Siemens wireless install, my discussion with Installer

H D

Hi all

I have been quoted a price for a Siemens wireless system install for basically the lower floor of my detached house in dublin (3 rooms + corridor + kitchen + conservatory and 3 door entry points)

As yet I have only spoken over the phone with the Installer who feels it is unneccessary to see the house to give a quotation.
Some key points of our conversation

1) Siemens is superior, and HKC (poorly made chinese brand)
2) Hybrid is not a good choice and better to go either wired or wireless. In my case he suggests wireless due to extension.
3) Most security companies are falsely advertising the age of their business, as well as many installers sharing their licenses, which may be a problem with insurers.
4) Although a price was quoted, he is unwilling to give details on the system, and what he will install, as he suggests this is sensitive information as well as being frustrated by clients taking the information and finding a cheaper source on Google. He did tell me too look up tyco and siemens products.
5) His company is a great choice because of longevity and reputation.

In all honestly the man seemed like a good guy, but like many tradesman fed up with the haggling of the "Google consumers" as well as being undercut by less established companies.

There was also discussion about monitoring ie. full or self monitoring.
The installer seemed to have a set price for whatever he offered and gave the impression he did not want to negotiate. This is not necessarily a bad thing i feel, unless the price is absurd.

What are the opinions of boards members.
Is there anything I should be weary of, all advice is welcome.

Thanks

Thunderbird2

•HKC is an Irish company for one .
Poorly made Chinese brand ? Haa . It's the most popular system in Ireland
He sounds like a bit of a Bul**itter .
•Why is hybrid not a good choice ?( mix of wired and wireless ) sounds like he's trying to pull a fast one on you .
•Has he proved to you how long he has been in business ? ?
•If he's not giving you any details of what YOU'RE going to be paying for then stay clear .
• A full site survey is advised by all good installers so that they can provide you with the best protection and so that you can find out what work will need to be done .
• all prices should be discussed and agreed upon before any installation date is set.


In all honesty there should be a name and shame section on boards for installers like this

KoolKid

H D wrote: »

1) Siemens is superior, and HKC (poorly made chinese brand)
2) Hybrid is not a good choice and better to go either wired or wireless. In my case he suggests wireless due to extension.
3) Most security companies are falsely advertising the age of their business, as well as many installers sharing their licenses, which may be a problem with insurers.
4) Although a price was quoted, he is unwilling to give details on the system, and what he will install, as he suggests this is sensitive information as well as being frustrated by clients taking the information and finding a cheaper source on Google. He did tell me too look up tyco and siemens products.
5) His company is a great choice because of longevity and reputation.

In all honestly the man seemed like a good guy, but like many tradesman fed up with the haggling of the "Google consumers" as well as being undercut by less established companies.

There was also discussion about monitoring ie. full or self monitoring.
The installer seemed to have a set price for whatever he offered and gave the impression he did not want to negotiate. This is not necessarily a bad thing i feel, unless the price is absurd.

What are the opinions of boards members.
Is there anything I should be weary of, all advice is welcome.

Thanks

1) Siemens would be the Superior brand ( the name speaks for itself) but he is wrong about HKC. They are an Irish company. Probably referring to many components possibly coming from China.
2) No difference between Hybrid & wired or wireless IMO.
3) I have never come across this. Unlicensed installers are an Issue & the electricians panel of choice would be HKC.
4) If hes a licensed installer he should be supplying with with a detailed system design proposal . Sounds a bit suspect here to be honest.
5) We can all say that. His bit about companies lying about how long they are in business is a strange one. All that is easily checked.

