Alarm system advice

ironderek

Hi, I'm looking for advice what alarm system should I choose for my house. I have 3 bedroom terrace house which has all ready some old crappy alarm Aritech CS350N. This alarm does absolutely nothing, goes off without any reasons at night or day time. We don't have any PIRs only door and window sensors (window sensors are with shake sensor). So when alarm goes off doesn't show me what sensor wake up alarm, only show me the zone upstairs or downstairs.
I would like to upgrade the old alarm with something much better or put the new wireless alarm, because the house is after renovation and I don't want to destroy it again.
I would like to get the alarm with GSM modem which will send me the whole information when alarm will goes off, and tell me exactly which sensor wake up the alarm. I've been thinking to put one PIR downstairs in the hole face in to the door, another one into the sitting room, and another one in the kitchen. On the first floor I have two bedrooms with balcony-in one of them sleeps my soon, and second one is empty at the moment, so I don't know if put there only the new sensors on the balcony doors and windows or something more? I also have metal garden shed about 18 meters beside the house where I keep some tools, so I would like to secure it as well-but how - PIR or door sensor?
Can somebody advise me what alarm should I buy, and what incl. should be(what good PIRs, central, keypad etc.) and how much will it cost/
Thank You.

Thunderbird2

Are there still wires there after the renovations ? You could put in a HKC system and use the existing wiring along with point ID sensors . You can give them separate names and use the existing wiring . You could place a wireless sensor on the shed . HKC have released a new plug on GSM costs under €200 . The PIRs can all be wired via Point ID also . I don't know if the Siemens supports point ID but its another option

KoolKid

Point ID is pretty old technology at this stage.My advice, based on experience with it over the years, is to keep away from it. If your looking at wireless each device will have its own zone anyway. Wireless Inertia contacts can also be set to show as 2 separate zones so it will actually let you know whether the sensor or contact activated on that device.

ironderek

The old alarm is still hanging on the wall with all sensors on the doors and windows so the whole wires can be reused again, but at the moment we don't switch on the alarm, because it goes off without the reason in the middle of the night or day, and doesn't show me which sensor causes this trouble.
can you please advise me on what system i should get instead including all necessary fixtures & fittings.

KoolKid

If the wiring seems good Id recommend the Siemens SPC panels. Get someone in to check out the sensors and find alk the faulty ones. After that use the existing wiring but split up
the zones so there are only a couple of devices per zone.

Thunderbird2

There's not a thing wrong with point ID sensors . if eircom phonewatch use them that saying something ? you only need 3 cores . All the PIRs in my house are point ID . Never had a problem with them and they were so easy to install . No messing about trying to find which wire is what .
The HKC 10/70 system will work out cheaper with the GSM unit then the Siemens

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

There's not a thing wrong with point ID sensors .

And in all your years experience how many have you installed?
I was installing them when they came out in the 90s .I have installed plenty over the years. They have always been prone to the comms lost issues. My opinion is based on over 25 years in the business. Whats your experience with these?

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

if eircom phonewatch use them that saying something

I rest my case..;)

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

you only need 3 cores .

3 cores for what? Any zone can be done on 2 or 3 cores?

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

All the PIRs in my house are point ID . Never had a problem with them and they were so easy to install .

How many Pirs is that exactly? Unless its 100+ its hardly an indication of reliability.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

No messing about trying to find which wire is what .

Any cable can be traced in a matter of minutes. Its part of the installation process. Even if your paralleling them all cables still should be identified.
The fact you are even staying such a thing shows a lack of knowledge when it comes to installing.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

The HKC 10/70 system will work out cheaper with the GSM unit then the Siemens

Very little between the 2 if you shop around & buy in kit form.

Thunderbird2

I don't think that HKC would keep selling them if they were causing trouble ?
I don't think phonewatch would use HKCs gear either if it wasn't good . They don't install Siemens gear .
Anyway HKCs way more popular then Siemens in Ireland .
the Op wants everything on seperate zones. If the downstairs is on one zone and so is the upstairs what way do you think it's wired ? The aritech panel has 6 zones so why would the original installer put everything on the one zone unless the wiring restricted him.
The OP has mentioned PIRs and the house isn't previews for them . HKCs RF PiRs wake immediately as soon as the system is armed . No timers .

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't think that HKC would keep selling them if they were causing trouble ?

So why do you think they wanted Astecs sensor technology.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't think phonewatch would use HKCs gear either if it wasn't good . They don't install Siemens gear .

They use the Simon panel . Are you saying thats top of the range?

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Anyway HKCs way more popular then Siemens in Ireland .

Siemens is a relativly new brand in the security industry. Perhaps if you incorporate Europlex into the figures you will find differently.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

the Op wants everything on seperate zones. If the downstairs is on one zone and so is the upstairs what way do you think it's wired ? The aritech panel has 6 zones so why would the original installer put everything on the one zone unless the wiring restricted him.

Wiring would not be a restriction. Even a 4 core can be split into 3 zones. A 6 core could give you 5.
An experienced installer would know this also.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

The OP has mentioned PIRs and the house isn't previews for them . HKCs RF PiRs wake immediately as soon as the system is armed . No timers .

Whats that relevant to?
You never mentioned how many PiRs your analyses was based on for the PiRs reliability.
You also never mentioned how many ID sensor systems you have installed?
You also never mentioned how much experience in the industry your decisions are based on...
I wonder why that is..??
Someone with more experience in the business would know of the comms issues with point ID over the years. Maybe you weren't around then .

Thunderbird2

I've 5 ID PIRs and 3 ID shocks . No trouble.
more then likely the PIRs will be wireless as the house has just been re done . Do the spc RF PIRs have a sleep time ? How much are they compared to HKCs?
Correction they use to install the simon panel just like installers use to install aritech cs350's and 6/12's + 8/12 's
I though you only used Siemens gear ?
So how do you know what the newer HKC systems are like ? HKC want the Astec shock technology not the comms .

