Boiler frost stat remove because caused boiler to run continuously

frankmul

My sister in law has had a stove with a back boiler put in and additional valves and stat as well. The plumber or electrican removed the frost stat as they said that it caused the boiler to run continuously when wired up with the new inside frost stat. It doesn't make any sense to me. Has anyone seen this happen.
The inside frost stat is a new 3 channel time clock Sauter model with what I think is built in frost protection.
Is there a risk of the boiler freezing if the back boiler can keep the house warm enough.

M cebee

is it an outside boiler?
it may not be protected with stat on timer indoors

not quite sure what they're on about.boiler shouldn't run continuous if stat is situated so that it can respond to rise in temperature

frankmul

M cebee wrote: »

is it an outside boiler?
it may not be protected with stat on timer indoors

not quite sure what they're on about.boiler shouldn't run continuous if stat is situated so that it can respond to rise in temperature

Outdoor boiler alright. The frost stat was in it and it survived the hard winters a few years ago. I thought it should work as you said in parallel to the switchwire from inside

I think that they are trying to pull a fast one and blame the frost stat but just wonder is there something I'm missing.

M cebee

frankmul wrote: »

Outdoor boiler alright. The frost stat was in it and it survived the hard winters a few years ago. I thought it should work as you said in parallel to the switchwire from inside

I think that they are trying to pull a fast one and blame the frost stat but just wonder is there something I'm missing.

yes-at a guess here
if you have an indoor frost stat and valves

then you'd prob have frost stat adjacent to outdoor boiler and a bypass to protect boiler

boiler break downs

M cebee wrote: »

yes-at a guess here
if you have an indoor frost stat and valves

then you'd prob have frost stat adjacent to outdoor boiler and a bypass to protect boiler

I know the grant vortex frost stat can be fauty and turns the burner on at 8 decrees. Should only turn on at about 3 or 4.

Bruthal

frankmul wrote: »

Outdoor boiler alright. The frost stat was in it and it survived the hard winters a few years ago. I thought it should work as you said in parallel to the switchwire from inside

I think that they are trying to pull a fast one and blame the frost stat but just wonder is there something I'm missing.

Is the back boiler heating the rads that the outside boiler also heats?

Is it a vented setup?

Anyway, it does have a hint of problems occuring, and they just did away with frost stat rather than solve, or couldnt solve.

frankmul

boiler break downs wrote: »

I know the grant vortex frost stat can be fauty and turns the burner on at 8 decrees. Should only turn on at about 3 or 4.

This occur just before the Christmas when the weather was mild, the frost stat is situated in the boiler I think so would it not switch off again quickly?

frankmul

Bruthal wrote: »

Is the back boiler heating the rads that the outside boiler also heats?

Back boiler can heat everything.

Bruthal wrote: »

Is it a vented setup?

Don't know if it vented, how would that effect things?

Bruthal wrote: »

Anyway, it does have a hint of problems occuring, and they just did away with frost stat rather than solve, or couldnt solve.

That is what I'm worried about, is it normal to have house frost protection protecting an outside boiler. Sould I tell them to get them to get on to the plumber or let it be.

TPM

It sounds like there was a mixup in the wiring to me, like the permanent and switched live were mixed up when the new time clock was fitted and the frost stat was an excuse.

With the past few winters we have had I wouldnt risk an outdoor boiler with no stat.
The frost protection of the new timer will only bring the heating on if the temperature inside the house drops below the set frost point

Bruthal

frankmul wrote: »

Back boiler can heat everything.


Don't know if it vented, how would that effect things?




That is what I'm worried about, is it normal to have house frost protection protecting an outside boiler. Sould I tell them to get them to get on to the plumber or let it be.

The vented was just really in curiosity. It is probably recommended that back boilers are connected to vented heating systems because they cant be instantly shut down or precisely controlled by safety features like oil or gas boilers can.

An outside frost stat should have been able to control the existing boiler as it always has, as it would still be that boiler that would provide the frost protection for itself, and the house if needed, especially if the house was left unoccupied during bad weather, and with the boiler being outside the house.

No matter how the inside stat is setup, it would be expected that the outside one can also bring on the boiler.

Was the finished setup so the boiler wont come on when the back boiler is heating the rads, or does heated water from the back boiler flow out through the boiler heat exchanger and vice versa? This would prevent freezing of the boiler when back boiler is working, but would be wasting heat, acting as if a rad was outside.

There would probably be different ways of setting it all up, and what the planned intended operation of the finished system was, would have been handy to know probably.

frankmul

Bruthal wrote: »

The vented was just really in curiosity. It is probably recommended that back boilers are connected to vented heating systems because they cant be instantly shut down or precisely controlled by safety features like oil or gas boilers can.

An outside frost stat should have been able to control the existing boiler as it always has, as it would still be that boiler that would provide the frost protection for itself, and the house if needed, especially if the house was left unoccupied during bad weather, and with the boiler being outside the house.

No matter how the inside stat is setup, it would be expected that the outside one can also bring on the boiler.

Was the finished setup so the boiler wont come on when the back boiler is heating the rads, or does heated water from the back boiler flow out through the boiler heat exchanger and vice versa? This would prevent freezing of the boiler when back boiler is working, but would be wasting heat, acting as if a rad was outside.

There would probably be different ways of setting it all up, and what the planned intended operation of the finished system was, would have been handy to know probably.

Thanks for the all the advise, not fully sure of the full set up, I know the back boiler is connect in after the zone valves so I don't think it can supply hot water to boiler.
I think the verdict is that there should be a frost stat on the boiler and I'm going to get them to get on to the electrician or plumber. There might be a valid reason for it been removed!

Bruthal

frankmul wrote: »

I think the verdict is that there should be a frost stat on the boiler

I would think so, as the weather might be freezing outside, and inside the house might not be cold.

There might be a valid reason for it been removed!

An inside stat wouldnt do much good for the outside boiler in freezing weather anyway if the outside one has no flow out to it when it is off, with the back boiler running, so it would be interesting to know what the setup is anyway.

You would imagine a stat could be setup outside, with the boiler able to come on, maybe with a bypass inside the house to allow flow out and return, to protect the boiler and underground/overground pipes between it and the house.

frankmul

I got on to my brother in law and told him my views. He got on to the electrician and the stat is going in early next week.
Thank for all the advise.

woody1

boiler break downs wrote: »

I know the grant vortex frost stat can be fauty and turns the burner on at 8 decrees. Should only turn on at about 3 or 4.

can it be adjusted / replaced..i have a vortex and a stanley solid fuel, but the shagging vortex will come on if a stiff breeze blows at it.. wondering is there anything i could do..

frankmul

Just a quick update. The boiler needed to be replaced during the summing, only heard about it in the end of summer but it seems that "there was water all over the place in the boiler". Would love to know what caused it but will never find out. Thankfully they got the same guy to replace the boiler so there should be no blaming the last guy in.

Bruthal

frankmul wrote: »

Just a quick update. The boiler needed to be replaced during the summing, only heard about it in the end of summer but it seems that "there was water all over the place in the boiler". Would love to know what caused it but will never find out. Thankfully they got the same guy to replace the boiler so there should be no blaming the last guy in.

If it was a condensing boiler, maybe the drain from it was blocked.

frankmul

Would that involve replacing the whole boiler?

Bruthal

I suppose it depends on the problems the water caused, although I thought there was a sensor to detect water build up in the case of blocked drains.

If the boiler needed replacing, there may have been another problem causing the water problem, such as a leak.

frankmul

The boiler frost stat was removed and frost protection was provide by a room stat in utility room with a frost protection setting. The house has a back boiler installed on sitting room fire which at the time would have been providing the majority of the heat for the house. I think that the frost in march or April burst the boiler. No local frost protection. The house would have been kept warm by the back boiler. Am I nuts?

Bruthal

Yea the frost stat wont work properly in the house, especially when there is a secondary heating setup. For protecting pipes in the ground outside, it should be sensing the temperature outside.

frankmul

That was my thoughts. Ultimate test is , how long will the new boiler last. That's why I was happy that they got the same plumber back in to change the boiler. He will find it had to blame someone else if the boiler breaks again. Tonight is going to be the first of the frost isn't it?

TPM

frankmul wrote: »

The boiler frost stat was removed and frost protection was provide by a room stat in utility room with a frost protection setting. The house has a back boiler installed on sitting room fire which at the time would have been providing the majority of the heat for the house. I think that the frost in march or April burst the boiler. No local frost protection. The house would have been kept warm by the back boiler. Am I nuts?

The room stat in the utility with the frost protection setting is for protecting the inside pipework, rads etc from frost, it has no way of detecting the temperature in the outside boiler casing and so offer no frost protection to the outside boiler at all specially when there was a fire lighting in the house.

Bruthal wrote: »

Yea the frost stat wont work properly in the house, especially when there is a secondary heating setup. For protecting pipes in the ground outside, it should be sensing the temperature outside.

exactly the frost stat only covers items located in the same area as the stat.
stat mounted inside the building/house-- protects items inside(could even be limited to the same room in certain circumstances)
stat located in an outdoor boiler housing--- protects boiler, pipe, pump inside the housing

pipes located outside will depend on the insulation to protect them as neither the inside stat ot the boiler stat will be detecting the outside temperature

frankmul

I agree but it's my sister in law's boiler. I gave my opinion before and her hubby put it to the plumber. He was told that a frost stat would be put in. He might be out of his depth on the technical side but another burst boiler will open his eyes quickly. I hope it doesn't come to that.