Competition is fierce & if hes not able to compete that's not your problem.
Most jobs I get these days I would be up against 4 or 5 prices. What gets me most of them are 3 of those 5 will only know HKC & nothing else. When people are shown a working demonstration of the Siemens systems & see its in or around the same price its usually enough. Siemens is a well established & respected brand worldwide & TBH people are usually expecting the price to be much dearer.
Monitoring with everything else is negotiable. As is the service. Whats he offering for a service maintenance & monitoring contract. Some guys limit maintenance to 2 calls per year. IMO if your paying someone a set price to maintain the system that should include all calls & labour. Why should you have to pay if he does something wrong & has to come back a third time etc.
He sounds a bit like the old school bully boy style reps of years ago with the take it or leave it attitude. Shop around would be my advice. Get at least 3 quotes , decide on the make & model of system you want. Then get all your quotes based on that & ensure your comparing like with like.
I would also not deal with anyone refusing to call & do a proper survey.

altor

[QUOTE=H D;82571498
HKC (poorly made chinese brand)
tyco and siemens products.
[/QUOTE]

HKC are far from a poorly made product.
They are used more so than any other system in Ireland.

If he is talking about tyco then he is referring to Visonic systems. The PowerMaster are there new system which use two way for there devices.
Did he say what he is covering in the system for you e.g. windows and doors, PIRs ect?

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Did he say what he is covering in the system for you e.g. windows and doors, PIRs ect?

He didn't want to give a spec at all. I find that very strange.

altor

He did not give the system he is installing is a strange one.

Just wondering if the OP was told what was being covered in the system be that windows and doors, PIRs even if the installer did not want to give the name of the control system?

Thunderbird2

Why would he discourage hybrid systems ?
I'd love to know the name of the company

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Why would he discourage hybrid systems ?
I'd love to know the name of the company

More money installing a full wire free system than a hybrid with extra wire free sensors.

fred funk }{

Never heard of an installer not specifying what they're proposing to install. He has a point regarding the "Google consumers" though.

I thought HKC were made in china, no?

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

I thought HKC were made in china, no?

Made in China ,assembled in Dublin perhaps ???

Thunderbird2

I don't see a problem with it being made in china . Samsung and apple products are made in china along with hundreds of other items

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't see a problem with it being made in china . Samsung and apple products are made in china along with hundreds of other items

Parts are made in china but the system is assembled and tested in Dublin.

fred funk }{

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't see a problem with it being made in china . Samsung and apple products are made in china along with hundreds of other items

I wasn't suggesting there was anything wrong with it as we all know most things are made in china these days. My point is that the OP's potential installer wasn't incorrect in what he said.

markad1

altor wrote: »

Parts are made in china but the system is assembled and tested in Dublin.

Also research and design in Dublin
There's a good few people employed there "keeping it Irish"

altor

markad1 wrote: »

Also research and design in Dublin
There's a good few people employed there "keeping it Irish"

Has to be a plus also :-)

John Kelly of

Ha Ha let me guess "mod Edit, name and company removed". Most likely its Visonic as thats what he uses. If I'm right you should check if that's the case and ask him what the connection with Siemens is.

H D

thank you all for your replies. As usual boards is the best Irish resource.


I will be getting more quotes.
Thanks all

KoolKid

H D wrote: »

thank you all for your replies. As usual boards is the best Irish resource.


I will be getting more quotes.
Thanks all

Your welcome .
Lets know how you get on.

altor

H D wrote: »

thank you all for your replies. As usual boards is the best Irish resource.


I will be getting more quotes.
Thanks all

The best advice anyone can give is to get quotes off installers comparing like with like. Can understand why the installer did not give you a detailed list of what he was planning to install. He could of installed any type system without telling you what it was if you gave him the go ahead.

John Kelly of

altor wrote: »

The best advice anyone can give is to get quotes off installers comparing like with like. Can understand why the installer did not give you a detailed list of what he was planning to install. He could of installed any type system without telling you what it was if you gave him the go ahead.

Yep its madness when you think of it, if he is refusing to tell you exactly what you are getting and you spending a lot of money. It should be all written down in black and white and that's the regs as well btw - its called a 'system design proposal'.
One more thing. If it is who I think it is he probably advised just to get motion sensors and not do the windows or doors with shock sensors. This means if the bad guys smash the glass or burst open a window nothing will happen and they would have to already be inside the house before the alarm goes off. Now if that was my house I don't think that would be good enough. I would prefer the alarm to activate BEFORE they have the window/door open.:cool: