Jumps horses sales prices

efc67

rossom wrote: »

Hope he is a gooden for you! Guessing he'll go the P2P route as well yeah? Who is the dam? I'll keep an eye out for him!

Yeah run in 4y/o maiden p2p....hopefully a win then sales......and the Dam is "Great Days"......yeah fingers crossed....no better buzz than watching your horse win a race

rossom

efc67 wrote: »

Yeah run in 4y/o maiden p2p....hopefully a win then sales......and the Dam is "Great Days"......yeah fingers crossed....no better buzz than watching your horse win a race

I'm most definitely buying at least one horse when I have the finances available to do so.

Yours is a half brother to Willie Mullins Kerb Appeal who was successful off a mark of 126 when last seen in May 2011 so definitely some hope on the breeding front!

Imhof Tank

rossom wrote: »

Any regrets about selling him efc? Was it just you who owned him or was there a few of you?

@ efc - whatever about mixed feelings on a sale for 50k after the campaign your lad had, would there have been any doubt in your mind if you had been offered 200?

There seems to be a lot of romaticism from Boards posters on this subject which is not reflective of the guys I know in this business in real life who would be thrilled to sell a Cheltenham prospect at the right price.

efc67

Imhof Tank wrote: »

@ efc - whatever about mixed feelings on a sale for 50k after the campaign your lad had, would there have been any doubt in your mind if you had been offered 200?

There seems to be a lot of romaticism from Boards posters on this subject which is not reflective of the guys I know in this business in real life who would be thrilled to sell a Cheltenham prospect at the right price.

Not sure i understand you....going into the sale we had a reserve of 35k sterling...if we didnt get that we would have brought him home and raced him in a winners of 1 and put him back in the sales.............the p2p trainers that i know....and there are a good few where i live in Wexford...are all sellers...its their livelyhood.....its what puts food on the table.....everyone would love a Cheltenham winner...........and down the line i will have a horse that will run under rules.....but at the moment its about making cash

Imhof Tank

efc67 wrote: »

Not sure i understand you....going into the sale we had a reserve of 35k sterling...if we didnt get that we would have brought him home and raced him in a winners of 1 and put him back in the sales.............the p2p trainers that i know....and there are a good few where i live in Wexford...are all sellers...its their livelyhood.....its what puts food on the table.....everyone would love a Cheltenham winner...........and down the line i will have a horse that will run under rules.....but at the moment its about making cash

Same with the guys I know.

And just to clarify, I thought you said you might possibly have had some niggling regrets about letting him go for 50 odd grand - if he goes on and does well - quite understandably.

My point was I dont think many small PTP owners would have to think twice if they are offered 200 grand. They would be delighted, and wouldnt be any less the "sportsmen" for selling IMO.

efc67

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Same with the guys I know.

And just to clarify, I thought you said you might possibly have had some niggling regrets about letting him go for 50 odd grand - if he goes on and does well - quite understandably.

My point was I dont think many small PTP owners would have to think twice if they are offered 200 grand. They would be delighted, and wouldnt be any less the "sportsmen" for selling IMO.

.



Ah no I think we got a fair price for him..... But I have seen some horses slip through the net... Take for example Monbeg Dude .... Sold for 12,000 after winning p2p... That went way to cheap and I said that at the time.... He then goes onto win the Welsh National

I think some people under estimate how good Irish p2p horses really are. (Except the English like who go mad for them) 1 example would have been St Stephens day .. 21 ex Irish point 2 pointers won across all the cards

Colonel Sanders

efc67

Very interesting to read your experience. I suppose I was thinking about it from the "risk v reward" angle and forgetting that prepping a pointer & selling no matter what happens after is simply the business model of dozens of trainers/owners

nevis7

can i ask efc, what was the cost from the time of purchase until sale.

efc67

nevis7 wrote: »

can i ask efc, what was the cost from the time of purchase until sale.

€10,000 for horse and 14 months @ €800....plus a few vet fees

efc67

If any wants a good insight into p2p trainers....this is a guy i know quite well....and a pure selling stable ...great insight

http://www.p2ptv.ie/?tube=250

nevis7

moyle park...........willie mullins buys for 250,000 tonight

rossom

nevis7 wrote: »

moyle park...........willie mullins buys for 250,000 tonight

Was listening live. 250k could turn out to be a bargain. This tells me one of two things. One, Mullins isn't happy with his current bumper or two he could possibly go straight over hurdles. Happy with the 85s I took for him for the bumper anyways!

SRFC

Blackmail the horse who finished 2nd to it runs in the bumper tomorrow should give us an idea on the form of that race moyle park won,



Todays winner LE VENT D'ANTAN looks a lovely horse well bred grand dam being none other than Pebbles,won pulling a cart today for Liz Doyle who has previously sold on as Young horses AL FEROF AND CHELTENIAN so expect they will recieve big offers for it.


Doyle revealed: "We bought him as a yearling in France and his grandmother is Pebbles – which is very interesting.

"He won a schooling bumper on heavy ground and everyone was wanting to know what he was.

"A group of friends of my sister's, in London, asked me if I had a horse that might end up in Cheltenham, a few years ago, and I said I did, but he was only two at the time and they would have to wait 13 or 14 months on him. They did it and here we are.

"It was a major inconvience for him to come racing today as all he does is eat and sleep. That's good for a Martaline though as some of them can be hot.

"I'd say he'll go straight to Cheltenham and have a racecourse gallop somewhere. He's very mature and forward and wouldn't be like the normal gangly Irish four-year-old. He'll be mature as anything there.

"A better race would suit him and a little better ground. Everything he's done since he arrived in the yard has been exceptional but until they put it in ink you never know. He's done that now.

"He works as well as Cheltenian –he always screamed that he was a good horse – while Al Ferof was quieter."

The gelding looks sure to attract interest from some big owners but Doyle added:- "It's a very enthusiastic syndicate and we'll just enjoy today."


6/1 favourite for the Champion Bumper in a place is laughable.

rossom

I'd expect Blackmail to win tomorrow. Even if he doesn't, I wouldn't be worried as there is no doubt in my mind that Moyle Park is a serious horse.

Colonel Sanders

Someone has hoovered up all the cash on Betfair, albeit small sums.

44 last price matched. I'd a token bet on it at 85 too. Although at 85 a token stake returns far from a token amount.

tipster

id assume twas the riccis bought moyle park

Colonel Sanders

tipster wrote: »

id assume twas the riccis bought moyle park

No idea, he already has Clondaw Court to the forefront of the bumper market

SRFC

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

No idea, he already has Clondaw Court to the forefront of the bumper market

And Faugheen,doubt ricci bought it he likes his french imports maybe Wylie bought it or he might have bought it for Gigginstown serious money for a horse so surely its one of the big owners.

klairondavis

Alan Potts maybe?

Colonel Sanders

Nice boost for the Moyle Park form there

Can't believe I didn't back it...

jimjamcos

Well done on getting that price about Moyle Park Rossom...form looks very very good after that! Hope he goes there for you now!

Colonel Sanders

I'd the princely sum of €12.54 on at 85, pays a grand after commission.

Now all he has to do is run....and win!

Hulk Hands

And here's me thinking the current 16's looks big. Well done lads

sting60

Moyle Park was sold last June for 10k at Goffs in seven months time he is worth 250k after one race.To me this is complete madness but great for the small man.I just cannot get my head around how a horses value can multiply 25 times in one outing.Paul Nicholls was the under bidder and was desperate to get the horse.There is no doubt the aim for Moyle Park is chasing as his mother Lovely Present was placed in a grade 2 chase.

rossom

I am actually gutted for connections of Moyle Park that the sale wasn't today! He'd have gone for an extra 100k after seeing what Blackmail has just done. Moyle Park looks an absolute machine! I would have thought that he'd have to go for the Champion Bumper after that where I am absolutely loving my 85s!

Colonel Sanders

rossom wrote: »

I am actually gutted for connections of Moyle Park that the sale wasn't today! He'd have gone for an extra 100k after seeing what Blackmail has just done. Moyle Park looks an absolute machine! I would have thought that he'd have to go for the Champion Bumper after that where I am absolutely loving my 85s!

When you pointed out he was entered for sale my thinking was he'll go for £200k+ and if he does the owner will surely want to run him

Interesting he's gone to the bumper king. He was clipped by the bookies & backed for small money on Betfair last night after the sale

Imhof Tank

rossom wrote: »

I am actually gutted for connections of Moyle Park that the sale wasn't today! He'd have gone for an extra 100k after seeing what Blackmail has just done. Moyle Park looks an absolute machine! I would have thought that he'd have to go for the Champion Bumper after that where I am absolutely loving my 85s!

Blackmail was visually impressive today but IMO he really had to win that well simply to not devalue the Stephen's Day form.

Id say they were more than happy with their price all in all.

Colonel Sanders

14/1 Moyle Park with the bookies now. 14.5/15.5 on Betfair

jimjamcos

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

14/1 Moyle Park with the bookies now. 14.5/15.5 on Betfair

You think he'll definitely go Bumper?

Colonel Sanders

jimjamcos wrote: »

You think he'll definitely go Bumper?

Can never be 100% but being trained by Mullins & with his price tag & form you'd have to think so

SRFC

Harry Kirk says Moyle park will have just one more run this season and go novice hurdling next season,he is a chaser in the making wouldnt be backing him for the bumper personally dont think he's a chance on just one run in leopardstown getting 7lb off blackmail hardly won by 10 lengths,he was well primed for that race dont be minding the comments saying it was his first time on grass.



Mullins bought a horse off pat martin for a 100k an ex hannon horse who ran 2nd in a bumper at naas good to see a small trainer get a few quid.



Ps.believe Ricci is the new owner of Moyle park.

rossom

SRFC wrote: »

Harry Kirk says Moyle park will have just one more run this season and go novice hurdling next season,he is a chaser in the making wouldnt be backing him for the bumper personally dont think he's a chance on just one run in leopardstown getting 7lb off blackmail hardly won by 10 lengths,he was well primed for that race dont be minding the comments saying it was his first time on grass.



Mullins bought a horse off pat martin for a 100k an ex hannon horse who ran 2nd in a bumper at naas good to see a small trainer get a few quid.



Ps.believe Ricci is the new owner of Moyle park.

He got 7lb off Blackmail when you include the jockey's claim. That isn't the same as what you are implying. It was his debut and Blackmail had already had 2 runs (1 under Rules, 1 in a P2P). To not be impressed by Moyle Park winning very comfortably (travelled by far the best horse in the race and wandered around up the run in) given that he is going to come on truck loads is a load of tripe in my opinion.

I've also seen on one other forum that apparently Faugheen has been sick since Christmas and hence why he hasn't run yet. No clue if he's over it or not yet but the fact (if indeed Ricci bought Moyle Park) he has bought another horse leads me to believe he won't be going to Cheltenham.

SRFC

rossom wrote: »

He got 7lb off Blackmail when you include the jockey's claim. That isn't the same as what you are implying. It was his debut and Blackmail had already had 2 runs (1 under Rules, 1 in a P2P). To not be impressed by Moyle Park winning very comfortably (travelled by far the best horse in the race and wandered around up the run in) given that he is going to come on truck loads is a load of tripe in my opinion.

I've also seen on one other forum that apparently Faugheen has been sick since Christmas and hence why he hasn't run yet. No clue if he's over it or not yet but the fact (if indeed Ricci bought Moyle Park) he has bought another horse leads me to believe he won't be going to Cheltenham.

How can my perception be tripe its opinion :rolleyes: I dont think hes worth 250k time will tell but I personally wasnt impressed as some people seem to be,Blackmail was beaten around Navan easily by ted walsh's horse who union dues destroyed so if you want to argue form lines theres one for ya,Clondaw court for ricci will be going for the bumper and is a high class animal.

hucklebuck

jimjamcos wrote: »

You think he'll definitely go Bumper?

14's is available with VC Bet, if he doesn't run you get your stake back as a free bet

Johner

efc67 wrote: »

The 2nd horse was called Hellorboston...he won a p2p maiden 3 weeks later, was then sold to D McCain............he made his debut on the track at Sedgefield on St Stephens day and won by 14 lengths............The 3rd horse Sergeant Matte....went on to win his maiden p2p in December....he hasn't gone under rules yet..........the 4th horse was Rolling Maul....he ran once again in a p2p and was beaten 2 lengths second.............all good horses like....you really should go along to a p2p....where you might have some horses making up the numbers...in the 4y/o maidens, you will see some quality young horses........Anyways my horse was called "Four Shuck Men"....he is in training with Jamie Snowden over in England, and he hasn't ran yet....but when he does i will be having a big punt on him....a really honest horse ;-0

Hellorboston won again very nicely. Can't wait to see Four Shuck Men run now, probably be a very short price for its debut after what Hellorboston has done.

rossom

Johner wrote: »

Hellorboston won again very nicely. Can't wait to see Four Shuck Men run now, probably be a very short price for its debut after what Hellorboston has done.

The 3rd Sergeant Mattie is should be out with in a week in a Bumper for Charlie Longsden. It could easily be a P2P worth following stringently.

efc67

rossom wrote: »

The 3rd Sergeant Mattie is should be out with in a week in a Bumper for Charlie Longsden. It could easily be a P2P worth following stringently.

