Radamel Falcao couldn't lace RVP's boots!

MaroonAndGreen

Owen_S wrote: »

Apart from Gary Neville, there isn't a single person on Sky who's opinion should be taken seriously.

In fairness I think Ruud Gullitt and Ray Wilkins always come across well too

The_Kew_Tour

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Ray Wilkins always come across well too

BetterCallSaul

Even by Mersons standards, that's embarrassing. I reckon Cavani is up there with both of them as well.

batistuta9

BetterCallSaul wrote: »

Even by Mersons standards, that's embarrassing. I reckon Cavani is up there with both of them as well.

It's like a comment you'd here from someone who didn't want to hear the other side of an argument/someone very set in their ways and didn't like change in response to something

carlop

BetterCallSaul wrote: »

Even by Mersons standards, that's embarrassing. I reckon Cavani is up there with both of them as well.

Yeah Cavani deserves to be mentioned in the same category.

It's weird how similar Cavani and Falcao are.

inmyday

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

2 best strikers on the planet.

Is messi and Ronaldo not strikers though? Im not being smart by the way.
Just saying, in my opinion, the both of them were wingers when they were younger, but now are usually played as a striker. Especially messi. I know ronaldo is is usually behind Higuain or benzema, but I still consider him an out and out forward.

klose

inmyday wrote: »

Is messi and Ronaldo not strikers though? Im not being smart by the way.
Just saying, in my opinion, the both of them were wingers when they were younger, but now are usually played as a striker. Especially messi. I know ronaldo is is usually behind Higuain or benzema, but I still consider him an out and out forward.

Ronaldo is famously a left winger, messi plays central in a free role of sorts he wonders around.

Blatter

I think there is very little between Falcao and van Persie in terms of finishing ability, Falcao probably marginally ahead in that department. In terms of all round play - passing, creativity, set piece ability and bringing others into the game, van Persie is a clear level ahead imo. Not to say Falcao's not very good in those departments (apart from set pieces), van Persie is just exceptional.

With regards Merson, he's clueless but it's nothing new. He says things equally as stupid every other week.

Winston Payne

Falcao's workrate is brilliant as well, he presses from the front excellently, works the whole defence.


The way that I see it, there is a clutch of brilliant number 9's around at the minute who have been sheer quality over the last eighteen months, and that's van Persie, Falcao, Cavani and Ibrahimovic(I know he plays a little bit deeper sometimes, I'd still consider him a number 9, especially if van Persie is). Why can't we just enjoy them FFS? It's brilliant to watch, to see players like those totally in command of their position, confident experienced players, making the right decisions more often that not, the clinicalness, the explosiveness, the game knowledge. It's a priveledge to watch.

Blatter

Winston Payne wrote: »

Falcao's workrate is brilliant as well, he presses from the front excellently, works the whole defence.


The way that I see it, there is a clutch of brilliant number 9's around at the minute who have been sheer quality over the last eighteen months, and that's van Persie, Falcao, Cavani and Ibrahimovic(I know he plays a little bit deeper sometimes, I'd still consider him a number 9, especially if van Persie is). Why can't we just enjoy them FFS? It's brilliant to watch, to see players like those totally in command of their position, confident experienced players, making the right decisions more often that not, the clinicalness, the explosiveness, the game knowledge. It's a priveledge to watch.

Who says they don't?

You can compare two players and still enjoy watching both of them.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

I would make the argument that United have been absolute turd this year in most games, and defensively all over the place. Performance level has been so much worse than last year, leaving Van Persie to make up the difference. Rooney couldn't have bailed out United this season the way Van Persie has.

Nah, not having that. United haven't been as bad as you portray. A few bad games but mostly comfortable. Also, we're dealing in hypotheticals at this point. The best reference point when you get into those argument is the recent past. Goals would have come from somewhere. The season before last, Berbatov of all people stepped up and helped United to the title with a 20 goal haul.

I'm not saying that RVP hasn't improved United. I'm saying that they would still be challenging.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Nah, not having that. United haven't been as bad as you portray. A few bad games but mostly comfortable. Also, we're dealing in hypotheticals at this point. The best reference point when you get into those argument is the recent past. Goals would have come from somewhere. The season before last, Berbatov of all people stepped up and helped United to the title with a 20 goal haul.

I'm not saying that RVP hasn't improved United. I'm saying that they would still be challenging.

Berbatov of all people? Berba is class. Better than both Hernandez and Welbeck.

I maintain that United's performance levels this season have been fairly poor for a league leader.

Courtesy Flush

The Sky pundits arent really blessed with intelligence, but Merson stands out as thick even there

Felexicon

Morzadec wrote: »

Very little to call between them. Each has qualities the other doesn't have. Both are quality.

I totally disagree that United would be where they are or close to where they are without RVP this season. United have started leaking an alarming amount of goals this season (far more than last) yet stay at the top of the pile due to their attack. RVP is the centre of that attack.

Also United have scored a ridiculously high 17 goals from set-pieces this season, far more than any other team in the league. The average is about 7. I'm not sure how many are a direct result of RVP, but his delivery from corners is quality and he carries a set-piece threat too.

I imagine United would be about 6 or 7 points worse off with no RVP this year, although it's really hard to say.

So still top of the league but nowhere near were they are now?
Ok

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

Berbatov of all people? Berba is class. Better than both Hernandez and Welbeck.

I maintain that United's performance levels this season have been fairly poor for a league leader.

You are misinterpreting what I meant. It's not that I think that Berba was a poor player. He just never once showed at United that he was capable of fitting into the style of play to the point that he could step up and be the league's top goalscorer.

When Rooney was dicking about with his contract that season, no United fan thought, "At least we have Berba, he's suddenly going to get us the goals to win us the league." And yet, for all intents and purposes, he did.

I'll state my position: If United didn't have RVP, they'd be, at worst, a close second at this point of the season.

Where do you reckon United would be?

Moneymaker

In terms of No.9s, there's very little between Cavani, RVP and Falcao.

Merson is an idiot and always has been.

The_Kew_Tour

I say Falcao cost Merson few quid on First Goalscorer bet or something before for him to say that.

Morzadec

Felexicon wrote: »

So still top of the league but nowhere near were they are now?
Ok

Well firstly there's a massive difference between being 7 points clear or being just a point clear. Just to be clear this is what I meant - I think United would still be challenging for the league without him, but they would not be having an easy time of it.

And secondly if they were 7 points worse off, with a slightly lower goal difference that the dropped points imply, then they would not in fact be top of the league.

Anyway, back to the debate, if we're including Cavani where do the likes of Ibrahimovic feature? I haven't seen lots of Cavani but I would place RVP and Falcao in a slightly higher category than the others.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You are misinterpreting what I meant. It's not that I think that Berba was a poor player. He just never once showed at United that he was capable of fitting into the style of play to the point that he could step up and be the league's top goalscorer.

When Rooney was dicking about with his contract that season, no United fan thought, "At least we have Berba, he's suddenly going to get us the goals to win us the league." And yet, for all intents and purposes, he did.

I'll state my position: If United didn't have RVP, they'd be, at worst, a close second at this point of the season.

Where do you reckon United would be?

In a title battle, probably one they'd eventually lose to City. With RVP it looks like they could pull away completely. Goals in both games against Pool, against Chelsea, City, And Arsenal. Speaks for itself.

smileyj1987

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I say Falcao cost Merson few quid on First Goalscorer bet or something before for him to say that.

Maybe Merson is back to his old lifestyle , its the only way it could make sense in my eyes .

Morzadec

CSF wrote: »

In a title battle, probably one they'd eventually lose to City. With RVP it looks like they could pull away completely. Goals in both games against Pool, against Chelsea, City, And Arsenal. Speaks for itself.

And not just a goal today, but a beauty of a delivery for the 2nd.

United up to 18 set-piece goals from 22 games - frighteningly efficient from set-pieces. I would wager Van Persie has been involved in the majority of these goals.

Fromthetrees

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Maybe Merson is back to his old lifestyle , its the only way it could make sense in my eyes .

Maybe Merson is payed a large amount of money by Sky to talk up the EPL. Their La Liga coverage would be a fraction of why their subscribers pay top dollar to have Sky Sports.

He may be a recovering alco and a bit dim as a result but he knows what side his bread is buttered on.

Going by the coverage on Sky Sports News of EPL vrs. La Liga I'd say it's about 90% vrs. 10% when the two are compared. They cater for what most of their subscribers want basically.

It's an over the top sensationalist comment to make but in the context of why it's made it makes sense.


Gary Neville is the only analyst that actually helps me learn more about the game on the Sky.

pickarooney

Does RVP wear velcro maybe?

Fuzzy_Dunlop

pickarooney wrote: »

Does RVP wear velcro maybe?

Nah, Falcao Lost the use of his thumbs.

Hulk Hands

CSF wrote: »

I maintain that United's performance levels this season have been fairly poor for a league leader.

This has been bandied about a bit, even by United fans and I think it's unfair. United now have their record points total after 22 games. What has been a poor year defensively has overshadowed the excellent attacking play, and the huge number of goals scored. United have now beaten all their major rivals aswell bar Spurs, including City and Chelsea away. What United are doing to the rest of the league is impressive. To do it despite the ridiculous luck with injuries is extraordinary

srfc19

Owen_S wrote: »

Apart from Gary Neville, there isn't a single person on Sky who's opinion should be taken seriously.

The same Gary Neville who gave Wellbeck MOTM yesterday? Granted he's usually pretty good, but that was madness!!

J. Marston wrote: »

How does that clown get paid good money to talk about football on TV? He's fúcking clueless! Honestly, pick a random poster on here and they probably know more than that fool.

Christ, he really does annoy me...

You mustn't have read many posts on here!!

MrKingsley

Morzadec wrote: »

Anyway, back to the debate, if we're including Cavani where do the likes of Ibrahimovic feature? I haven't seen lots of Cavani but I would place RVP and Falcao in a slightly higher category than the others.

Havent seen a huge amount of cavani either but hes always impressive in the CL and internationals. Id agree with you that hes just off the other two from what ive seen.

Ibra is somewhere in between I think. Hes going to win the french league on his ownsome this year. Hes been unreal this season. But to me his ego takes away from him slightly whereas the other two seem more modest about their abilities.

CSF

Hulk Hands wrote: »

This has been bandied about a bit, even by United fans and I think it's unfair. United now have their record points total after 22 games. What has been a poor year defensively has overshadowed the excellent attacking play, and the huge number of goals scored. United have now beaten all their major rivals aswell bar Spurs, including City and Chelsea away. What United are doing to the rest of the league is impressive. To do it despite the ridiculous luck with injuries is extraordinary

I'm putting the excellent goal tally down to Van Persie mostly.

kryogen

Ibra is one of the greatest to ever lace up a pair of boots

Falcao is a different type of striker to RVP, and at the moment I am currently thoroughly enjoying watching both

kryogen

CSF wrote: »

I'm putting the excellent goal tally down to Van Persie mostly.

Thats a pretty big flaw

Logic and history would disagree. I am pretty sure someone else has posted in response to this stuff already though so Ill leave it off

CSF

kryogen wrote: »

Thats a pretty big flaw

Logic and history would disagree. I am pretty sure someone else has posted in response to this stuff already though so Ill leave it off

Past United teams were much stronger.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

In a title battle, probably one they'd eventually lose to City. With RVP it looks like they could pull away completely. Goals in both games against Pool, against Chelsea, City, And Arsenal. Speaks for itself.

Mah, it's all speculation really. I reckon they'd probably still win. Goals have never really been a problem for United. Pretty sure Rooney scored in almost every game against the big 4 last season.

eagle eye

The biggest attribute RVP has added to United is his set piece ability. They have lots of players who can score goals but his set piece expertise creates even more chances for them.

Falcao is a different type of player and a better footballer imo.

Ibra is the best striker on the planet I think.

kryogen

CSF wrote: »

Past United teams were much stronger.

We have been hearing that "this current United side is the weakest for years" for about 5 years now tbh

Both are fantastic strikers.

Paul Merson

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Mah, it's all speculation really. I reckon they'd probably still win. Goals have never really been a problem for United. Pretty sure Rooney scored in almost every game against the big 4 last season.

Neither game against City. Only one of the games against Arsenal. 50% strikerate is grand like but RVP is in a whole new world.

CSF

kryogen wrote: »

We have been hearing that "this current United side is the weakest for years" for about 5 years now tbh

Well this is the first time I've thought it. The lessening of Nani and Valencia as a force has had a big impact for me.

L'prof

Without van Persie, United would have less points but they'd still be there or there abouts and scoring goals. They always are. Ferguson gets the most out of his players, I look forward to the day he leaves, as I reckon he's the key to their consistency.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

Neither game against City. Only one of the games against Arsenal. 50% strikerate is grand like but RVP is in a whole new world.

Ah heyor, that's a bit disingenuous and a massive disservice to his season last year. For a brief overview, just taking the top 4 and adding in Chelsea and Liverpool as they're huge games for United:

Scored a hat-trick against Arsenal, goals against Spurs in both games, Chelsea in both games, Liverpool in both games, two goals against City in the cup, 3 against Bilbao. He got 27 in the PL alone, like.

I think you're just barreling along with your argument and shoe-horning stats in to fit. I'd also argue that Rooney's overall game and the value he added to the side last year through his overall play had a bigger impact on United than Van Persie is having this year.

We could maybe argue that without Rooney and Nani through injury, Van Persie's goals have been essential, and I wouldn't disagree. With Rooney and Nani fit, though, and no RVP, I reckon we'd still be at the top.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Ah heyor, that's a bit disingenuous and a massive disservice to his season last year. For a brief overview, just taking the top 4 and adding in Chelsea and Liverpool as they're huge games for United:

Scored a hat-trick against Arsenal, goals against Spurs in both games, Chelsea in both games, Liverpool in both games, two goals against City in the cup, 3 against Bilbao. He got 27 in the PL alone, like.

I think you're just barreling along with your argument and shoe-horning stats in to fit. I'd also argue that Rooney's overall game and the value he added to the side last year through his overall play had a bigger impact on United than Van Persie is having this year.

We could maybe argue that without Rooney and Nani through injury, Van Persie's goals have been essential, and I wouldn't disagree. With Rooney and Nani fit, though, and no RVP, I reckon we'd still be at the top.

Didn't even click with me that Spurs finished ahead of Chelsea. When posting that I was thinking I was referring to the top 4.

Rooney and Nani are both really good players that would grace any side, but I don't think you can look past the fact that Van Persie has either scored or assisted almost 50% of United's goals. Colossal contribution to a team who has had to rely on their massive goals scored figure, having conceded 10 goals more than the team below them in the league, and only less than 1 other team in the top 11.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

Didn't even click with me that Spurs finished ahead of Chelsea. When posting that I was thinking I was referring to the top 4.

Rooney and Nani are both really good players that would grace any side, but I don't think you can look past the fact that Van Persie has either scored or assisted almost 50% of United's goals. Colossal contribution to a team who has had to rely on their massive goals scored figure, having conceded 10 goals more than the team below them in the league, and only less than 1 other team in the top 11.

He has had to carry the team due to injury. Two of United's biggest attacking threats have spent decent portions of the season injured or coming back from injury. Their other big attacking signing, Kagawa, has spent most of it injured too. The defence is not having a normal season either. They are better than they have shown but injuries have caused United to barely play the same three defenders in consecutive matches, let alone the same four. We had Carrick playing at CB at the start of the season for a game or two ffs.

RVP has done really well to carry the threat alone but in a normal year, this wouldn't be required. He is currently the focal point of everything because the best options in previous seasons are injured or out of form. The spread of goals would be more even in a normal year. He would probably have only played 75% of the games he has so far, but for injuries.

I suppose my argument boils down to this. RVP has had a big impact because he has had to. If he had never signed for United, goals would still have been scored. The biggest impact he has had is that when Rooney gets injured, it is no longer the doomsday scenario it once was because we have another player capable of carrying the goal burden. 89 points last year without RVP. Only a few teams have managed better than that.

darced

This post has been deleted.

inforfun

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Cant compare Van Nistelrooij and Van Persie. Van persie is much more complete player. I think i once read that Van Nistelrooij never scored from outside the box while at Man Utd.

Bt that aside, it is clear who is the most efficient striker in the world at the moment.......

Dario Cvitanich of Nice:



Schoten = shot attempts.