Website / Domain Names / Legal action

les succulent ducks

I am a web designer by trade and I need to ask for peoples advice on a matter that, in my opinion, is total bollix (excuse my French!).

I did a website, about 400 euro worth, for a guy about two years ago. I think the site went live about January 2011. Guy had registered his own domain name and purchased hosting around October 2010 and I uploaded the site to where he had purchased etc. I advised him about domain names having to be renewed etc. and to watch out for this in a year or so........

I then got a phone call a year later (around November 2011) with the guy saying his site was down. I did a quick check online and saw that his domain was after expiring. I advised him this had nothing to do with me and that he had to contact the registrar of the domain name to renew it. I thought nothing of it, until recently (December 2012), a letter arrived on my doorstep from his solicitor.

The summary of the letter was that he was going to sue me! It goes on to say that he now has to go and get the site redone and that it will be up to me to pay the new web designer. Also he wants damages for the site going down etc.

What do people think? Is this pure and utter madness to be in this position? After all, if he had done what I advised him to do and renew the domain every year then this would not have happened.

I actually have a backup of the site files at home on my computer. Should I give them to him?

Another thing - him and his solicitor do not have a clue what they are on about in the letter. I actually asked the solicitor what exactly is the problem and he could not tell me. I then said to him "So you are suing me for something you know nothing about"!! Only in Ireland!

FYI - My Web design business has ceased trading for about 8 months.

Your feedback is appreciated.

Thank you ;-)

KonFusion

kmetelko wrote: »

I then said to him "So you are suing me for something you know nothing about"!! Only in Ireland!

Don't say anything to him.

Solicitors talk to solicitors.

Contact a solicitor immediately.

ChRoMe

KonFusion wrote: »

Don't say anything to him.

Solicitors talk to solicitors.

Contact a solicitor.

Yeah, lawyer up. However, dont spend any money on one until you get a second or third letter, this is most likely a scare tactic. Wait for him to put his money where his mouth is first

The original site was 400 quid, its very quickly not going to make economic sense for him to pursue this.

KonFusion

Chrome's right, it could just be a scare tactic.

I just really want to stress the point of having absolutely no contact with him or his solicitor, unless you're communicating through your solicitor.

Even giving him the files in good faith could be seen as an admission of guilt.

Every. Single. Thing. Through a solicitor.

Kenny Logins

If he organised the domain and hosting himself he's just going to make a fool of himself and his solicitor...

Pacing Mule

KonFusion wrote: »

Don't say anything to him.

Solicitors talk to solicitors.

Contact a solicitor immediately.

Solictors charge money for this.

Assuming none of the below is contradicted in any contract (if there even was one)

IMO a letter back to the solicitor informing him that the client engaged the OP in a web design project that did not include hosting or domain registration as the client had arranged this personally. State that the files were uploaded to the server on behalf of the client and that the OP fulfilled all requirements. Point out that domain registration records and hosting invoices etc will show the client was the person who arranged them and therefore any issues with non renewal of these services is the fault of the client themselves.

Sparks

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Solictors charge money for this.

Yup. And KonFusion is still correct. Don't write one word, don't speak one word to him or his solicitor.

a letter back to the solicitor

isn't necessary. A solicitor's letter is just that; a letter. Not a summons. Not a court order. You don't have to do anything if you get one (though giving it to your own solicitor is a good idea). And since any slip in language, any omission however innocent or inadvertant, can be used against you in any subsequent legal action, writing back is just opening yourself up to liability without any reason to do so. It's risk without any possibility of gain and with a non-zero chance of loss.

BTW, this thread? Possibly not a great idea either. The case isn't sub judice so I won't delete it, but if it was me, I wouldn't have started it (I'd just have contacted a solicitor).

les succulent ducks

Thanks for all the replies lads. Really good information. But why are people more concerned about the solicitors letter than the facts of the matter?

I don't think people understand what is going on here. And I don't think people understand the setup of domains, hosting etc. Not being rude there... ;-)

I had nothing to do with the domain and Hosting? I did not sell him the domain and Hosting? He paid another company for the domain and hosting so surely it is them he should be sending the letter to?

Lets try to put this into context. Lets take for instance a car. If you buy a car in the morning. and have it for two years. What happens if you don't put oil into it for two years? The car is wrecked! But can you go to your solicitor and send a letter to sue the person who sold you the car because of negligence?

The exact same principal applies here. The exact same! I didn't make his site go down? It was himself?

Also someone mentions above not to reply to the letter? I don't understand why you wouldn't reply to the letter? I mean just to explain your side of the story? How is this open for liability if I state the facts?

In fact I have sent a letter to the solicitor explaining my side of the story. I don't understand how this is going to open me up to liability?

I'm waiting for the reply from the solicitor at present. Will update soon.....

Also, I said I'd put this on boards.ie as I have nothing to hide? I want to make people aware of 21st century Ireland.

As far as I'm concerned he hasn't a leg to stand on... FACT!

ChRoMe

kmetelko wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies lads. Really good information. But why are people more concerned about the solicitors letter than the facts of the matter?

I don't think people understand what is going on here. And I don't think people understand the setup of domains, hosting etc. Not being rude there... ;-)

To be blunt, we understand it better than you do. So much so that we can recognize that this is not a technical matter, its a legal one and hence should be dealt with as such.