Keep my eye out for him..........Hellorboston looks a tidy horse though

rossom

efc67 wrote: »

Keep my eye out for him..........Hellorboston looks a tidy horse though

He certainly does. Your fella is still down as for sale on Snowden's site. Quite tempted to make an inquiry and see what sort of cash they are looking for him.

efc67

rossom wrote: »

He certainly does. Your fella is still down as for sale on Snowden's site. Quite tempted to make an inquiry and see what sort of cash they are looking for him.

Yeah i can't believe no one has picked him up yet....Even Hellorbostons run today would have done him no harm...............................I did make a inquiry about him....and he told me it was sold for £42,000 at the sales.......but i do know there will be agents fees on top of that.....that's how they make their money

rossom

efc67 wrote: »

Yeah i can't believe no one has picked him up yet....Even Hellorbostons run today would have done him no harm...............................I did make a inquiry about him....and he told me it was sold for £42,000 at the sales.......but i do know there will be agents fees on top of that.....that's how they make their money

At least they aren't trying to cod you about the sales price paid! I wonder if a proviso of the sale is that you had to keep him with Snowden (presume it is). If I had that sort of cash lying around I certainly think there are far worse race horses you could buy for that cash.

hucklebuck

efc67 wrote: »

Yeah i can't believe no one has picked him up yet....Even Hellorbostons run today would have done him no harm...............................I did make a inquiry about him....and he told me it was sold for £42,000 at the sales.......but i do know there will be agents fees on top of that.....that's how they make their money

42k looks a song given how Hellorboston has won twice since.

efc67

hucklebuck wrote: »

42k looks a song given how Hellorboston has won twice since.

If you think that looks a song......Hellorboston was in the same sales as our fella.......he was sold for £16,000

rossom

Four Shuck Men declared for a Conditional Jockey/Amateur Riders Bumper at Fontwell on the 14th.

eljoker

The grey monk looks good and at 210k a steal. He came 2nd to a top class horse of thomas gibneys

SRFC

eljoker wrote: »

The grey monk looks good and at 210k a steal. He came 2nd to a top class horse of thomas gibneys

A steal? he's absolutely useless couldnt win one of the worst maiden hurdles ive seen all season last week obviously he's a chaser but at 210k he is no steal.

eljoker

You obviously haven't seen many maiden hurdles this season.You will see how good that winner is soon enough. I heard his jumping is breath taking over fences

eljoker

I was referring to the grey monks jumping

UrbanSea

I find it difficult to class nearly any NH horse sold for that kind of money to be a ''steal''. Bearing in mind to make back that money he'd need to win several grade 1 hurdles, unless they were something like the Champion or went on to win a National or Gold Cup.

Just how many of these horses that sell at 200k plus earn that back? 10%? Less?

SRFC

eljoker wrote: »

You obviously haven't seen many maiden hurdles this season.You will see how good that winner is soon enough. I heard his jumping is breath taking over fences

Gibneys is not good sure it was tailed off 4th at 33/1 in leopardstown only for a horse running out he'd a been 5th and still tailed off,

The 3rd horse in grey monks 2nd at fairhouse was previously beaten twice once at 50/1 and pulled up at 20/1 he's an absolute rag.


The 4th horse is one of the worse horses in Willie Mullins yard UN BEAU ROMAN,he won a few micky mouse bumpers for half breeds in france and then came to tramore and was tailed off 27 length's behing waydownsouth at 8/11.


The 5th horse was 4th in a 4 horse race previously so thats enough said on him,


the 6th horse of noel meades is absolutely useless whose been beaten 60 length's in two races over hurdles ran 51 length's behind fatcatinthehat at leopardstown,



Now I go racing a lot and im telling you now that was possible one of the weakest maidens all season and grey monk couldnt win it so he wont be doing anything over hurdles anyways,the evidence above is clear how bad a race it was sure I backed grey monk by default because the rest you couldnt back.

sting60

RichieLawlessness wrote: »

I find it difficult to class nearly any NH horse sold for that kind of money to be a ''steal''. Bearing in mind to make back that money he'd need to win several grade 1 hurdles, unless they were something like the Champion or went on to win a National or Gold Cup.

Just how many of these horses that sell at 200k plus earn that back? 10%? Less?

I cannot better that post and totally agree.I have come to the conclusion that the big owners/trainers have serious big egos and try to outbid each other when a young horse becomes available as was seen recently when Mullins and Nicholls went toe to toe for Moyle Park.As you have pointed out prize money cannot make up the return in investment.