgage will be cheaper than his current rent, so that blows another blanket statement out of the water (water possibly leaking from your bathroom)

Granted, we don't know the quality of the property he is renting, or the exact properties he is seeking to buy, but at €750pm rent, I can't imagine it being 5 stars.

Mr.Wemmick

goz83 wrote: »

You quoted my post, which is what you were replying to...not the thread title. Neither my post, or yours mentions anything about 2013. It is speculative to say that houses will be 20/30k cheaper in a couple of years, especially when you make no refenrence to the type of house you are talking about and the current price range. So, to keep to the point, I have been speaking about the types of house the OP is looking at, in the region of 150k. I can't say for sure that they won't drop by another 30k, but I highly, highly doubt it.

I really couldn't care if your landlord serves you breakfast in bed with a kiss on the cheek every morning. You're paying the rent after all, but you still have to waste time, while work is being carried out on the property of many difficulties, which is your choice of course. Sure, you might move and find problems with another rented property, but it sounds like you'd be hard pushed to find one with more problems. I didn't say you should move...I questioned why you were there at all, because I know I wouldn't live in a rented property with frequent needs for maintenance people.

I think you're forgetting that the OP also mentioned that the mortgage will be cheaper than his current rent, so that blows another blanket statement out of the water (water possibly leaking from your bathroom)

Granted, we don't know the quality of the property he is renting, or the exact properties he is seeking to buy, but at €750pm rent, I can't imagine it being 5 stars.

Your post is full of guess work and much drama - needs a lol at the end. My time is not wasted at all in my rented undamaged property as most work has been done promptly and when I am away. Little inconvenience and no extra cost to me.

Methinks, I best not answer any more of your meandering posts for fear, at the rate you're going, you'll have me renting an overpriced shack at the end of a muddy paddock with 3 walls and a plastic sheet for a roof..

Funnily enough, I quoted your post in relation to the whole thread.. but as you're flying solo here, and are full of speculation yourself, off you go and fill yer boots.

goz83

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Your post is full of guess work and much drama - needs a lol at the end. My time is not wasted at all in my rented undamaged property as most work has been done promptly and when I am away. Little inconvenience and no extra cost to me.

Methinks, I best not answer any more of your meandering posts for fear, at the rate you're going, you'll have me renting an overpriced shack at the end of a muddy paddock with 3 walls and a plastic sheet for a roof..

Funnily enough, I quoted your post in relation to the whole thread.. but as you're flying solo here, and are full of speculation yourself, off you go and fill yer boots.

I'm not a landlord, but it's good that you finally mentioned that the work is carried out when you're out. It did take a while for you to say that. So how do those conversations happen between you and the plumber?

And you answered my "meandering" post despite saying you "best not".

Curious that you say my posts are full of guess work, when infact, I repeatedly referred back to the relevant posts of the OP and your posts are the ones with guess work. At least I pointed out where I was making educated guesses, based on the OP posts.

If the above is your way of "meandering" out of the thread without clarifying, or backing up any of what you've said, then you do what's best for you and be off with ye. I leave you with the following advice: when you quote a post and intend to speak about details of the OP, then say so. The thing your looking at now is called a monitor/screen. It does not have the ability to transfer your unwritten thoughts to me.

Theboinkmaster

D3PO wrote: »

Firstly thats the kind of rediculous mindset that caused half this issue. Rent is not dead money rent is paying for a service namely accomadation.

Secondly when you factor in property tax, house insurance, life assurance and all the lost interest from the money you no longer have on deposit you will probably find that 150 - 250 is a lot less.

good luck to you buying but dont for one second think rend is dead money its a ludacris thing to say. FWIW Im a home owner and not just saying this as a renter.

Also factor in capital depreciation which can be significant in a collapsing market.

Theboinkmaster

goz83 wrote: »

It is speculative to say that houses will be 20/30k cheaper in a couple of years, especially when you make no refenrence to the type of house you are talking about and the current price range. So, to keep to the point, I have been speaking about the types of house the OP is looking at, in the region of 150k. I can't say for sure that they won't drop by another 30k, but I highly, highly doubt it.

I disagree i think it's entirely possible it could drop that much.