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I've 5 ID PIRs and 3 ID shocks . No trouble.

Hardly enough to determine the reliability of a product. I've installed hundreds of ID sensors over the years, plenty of trouble.Now I'm sure out of them there's a lot more than 5 that have had no issues. Maybe when you've installed much more we can compare.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

more then likely the PIRs will be wireless as the house has just been re done . Do the spc RF PIRs have a sleep time ? How much are they compared to HKCs?

The sleep time issue has be hashed out many times here. I'm baffled as to why your bringing it into this. Sleep time is approx 1.5 - 2 minutes on PiRs . When you take off the entry exit time its not a lot. Some less experienced installers make a big deal out of this. Some even suggested here before it was up to 4 or 5 minutes.
But to amuse you lets do some maths. Lets say 90 seconds sleep time .
That's 90 less EE time of 30 , that leaves 60 seconds. So the vulnerability is that someone is going to break into your home within 60 seconds of you setting your alarm.Not to mention not activating a perimeter device. That's hardly time for you to get the car out of the drive way or to walk out & down the road.
Seriousally?? is that the argument for no sleep time?
I have tried to explain this many times to you via PM etc. Maybe in time if you actually start installing professionally you will understand better.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Correction they use to install the simon panel just like installers use to install aritech cs350's and 6/12's + 8/12 's
I though you only used Siemens gear ?

Why would you think that?

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

So how do you know what the newer HKC systems are like ? HKC want the Aztec shock technology not the comms .

Exactly my point. If their own sensor was so reliable why did they need Astecs.
It couldn't be theirs was unreliable because you said..

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't think that HKC would keep selling them if they were causing trouble ?

??

Look, your a good lad & I know your eager to learn. But to do that sometimes you need to listen to others with the experience. This is dragging on a bit now so lets just leave it on this note. I've installed 100s of ID sensors & have had lots of issues. You've installed 3 & have had no issues. Let the OP make up his own mind shall we?

altor

ironderek wrote: »

Hi, I'm looking for advice what alarm system should I choose for my house. I have 3 bedroom terrace house which has all ready some old crappy alarm Aritech CS350N. This alarm does absolutely nothing, goes off without any reasons at night or day time. We don't have any PIRs only door and window sensors (window sensors are with shake sensor). So when alarm goes off doesn't show me what sensor wake up alarm, only show me the zone upstairs or downstairs.
I would like to upgrade the old alarm with something much better or put the new wireless alarm, because the house is after renovation and I don't want to destroy it again.
I would like to get the alarm with GSM modem which will send me the whole information when alarm will goes off, and tell me exactly which sensor wake up the alarm. I've been thinking to put one PIR downstairs in the hole face in to the door, another one into the sitting room, and another one in the kitchen. On the first floor I have two bedrooms with balcony-in one of them sleeps my soon, and second one is empty at the moment, so I don't know if put there only the new sensors on the balcony doors and windows or something more? I also have metal garden shed about 18 meters beside the house where I keep some tools, so I would like to secure it as well-but how - PIR or door sensor?
Can somebody advise me what alarm should I buy, and what incl. should be(what good PIRs, central, keypad etc.) and how much will it cost/
Thank You.

Regardless of the system you use to upgrade your older system you will still have an issue if there are faulty sensors on the system. The sensors will need to be tested to determine the faulty sensor or sensors to be replaced. Either the HKC securewave or the SPC will cover what you need.
Here is the link to the compassion thread to look over.

If you do want the zones broke up i too would recommend point ID sensors to be used. It gives more control over each sensor rather than having the global sensors installed on a loop. Each device is given there own name plus point on the system. Gross and Pulse can be set up differently for each point sensor.
I have installed hundreds of these sensors be that the PIRs or the standard point ID sensors for the windows and doors and to be honest find them as reliable as using a global sensor.

Using the point ID sensors in conjunction with a GSM or dialer will also give you more information as you will know which device activated the alarm plus with the PIRs installed you will also get a second text if the PIRs beam is broken when full set.

Stimpyone

Not to highjack the thread or anything but I too am looking to upgrade from my Aritech CS350. Unlike the original poster my system is currently working perfectly.

Presently I have magnetic detectors on every window/skylight and exterior door. I’d ideally like to upgrade to a system with PIR’s, Fob's, second panel upstairs, GSM dialler and a panic button.

Would it be possible to get a system that is both wired and wireless as I don’t fancy running wires to the PIR’s.

Also if anybody has any suggestions for a decent 2/3 camera CCTV system that would be much appreciated.

Many Thanks.

Thunderbird2

The HKC 10/70 would suit . They have just released a wireless keypad that you can use upstairs . It supports 2 way wireless devices such as smoke / heat / PIRs / sabbs /fobs/panic buttons/ keypads and contacts/shocks. It also takes wired devices and supports Point ID devices .

KoolKid

Stimpyone wrote: »

Not to highjack the thread or anything but I too am looking to upgrade from my Aritech CS350. Unlike the original poster my system is currently working perfectly.

Presently I have magnetic detectors on every window/skylight and exterior door. I’d ideally like to upgrade to a system with PIR’s, Fob's, second panel upstairs, GSM dialler and a panic button.

Would it be possible to get a system that is both wired and wireless as I don’t fancy running wires to the PIR’s.

Also if anybody has any suggestions for a decent 2/3 camera CCTV system that would be much appreciated.

Many Thanks.

HKC or Siemens would suit well here.See the comparisons thread here Siemens would also give the benefit of adding IP cameras & having everything accessible via the one browser or app.

Thunderbird2

are the wireless keypads for the Siemens expensive ?