Moving doggie from inside to outside

DBB

tatabubbly wrote: »

*Sigh* I don't even know how to reply to that. OF COURSE I asked the trainer what sort of stimulation the dog will need outside, how to best socialise her and how to prevent the dog from becoming isolated. I've used this trainer before, she's absolutely brilliant and has been around for a long time. She has given me specific advice which I will take and apply to my situation.

But you haven't answered my question. What are her qualifications?
It is not a qualification to be doing something for a long time. I've been cutting up bits of meat and carcasses to cook for years now, would you like me to perform surgery on you? The world of dog training and behaviour has been revolutionised in the past 10 years, and there is no excuse for any trainer not to have updated their own training.
Seriously OP, no qualified trainer or behaviourist will tell you it's okay to keep your dog outside 24/7, no matter how many coats, kennels or toys you throw at the dog. None of these things caters for the dog's biggest need: social contact with its owner.
There is nothing you or I can do, or any trainer/behaviourist can do, to change this fact. Nothing. You might feel disheartened by the way this thread has gone, but pretty much everything you've been told is true: it doesn't seem to suit you to believe it or accept it, but that does not nullify the veracity of what you've been told by many posters here.

cocker5

OP, I know your in a very difficult situation but i have to agree with some of the other posters, for me we are a package of three (me, hubby and my cocker) and wouldnt even comtemplate moving somehwere where it meant he has to stay outside 24/7, but thats just me. I would hang on for something better / a more tolerant landlord or another area.

My cocker has been an indoor dog since 8 weeks, i cannot imagine after 2 years of company, comforts and spending all my time at home with him, then moving him outside, it wouldnt be fair on him or me so it wouldnt be an option for us.

Sorry

maggiepip

tatabubbly wrote: »

Okay well, yeah... This has been helpful to solve my problem.

Well we're going to see how things pan out with the house but we've decided after talking to a dog behaviour trainer that our dog will be fine outside with adequate heating and bedding. She will also have a coat etc for days when its raining.

I just want to say one final thing on this topic - Is'nt it interesting how some people will always find someone who will tell them exactly what they want to hear?:mad:

westies4ever

An interesting point from my own experience.

I have a dog flap fitted in my back door. When I'm out, it's locked and the dogs are indoors.

When I'm home it's unlocked and they can go in and out as they please. And guess what they choose 90% of the time, no matter what the weather?

That's right, indoors with us.

loveisdivine

tatabubbly wrote: »

*Sigh*

I'm a bit disheartened by this thread. I feel like a monster for even suggesting it on this.

I've decided to keep this open for anyone else who wants to look into this topic but I won't be posting here again.

Thanks for everyones help.

To be honest this happens a fair bit in A&PI and its always for the same reason. People post here expecting a certain answer and guess what, they dont get it.

The reason you are disheartened is because you have been told the truth and not what you wanted to hear.

Also, to me, you saying you wont be posting here anymore tells me that you are not open to hearing/taking on board anything that disagrees with what you have already decided in your head.

Everything said above is true. If this was a working dog, kept outside from the beginning then it would be a different story.

runawaybishop

tatabubbly wrote: »

*Sigh* I don't even know how to reply to that. OF COURSE I asked the trainer what sort of stimulation the dog will need outside, how to best socialise her and how to prevent the dog from becoming isolated. I've used this trainer before, she's absolutely brilliant and has been around for a long time. She has given me specific advice which I will take and apply to my situation.

I'm a bit disheartened by this thread. I feel like a monster for even suggesting it on this.

I've decided to keep this open for anyone else who wants to look into this topic but I won't be posting here again.

Thanks for everyones help.

In here its animals first, people second.

I agree that your family comes first but I don't see why you should be lambasted for looking for advice on how to best treat your dog.

Put a kennel in the shed, that little dog wont be able to heat up a shed by itself.

I wouldn't exactly be delighted by the "no animals in house" rule but i can see where the LL is coming from, its his property anyway. You will need to ensure you dog is provided with adequate companionship, which will be difficult on you if it is not allowed inside. Good luck.

sambuka41

I'm not sure of the point of posting this as the OP is not engaging but just in case he/she sees it. Every rented house I lived in has been advertised as no pets; I would view the place show my references (landlord and Job) and then approach the subject of pets. Some people will outright say no, which is fine I leave but all the places I have eventually taken agreed to pets.

They won't go as far to remove the 'no pets' part of the contract, my current landlord said this will be his security, if my pets caused problems he could use it against us, if they don't then no harm. I would love for the Irish rental market to cop on a bit.

So there are options, it just requires a bit of negotiation

It's sad situation, I think you will have some behavioural issues from your dog. A move to a new house is disruptive at the best of times but this is a complete removal from his normal situation. There is no way your dog won't suffer separation anxiety, no way. It'll probably start with her barking all day, then the neighbors complain, your landlord is not very accommodating so either you'll be evicted or the dog rehomed.

Might be a bit off the wall BUT would you not consider leaving the dog with your parents?? It sounds like a better situation for her?? I know you love your dog but think about whats best for her???

sambuka41

tatabubbly wrote: »

Landlord doesn't want her anywhere in the house at all. In fact he wouldn't negotiate on the rental price because of the dog.

He is just being a chancer here. He is using it as an excuse not to negotiate on the rent. It's not like he is going to save all the extra rent your are paying to cover the 'damages' he is foreseeing, he will still ask for payment to cover these, in the meantime you will still have paid more rent than necessary.

To be honest he sounds like an ass, you will have nothing but hassle from a landlord like that. Aside from the dog,wait until the day something breaks and he wont replace it.

runawaybishop

sambuka41 wrote: »

He is just being a chancer here. He is using it as an excuse not to negotiate on the rent.

How do you know this? Perhaps he had a bad experience previously.

sambuka41

runawaybishop wrote: »

How do you know this? Perhaps he had a bad experience previously.

But potential damage will have to be paid for by the tenant either way, so having a higher rent is not going to compensate him for this, it's just his way of not having to negotiate a cheaper rent.

runawaybishop

sambuka41 wrote: »

But potential damage will have to be paid for by the tenant either way, so having a higher rent is not going to compensate him for this, it's just his way of not having to negotiate a cheaper rent.

Yes, this is technically true. That in no way means that he cannot decide to save himself potential future hassle. Its all good and well saying "the tenant will have to cover it" but if you pop over to the accommodation section you will find many threads about landlords being left out of pocket.

The LL is well within his right to not allow animals and is in no way being unreasonable with such a demand.

Soups123

If I was in your position and the house was a must, then I wouldnt give a toss re the landlord. That might sound like bad advise but if I was you I would set up the back garden for during the day but when you are at home have him in, enjoy your dog and sleep him on simple bedding in the utility room.

The landlord is not going to come to your house every night nor can he come without your permission, whats the worst that can happen?

Personally I wouldnt get a good nights sleep any night especially in this weather knowing he is breeding freezing cold air outside.

Keep the house clean, hoover the dog hairs, if he is trained he'll cause no damage visible to a landlord.

runawaybishop

Soups123 wrote: »

If I was in your position and the house was a must, then I wouldnt give a toss re the landlord. That might sound like bad advise but if I was you I would set up the back garden for during the day but when you are at home have him in, enjoy your dog and sleep him on simple bedding in the utility room.

The landlord is not going to come to your house every night nor can he come without your permission, whats the worst that can happen?

Personally I wouldnt get a good nights sleep any night especially in this weather knowing he is breeding freezing cold air outside.

Keep the house clean, hoover the dog hairs, if he is trained he'll cause no damage visible to a landlord.

Eviction is the worst that can happen. The dog will be fine outside, the more difficult part is ensuring the dog has companionship.

sambuka41

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, this is technically true. That in no way means that he cannot decide to save himself potential future hassle. Its all good and well saying "the tenant will have to cover it" but if you pop over to the accommodation section you will find many threads about landlords being left out of pocket.

