Co-working space, viable biz?

Overthrow

Hi folks,
I've been thinking of looking in to setting up a co-working space in Dublin. I envision it to work whereby I rent out an office space and do it up, then sublet spaces to individuals or small companies with the flexibility of month to month terms.

As someone who works from home myself, I know that one of the main things you miss is working amongst others, sharing ideas, making connections but more so being able to have the change of environment and get out of the house.

For self employed designers, developers and other freelancers, I believe a low commitment, modern/slick working environment amongst other like minded people would be really attractive.

The timing is there as well with a lot of empty spaces, and the possibility of landlords willing to be a bit more flexible, especially with something like this that doesn't require any major works.

Do you think something like this could work? And if there happen to be any landlords here interested in discussing this further just get in touch!

mneylon

You'd need to do market research

MidlandsM

yeah, look closely at how other SUCCESSFULL service providers do this.......for starters.

Overthrow

Cheers for the replies. I'd do a good bit of market research before actually initiating it alright. I tried contacting a similar place in Dublin for advice but they didn't get back to me unfortunately. Mainly I'm wondering is it only possible if receiving grants or subsidies, or could it work regardless.

Axwell

Overthrow wrote: »

Cheers for the replies. I'd do a good bit of market research before actually initiating it alright. I tried contacting a similar place in Dublin for advice but they didn't get back to me unfortunately. Mainly I'm wondering is it only possible if receiving grants or subsidies, or could it work regardless.

This suggests you havent done much if any already and only have contacted one similar type setup from what you said. Without doing the research yourself to see is it a viable business for you financially etc there isnt much you will get back from asking on here. The businesses you want to rent it out to arent going to be the ones looking for grants or subsidies in relation to renting out space so asking on here would it work regardless again comes down to you. Can you afford the premises and can you afford to offer the people renting reasonable rent for such a space and co working environment. What support or grants etc are out there that you might be able to get.

Have you done a costing analysis based on typical rents you would get and seeing if it would cover the rent of such a premises, allowed for the capital needed to fit out the building, good broadband is essential, a break out area or meeting room space and kitchen and toilets etc.

There are loads of other places out there doing this that you can easily contact and find out the kind of rates they charge and what they offer and then go and see can you match this. You should be contacting them all not just one and putting some research together first for yourself to see if its viable for you.

maps and atlas

Research the market well before you commit to anything. There are a number of companies in this space. These guys, for example, who regularly advertise spaces at €250 per month:

http://search.capelabbey.com/searchcommercial.daft?search=1&s[search_type]=commercial&s[agent_id]=396&s[p]=qpyrxquq&offset=0&limit=25&search_type=commercial&id=14323

Overthrow

Axwell wrote: »

This suggests you havent done much if any already and only have contacted one similar type setup from what you said. Without doing the research yourself to see is it a viable business for you financially etc there isnt much you will get back from asking on here. The businesses you want to rent it out to arent going to be the ones looking for grants or subsidies in relation to renting out space so asking on here would it work regardless again comes down to you. Can you afford the premises and can you afford to offer the people renting reasonable rent for such a space and co working environment. What support or grants etc are out there that you might be able to get.

Have you done a costing analysis based on typical rents you would get and seeing if it would cover the rent of such a premises, allowed for the capital needed to fit out the building, good broadband is essential, a break out area or meeting room space and kitchen and toilets etc.

There are loads of other places out there doing this that you can easily contact and find out the kind of rates they charge and what they offer and then go and see can you match this. You should be contacting them all not just one and putting some research together first for yourself to see if its viable for you.

Thanks, you're right, I haven't even begun doing research on this yet. Posted thinking maybe someone knows a bit about the whole thing.

As regards grants/subsidies, I thought there might be assistance given to the running these types of spaces, for rejuvenation and promoting new business etc, rather than as supplements to the occupying businesses themselves. I'm hoping that this isn't the case, I'm hoping that the market would allow for them to operate independently.

Most places I've seen, the prices seem to be around €250/month per space. So yeah it'd be a matter of gauging how many people would be needed and at how much per month to see whether it was viable.

maps and atlas wrote: »

Research the market well before you commit to anything. There are a number of companies in this space. These guys, for example, who regularly advertise spaces at €250 per month:

http://search.capelabbey.com/searchcommercial.daft?search=1&s[search_type]=commercial&s[agent_id]=396&s[p]=qpyrxquq&offset=0&limit=25&search_type=commercial&id=14323

Yeah even Daft has a search for commercial sharing. I'd see this as more of a creative space for younger entrepreneurs who want a fairly slick place to work in with like minded people. I think the majority of places on Daft and offered by more conventional letting agencies are quite dull. I think a place with a bit of life and energy to it would pull in people very easily.

Axwell

Overthrow wrote: »

As regards grants/subsidies, I thought there might be assistance given to the running these types of spaces, for rejuvenation and promoting new business etc, rather than as supplements to the occupying businesses themselves. I'm hoping that this isn't the case, I'm hoping that the market would allow for them to operate independently.

That was my point, I wasnt suggesting the people renting would be the ones looking for the subsidies, you would. So it would come down to you to research that to see can you use it to bring the rent down or help get it to that €250 mark you are looking at.

There are plenty of other spaces out there apart from those on daft.

Amworks.ie is one example.

The NDRC, The Digital Hub, The Guinness Enterprise Centre all have similar setups with desks available for small businesses/startups with other supporting services and funding programmes attached.

tricky D

There's a few of these already in existence. A bit rusty but I think Space 28 at 28 North Lotts Dublin 1 is one and there was another on Liffey St possibly beside Nourish.

capefear

Hi Overthrow
I think it’s a good idea and I spent a lot of time last yeartrying to get something like it of the ground but gave up in the end.

I emailed and rang most of the landlords and estate agentson daft and I found no one that was willing to do a deal on the rent. I rangand email the receivers and liquidators who are responsible for the propertiesowed by Nama and again they were less than help full.
All the landlord wanted was for me to take over the fullproperty and pay the rent and rates; they had no interest in working with me.

If you are lucky to find a landlord who is willing to workwith you, you then need to take out insurance as you will be responsible for allthe tenants who rent a desk/office of you.
You will need to decide are you going to provide an all inpack as in rent, rates, insurance, telephone, light, heat and broadband for afee of say €250.00 a month or are you only going to provide a cheaper pack ofsay rent, rates, insurance for €150.00 and the tenant is responsible for therest.

Again all these bring their own problems.
If you provide the Broadband, if your background is not IT, youneed to have an IT guy on hand to fix any IT issues that arise as in this dayand age, people need the net and any downtime can cost someone money.

Telephone- if you use a PBX or VoIP system and headsets that’s going to costyou money to install and maintain and again your IT person will be neededonsite. You will need to be able to offer the tenants the option of either alandline or let them use their mobile number. As you have to be able to competewith the likes of Regus and bespoke etc.
Light and heat- will this be included in the monthly fee.The light and heat won’t be too bad during the summer but will be expensiveduring the winter. If you are including this in the rent, be prepared forpeople to have the heat on 24/7 during the winter as they will not be payingfor it.

Maintenance for the building and cleaning you will beresponsible for this as well as advertising on daft, providing furniture etc.
What security will you have to access the building, as somepeople will only work 9-5, some will work longer, and getting keys cut etc won’twork.

Will you need a person onsite 9-5 to deal with problems, deliveries,show people around etc. If you hire a receptionist and have to pay the monthly rent,that could be say 3-4k a month outgoing straight away.
As I said I spent a lot of time last year looking into thisand just decided it wasn’t worth the hassle in the end.

A lot of established businesses that have spare rooms are startingto provide this and they have the premises already in a rentable position. Youwill have to make up any shortfall in rent etc at the start. You will becompeting with established business that I think have the market sowing up allready and it’s very hard to compete against a place in Harcourt Streetproviding an all in service for 150 a month. I decided to just look after my own businessand rent a small place and leave it at that.
There are no grants to my knowledge available for this typeof service but I could be wrong as its been 6 months since I last looked.

Pm me if you want to ask me anymore questions.
PS. The above is just my opinon and is not meant in anywayto put you of the idea. The idea will work if you get the right landlord onboard from the start. That’s the key bit.

Before you spend any more time working on this project. Iwould get a sheet of paper and write down the outgoings, rent, rates etc and pick aproperty in daft that shows the rent and then see how many people you will needto get in the door to break even.
HTH

Overthrow

Wow, exactly the type of advice I was hoping to get, thanks v much capefear!

Broadly speaking, I'd be looking to set the whole thing up at least initially with the minimum amount of complications. I'll send you a PM shortly with more specifics though!

Thanks again for the replies everyone.

bon ami

Hi,

I know this business reasonably well and i believe it is over supplied at present. A lot of companies have been trying to sub let offices they no longer need, owners with property which they have no hope of selling in the medium term are opening up serviced offices etc. etc and more office space is coming on t the market.

I would be very careful about committing to a lease and the revamping costs unless you are really confident. You would need to be sure you can differentiate your offer from your competitors so taht you can fill the space.

forbairt

TBH I'd say the market is saturated at the moment.

I know places one or two years ago struggling to fill places ... maybe it wouldn't be the case for you but once you factor in all the costs .. rent for X years ( as it's unlikely anyone will do a deal with you ) insurance ... kitting out the offices / heating (you need to heat the whole place even if you've only 1 client) and so ... you'll want to hit the ground running with a fully packed office unfortunately you'll need people to attract people ...

As said ... look at doing some serious research on all this ... you wouldn't be looking at breaking even for a few years and would need to invest a good bit ... plus you'd probably be locked into a contract of some type for the office space ...

Gekko

Hi Overthrow,

Myself and capefear were looking at offices there a while ago and I looked at a shared space too.

My feeling is that to make a good shared space work, the key to it is location and pricing. Realistically I think the most you can charge per month for a desk is about €180.

I've read about other spaces abroad where the desks are basically free and then the owner or proprietor makes money from food and drink and other ancilliaries. I don't know if that'd be possible here.

Dublin is really lacking somewhere like this that stands out, with attractive interior design but also perhaps that does some decent coffee, snacks and sandwiches as well...something a little bit different.

It needs to have an atmosphere a little bit like a private members club but friendlier if that makes any sense.

Forgot to add, the guys at www.coworkinn.ie are on the right track and are hoping to set up somewhere in the city centre.

That's my 2c worth anyhow!

Gekko

Any more thoughts on this?

It's a shame that local authorities couldn't reduce or do away with rates on these spaces if you agree to meet some sort of socially positive criteria.

I think in many cases the rates are what would prevent the numbers from working.

BigGrayKettle

I think you are right in saying the most you could charge is about €180, I'd almost be thinking less to be honest. Shopping around can get a guy his own office in a shard building for not much more.

I feel much of the shared space currently on offer is targeted at the younger market, with most people working in areas like Web & App Development, Graphic & Games Design and so on. If you could get a building and in some way partition/divide it into properly separated smaller offices, I think that could be a winner. More work and cost, but you could certainly charge more and attract clients from a broader market segment.