Continuity IRA threat

Fratton Fred

SoulandForm wrote: »

Why?

Why not? Why should they campaign to stop British people joining the British army but not Irish people joining the Irish army?

SoulandForm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Whatever about the past, it certainly "does not continue to"!
You live in the past if you want, the rest of us have moved on.

Oh really- http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/

It continues to carry out vile acts in other lands.

SoulandForm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why not? Why should they campaign to stop British people joining the British army but not Irish people joining the Irish army?

Irish people you could say are British- they come from the British Isles dont they?

Also there is a big moral difference between IDF and the British Army in terms of their activities.

Fratton Fred

SoulandForm wrote: »

Irish people you could say are British- they come from the British Isles dont they?

Also there is a big moral difference between IDF and the British Army in terms of their activities.

Is there?

They both spend the majority of their overseas time on UN missions, except British politicians have the balls to let their soldiers actually do soldiering

SoulandForm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is there?

They both spend the majority of their overseas time on UN missions, except British politicians have the balls to let their soldiers actually do soldiering

The CIRA equally have the balls to let their soldiers do actual soldiering, should they be praised for that?

Fratton Fred

SoulandForm wrote: »

The CIRA equally have the balls to let their soldiers do actual soldiering, should they be praised for that?

Are you for real? There is nothing the CIRA do that could be construed to be soldiering.

Duzzer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are you for real? There is nothing the CIRA do that could be construed to be soldiering.

Why not?

Death and Taxes

SoulandForm wrote: »

The CIRA equally have the balls to let their soldiers do actual soldiering, should they be praised for that?

They are not soldiers, they are thugs, no less criminal than Martin Cahill or John Gilligan.

SoulandForm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

They are not soldiers, they are thugs, no less criminal than Martin Cahill or John Gilligan.

Its entirely possible that they do have an actual criminal under belly.

But than again so does the British Army-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/24/jailed-veteran-servicemen-outnumber-troops

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/one-in-10-prisoners-is-a-former-soldier-new-research-reveals-7944479.html

Duzzer

WileyCoyote wrote: »

They are not soldiers, they are thugs, no less criminal than Martin Cahill or John Gilligan.

How do you know they are thugs and criminals, have you got proof?

junder

You post two articules that are talking about ex soldiers suffering from post traumatic stress as comparable to the crimnal actions of a terroist group

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

You post two articules that are talking about ex soldiers suffering from post traumatic stress as comparable to the crimnal actions of a terroist group

Soldiers committing crimes against civilians in the home countries after they commit crimes in foreign countries. They ended up in prison- normal prison- not psychiatric hospitals. Most knew what joining the Army meant, if it destroyed their lives afterwards than who is to blame?

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

You post two articules that are talking about ex soldiers suffering from post traumatic stress as comparable to the crimnal actions of a terroist group

Would you describe the UVF as terrorists?

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

You post two articules that are talking about ex soldiers suffering from post traumatic stress as comparable to the crimnal actions of a terroist group

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/03/afghanistan.iraq

The wonderful rewards of Loyality. Think about Junder.

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

You post two articules that are talking about ex soldiers suffering from post traumatic stress as comparable to the crimnal actions of a terroist group

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cruel-Britannia-Secret-History-Torture/dp/1846273331

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/nov/23/cruel-britannia-ian-cobain-review

Do yourself a favour and buy this book. The British Army uses terror. Why they can not be called terrorists?

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Would you describe the UVF as terrorists?

No I would discribe them as boy scots. They are a proscribed, illegal group so yer they are a terroist group. But what does that have to with ex soldiers suffering PTSD and falling fall of the law primarily due to drink and drug problems?

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

No I would discribe them as boy scots. They are a proscribed, illegal group so yer they are a terroist group. But what does that have to with ex soldiers suffering PTSD and falling fall of the law primarily due to drink and drug problems?

It says something about the British Army and the caliber of your average Tom doesnt it? Most of these people were messed up before they entered into the Army. A normal, healthy person doesnt want to hurt or kill other people unless they really have too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/509908.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1516425/Ex-prisoners-make-better-Army-recruits-than-todays-teenagers.html

There is very little moral difference between the British Army and the UVF. Indeed didnt most of the early UVF learn the ropes so to speak in Britain's colonial wars?

Jelle1880

SoulandForm wrote: »

It says something about the British Army and the caliber of your average Tom doesnt it? Most of these people were messed up before they entered into the Army. A normal, healthy person doesnt want to hurt or kill other people unless they really have too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/509908.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1516425/Ex-prisoners-make-better-Army-recruits-than-todays-teenagers.html

There is very little moral difference between the British Army and the UVF. Indeed didnt most of the early UVF learn the ropes so to speak in Britain's colonial wars?

