New shower installation

mammu · 10-01-2013 12:33pm #1

Hi everyone,

I have a problem here. We bought new Creda 850DL 8.5kW Electric Shower

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/8329769/Trail/searchtext%3EELECTRIC+SHOWER.htm#tabrev

and the reason for selecting this one is we live in a hard water area and this has anti scale built in and we were tight on money so the price was also affordable currently.

Now, problem is, it seems to take power in also water, but it doesn't start, what should we check in here? What may be wrong? When switched on, just one red light lights up, it makes sound like starts and then it dies.

Any advice please?

Thanks

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 10-01-2013 3:03pm

Did you follow the commisioning procedure as per the manual?Is it connected too main's or tank water?

mammu · 10-01-2013 4:17pm

Thanks for reply. It is connected to the main´s, as was previous electric shower (some-kind of Mira shower) and installed as instruction says.

Bruthal · 10-01-2013 4:30pm

Who actually installed it, did the electrical connections etc?

Are all connections tight?

Was the water gate valve turned back on after the new shower replaced old, assuming there was a dedicated one on the t off to the existing shower?

mammu · 10-01-2013 4:53pm

Water gate valve is turned on, electrical connections seems to be very tight, it suppose to be easy to install, and as manual says, it is easy to install, but something seems to be wrong. The only light that lights up is power light, rest of them just dead.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 10-01-2013 6:29pm

Ive said before and ill say again all of these devices have have a sticker on them that says only too be installed by a trained professional!Not just some jack of all trades!

Did an electrician do the wiring?You couldnt have carried out the commisioning prodcedure if there's no water coming threw it either

DublinDilbert · 10-01-2013 7:03pm

Do you have to bleed/prime the pump on these? I know some showers you need to.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 10-01-2013 7:07pm

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Do you have to bleed/prime the pump on these? I know some showers you need to.

No there a mains shower. No Pump.

Bruthal · 10-01-2013 7:13pm

Is there any locking screw that needs to be removed on this particular one during commissioning? Im more familiar with the t-90 ones myself.

But either way, electric showers are not an easy install for the DIY enthusiast, and problems are easy to get to the bottom of, for a person competent in such installations, whether it be a problem with the install, or the shower unit itself.

Robbie7730

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 10-01-2013 7:31pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Is there any locking screw that needs to be removed on this particular one during commissioning? Im more familiar with the t-90 ones myself.

But either way, electric showers are not an easy install for the DIY enthusiast, and problems are easy to get to the bottom of, for a person competent in such installations, whether it be a problem with the install, or the shower unit itself.

No theres no screw on the element selector switch as with the t-90 and even if there was that doesnt explain why there's no water coming threw as if the selector switch was screwed in position it would be screwed in the cold position and water would still flow

Bruthal · 10-01-2013 8:27pm

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

No theres no screw on the element selector switch as with the t-90 and even if there was that doesnt explain why there's no water coming threw as if the selector switch was screwed in position it would be screwed in the cold position and water would still flow

I was more thinking along the lines of the flow/temp dial being stuck at minimum, which would have a very low flow rate on most showers.

A mains fed one would seem to have little to be wrong. One it has its mains water supply, gate valves open, no blockages in the water supply/filter and power to the solenoid when the start button is pressed, it should work.

Again, someone who is any way competent with these showers, will find the problem easily enough when there to check it out.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 11-01-2013 12:31am

Bruthal wrote: »

I was more thinking along the lines of the flow/temp dial being stuck at minimum, which would have a very low flow rate on most showers.

A mains fed one would seem to have little to be wrong. One it has its mains water supply, gate valves open, no blockages in the water supply/filter and power to the solenoid when the start button is pressed, it should work.

Again, someone who is any way competent with these showers, will find the problem easily enough when there to check it out.

Well seen as they havent said who installed the shower and said two or three times it said easy too install i dont think they can confirm the solenoid valve is energising when the start button is held.Might be main stat etc but not a DIY repair.
What area are you in mammu?

dodzy · 11-01-2013 9:12am

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

Ive said before and ill say again all of these devices have have a sticker on them that says only too be installed by a trained professional!Not just some jack of all trades!

Another one :rolleyes:

Replacing a shower is not bloody rocket science for anyone who is a competent DIY person.

Bruthal · 11-01-2013 11:04am

dodzy wrote: »

Another one :rolleyes:

Replacing a shower is not bloody rocket science for anyone who is a competent DIY person.

The competent DIY`r will just replace the shower, but rarely check the circuit supplying it even for suitable size of cable, rarely if ever, check the RCD, check the connections at the MCB board, and at the shower isolator, none of which are rocket science either.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 11-01-2013 12:05pm

dodzy wrote: »

Another one :rolleyes:

Replacing a shower is not bloody rocket science for anyone who is a competent DIY person.

Ha ha ha!!Really??

I take it so your a competent DIY person?Why dont you resolve the issue here for the OP so?

As Bruthal said most often the biggest issue in changing a shower is the general electric's in the house,bonding issue's etc etc.

You'd be horrified at some job's ive gone too after a "compentent DIY'er" changed the shower and i was called after over other issue's!

dodzy · 11-01-2013 4:40pm

MrMac84 wrote: »

Ha ha ha!!Really??

I take it so your a competent DIY person?Why dont you resolve the issue here for the OP so?

As Bruthal said most often the biggest issue in changing a shower is the general electric's in the house,bonding issue's etc etc.

You'd be horrified at some job's ive gone too after a "compentent DIY'er" changed the shower and i was called after over other issue's!

Slow down there MrMac. My point is simply that swapping out a shower is not a job which is above a competent DIY person IMO. Too many posts on these forums where the first line of reply is " dont touch it / your'e not competent / not registered / bla bla bla, without offering any actual advice.

I would be very comfortable swapping out / installing a shower and I am not a registered plumber / electrician. If I post a question for advice on the operation of a unit, the response "if you have to ask, then you shouldn't be doing it" wears itself out after a while.

If you take care in your work, are comfortable in the vacinity of electrics & plumbing, observe common sense in relation to isolation of power / water, refer to installation instructions for installation & comissioning details and carry out your work with care and attention, then there is absolutely no reason a DIY person could not complete this task. In short, if you are worried at all about the installation, then don't take it on.

Oh, and for whats it worth, I've seen some botch work by certified professionals. Embarrasing stuff.

@OP. As has been suggested, ensure electrical connections are correctly fitted & TIGHT.

Not familiar with this model but potentially airlocked ? Have you allowed water to flow from the 1/2 supply right at the shower connection point prior to final fitting to unit?

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 11-01-2013 5:12pm

dodzy wrote: »

Slow down there MrMac. My point is simply that swapping out a shower is not a job which is above a competent DIY person IMO. Too many posts on these forums where the first line of reply is " dont touch it / your'e not competent / not registered / bla bla bla, without offering any actual advice.

I would be very comfortable swapping out / installing a shower and I am not a registered plumber / electrician. If I post a question for advice on the operation of a unit, the response "if you have to ask, then you shouldn't be doing it" wears itself out after a while.

If you take care in your work, are comfortable in the vacinity of electrics & plumbing, observe common sense in relation to isolation of power / water, refer to installation instructions for installation & comissioning details and carry out your work with care and attention, then there is absolutely no reason a DIY person could not complete this task. In short, if you are worried at all about the installation, then don't take it on.

Oh, and for whats it worth, I've seen some botch work by certified professionals. Embarrasing stuff.

@OP. As has been suggested, ensure electrical connections are correctly fitted & TIGHT.

Not familiar with this model but potentially airlocked ? Have you allowed water to flow from the 1/2 supply right at the shower connection point prior to final fitting to unit?

And can you explain too me so how a competent DIY person would know if the pipe used too feed the shower is installed correctly or if the fuse/mcb/rcb/rcbo is the correct size or if the cable has the correct polarity or if the fuseboard is upto date too take the new shower or if the bonding of the house is upto date cuz i would LOVE too know how a person who "would be very comfortable swapping out / installing a shower and I am not a registered plumber / electrician. is able too tell all this cuz i must have been wasting my time spending 4 years with FAS learning about this.

dodzy · 11-01-2013 6:51pm

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

And can you explain too me so how a competent DIY person would know if the pipe used too feed the shower is installed correctly or if the fuse/mcb/rcb/rcbo is the correct size or if the cable has the correct polarity or if the fuseboard is upto date too take the new shower or if the bonding of the house is upto date cuz i would LOVE too know how a person who "would be very comfortable swapping out / installing a shower and I am not a registered plumber / electrician. is able too tell all this cuz i must have been wasting my time spending 4 years with FAS learning about this.

Google

No, but seriously, particularly in relation to swapping out a like for like ( or similar ) is not as difficult as you are making out. I ran 10mm2 approx 12mtrs from fuse board to shower unit with 45Amp RCBO. Drained the tank in the attic. Drilled a 17mm hole in same. Fitted approx 4mtrs of 1/2" qualpax to shower wall. Connected up everything, release air from system and running fine. The OPs job is changing; not full installation. Big difference.