The LL is well within his right to not allow animals and is in no way being unreasonable with such a demand.

My personal experience with landlords would say this guy is pulling a fast one, and dodged a reduction in rent with an excuse. I get what your saying, living in flat land I have seen a fair amount of ppl cause major damage and pets cause major damage. Its always a risk. The landlord should either accept pets or not. I wouldn't rent from a landlord that appears to be that unwilling to accomodate. It spells trouble for future.

But it's probably not relevant as the OP seems to have made their decision. I just don't think this will end well for humans or dog

runawaybishop

sambuka41 wrote: »

My personal experience with landlords would say this guy is pulling a fast one, and dodged a reduction in rent with an excuse. I get what your saying, living in flat land I have seen a fair amount of ppl cause major damage and pets cause major damage. Its always a risk. The landlord should either accept pets or not. I wouldn't rent from a landlord that appears to be that unwilling to accomodate. It spells trouble for future.

But it's probably not relevant as the OP seems to have made their decision. I just don't think this will end well for humans or dog

Is the landlord not accommodating by allowing the OP to keep the dog outside though? Maybe I misread something but this seems reasonable given that the LL doesn't want pets inside. Personally I would also not rent if my pets were not allowed inside, but i am not in the position the OP is in - he has clearly stated that necessity is forcing his hand.

Whispered

runawaybishop wrote: »

Is the landlord not accommodating by allowing the OP to keep the dog outside though? Maybe I misread something but this seems reasonable given that the LL doesn't want pets inside. Personally I would also not rent if my pets were not allowed inside, but i am not in the position the OP is in - he has clearly stated that necessity is forcing his hand.

I absolutely agree, the LL is well within his rights to have whatever rules he wants, within reason of course. It's up to the potential tenants to accept them or to look elsewhere.

sambuka41

runawaybishop wrote: »

Is the landlord not accommodating by allowing the OP to keep the dog outside though? Maybe I misread something but this seems reasonable given that the LL doesn't want pets inside. Personally I would also not rent if my pets were not allowed inside, but i am not in the position the OP is in - he has clearly stated that necessity is forcing his hand.

It's not forcing his hand, he could just say no and find another tenant. I don't think that's accommodating; it's putting a stern stipulation on the tenancy. Renting your place is a risk, it's always a risk. I would say this LL has been burned before but if he plans to keep renting his property then he needs to take the risk, he can't fully control what his tenants do.

I would say that as soon as complaint comes through about barking, he'll ask for dog to go. (and this will be enevitable due to upheaval for dog) Best would probably be for the dog to stay with OP parents, if they will allow it.

Soups123

runawaybishop wrote: »

Eviction is the worst that can happen. The dog will be fine outside, the more difficult part is ensuring the dog has companionship.

I would take my chances, he is letting through an agency so it will be they who come out, always with advance notice.

I would take my chances rather than put him outside 'if' the house was a must, otherwise I would choose another house

runawaybishop

sambuka41 wrote: »

It's not forcing his hand, he could just say no and find another tenant. I don't think that's accommodating; it's putting a stern stipulation on the tenancy. Renting your place is a risk, it's always a risk. I would say this LL has been burned before but if he plans to keep renting his property then he needs to take the risk, he can't fully control what his tenants do.

I would say that as soon as complaint comes through about barking, he'll ask for dog to go. (and this will be enevitable due to upheaval for dog) Best would probably be for the dog to stay with OP parents, if they will allow it.

You could be right about the barking though i disgree that allowing them to keep teh dog outside is not a compromise.

Soups123 wrote: »

I would take my chances, he is letting through an agency so it will be they who come out, always with advance notice.

I would take my chances rather than put him outside 'if' the house was a must, otherwise I would choose another house

You'd probably be OK in fairness but i couldn't suggest that someone violate their rental agreement with a clear conscience, especially if the result is an eviction.

