New shower installation

EURATS

M cebee wrote: »

you can't expect him to make this info public
the diagnostics and software for these showers cost a fortune

Ur having a laugh.

I don't actually need this "INFO" as I have never needed "software" or "diagnostics" to get a new shower up and running.

dodzy

MrMac84 wrote: »

Im a professional hence why ive encountered it many time's.If any one thinks im lieing then a mod can PM me and ill explain it to them.But im not going too post up how it can be resolved here and have gangster's like you running around tomorow telling people you can fix electric shower's and getting someone hurt.Either yourself or a "customer"

Get a grip FFS. You are talking pure sh1te and you know it. You're just one of these "professionals" that only post the same crap time after time. " if you are not certifed, then dont touch it, you haven't got a clue, etc".

Post the fix for the OP. You might be surprised what some gangsters are capable of.

dodzy

EURATS wrote: »

Ur having a laugh.

I don't actually need this "INFO" as I have never needed "software" or "diagnostics" to get a new shower up and running.

Mceebee was taking the piss, I wager

EURATS

dodzy wrote: »

Mceebee was taking the piss, I wager

Well is hard to know any more considering the mystery shower solutions being spouted

cast_iron

dodzy wrote: »

GYou're just one of these "professionals" that only post the same crap time after time. " if you are not certifed, then dont touch it, you haven't got a clue, etc".

To be fair, people might well "have a clue", but that can often be the problem.

If the job is just a swap like for like old and new shower, then the DIYer with a bit of knowledge will probably manage a shower swap quite well. They are not that difficult a job to do.

However, just because the customer "just wants the old shower swapped for a new one", doesn't mean that that is a safe thing to do and just walk away thinking you've done a grand job.

While MrMac might appear a bit OTT, most of the above questions you answered no to really should be checked when installing a new shower, whether the customer asked for it or not. The customer should be advised if anything needs seeing to. Newer showers can draw alot more current and require more rigorous safety protection than back in the day when they were originally wired up and fitted.

Knowing/checking that the job is not just a straight swap is where only the professional will usually beat the DIYer hands down (and why it is usually advised), even though the DIYer might well do a better job of "the straight swap".

Bruthal

dodzy wrote: »

Oh, and for whats it worth, I've seen some botch work by certified professionals. Embarrasing stuff.

Embarrassing for who? Hardly the competent ones.

Not familiar with this model but potentially airlocked?

Be doing well to see airlocks on a mains fed supply if the dynamic pressure is adequate to properly operate the shower. Maybe you were thinking it might be a tank fed one, which can have that problem alright.

hufpc8w3adnk65

cast_iron wrote: »

To be fair, people might well "have a clue", but that can often be the problem.

If the job is just a swap like for like old and new shower, then the DIYer with a bit of knowledge will probably manage a shower swap quite well. They are not that difficult a job to do.

However, just because the customer "just wants the old shower swapped for a new one", doesn't mean that that is a safe thing to do and just walk away thinking you've done a grand job.

While MrMac might appear a bit OTT, most of the above questions you answered no to really should be checked when installing a new shower, whether the customer asked for it or not. The customer should be advised if anything needs seeing to. Newer showers can draw alot more current and require more rigorous safety protection than back in the day when they were originally wired up and fitted.

Knowing/checking that the job is not just a straight swap is where only the professional will usually beat the DIYer hands down (and why it is usually advised), even though the DIYer might well do a better job of "the straight swap".

Thanks cast_iron

If you had an old 6kw shower in your house and some Handy Man fitted a 9.5kw and done no upgrades that would be ok so would it?These RULES and REGULATIONS arent just there for the craic.They are in place too save live's.The above mentioned questions need too asked and answered BEFORE the shower is replaced.If you are not competent enough too answer these questions then you dont belong next or near the job!