Standard Toaster

Property prices could drop by another 20pc (independent.ie)

HOUSE prices could decline by another 20pc from their current levels while variable rates are due to go up again, an international agency has warned.
And ongoing rises in mortgage arrears mean borrowers in this country are effectively on strike, credit ratings agency Fitch said.
But despite this, there is likely to be a moderate rise in lending to first-time buyers this year.
The agency, in a report on the global mortgage market, said property prices here could fall as much as 20pc, but it has assumed a 10pc decrease.
Since the bursting of the property bubble, prices have dropped by 50pc, to take the average value to €160,000.
Another 20pc fall would take the average price nationally to €128,000.

Spindle

goz83 wrote: »

TBF, and coming from a culture of owning ones home, you can rent for 30, 40, 50+ years and have nothing to show for it. You're usually subject to landlord checking in and you can't really make it your own if you're renting. Then there's always the chance the owner might want to sell. There tends to be more price fluctuation when renting in Ireland. Your rent could be €900 for a 3 bed in Dublin and then a few years later, it shoots up to €1300 (this is based on a rented house attached to my house).

If someone is planning to settle and the price of rent is going to be in the same price bracket as purchasing, it only makes sense (imo) to purchase. That way, you don't need permisission to change the colour of the bedroom wall.

I agree with a lot of your points but about rent going up. Mortgage interest rates can go up a lot as well, the only problem is that you are stuck with your mortgage, with renting you can move to a cheaper place.

goz83

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I disagree i think it's entirely possible it could drop that much.

I didn't say it wasn't possible, if you re-read my post, I just said I doubt they would and was speaking in the price category the OP was speaking about, which is 150k. You atleast need to specify th price band if you're talking about money. I believe a property in the 300k band could drop by 20-30k this year, but I don't think a price band of 150k will drop by that much. 10-15k at most (imo). It's safer to talk about percentages and areas when speculating on drops or increases in the market.

Speaking about the OPs price band, I believe it's entirel possible for him to knock 15k off the asking price. He will spend 9k on rent in one year if I rememeber correctly (assuming rent of €750pm). So, that's a further saving, off-setting any realistic decline in the property price.

Skr4wny

goz83 wrote: »

You say you don't agree with my statement at all and then go on to say you will possibly buy in a few years. Making tonnes of sense there. First of all, I was speaking about the OPs case, rather than making a blanket statement. The OP seems to be taking his time and would appear (though I can't be certain) to be looking in older areas. D7 is fairly built up and hasn't seen a great deal of new development compared to other Dublin areas.

I wouldn't touch a new build unless I had supervised the building myself and had trusted builders to do the work. Older houses is the way to go, which is one of the reasons i bought my house from my dad. I've lived here basically my whole life and know every bent nail in the place....i planted a few myself

It goes without saying that if you don't get a property (old, or new) fully checked out, then you deserve whatever else comes with it. Sold as seen. There are very few exceptions to this rule.

You may be renting, but as you say, you're living in a property beset with problems. If renting is so flexible, I question why you're there at all. I wouldn't want to be wasting so much of my time talking to maintenance people about someone elses problems.

OP again

Definitely would not be going near one of the newer timber frame houses as I'm aware of the many issues and having worked in construction during the summers when I was in college years ago I have helped put some of them up. Ath the time even the more experienced guys working on the sites were laughing about how none of them would still be standing in 50 years.

goz83

Thanks for clearing that up OP. I assumed you'd be looking at older properties, which reinforces alot of what I posted. Keep us updated on your progress and if you see any fluctuations in the properties you have your eye on.

Villa05

Rents will not rise substantially. We are still pretty much in a deflationary environment, Any inflationary pressure is coming from State Services. There may be increases in some prime areas in Dublin, Galway and Cork, but this does not effect the average person,

Mortgage repayments will increase substantially overtime The current base rate is 0.75% which is an emergency rate. Normal Rates would be between 4 to 6% add in the Banks Markup and you have normal rates at 8 to 10%.

Bear in mind that the banks have huge losses not yet realised on there books and this could add another 2 to 3% on to their mortgage rates.

The base rate is decided by Frankfurt, Now imagine a situation where there is rampant inflation in Germany and Ireland remains in a deflationary/Stagnant environment. (This is a scenario that is highly likely) Frankfurt increases the base rate substantially to cool their inflation. Irish borrowers are crucified.


Anyone buys with a mortgage could get wiped out in my opinion

Diarmuid

Skr4wny wrote: »

We pay 750 a month rent which is dead money, the mortgage would be cheaper by 150-250 depending on the term.

