.308 Ammo

kildarejoe

Does anyone know if anywhere on this wee island stocks .308 sub sonics.
I have been offered deer permission but it has horses on the land and it is conditional that I dont spook the horses.
Even with a supressor the normal ammo makes a fair old racket but I recon sub sonics would be fairly quite.

Vegeta

Will subsonic .308 rounds make the legal energy requirements for deer? Haven't run the numbers but my initial guess would be that they won't come close.

Maybe another option is when you're thinking of giving the land a stalk ring the landowner and ask if the horses are out on the land or in the stables.

juice1304

As said they won't come close to the energy requirements.
168gr
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 1065 NaN 0 0 423 0

Cass

A .308 sub sonic round will never be deer legal.

100gr needs to be doing 2950fps to make the 1,700ft/lb limit.
155gr needs to be doing 2300fps to make the 1,700ft/lb limit.
200gr needs to be doing 2000fps to make the 1,700ft/lb limit.

With sub sonics coming in at a maximum of 1,128fps the maximum ft'lb energy got from any .308 round would be 450. Nearly 4 times less than the legal minimum.



As Vegeta said the better, legal, option is to shoot when the horses are elsewhere. Plus i wouldn't dream of firing a shot when there is livestock of any kind in the same fields.

meathstevie

Does your rifle have a can fitted ? Unless the horses are in line with the shot it should be quiet enough. No matter what you do I'm quite sure no sub sonic full bore ammo will have the energy requirements.

demonloop

Another possible solution...

clivej

meathstevie wrote: »

Does your rifle have a can fitted ? Unless the horses are in line with the shot it should be quiet enough. No matter what you do I'm quite sure no sub sonic full bore ammo will have the energy requirements.

Still won't reduce the noise level enough.

Even a .22lr with a mod SHOT IN THE NEXT FIELD will send the horses crazy.

SeeZee

You can get .308 sub sonic factory ammo which with a mod is absolutely silent, but, even if you could get the required energy (which you can't) you cannot stop the sound of the impact of the round. If you can hear an impact loud and clear at 100yds what would it sound like at several yards? Enough to startle any beast is say

Cass

SeeZee wrote: »

You can get .308 sub sonic factory ammo which with a mod is absolutely silent, ...........

I understand what you are saying, but nothing can absolutely silence a shot. Greatly reduce yes, but not silence. They are suppressors, not silencers. It's the movies have them branded as such. A .308, even subsonic, will still create noise, and the suppressor will reduce this noise, but not to the extent that it silences it completely.


All this is academic. A .308 at sub sonic speeds simply will not meet the legal requirements to be deer legal. Unlike some rounds/calibers that are close or just a fraction under the legal minimum to have a .308 doing sub sonic speeds creates, at most, 450 ft/lb of energy. That is a minimum of 3 times less than the minimum. If it were 1,600 or there abouts you could make the argument that 50 - 100 ft/lb would not be such a big deal. However 450 is far too little. By the time the bullet has reached 100 yards it is down to 380ft/lb.

hedzball

clivej wrote: »

Still won't reduce the noise level enough.

Even a .22lr with a mod SHOT IN THE NEXT FIELD will send the horses crazy.

I dunno what kind of horses ye bheys have up yer direction but I shoot a modded/unmodded 223 and 270 around them and in the same field and I have never really spooked them.. a Mild startle would be more an apt word?


'hdz

IRLConor

Here's a round for you, OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.510_Whisper

Good luck getting a cert.

4200fps

Subsonic is a little over 700mph I think.
Subsonic rounds in .3 calibers have risk of a secondary explosion I was told.
They be good for nothing. A mod is your only hope to keep down the noise.

SeeZee

4200fps wrote: »

Subsonic rounds in .3 calibers have risk of a secondary explosion I was told.

We're you told anything else on this. Where does the second explosion come from?

extremetaz

SeeZee wrote: »

We're you told anything else on this. Where does the second explosion come from?

I'd be interested to hear the answer to that one too.

extremetaz

IRLConor wrote: »

Here's a round for you, OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.510_Whisper

Good luck getting a cert.

ROFL - the wiki cites energy out to 500yards - at that velocity the bloody thing would be near coming straight down by then!

Might as well be trying to hit the target with a mortar.

Still be a helluva lotta fun to play with.

*edit: just for giggles I checked the ballistics for a roundwith a Cd of 0.8.

Zero'd at 100m,
~1m drop out to 200m
~3m drop out to 300m
~5m by 400
~9m by 500
~13.5m by 600
~19m at 700

granted, I'm told most deer are taken well below 100m - but those figures are still pretty amusing.
It's dropping at ~1m in 10 after 500m.

long range shooter

SeeZee wrote: »

We're you told anything else on this. Where does the second explosion come from?

Read here and you will find what you are looking for

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

SeeZee

long range shooter wrote: »

Read here and you will find what you are looking for

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

Seems to be for hand loaded ammo. I'd try the factory stuff.

long range shooter

SeeZee wrote: »

Seems to be for hand loaded ammo. I'd try the factory stuff.

The factory Ammo probably won't stabilise the bullet,unless you have a 1/8 to 1/10 twist

4200fps

SeeZee wrote: »

We're you told anything else on this. Where does the second explosion come from?

extremetaz wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear the answer to that one too.

A round like this has a high risk of getting stuck in barrel. The second round will let you know if there was a round stuck in it or not when it hits the bullet.