@EURATS If you think im talking **** then so be it.That's your opinion.But people should read my post's correctly before attacking me what i said was

And @ OP ive an extremley good idea whats wrong with your shower (if any mod wants too PM to ask me ill explain too them) and have come across this problem many time's before in similar model's and just exchanging the shower for a different one you could easyily run into this problem again as it occur's during installation.

The problem with this shower in my opinion occured during the installation.If they get a replacement shower the could easyily occur again.

Bruthal

EURATS wrote: »

To be honest..if the op had any clue(I suspect he does) he would have tested the water supply when the unit was out if there was any suspicions in relation to it.
In relation to the power supply..he can check connections for piece of mind but I have my suspicions that the supply isn't the issue.

In relation to the unit itself..the op should check for obvious loose connections but apart from that..box it up an bring it back.

The shower should only require being plumbed up, connected for power..and then the commissioning. Any issues with the shower itself...back to the shop..not repairs.

If the op does know much about the workings of showers, then they will find diagnosing the problem fairly simple.

But the op asked a question, and posters gave some answers.

Maybe he let a big lump of bosswhite into the piping, or kinked it:D

uncle betty

MrMac84 wrote: »

And can you explain too me so how a competent DIY person would know if the pipe used too feed the shower is installed correctly or if the fuse/mcb/rcb/rcbo is the correct size or if the cable has the correct polarity or if the fuseboard is upto date too take the new shower or if the bonding of the house is upto date cuz i would LOVE too know how a person who "would be very comfortable swapping out / installing a shower and I am not a registered plumber / electrician. is able too tell all this cuz i must have been wasting my time spending 4 years with FAS learning about this.

I'm not out of FAS that long and there was no mention of a shower installation at any stage. Not in theory, and not in the practical.

So you didn't spend four years learning about that in any case. And if you didn't do that, I highly doubt you got into the size of pipe used to feed the shower.

And by the way, what does this mean ?

The fact you dont even understand the question about how you fed the RCBO is another extremly worrying point.Ill put it in layman's terms so you might understand.Did you feed it from the lighting circuit or the socket or do you even know the difference?

IS that really what you wanted to say, layman's terms or not ?

I think you have a bit of an attitude problem to be honest.

EURATS

uncle betty wrote: »

I'm not out of FAS that long and there was no mention of a shower installation at any stage. Not in theory, and not in the practical.

So you didn't spend four years learning about that in any case. And if you didn't do that, I highly doubt you got into the size of pipe used to feed the shower.

I think you have a bit of an attitude problem to be honest.

Well said.

Such a magical mystery tour..is laughable and ignorant.

The man has an airlock, not enough pressure or a bollox'd shower.


If its an airlock, there should be a bleed valve on the unit. Open it a little(careful) until u hear a hiss and get water. Close it up and problem solved.
If its a lack of pressure..you will need to change to tank fed pumped shower.

hufpc8w3adnk65

uncle betty wrote: »

I'm not out of FAS that long and there was no mention of a shower installation at any stage Not in theory, and not in the practical.

So you didn't spend four years learning about that in any case. And if you didn't do that, I highly doubt you got into the size of pipe used to feed the shower.

And by the way, what does this mean ?



IS that really what you wanted to say ?

I think you have a bit of an attitude problem to be honest.

So bonding never came up?Correct tails on consumer unit never came up? Where too take the supply in a consumer unit for a large draw i.e cooker's and shower's never came up?Ye didnt terminate 6mm2 or 10mm2 cables correctly?

Jesus alot has changed so in FAS since i quailified.Cuz those things were part of my course and all apply too shower's

Yes i have an attitude towards people who think they can do my job as good as me (or any other electrician for that matter)Just because an electrical item works doesnt mean it's done correctly or safely.

hufpc8w3adnk65

EURATS wrote: »

Well said.

Such a magical mystery tour..is laughable and ignorant.

The man has an airlock or a bollox'd shower.


If its an airlock(which it is), there should be a bleed valve on the unit. Open it a little(careful) until u hear a hiss and get water. Close it up and problem solved.

There's no bleed valve on those shower's!

Bruthal

EURATS wrote: »

If its an airlock(which it is), there should be a bleed valve on the unit.

No bleed valve needed on a mains fed shower, so I doubt that one has one.

They are needed on pump showers because without it, the pump will be running dry when first turned on.

The mains water shower simply opens the solenoid valve when it is turned on, and the mains pressure will force any air through, with no worry of dry running of any pump.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Bruthal wrote: »

No bleed valve needed on a mains fed shower, so I doubt that one has one.

Best not get on the lad's back's.Their expert's sure.Were spouting non sence about rules and regulation's and things that will slow them down.
The mira sport is the only mains shower i can think of off hand with a bleed valve

uncle betty

MrMac84 wrote: »

So bonding never came up?Correct tails on consumer unit never came up? Where too take the supply in a consumer unit for a large draw i.e cooker's and shower's never came up?Ye didnt terminate 6mm2 or 10mm2 cables correctly?

Jesus alot has changed so in FAS since i quailified.Cuz those things were part of my course and all apply too shower's

Yes i have an attitude towards people who think they can do my job as good as me (or any other electrician for that matter)Just because an electrical item works doesnt mean it's done correctly or safely.

What's wrong with you ? Bonding, cookers, termination ? ? ?

My post was not complicated in any way, it was very clear as regards what I was referring to.

I don't think I made any reference to bonding whatsoever. Or cookers. Or termination of cables.

As for my course, no, nothing came up about whether I should connect an RCBO to a light, or a socket ;-)

I'm sure that showers aren't detailed anywhere in my module books, because it's such an obvious omission.

I must check the domestic installation diagram to see if there's even a shower circuit included in it.

In fact, I'd have to check my notes to see whether RCBO's are mentioned at all in them.

At this stage, you aren't getting the job of going in there and sorting it out anyway. It isn't going to be your problem, no more than it is mine, if someone gets hurt.

So why not either give the OP the fix they seek, or else just leave it altogether ?

hufpc8w3adnk65

uncle betty wrote: »

What's wrong with you ? Bonding, cookers, termination ? ? ?

My post was not complicated in any way, it was very clear as regards what I was referring to.

I don't think I made any reference to bonding whatsoever. Or cookers. Or termination of cables.

As for my course, no, nothing came up about whether I should connect an RCBO to a light, or a socket ;-)

I'm sure that showers aren't detailed anywhere in my module books, because it's such an obvious omission.

I must check the domestic installation diagram to see if there's even a shower circuit included in it.

In fact, I'd have to check my notes to see whether RCBO's are mentioned at all in them.

At this stage, you aren't getting the job of going in there and sorting it out anyway. It isn't going to be your problem, no more than it is mine, if someone gets hurt.

So why not either give the OP the fix they seek, or else just leave it altogether ?

And my post's are very clear also.Theres a hell of alot more too a shower then just 3 cables!Hence why were talking about bonding etc etc!
Well if theres no mention of an RCBO in your course notes from phase 2,4&6 then you did a different apprentship too me

EURATS

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

Best not get on the lad's back's.Their expert's sure.Were spouting non sence about rules and regulation's and things that will slow them down.
The mira sport is the only mains shower i can think of off hand with a bleed valve

Well u are such an "expert" that u told him u knew his problem but wouldn't tell him how to sort it. Nothing worse than a unhelpful "expert".

uncle betty

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

And my post's are very clear also.Theres a hell of alot more too a shower then just 3 cables!Hence why were talking about bonding etc etc!
Well if theres no mention of an RCBO in your course notes from phase 2,4&6 then you did a different apprentship too me

What I dislike is your beating me over the head with your little bit of knowledge about bonding, termination and so on - it was totally uncalled for, and condescending.

It'll almost certainly be Phase 2 of course, but if you or anyone else can refer me to the relevant module where RCBO's were detailed, I'd appreciate it.