:mad:
Christ. 5 years into one of the biggest property crashes every and we are still hearing this sh1t. There's no hope for the Irish and their mindset to property.

D3PO

Villa05 wrote: »

Rents will not rise substantially. We are still pretty much in a deflationary environment, Any inflationary pressure is coming from State Services. There may be increases in some prime areas in Dublin, Galway and Cork, but this does not effect the average person,

Mortgage repayments will increase substantially overtime The current base rate is 0.75% which is an emergency rate. Normal Rates would be between 4 to 6% add in the Banks Markup and you have normal rates at 8 to 10%.

Bear in mind that the banks have huge losses not yet realised on there books and this could add another 2 to 3% on to their mortgage rates.

The base rate is decided by Frankfurt, Now imagine a situation where there is rampant inflation in Germany and Ireland remains in a deflationary/Stagnant environment. (This is a scenario that is highly likely) Frankfurt increases the base rate substantially to cool their inflation. Irish borrowers are crucified.


Anyone buys with a mortgage could get wiped out in my opinion

Have to totally disagree with you here. Firstly were not in a deflationary environment. Inflation has been running art a simdge over 2% for the past 18 months.

Secondly as you have pointed out Cork, Dublin , Galway different market than rest of the country regarding rents. You say this isnt the average person but the majority of people are covered in those markets so yes actually that is the average person.

Thirdly its not true to make out that the ECB rate is solely linked to Germany. Its linked to the overall Eurozone however as Germany is one of the largest contributors its economy has a larger overall impact.

Fourthly everybody acknowledged current ECB rates are way below average however they will go nowhere near normal levels until the Eurozone recovers significantly. To recover significantly the average person is going to by relation find themselves in a better financial position to deal with such increases.

kennyb3

D3PO wrote: »

Fourthly everybody acknowledged current ECB rates are way below average however they will go nowhere near normal levels until the Eurozone recovers significantly. To recover significantly the average person is going to by relation find themselves in a better financial position to deal with such increases.

I liked your post up to that bit - you can have inflation without increasing wages. Taxes will likely have increased more in the interim too - i don't see any give away budgets to reverse same. I really don't see that people within the eurozone (particularly ireland) will be in a better position.

Also a 1% rise in interest rates will cost the vast majority of mortgage holders a lot more than a 5% increase in wages.

Theboinkmaster

D3PO wrote: »

Have to totally disagree with you here. Firstly were not in a deflationary environment. Inflation has been running art a simdge over 2% for the past 18 months.

Secondly as you have pointed out Cork, Dublin , Galway different market than rest of the country regarding rents. You say this isnt the average person but the majority of people are covered in those markets so yes actually that is the average person.

Thirdly its not true to make out that the ECB rate is solely linked to Germany. Its linked to the overall Eurozone however as Germany is one of the largest contributors its economy has a larger overall impact.

Fourthly everybody acknowledged current ECB rates are way below average however they will go nowhere near normal levels until the Eurozone recovers significantly. To recover significantly the average person is going to by relation find themselves in a better financial position to deal with such increases.

Yes but his point is still valid - EU countries could recover quicker than us thus ECB increases rate but this doesn't match Ireland's inflation rate.

This is part of the reason we're in this mess - ECB rates were too low relative to our inflation during the boom. So it's possible now the opposite will happen.

desertcircus

The market is unlikely to go anywhere in a hurry as long as potential buyers have difficulty getting mortgages. About half the household in the country would currently struggle to get approved for a 90% mortgage of 112,500 on a 125k house, but vast numbers of houses are still being advertised as though this isn't a concern. There simply aren't enough cash buyers to make up the difference, and once the cash market dries up (it won't disappear, but will shrink hugely) sellers are going to be left with very tightly constrained buyers. If the average mortgage is four times salary, and if median salaries are thirty thousand a year, then either average prices fall to 120k or houses go unsold.

fricatus

desertcircus wrote: »

If the average mortgage is four times salary, and if median salaries are thirty thousand a year, then either average prices fall to 120k or houses go unsold.

Your argument is logically sound, but you're completely discounting the second earner in a household. Surely this is a very important factor?

Even if the second earner is only on €20k and the bank only gives out double that, then the typical mortgage would be up around €160k. Then take into account that there are no mortgages over 90% LTV any more and you're looking at a price of €176 being attainable for a typical couple - or am I missing something?

desertcircus

fricatus wrote: »

Your argument is logically sound, but you're completely discounting the second earner in a household. Surely this is a very important factor?

Even if the second earner is only on €20k and the bank only gives out double that, then the typical mortgage would be up around €160k. Then take into account that there are no mortgages over 90% LTV any more and you're looking at a price of €176 being attainable for a typical couple - or am I missing something?

That could have some effect, but there are two factors mitigating against this: one, plenty of couples have only one person in employment, which reduces the effect, and two, I'm not at all sure that banks are allowing double the second salary. The impression I had was that it was realistically a max of 1x the additional salary, and it may not always be factored. It might have some effect, but even median household earnings don't look as though they support a great deal more than 120k as a mortgage.

Villa05

D3PO wrote: »

Have to totally disagree with you here. Firstly were not in a deflationary environment. Inflation has been running art a simdge over 2% for the past 18 months.

Secondly as you have pointed out Cork, Dublin , Galway different market than rest of the country regarding rents. You say this isnt the average person but the majority of people are covered in those markets so yes actually that is the average person.

Thirdly its not true to make out that the ECB rate is solely linked to Germany. Its linked to the overall Eurozone however as Germany is one of the largest contributors its economy has a larger overall impact.

Fourthly everybody acknowledged current ECB rates are way below average however they will go nowhere near normal levels until the Eurozone recovers significantly. To recover significantly the average person is going to by relation find themselves in a better financial position to deal with such increases.

We are in a deflationary environment if you take the state services like education, health, ESB, Gas out of the equation. You may have missed that in my original post e.g going out for a meal is a fraction of the cost it was in 2006.

I said certain areas of Bublin, Galway and Cork not average areas. Also rents in cities are driven by a large extent by students. The cost of third level education increasing, there will be less students and less disposable income to pay rent.

So we can have separate markets between our cities and the rest of the country. I'm sure we also can have separate markets in European Countries . So while some Countries (Germany, Holland) prosper, others (Ireland, Spain) suffer.
If its OK for Leitrim to become a basket case and Dublin to "stabilise", then surely its OK For Germany to be a powerhouse while Ireland returns to being a basket case

Interest Rates in the 00's were set for German Interests, not for Ireland's. Don't expect this to change or any sympathy. When we had the money we wasted it on property and bankrupted our country in the process.

You may also note how difficult it is to get a mortgage, The banks are picking off the more financially secure. Once a significant portion of this demographic have been tied to a 25 to 35 year contract with the bank, they can start fleecing them to make up for the looses elsewhere in their books (such as trackers and mortgage defaults).

D3PO

kennyb3 wrote: »

I liked your post up to that bit - you can have inflation without increasing wages. Taxes will likely have increased more in the interim too - i don't see any give away budgets to reverse same. I really don't see that people within the eurozone (particularly ireland) will be in a better position.

Also a 1% rise in interest rates will cost the vast majority of mortgage holders a lot more than a 5% increase in wages.

totally agree mate. I was in a rush out the door so didnt put a very detailed post together

D3PO

Villa05 wrote: »

We are in a deflationary environment if you take the state services like education, health, ESB, Gas out of the equation. You may have missed that in my original post e.g going out for a meal is a fraction of the cost it was in 2006.

.

I dont disagree but deflation / inflation is always measured against everything. Oil prices down aswell as are mortgages due to interest. However we are still in an inflationary environment as everything is used to measure inflation.

Skr4wny

Diarmuid wrote: »

:mad:
Christ. 5 years into one of the biggest property crashes every and we are still hearing this sh1t. There's no hope for the Irish and their mindset to property.

I will elaborate on my statement and ask that you bare in mind that I sat and looked on at the property boom without doing anything depsite having two parents harrassing me to buy "or it would be too late". I had actually resigned myself to never owning a house as they were too expensive and I didn't want this massive debt for life.

Now in the post celtic tiger era where I can spend what would've got me a shed back then and get a nice house I see renting as dead money. In the past I did not.

Villa05

D3PO wrote: »

I dont disagree but deflation / inflation is always measured against everything. Oil prices down aswell as are mortgages due to interest. However we are still in an inflationary environment as everything is used to measure inflation.

I see your point and to a certain extent the property market is controlled by the Government through NAMA, failure to deal with the mortgage arrears crisis, upward only rents etc. however the IMF are putting pressure on to resolve these issues. The Government is also under pressure to sell assets to pay down debt. Could this result in NAMA being pushed into selling off property.