What about the Irish Defence Forces ?

You sure seem to hate the British Armed Forces a lot.

Newsflash: Not everyone joins an army to kill, rape and loot.
In fact, I would say that hardly anyone does so.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

It says something about the British Army and the caliber of your average Tom doesnt it? Most of these people were messed up before they entered into the Army. A normal, healthy person doesnt want to hurt or kill other people unless they really have too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/509908.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1516425/Ex-prisoners-make-better-Army-recruits-than-todays-teenagers.html

There is very little moral difference between the British Army and the UVF. Indeed didnt most of the early UVF learn the ropes so to speak in Britain's colonial wars?

It's not the UVF threatening Irish citzens over thier choice of career. Do you have anything to say about that other then Irish citzens should not be allowed to join the British army, not seeing much condemnation of this threat from you, just a desire to try and shift the focus

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

It's not the UVF threatening Irish citzens over thier choice of career. Do you have anything to say about that other then Irish citzens should not be allowed to join the British army, not seeing much condemnation of this threat from you, just a desire to try and shift the focus

The CIRA's threat is wrong. While most of these people could probably well be very dangerous individuals, people can change, and the CIRA murdering one of them will do no good to the world what so ever. However its important to place the CIRA's threat in context. The UVF has murdered more people from the Protestant community in Northern Ireland and Irish citizens than the CIRA have.

brandnewaward

i bet there will be gomorrah at this protest on saturday , and that it will be these barstool republicans that kicks it off

Mr Cumulonimbus

oscarBravo wrote: »

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy

True. That being the case, the British response to the 1916 Rising didn't have to be the execution of the Rising's leaders, did it?

Jelle1880

brandnewaward wrote: »

i bet there will be gomorrah at this protest on saturday , and that it will be these barstool republicans that kicks it off

Somehow I think the Gardai will handle it better than the PSNI.

Unless they let the protestors walk past the Player's Lounge :pac:

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

The CIRA's threat is wrong. While most of these people could probably well be very dangerous individuals, people can change, and the CIRA murdering one of them will do no good to the world what so ever. However its important to place the CIRA's threat in context. The UVF has murdered more people from the Protestant community in Northern Ireland and Irish citizens than the CIRA have.

The context is that an Irish republican terrorist group has issues a threat against citizens of the Republic of Ireland in the Republic of Ireland, this has nothing to do with the UVF

Hootanany

Winty wrote: »

Who is Michael Kiely, from Corbally, Limerick the mouth of the CIRA, is he a politician or affiliated to any party?

Sounds like a fake name used by a coward

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dissidents-issue-chilling-threat-to-irish-in-the-british-army-3343751.html

Shakes head.

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

The context is that an Irish republican terrorist group has issues a threat against citizens of the Republic of Ireland in the Republic of Ireland, this has nothing to do with the UVF

Yes it does. Why do you think people get involved in the CIRA?

Before a push is made to end British in Ireland rule I believe that both communities have at least to be partially united otherwise Britain will play the sectarian card and so insure that its rule continues. There are many people now probably looking at the current behaviour of the UVF now and thinking that the CIRA have the right idea. That is a tragedy and something that has to combated politically.

MadsL

SoulandForm wrote: »

The British Army uses terror. Why they can not be called terrorists?

Probably because of something called the Geneva Convention, the CIRA have never heard of it.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Yes it does. Why do you think people get involved in the CIRA?

Before a push is made to end British in Ireland rule I believe that both communities have at least to be partially united otherwise Britain will play the sectarian card and so insure that its rule continues. There are many people now probably looking at the current behaviour of the UVF now and thinking that the CIRA have the right idea. That is a tragedy and something that has to combated politically.

So dissident republicans are murdering catholic police officers and issuing threats against Irish citizens and planting bombs in predominately nationalist towns because of the UVF?

ktm

"The war is not over – it will only be over when every last British soldier is driven from our shores."

But the fact that the British army would gladly leave if CIRA/RIRA ceased to exist is somewhat lost on em.

sure joe

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Thugs who dress up like terrorists and threaten to kill people who dont do as they say...RSF/CIRA/RIRA/UVF/UDA etc etc etc
They represent nothing but their own blood lust and personal hunger for pqwer.

surely the lads and lassies joining the brit**** army are a lot nore likely to kill somebody than anybody from any of the organisations you mention and with a lot less motive, bar greed

Death and Taxes

Duzzer wrote: »

I thought you would have a certain amount of empathy for them considering you did some time yourself?

What the hell are you on about?

oscarBravo

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

True. That being the case, the British response to the 1916 Rising didn't have to be the execution of the Rising's leaders, did it?

Um. No, it didn't. It was a breathtakingly stupid move on the government's part. Government in doing-something-stupid shocker, film at eleven.

It doesn't retroactively justify the use of violence, though.

golfball37

By any standards or measurement the Easter Rising was an act of Terrorism. The people who took it upon themselves to wreak havoc on Dublin had little more support than the CIRA have now.

It just goes to show whoever writes the history calls the tune.

LordSutch

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Somehow I think the Gardai will handle it better than the PSNI.

Bigger water cannon?

intellectual dosser

HoggyRS wrote: »

Did you read what he said? "There will always be those who oppose it by whatever means necessary". He's not saying everyone will but there will be people who oppose it such as RSF. They're well aware they are a minority.

Do you expect all political groups to only cater to what the majority want? Thats not a realistic prospect.

In order to act on their beliefs, political parties need to gain a majority approval from the people, via a General Election.

So this man is well aware he is in a minority, but thinks he is justifying the killing of other human beings?

These guys need to get real, their war is over. Time to put all their efforts into Sinn Fein where they can try and accomplish their goals without ruining peoples lives through death and violence.

FTA69

At the end of the day British soliders are more likely to die crossing the road than they are to be killed by the CIRA, possibly the most incompetent armed organisation in Irish history.

Duzzer

WileyCoyote wrote: »

What the hell are you on about?

Post from you in another thread, see below:

"Cant agree with that at all, I have a criminal conviction, since getting out I have completed a Diploma in Politics and Government, a B.A. (Hons) in TCD, I now own my own business and am an employer, I am up to date with my taxes and involvent in several voluntary organizations, but according to you"

Death and Taxes

Duzzer wrote: »

Post from you in another thread, see below:

"Cant agree with that at all, I have a criminal conviction, since getting out I have completed a Diploma in Politics and Government, a B.A. (Hons) in TCD, I now own my own business and am an employer, I am up to date with my taxes and involvent in several voluntary organizations, but according to you"

I note you cut the quote short, nice editing!

And why would that lead me to empathise with any group of physcotic gansters? I don't empathise with Larry Murphy,John Gilligan,The Dundons,Rattser Rattigan etc , so why would I empathise with these shower?
Or are you of the opinion that once a person has broken the law once, then however remorseful, no matter what lengths they go to in order to rehabilitate their lives, they are always going to be the lowest of the low. Or maybe it was just a chance to get a cheap shot in at me!:mad:

Duzzer

WileyCoyote wrote: »

I note you cut the quote short, nice editing!

And why would that lead me to empathise with any group of physcotic gansters? I don't empathise with Larry Murphy,John Gilligan,The Dundons,Rattser Rattigan etc , so why would I empathise with these shower?
Or are you of the opinion that once a person has broken the law once, then however remorseful, no matter what lengths they go to in order to rehabilitate their lives, they are always going to be the lowest of the low. Or maybe it was just a chance to get a cheap shot in at me!:mad:

Only the first part of my quote was relevant. Anyway you seem to comparing the CIRA to mixture of criminals who have been convicted of non political crimes. Again can you outline what proof you have of criminal actions by those associated with the CIRA? Also I never said I think ex criminals are the lowest of the low its you who is suggesting this. I just thought you of all people might have some empathy with others that may have done some time.

Death and Taxes

Duzzer wrote: »

Only the first part of my quote was relevant. Anyway you seem to comparing the CIRA to mixture of criminals who have been convicted of non political crimes. Again can you outline what proof you have of criminal actions by those associated with the CIRA? Also I never said I think ex criminals are the lowest of the low its you who is suggesting this. I just thought you of all people might have some empathy with others that may have done some time.

Membership of the CIRA is a serious criminal offence in and of itself!
And here is a long catalogue of their campaign of murder,bombings, beatings,shootings,robberies etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army_actions


Enough said.

SoulandForm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Membership of the CIRA is a serious criminal offence in and of itself! Enough said.

Indeed but its one motivated by a misguided idealism and desire to serve and to sacrifice; which therefore makes it different from other crimes.

Death and Taxes

SoulandForm wrote: »

Indeed but its one motivated by a misguided idealism and desire to serve and to sacrifice; which therefore makes it different from other crimes.

I disagree on the claimed motivations, obviously.
It is different in no way other than it involves the promotion of or commission of acts of violence based on little other than hatred and pwer lust/greed!

SoulandForm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

I disagree on the claimed motivations, obviously.
It is different in no way other than it involves the promotion of or commission of acts of violence based on little other than hatred and pwer lust/greed!

Hatred possibly.

If you are motivated by power lust/greed it would make a lot more sense to join the Fianna Fail/Fine Gael, a common criminal gang or the indeed the British Army.

Duzzer

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Membership of the CIRA is a serious criminal offence in and of itself!
And here is a long catalogue of their campaign of murder,bombings, beatings,shootings,robberies etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army_actions


Enough said.

You are not reading my post properly. I said those associated with the CIRA. I didnt mention mebership anywhere.

Son Of A Vidic

I love this expression 'dissident', dissent to what?...Dissent to reality? Talk about missing the memo. Why anyone even gives these clowns the oxygen of publicity is beyond me. These clowns were sitting on the fence while the Provos were actually fighting a war. The war has now ended, the main combatants have lowered their guns and reached a settlement. Amazing how these fools have virtually done nothing against the Crown Forces. They where nowhere to be seen of course, when the Six Counties was one of the most heavily militarised regions in the world. They are nothing more than a shower of irrelevant and totally spineless idiots who are beyond being a joke. I always find it very amusing when you see the ages of the some guys convicted of 'dissident' activity. So many were toddlers when the war ended, they haven't a clue of what it was like in the bad old days.

nelly17

midlands paranormal researcher wrote: »

if these so called soldiers of ireland want to do something for this country......stop BUYING arms and give the money to the people of ireland..... sorry meant to say "our shores"
how much is to buy AK47s in bulk now,1. arms dearler 2. shipping 3. vat

eh you forgot Phil Hogans AK47 Levy

Death and Taxes

SoulandForm wrote: »

Hatred possibly.

If you are motivated by power lust/greed it would make a lot more sense to join the Fianna Fail/Fine Gael, a common criminal gang or the indeed the British Army.

I think we will always disagree on this, so rather drag the thread round in circles I will bow out, I have one view you have differing one, I disagree with it but respect your right to promulgate it in a peaceful manner.

FTA69

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I love this expression 'dissident', dissent to what?...Dissent to reality? Talk about missing the memo. Why anyone even gives these clowns the oxygen of publicity is beyond me. These clowns were sitting on the fence while the Provos were actually fighting a war. The war has now ended, the main combatants have lowered their guns and reached a settlement. Amazing how these fools have virtually done nothing against the Crown Forces. They where nowhere to be seen of course, when the Six Counties was one of the most heavily militarised regions in the world. They are nothing more than a shower of irrelevant and totally spineless idiots who are beyond being a joke. I always find it very amusing when you see the ages of the some guys convicted of 'dissident' activity. So many were toddlers when the war ended, they haven't a clue of what it was like in the bad old days.

The thing that irks me was the fact that the Provisional IRA campaign failed because they didn't have sufficient military strength and they had a minimal active support base in the south. In other words their struggle was largely divorced from working class people in the majority of the country. The likes of the CIRA are a pale shadow of what the Provisionals were, and have no coherent political agenda bar propaganda of the deed so to speak. In other words their entire agenda revolves around jumping out of the ditch every few months to shoot a cop or whatever, and doesn't concentrate on building an alternative to the status quo. Change in Ireland will only come about through a mass movement of Irish working people, not via (incompetent) clandestine armed groups that now just act as a conveyor belt to send people to jail in the name of outdated tactics and an outdated version of Republicanism.

SoulandForm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

I think we will always disagree on this, so rather drag the thread round in circles I will bow out, I have one view you have differing one, I disagree with it but respect your right to promulgate it in a peaceful manner.

Well I dont know anyone in the CIRA, and I presume you dont either, I have talked to a couple of people in RSF and outside of one of them I have to say that I wasnt at all impressed; bottom line is that we are both speculating as to their motivations. I just dont think your speculations are rational.

I have shown though how likely British soldiers are to be arrested for ordinary criminal offenses after they come out of the service- if you could show arrests for ordinary criminal offenses by CIRA and RSF members I would be very interested. I cant think of any.

HoggyRS

I don't know whether it was covered in the thread but the statement wasn't from RSF or CIRA as such it came from a split from that movement who previously called themselves Real Sinn Féin before going back to claiming to be RSF. They seem to be nearly completely Limerick based. Previous to the split, the Limerick branch of RSF had been notorious for causing embarressment to RSF, often putting forward right wing anti-immigrant motions forward at ard fhéis for a party that claims to be left wing.