ShaShaBear

What the OP doesn't realise, is that no amount of training her dog by making it sleep downstairs is going to prepare it for a nasty shock once they move into this new house and the poor dog doesn't have a clue where it is, what the new smells and unusual noises are, and when she will she her mammy again.

She is going to scratch, cry, possibly even howl, and if she REALLY panics, she might have accidents in the utility room. And the landlord is smart. He is confining the potential damages to the garden, but I can guarantee you once the dog is reported for barking, it'll be a "dog out or family out" situation. And if the landlord spots any indication that the dog MAY have been inside, OP will be told to get rid of the dog as well.

Soups123

runawaybishop wrote: »

You could be right about the barking though i disgree that allowing them to keep teh dog outside is not a compromise.



You'd probably be OK in fairness but i couldn't suggest that someone violate their rental agreement with a clear conscience, especially if the result is an eviction.

I would have a worse conscience with the dog out side, than worried about a rental agreement.

But as I said earlier unless I was confident my dog wasnt impacted by the move I would chose another house.

In the above scenario though I would take the house and leave the dog in, will probably be a non issue

runawaybishop

Soups123 wrote: »

I would have a worse conscience with the dog out side, than worried about a rental agreement.

But as I said earlier unless I was confident my dog wasnt impacted by the move I would chose another house.

In the above scenario though I would take the house and leave the dog in, will probably be a non issue

In theory there should be absolutely no issue with the dog being outside, provided it is done correctly. Its up to you if you break your rental agreement of course, but then you'd have to accept eviction if caught.

Bid08

I think the dog will have a heard time with adjusting to outside esp at night, its a big shock and we are now in Jan , its not like its June where the weather would be milder and its not a very hairy dog so will feel the cold a bit more

one of my own lads hates being in the pen after dark cos he knows he should be in the hse, if we are away and get home late he isnt happy cos as soon as we get home from work they are in the hse so he finds it hard staying out a few hrs longer

Soups123

runawaybishop wrote: »

In theory there should be absolutely no issue with the dog being outside, provided it is done correctly. Its up to you if you break your rental agreement of course, but then you'd have to accept eviction if caught.

I don't agree with this bit, if a dog is raised from young outside I think it would climatise and probably be fine but given that it has been indoors and has never slept outside before then it will be very hard to adjust, almost cruel.

runawaybishop

Soups123 wrote: »

I don't agree with this bit, if a dog is raised from young outside I think it would climatise and probably be fine but given that it has been indoors and has never slept outside before then it will be very hard to adjust, almost cruel.

Dont be silly, it'll be in a shed - not sleeping under the stars. All it needs is a decent kennel and bedding and it will be perfectly comfortable.

Soups123

runawaybishop wrote: »

Dont be silly, it'll be in a shed - not sleeping under the stars. All it needs is a decent kennel and bedding and it will be perfectly comfortable.

Do you have a dog kept in the house?

DBB

So, despite it being repeatedly pointed out that the cold/elements are not anywhere near as big a problem as social isolation and consequent anxiety-related behavioural problems, you're still focussing on the lesser problem?
Throw as many coats as you want on a dog, give him a super-duper insulated kennel. Lovely. But if a dog is left alone for long periods, none of these are of any use to him.
I think we can assume that op will ensure the dog's physical comfort is catered for, so arguing as to how warm the dog will be, or how the dog will acclimatise, is surely redundant?

Gael23

I wouldn't do this. Dogs in particular are very social animals and need lots of human contact. I don't agree with living outdoors at all but particularly not if it has already been living inside.

runawaybishop

Soups123 wrote: »

Do you have a dog kept in the house?

What have my dogs got to do with this OPs issue? His dog will be fine in the shed, physical comfort isnt the issue.

Assassins Creed

The landlords stated that the dog must not be kept in the house. If the op as some suggested lets the dog stay in the house and the landlord finds out, they face at the very least hassle from the landlord. At worst the tenancy agreement would be broken, leaving the op with "possibly", a vacation date and a non refundable deposit.