Fallout 4

oldrnwisr

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Stealth has always been weird in these games. Like in Skyrim and Oblivion were an enemy doesn't cop that you are there despite them looking like a human pin cushion with all the arrows in their head.

I'm not sure that the problem is confined to Bethesda. Ubisoft has got the same issues. Take Far Cry 4, for example. I managed to get all outposts and fortresses liberated undetected because of the crappy AI. So a guard sees his buddy's brain splattered across a wall right in front of him, freaks out, runs around for a few minutes looking for someone and then goes back to sit down and have a sleep. I think it's a limitation of AI in general at the moment.

Kirby

oldrnwisr wrote: »

I'm not sure that the problem is confined to Bethesda. Ubisoft has got the same issues. Take Far Cry 4, for example. I managed to get all outposts and fortresses liberated undetected because of the crappy AI. So a guard sees his buddy's brain splattered across a wall right in front of him, freaks out, runs around for a few minutes looking for someone and then goes back to sit down and have a sleep. I think it's a limitation of AI in general at the moment.

It's the limitation of the genre. If your game comprises of a single room, you can create an incredibly realistic AI. A massive world with tons of options? There is only so much they can do.

Zillah

oldrnwisr wrote: »

I think it's a limitation of AI in general at the moment.

In fairness, though, what's the alternative? In the real world they'd call in support the moment you are detected and have search teams sent out for you, and you'd have to high tail it, and they'd probably eventually track you down and kill you. You can recreate scenes like that in most games if you want, but in an open world game not having them go back to their business after a few minutes of not detecting you would kind of ruin the gameplay.

oldrnwisr

Zillah wrote: »

In fairness, though, what's the alternative? In the real world they'd call in support the moment you are detected and have search teams sent out for you, and you'd have to high tail it, and they'd probably eventually track you down and kill you. You can recreate scenes like that in most games if you want, but in an open world game not having them go back to their business after a few minutes of not detecting you would kind of ruin the gameplay.

Well, there's a couple of options for an alternative system. You could introduce a body drop system so that if you take out somebody you can hide the body so it isn't found and the guards don't go on a pointless 30 second search.
Also if a body is found the raiders could consolidate their position, get into a covered position, start patrolling in pairs instead, start turning on lights/searching with flashlights/torches etc., pop a grenade in the general direction of your suspected/last known position, start moving chairs/movable items to create obstacles/points of cover. It could be done without breaking the game but I'm not sure that the coding is up to it right now.

Benzino

Zillah wrote: »

In fairness, though, what's the alternative? In the real world they'd call in support the moment you are detected and have search teams sent out for you, and you'd have to high tail it, and they'd probably eventually track you down and kill you. You can recreate scenes like that in most games if you want, but in an open world game not having them go back to their business after a few minutes of not detecting you would kind of ruin the gameplay.

Yeah I agree, it's purely a design decision at this stage. They could easily do what you described above, but then what would be the point in investing in stealth aspects of the game if the above were to happen.

BeardySi

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Well, there's a couple of options for an alternative system. You could introduce a body drop system so that if you take out somebody you can hide the body so it isn't found and the guards don't go on a pointless 30 second search.
Also if a body is found the raiders could consolidate their position, get into a covered position, start patrolling in pairs instead, start turning on lights/searching with flashlights/torches etc., pop a grenade in the general direction of your suspected/last known position, start moving chairs/movable items to create obstacles/points of cover. It could be done without breaking the game but I'm not sure that the coding is up to it right now.

sounds like Commandos 2...

oldrnwisr

Benzino wrote: »

Yeah I agree, it's purely a design decision at this stage. They could easily do what you described above, but then what would be the point in investing in stealth aspects of the game if the above were to happen.

Well, because then it would make stealth properly challenging. Right now I've got Mister Sandman and Ninja and Sneak maxed out as well as a full suit of muffled shadowed armour. So I'm getting a 5.3x sneak multiplier pretty much all the time. Combine that with the crappy AI and I'm pretty much invincible.

What I'm talking about is achieving stealth in the face of advanced counter-sniper or counter-stealth techniques. Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4xO0k9LcIU

It is doable. Just look at All Ghillied Up from the first COD Modern Warfare. If you could implement that kind of system globally it would make stealth gameplay much more satisfactory.

Kirby

oldrnwisr wrote: »

It is doable. Just look at All Ghillied Up from the first COD Modern Warfare. If you could implement that kind of system globally it would make stealth gameplay much more satisfactory.

Ofcourse its doable. In the small room like I said.

All Ghillied up is a scripted environment where the game guides you through a narrow corridor. It's a pretty corridor and it disguises it well but its still a narrow corridor. The game always knows which direction you will be facing the AI at, it knows what gun you have, it knows where you came from and where you are going. If you get caught its mission over and you restart. So thats more AI that doesnt have to be programmed because you just start again. There are no restarts in open world. The game has to flow.

Open world has more variables. A lot more. You can come from any direction. You might be level 1 or level 20. You might have a melee weapon or a rifle or a pistol. You might have a wingsuit and come from above or through the water. You might be in a vehicle. It might be night time or day time. None of those are a factor in all ghillied up. Which makes it easier to program for.

Like I said, open world AI is not small room AI. We can do incredible things with it, but the bigger the scale the harder it becomes.

allibastor

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1224/?

There is a vid at the bottom here showing the metal arm armor that has blades on it. Anyone know how to get it.

After a few successful chat up lines I managed to knock boots with Magnolia in Goodneighbor :P

x43r0

Deleted User wrote: »

After a few successful chat up lines I managed to knock boots with Magnolia in Goodneighbor :P

J Mysterio

Kirby wrote: »

blah, blah, blah

Im still pissed at you for day 0 spoiler.

You big d1ckhead.

SeantheMan

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

What's the all-red one in the second picture? Looks class.

It's a bit of a balls when you're making changes the way the part you're modifying stays green. Can't see what colour it's gonna be. Godammit Bethesda, sometimes the parts aren't that plentiful!

It's the X-01 armor done up in the Hot Rod red.
You can get the armor from 35 court (It's a big tower in main city ...but be prepared to fight a Sentry bot and the other crazy one at the top)

You can get the Red Armor paint from Robotics disposal (it's to the East of Sanctuary...and Northwest of the Satellite...no enemies there)


Best companion so far (fighting wise - she tears people up with that sword, she also looks cool :P)

degrassinoel

Was doing the freedom trail quest with McCready (follower from the third rail bar in goodneighbour) - got into the tunnels and hadnt been there before - so i was stealthing along with a silenced 10MM - McCready shouts "TUNNEL SNAKES RULE!" and breaks his bollix laughing

Genuinely scared the **** out of me and made me laugh at the same time

ShadowHearth

degrassinoel wrote: »

Was doing the freedom trail quest with McCready (follower from the third rail bar in goodneighbour) - got into the tunnels and hadnt been there before - so i was stealthing along with a silenced 10MM - McCready shouts "TUNNEL SNAKES RULE!" and breaks his bollix laughing

Genuinely scared the **** out of me and made me laugh at the same time

Wait, tunnel snakes? Wasn't that fallout 3 reference?!

froog

two things really affecting my enjoyment of this game - the endless loading screens, and the inventory management after every mission. about a third of my time is taken up by this.

degrassinoel

yep, McCready has a background.. wont spoil it for ye, but he has a lot to say

degrassinoel

froog wrote: »

two things really affecting my enjoyment of this game - the endless loading screens, and the inventory management after every mission. about a third of my time is taken up by this.

I've a workshop dedicated to dealing with that in every settlement

i have the armour bench, weapons bench etc.. and a container beside each (red toolbox or something), stuff i want to keep i throw in the box, and wreck dismantle everything else on the benches, andthing that's left over i either sell it or make someone wear it.. I fcukin told preston if he asked me what i was doing one more time i'd make him wear a dress..

Plus ye can use a follower to mule for ye - took me ages to break the habit of picking every damn thing up, but i'm mostly just picking up ammo and stims now, with the occasional 'Oooh that'll come in handy' item here and there

Thargor

I uninstalled and started again with it on my SSD instead of HDD, night and day, loading screens are still there but you barely have time to scratch your nose, previously I was turning on the tv and channel hopping a bit waiting for some places to come up.

ShadowHearth

degrassinoel wrote: »

I've a workshop dedicated to dealing with that in every settlement

i have the armour bench, weapons bench etc.. and a container beside each (red toolbox or something), stuff i want to keep i throw in the box, and wreck dismantle everything else on the benches, andthing that's left over i either sell it or make someone wear it.. I fcukin told preston if he asked me what i was doing one more time i'd make him wear a dress..

Plus ye can use a follower to mule for ye - took me ages to break the habit of picking every damn thing up, but i'm mostly just picking up ammo and stims now, with the occasional 'Oooh that'll come in handy' item here and there

Just get cait, she is a fecking cleptomaniac. She will just pick up everything. Then when you low on shot, check her inventory. It will be full of crap for scrap. I love that girl.

Thargor

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Just get cait, she is a fecking cleptomaniac. She will just pick up everything. Then when you low on shot, check her inventory. It will be full of crap for scrap. I love that girl.

No way? I never knew that, was going to get loved up with the Synth detective for the extra hacking attempt from his perk but Ill probably go straight for her instead...

Wossack

degrassinoel wrote: »

Was doing the freedom trail quest with McCready (follower from the third rail bar in goodneighbour) - got into the tunnels and hadnt been there before - so i was stealthing along with a silenced 10MM - McCready shouts "TUNNEL SNAKES RULE!" and breaks his bollix laughing

Genuinely scared the **** out of me and made me laugh at the same time

whats so funny? they do rule!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0ximxe4XtU

Zillah

Deleted User wrote: »

After a few successful chat up lines I managed to knock boots with Magnolia in Goodneighbor :P

According to the wiki

if you kill her you find a synth chip on her, so in essence you've just fracked a cylon

.

Kirby

J Mysterio wrote: »

Im still pissed at you for day 0 spoiler.

You big d1ckhead.

Wait, what? What day 1 spoiler? I think you have me confused with somebody else.

I dont appreciate comments like that.

Just finishing up the BoS main story missions, had Curie with me when I went to get the

bombs for the giant robot

she says when you talk to the

cult of the atom guys

"I believe they are in need of psychological counselling

J Mysterio

Kirby wrote: »

Wait, what? What day 1 spoiler? I think you have me confused with somebody else.

I dont appreciate comments like that.

Oh. Sorry, thought it was you.

Some douche spoiled what happened with 'Shaun' in here on day 1. My bad.

J Mysterio

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Just get cait, she is a fecking cleptomaniac. She will just pick up everything. Then when you low on shot, check her inventory. It will be full of crap for scrap. I love that girl.

Im trying to get her in the sack, if it can be done. There's a notable absence of double beds in the Commonwealth.

MiskyBoyy

J Mysterio wrote: »

Oh. Sorry, thought it was you.

Some douche spoiled what happened with 'Shaun' in here on day 1. My bad.

That was a troll account with like a 2 post count, set up, just to be a cúnt. Think they were banned straight after that.

Turns out, it wasn't as much of a shocker really.

god's toy

Suppose after 40 + hours of play I may as well head to diamond City and start the main story line?

Temptamperu

Finished today with the institute, had an absolute blast with this game despite the bugs and frame loss. Well worth the 70 bucks.