Advice on maintenance payments

hellosailor

Hi all,
My ex partner and I split up 4 years ago we have 2 children together and were together for over 8 years.

At the time things were not great between us and I took him to court for other reasons as well as to sort out maintenance payments. He was ordered to pay e35 per week through the court for maintenance. He did this for around 1 year (he was still living at home with his parents) When he moved into a flat 3 years ago (which he recieves rent allowance for) he stopped paying maintenance and hasnt givin me a penny since. He's reasoning for this is that he is only on social welfare and since he takes the kids for 3 nights every 2nd weekend in which time he clothes and feeds them he shouldnt have to give me any money.

After a year of asking him to pay I rang the court and asked them what I should do (I thought since it was a court order that they would have been chasing him for the money but this was not the case!) The court clerk advised me that even if I bring him to court that since his circumstances have changed I might not get any money at all and he would not have to pay me what is owed either.

I am not a confrontational person and am unable to stand up to him most of the time as he can get very angry and aggressive ( but never violent).

I feel like going through court was such a waste of time now and I dont know what to do because Ive left it go so long. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

ABajaninCork

I'd seek legal advice. Is there a FLAC (or similar) where you are?

hellosailor

Ya Ive gone to the FLAC a few months ago and the solicitor just advised me to sit down and try talking with my ex about how hard things are financially etc and I did try but I just got the same old answers that he is broke at the moment... The solicitor said if that didnt work then take him back to court but from what Ive read on other posts its not worth the energy... Its so unfair that I paid €2000 4 years ago bringing him to court and at the end of it all it seems that the courts are essentially powerless to make him pay...

It makes me so mad that he can say that he is broke but he can afford alcohol and tobacco when ever he wants when Im here struggling to get by. I pay the mortgage (that his name is still on - the bank refused to take his name off it) I pay all the school fees, Birthday parties, medicine etc...

I would love to stop him seeing the kids because he doesnt deserve to, to be honest but I just couldnt do that to them, they dont need to be punished because of his actions (or lack of)

Goldenlady

Hi Hellosailor,
I really like your attitude to this with regard to not using the kids against him, my ex had kids from a previous relationship and had to pay €270 per week for maintenance for 2 of them (Unreal amount!).... he never failed to pay it, but once the bank screwed up and it didnt leave his account one week - his ex wife rang the guards and her solicitor and made a massive issue of it - she was the type that stopped him seeing the kids if anything happened - she basically got every penny she could despite them spending every week end with us.
From my experience, the only way you can sort this is through a solicitor, he needs to cough up.... its not fair on your to have to pay for everything. I understand he may be unemployed, but thats still 180 a week so even 25 would help you.
Try citizens advice and see if they can give you free legal aid so you are not out of pocket again...
best of luck
x

Witchie

Really sorry to hear you are going through this but you are so right you must not ever use the kids as a weapon. I have been in similar situation and really just had to suck it up and let the dad pay when he could. Its not fair but its torture dealing with courts etc. I had such hassle when I went to vary the maintenance order to €0 when their dad couldnt pay due to being on disability benefit at the time and having 3 other children and a new wife to support so I had to get that done so that I could get one parent family payments having just lost my job.

It turned into a right mess when my ex hubby's best mate died the day before he was due in court and he didnt show up. A bench warrant was issued and he had to surrender to it and then the judge ordered he pay all the back money due or go to jail for a week.

I ended up having to go to court and tell the judge that I wanted nothing from him coz I didnt want him going to jail as my kids would never forgive me for that and at all times they are the priority. He had to borrow €5000 from his pensioner parents to pay me coz the judge insisted. I gave his parents half of it back directly coz I really didnt see why they should carry their son's debts but due to my own circumstances I was glad of the rest of it.

My ex was very grateful with the approach I took and now he is back on his feet and giving my eldest son a few quid each week in college which makes all our lives easier.

Basically what my tale above is trying to highlight is to think carefully before you go through the court system as it may make things worse in the long run and you will struggle but you will survive but if your kids think that you are pushing their dad out of their lives or sending him to jail, your relationship with them will be the real loser and no matter what else, your kids are the priority.

Good luck.

tony81

hellosailor wrote: »

It makes me so mad that he can say that he is broke but he can afford alcohol and tobacco when ever he wants when Im here struggling to get by. I pay the mortgage (that his name is still on - the bank refused to take his name off it) I pay all the school fees, Birthday parties, medicine etc...

He has cigs and alcohol, you have the house and kids.. Courts can often be very anti-male but you can't get blood from a stone and living on welfare can be fairly bleak with extra deductions... Seems like half the money he gave you was squandered on solicitors fees anyway... Was there not a more amicable solution?

Have a bit of empathy and see things from his pov. At least he takes the kids for almost half a week every second week during which he provides food, shelter and clothes... Not to mention its good that kids know their father. I'm sure he doesn't get any of the child benefit payment, nor the one-parent family tax credit or welfare payment.

ABajaninCork

tony81 wrote: »

I'm sure he doesn't get any of the child benefit payment, nor the one-parent family tax credit or welfare payment.