I've replaced a few ( mainly old Triton T90si ) with new models for family / friends and it is NOT a difficult job. Surely you cannot say this task is above a competent DIY person ?

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 11-01-2013 7:11pm

dodzy wrote: »

Google

No, but seriously, particularly in relation to swapping out a like for like ( or similar ) is not as difficult as you are making out. I ran 10mm2 approx 12mtrs from fuse board to shower unit with 45Amp RCBO. Drained the tank in the attic. Drilled a 17mm hole in same. Fitted approx 4mtrs of 1/2" qualpax to shower wall. Connected up everything, release air from system and running fine. The OPs job is changing; not full installation. Big difference.

I've replaced a few ( mainly old Triton T90si ) with new models for family / friends and it is NOT a difficult job. Surely you cannot say this task is above a competent DIY person ?

And in each one of those did you check for correct earthing and bonding of the hotpress,bath etc?Did you check the size of the main's tails too support the new shower?Seen as you were the "expert" who replaced the shower say there was a fault and a person was killed in the shower (as happened in Blackrock 12 years ago) would you feel comfortable on the stand explaining too the Judge where you gained your expertise?

Also you ran 10mm2 cable too shower?No pull cord or local isolation switch?Im also interested in where you fed the RCBO from?Did you check the main fuse was a 63 amp fuse?

mammu · 11-01-2013 8:14pm

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

Well seen as they havent said who installed the shower and said two or three times it said easy too install i dont think they can confirm the solenoid valve is energising when the start button is held.Might be main stat etc but not a DIY repair.
What area are you in mammu?

Im in Portlaoise..however, talking about installing, then yes my husband did it, he is not professional but has done it few times before without any problems. Now seems, that if this shower is broken or faulty, we can not swap it anymore in the shop, because it had to be installed by professional and another thing is who says anyway if it is faulty at all or broken? So no choice, we must call out somekind of professional..

dodzy · 12-01-2013 9:50am

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

And in each one of those did you check for correct earthing and bonding of the hotpress,bath etc?Did you check the size of the main's tails too support the new shower?Seen as you were the "expert" who replaced the shower say there was a fault and a person was killed in the shower (as happened in Blackrock 12 years ago) would you feel comfortable on the stand explaining too the Judge where you gained your expertise?

Also you ran 10mm2 cable too shower?No pull cord or local isolation switch?Im also interested in where you fed the RCBO from?Did you check the main fuse was a 63 amp fuse?

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. 10sq - yes
5. Yes. Double pole isolator switch
6. ?
7. Yes - 63A

Anyway, you are like a dog with a bone now, so I'll leave it. You are an obviously well trained FÁS sparks, and as such, I feel could have been more helpful to the OP.

@OP. I think it is fair to assume that the previously installed Mira mains fed unit was of a similar rating 8.5kw to the Creda unit. Live, neutral, earth and water supply. Thats it. If you believe it to be faulty, just rebox it and bring it back to Argos. They will change it, no problem. They will NOT give you the 3rd degree in relation to who fitted the unit. They WILL replace it.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 12-01-2013 11:25am

dodzy wrote: »

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. 10sq - yes
5. Yes. Double pole isolator switch
6. ?
7. Yes - 63A

Anyway, you are like a dog with a bone now, so I'll leave it. You are an obviously well trained FÁS sparks, and as such, I feel could have been more helpful to the OP.

Like a dog with a bone?No!

What i am tho is extremly annoyed at gangsters like you running around thinking "ah sure this is easy" It's people like you who get innocent people killed!The step's i listed in my last post are not just me showing off that im a FAS trained spark's.They are THE FIRST THING you must check BEFORE carrying out ANY work in realation too an electric shower!

The fact you dont even understand the question about how you fed the RCBO is another extremly worrying point.Ill put it in layman's terms so you might understand.Did you feed it from the lighting circuit or the socket or do you even know the difference?

And @ OP ive an extremley good idea whats wrong with your shower (if any mod wants too PM to ask me ill explain too them) and have come across this problem many time's before in similar model's and just exchanging the shower for a different one you could easyily run into this problem again as it occur's during installation.

coxyboy · 12-01-2013 11:34am

And if someone thinks they know whats wrong would they not help out OP.

Bruthal · 12-01-2013 12:42pm

coxyboy wrote: »

And if someone thinks they know whats wrong would they not help out OP.

There have been suggestions given, here are some possibilities again,

Gate valve not opened after refit.