EDIT - as I thought, there is only definitional mention of RCBO's in the Apprentice Notes (2.2.3, pp 8, 31). The provided diagram on p.36 has no illustration of an RCBO circuit, whether shower or otherwise.

http://www.ecollege.ie/site/liu/electrical_notes/LL223.pdf

dodzy

Aurelia Tender Month wrote: »

We're spouting nonsense about rules and regulations and things that will slow them down. I know how to fix the problem, but I'll be damned if I'm sharing the knowledge I have gained with a few shams who fancy themselves as being DIY competent. I'm gonna keep all that information to myself, and if anybody asks for advice, sure I'll just knock them back with the usual "I'm a qualified and registered sparks and you are not bullsh1t. You would think that this forum is for the sharing of information or something!"

I took the liberty of fixing your post for you.

DELTATIP

Bruthal wrote: »

The competent DIY`r will just replace the shower, but rarely check the circuit supplying it even for suitable size of cable, rarely if ever, check the RCD, check the connections at the MCB board, and at the shower isolator, none of which are rocket science either.

And like wise most if not all electricains wont check either -get off your high horse -

frankmul

http://www.creda-showers.co.uk/media/uploads/559%202323%2064a%20Creda%20950_850DL%20Shank%20and%20Premium%20Accs.pdf

Here's the manual if it helps.

2011

Civil debate, technical advice and discussion is always welcome.
Bickering will result in a ban.

Have a nice day.

2011

Bruthal

DELTATIP wrote: »

And like wise most if not all electricains wont check either -get off your high horse -

So is replacing and walking away, what you would do then?

EURATS

Bruthal wrote: »

So is replacing and walking away, what you would do then?

Replace, TEST and walk away.


How much do you charge to replace a shower?

Bruthal

EURATS wrote: »

Replace, TEST and walk away.

You have already made that clear, since you agree that electricians that carry out proper checks are high horse ones.

But not even a check to ensure that the shower has an RCD?

EURATS

Bruthal wrote: »

You have already made that clear, since you agree that electricians that carry out proper checks are high horse ones.

But not even a check to ensure that the shower has an RCD?

I never mentioned anything about horses..high, low or in between.

I check all that needs to be checked..and it is an RCBO that I would be expecting the circuit to be running off.

Bruthal

EURATS wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about horses..high, low or in between.

You thanked post #51, so I assume you agree with it.

I check all that needs to be checked..

Yes, water flow, and heat. Job done.

and it is an RCBO that I would be expecting the circuit to be running off.

Expecting, and so you assume, but in your rush to get out the door, wouldnt even confirm, which takes a few seconds? Or perhaps, go the extra mile, and press the test button which would add on yet another 5 seconds?

Dont get me wrong, its up to yourself. But my opinion, which is far from infallible, would be to at the very least press the test button and confirm the shower circuit goes off.

EURATS

Bruthal wrote: »

You thanked post #51, so I assume you agree with it.


Yes, water flow, and heat. Job done.

I may agree with it..doesn't mean I said it!!

And as for what my version of "job done" entails...quit jumping to conclusions that suit your agenda(trying to make a standard shower replacement sound like a big job so u can continue to charge extortionate prices)

Bruthal wrote: »

Expecting, and so you assume, but in your rush to get out the door, wouldnt even confirm, which takes a few seconds? Or perhaps, go the extra mile, and press the test button which would add on yet another 5 seconds?

Not sure what this waffle is about. I never rush a job.

Bruthal wrote: »

Dont get me wrong, its up to yourself. But my opinion, which is far from infallible, would be to at the very least press the test button and confirm the shower circuit goes off.

More gobble de gook.

cast_iron

EURATS wrote: »

And as for what my version of "job done" entails...quit jumping to conclusions that suit your agenda(trying to make a standard shower replacement sound like a big job so u can continue to charge extortionate prices)

Nobody has mentioned doing/charging for anything that is not required. Many of the simple checks would not take 5 mins in all.

What checks would you perform?

2011

I think this thread has run it's course.

If anyone has anything constructive to add please PM me.