Of course he doesn't. And why should he? Contrary to what some people might think, it's money to keep the kids!!!

hellosailor

tony81 wrote: »

He has cigs and alcohol, you have the house and kids.. Courts can often be very anti-male but you can't get blood from a stone and living on welfare can be fairly bleak with extra deductions... Seems like half the money he gave you was squandered on solicitors fees anyway... Was there not a more amicable solution?

Have a bit of empathy and see things from his pov. At least he takes the kids for almost half a week every second week during which he provides food, shelter and clothes... Not to mention its good that kids know their father. I'm sure he doesn't get any of the child benefit payment, nor the one-parent family tax credit or welfare payment.

I had to bring him to court over another matter so the money was not "squandered" on a solicitor and I have seen it from his point of view many times, as I said I have sat down with him many many times to try work things out amicably. I even suggested he pay me every second week but all I hear is no every single time. I asked him for money for one of our daughters swimming lessons which she does through school once a week its e3 and he said he doesnt have it.

I am also unemployed and living on the breadline. I have far more bills than him (obviously) He gets rent allowance but I receive no help how s this fair?

Big Bag of Chips

You say you are both unemployed? Would it be possible to share custody? 50/50. 3.5 days a week each or 3 days 1 week, 4 days next?

If he can't afford to or doesn't want to pay maintenance to you, then you should have an alternative to offer him. If you do need to go back to court, it will at least look good for you that you are trying to come up with alternatives.

hellosailor

Thanks I have aksed him before if he would like to do that but he said no but maybe I should approach the idea once again and see what he says as it was 3 years ago the last time I suggested it... Im not sure if this would have a positive or negative affect on the children though. Having 2 part time homes is certainly something I wouldn't like myself so it would be great to talk to someone who has gone through this with their children or even themselves. The last thing I want is for the children to be unhappy.

Honey-ec

tony81 wrote: »

He has cigs and alcohol, you have the house and kids.. Courts can often be very anti-male but you can't get blood from a stone and living on welfare can be fairly bleak with extra deductions... Seems like half the money he gave you was squandered on solicitors fees anyway... Was there not a more amicable solution?

Have a bit of empathy and see things from his pov. At least he takes the kids for almost half a week every second week during which he provides food, shelter and clothes... Not to mention its good that kids know their father. I'm sure he doesn't get any of the child benefit payment, nor the one-parent family tax credit or welfare payment.

The house she's paying for and 35 quid a week isn't exactly lotto money.

OP, you have my utmost sympathy. My sister is in a similar position in that her ex has yet to pay a single penny of his court-ordered maintenance and she's extremely close to going under financially. She's been in and out of court with him non-stop since last April, but the case has just been adjourned every time. At this stage she has given up on the court system altogether as they seem to be completely powerless.

Withholding access can seem like a very petty thing to do, but for some women it is the last resort open to them in what can be a pretty hopeless situation. Unfortunately, this isn't even an option for my sister as her ex couldn't give a fiddlers about seeing his daughter.

LegacyUser

Forget the courts. The bottom line is they cant and wont do anything. I know ...I know... you hear stories of the guards and men getting arrested who fail to pay it... but from what I know these are far and few between and enforcement is rare and even if they are true.... he can hardly pay you maintenance from prison so it defeats the purpose. Not only that you don't want your kids to be visiting dad in prison. The only thing about a court order is that when its written down it has authority and that might encourage payment, even if it has no legal effect, it might have psychological effect, but it might not.

The result of this flawed system, where the law doesn't want to do its job and there is no enforcement is that you the mother, end up having to be the bad guy and play dirty. The kids already have a relationship with their dad, and he sees them regularly right? You don't want to disrupt that because your kids would be really really sad and it would be destructive all around for all of you. So blocking his custodial time is not such a good idea, so scratch that as tempting as it may be when it seems like the only leverage you have.

So he feeds and clothes the kids when they are with him so its not like you can send them with no clothes or toothbrushes and it make an impact where he has to buy his own clothes. This is kind of a plus because at least you don't have all that dirty laundry to do when they come back! On the other hand, its a waste of money to have two sets of clothes. You could pack the clothes, he wouldnt have to buy an extra set they are going to grow out of in six months, and then your daughter could get swimming lessons or whatever?

Because you are paying the mortgage, if it came to you you would probably get the house anyway. But I wonder if there is any leverage in that.

Custody arrangements are a decision I believe you should make between you and not take advice on the internet about. Its such a crucial decision that the parents should take full responsibility for it. No one knows you or your kids like you do and they will be the ones who will be mostly affected by the arrangements.

So let's see what can you do about the money? E35 for two kids is pathetic, even with him taking the kids for a long weekend every two weeks. Honestly, I don't think there is anything you can do about it other than a civil suit where you sue him for financial damages and get a lump sum. I'm not even sure if this is possible, just thinking it might be an alternate route but if he is on social welfare, you cant get blood from a stone in the end and you might end up even worse off after legal fees.

Oh and court clerks are not supposed to give out legal advise!!! It's anyone's guess what a judge will order from a social welfare recipient.