Blockage in water supply (unlikely)

Problem with power supply to shower, bad connection etc.

Faulty shower, (from a faulty solenoid valve, or internal wiring connection bad or a wire not connected, faulty start button, clogged filter), all of which are easily tested by someone that is familiar with the workings of a shower, and with a multimeter.

Mains pressure dropped into house (unlikely the problem, but could cause problems if has dropped)

EURATS · 12-01-2013 1:08pm

Bruthal wrote: »

There have been suggestions given, here are some possibilities again,

Gate valve not opened after refit.

Blockage in water supply ([SIZE="1"]unlikely[/SIZE])

Problem with power supply to shower, bad connection etc.

Faulty shower, ([SIZE="1"]from a faulty solenoid valve, or internal wiring connection bad or a wire not connected, faulty start button, clogged filter[/SIZE]), all of which are easily tested by someone that is familiar with the workings of a shower, and with a multimeter.

Mains pressure dropped into house ([SIZE="1"]unlikely the problem, but could cause problems if has dropped[/SIZE])

If it was a straight swap and commissioning procedure adhered to correctly...box it up and bring it back. Wouldn't be the first faulty appliance to come from Argos(or any other shop)

Bruthal · 12-01-2013 1:56pm

EURATS wrote: »

If it was a straight swap and commissioning procedure adhered to correctly...box it up and bring it back.

Correct commissioning wouldnt work if there was for example, a bad connection in the supply to the shower, or a problem with the water supply.

Wouldn't be the first faulty appliance to come from Argos(or any other shop)

Well if I was installing it, Id do the tests. No point bringing back if a spade (as example) is simply disconnected from its terminal, or similar.

It possibly/probably is a problem in the shower. Id test and find. For the handyman with not much understanding of shower workings, its put up, doesnt work, take down, replace. And hope the problem was indeed the shower.

But either way, suggestions are put up, including just take down and replace. The OP can decide based on all suggestions.

EURATS · 12-01-2013 4:08pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Correct commissioning wouldnt work if there was for example, a bad connection in the supply to the shower, or a problem with the water supply.

Well if I was installing it, Id do the tests. No point bringing back if a spade ([SIZE="1"]as example[/SIZE]) is simply disconnected from its terminal, or similar.

It possibly/probably is a problem in the shower. Id test and find. For the handyman with not much understanding of shower workings, its put up, doesnt work, take down, replace. And hope the problem was indeed the shower.

But either way, suggestions are put up, including just take down and replace. The OP can decide based on all suggestions.

To be honest..if the op had any clue(I suspect he does) he would have tested the water supply when the unit was out if there was any suspicions in relation to it.
In relation to the power supply..he can check connections for piece of mind but I have my suspicions that the supply isn't the issue.

In relation to the unit itself..the op should check for obvious loose connections but apart from that..box it up an bring it back.

The shower should only require being plumbed up, connected for power..and then the commissioning. Any issues with the shower itself...back to the shop..not repairs.

dodzy · 12-01-2013 5:33pm

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

And @ OP ive an extremley good idea whats wrong with your shower (if any mod wants too PM to ask me ill explain too them) and have come across this problem many time's before in similar model's and just exchanging the shower for a different one you could easyily run into this problem again as it occur's during installation.

Why the secrecy ? Share the knowledge as it is obviously an easy fix if you have come across it many times before. No need for PMs.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 12-01-2013 7:35pm

dodzy wrote: »

Why the secrecy ? Share the knowledge as it is obviously an easy fix if you have come across it many times before. No need for PMs.

Im a professional hence why ive encountered it many time's.If any one thinks im lieing then a mod can PM me and ill explain it to them.But im not going too post up how it can be resolved here and have gangster's like you running around tomorow telling people you can fix electric shower's and getting someone hurt.Either yourself or a "customer"

EURATS · 12-01-2013 8:32pm

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

Im a professional hence why ive encountered it many time's.If any one thinks im lieing then a mod can PM me and ill explain it to them.But im not going too post up how it can be resolved here and have gangster's like you running around tomorow telling people you can fix electric shower's and getting someone hurt.Either yourself or a "customer"

Gangsters? That's more than a little over the top. Care to pm me what u think the issue is?

A new shower shouldn't need to be "fixed".

M cebee · 12-01-2013 8:43pm

EURATS wrote: »

Gangsters? That's more than a little over the top. Care to pm me what u think the issue is?

A new shower shouldn't need to be "fixed".

you can't expect him to make this info public
the diagnostics and software for these showers cost a fortune

New shower installation

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