You just made a big mistake acknowledging the letter.....

les succulent ducks

ChRoMe wrote: »

You just made a big mistake acknowledging the letter.....

Strange - So nobody can reply to a solicitors letter in case it gets legal? I cannot for the life of me understand what I have done wrong by simply replying?

I don't know lads...... We'll see how it turns out anyway....

Thanks for the feedback tho.....

ChRoMe

kmetelko wrote: »

Strange - So nobody can reply to a solicitors letter in case it gets legal? I cannot for the life of me understand what I have done wrong by simply replying?

I don't know lads...... We'll see how it turns out anyway....

Thanks for the feedback tho.....

You have just given a shred of credibility to the claims by having acknowledged the letter. Communication has begun which is the first step for them.

Good luck

KonFusion

kmetelko wrote: »

I don't think people understand what is going on here. And I don't think people understand the setup of domains, hosting etc. Not being rude there... ;-)

What forum do you think you are in? :pac:

I'm now convinced OP is trolling.

smcelhinney

KonFusion wrote: »

I'm now convinced OP is trolling.

Most. Appropriate. GIF. Ever.

OP, you have all the answers that anybody is going to give you, listed above. Any other answer will be a variant of what's already said. Would you like bullet points?

a) You shouldnt have acknowledged the letter. You did. Water. Bridge. etc
b) A letter is not a summons. No legal action has been taken.
c) By all accounts it seems you are in the right. If you have any documentation to prove you informed the client, then retain it, dont share it with him.
d) Only acknowledge the claim if you get a summons citing legal action to be taken and then, engage a solicitor.

We can do diagrams too? We're good with Photoshop here.

les succulent ducks

thanks dudes!! Ha Ha

kayos

The only way to deal with a solicitors letter is speak with your own solicitor and follow his advice. That advice might be do nothing, your solicitor sending his solicitor a letter or batten down the hatches (doesn't seem likely based on your side of the story). If you speak to your solicitor now and tell him you already spoke with the solicitor representing your client he's most likely going to say you shouldn't have done that (as most people here have said).

Speak to your solicitor, follow his advice, forward any correspondence you receive from your client or his solicitor to him and only speak to your solicitor.

Its not like you broke a law in speaking with the clients solicitor but in cases like this you should always cover your ass and that means having your own legal advice.

Kenny Logins

smcelhinney wrote: »

Most. Appropriate. GIF. Ever.

OP, you have all the answers that anybody is going to give you, listed above. Any other answer will be a variant of what's already said. Would you like bullet points?

a) You shouldnt have acknowledged the letter. You did. Water. Bridge. etc
b) A letter is not a summons. No legal action has been taken.
c) By all accounts it seems you are in the right. If you have any documentation to prove you informed the client, then retain it, dont share it with him.
d) Only acknowledge the claim if you get a summons citing legal action to be taken and then, engage a solicitor.

We can do diagrams too? We're good with Photoshop here.

Jpeg.

Just sayin'

Sparks

kmetelko wrote: »

can you go to your solicitor and send a letter to sue the person who sold you the car because of negligence?

Yes. Did you think there was a law against that? If it wasn't actually illegal to send one, and the solicitor can charge between fifty and two hundred euro to send one, why would they refuse to do so?

And from your point of view, it's a letter. Not a court case. It can't issue a binding judgement against you, it can't compel you to do anything, it has no more and no less legal standing than any other form of written communication -- the problem is that when you reply to it, you're issuing written communication to a person whose professional capacity it is to find something in that letter to use against you in a legal case, and things you think are meaningless (an accidental omission, a simplification of a technical explanation that's not completely and in every regard accurate, an accidental inaccuracy, anything) can wind up being things that are very very awkward if not very expensive later on -- and you can't win anyway. Any letter you write back can't prevent them doing anything.

This was never about the technical aspects of the job, they have no interest in that whatsoever. To use the car analogy, you were standing in front of an oncoming car and instead of side-stepping to avoid being hit, you started arguing with the driver that he was driving incorrectly...

Honestly, this is why companies have legal departments and strict rules for everyone else in the company for staying silent in the event of legal threats or legal action...

Evil Phil

Like everybody else: If you're worried you need to go to a solicitor and discuss the matter with them.

Agent Smith

You should Buy the domain, just to piss him off more

dahamsta

I disagree with most of the advice above.

IANAL but I receive solicitors letters on a regular basis via Foot.ie, nearly all of them nonsense, and I've only ever replied to one because of persistence by the complainant. The rest were completely ignored and nothing ever came of it. I've never received a writ or even a 2nd solicitors letter, not once in 12 years of shouting and roaring from an obnoxious shower renowned for their litigiousness.

If I received a complaint like the above I'd make an exception though. I wouldn't ignore it, because it's on a whole new plain of ridiculousness. I'd:

a) laugh my hole off
b) shred the solicitors letter, because it's worthless in this case (and in most cases)
c) go out of my way to tell the complainant to go f*ck themselves.

It's nonsense, start to finish. Ignore it or ridicule it, but don't engage with it. Certainly not with a solicitor, since it'd be flushing money down the toilet.

MOH

Aside from the fact that though it does sound like you're in the right, you should probably talk to a solicitor: did you have a written contract for the original work? And did it clearly define exactly what you were and weren't responsible for?

PrzemoF

Not-a-real-advice: buy that domain! :eek: