Pruning Apple Trees

PhotogTom

Yes, another thread on pruning apple trees! I have a mix of spur and tip bearing apple trees. All planted in winter of 2012 or 2011. I pruned them back pretty hard last winter and have a good shape, etc.
Question is - do I need to prune them each year or just prune to shape them? Do I need to prune this year or let them get some size on? They are all M9/M26 rootstock.

Oldtree

the pruning of apples is mixed, in that you are pruning for both shape and to premote fruit generally.

These do pruning training workshops and also grafting:

http://www.fruitandnut.ie/workshops.html

PhotogTom

Do you think I need to prune anyway then?

Oldtree

difficult to say without seeing, can you post a few photos?

qzy

If you have them in a decent shape, justy prune out any diseased, crossing or inward facing branches. Pruning tip bearers can be tricky as they, obviously, bear fruit at the tip only (can make it a sparse looking tree).

Some good help here....
http://www.weekendgardener.net/how-to/prune-apple-trees.htm

Oldtree

Tip-bearing varieties
Prune the previous year’s growth on each main branch and the most vigorous laterals (sideshoots) to the first strong bud. Leave unpruned laterals less than 30cm (1ft) long Cut back a proportion of older fruited wood to a young shoot or leaf bud to reduce congestion
from here:
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=90

But this seems a little clearer:

Where pruning tip bearing varieties differ from spur bearing varieties is that attention must be paid to the young shoots that grew off main branches last year. Those that are less than 9 inches in length can simply be left untouched to bear their fruit next year. The shoots that are longer than 9 inches can be headed back to 4 – 5 buds. These buds will then develop shoots the following summer and become fruitful the summer after that.
from here:
http://www.lecoteau.com/Pruning%20Tip%20Bearing%20Apples%20&%20Varieties.pdf

I was always told to prune spurs back to 4 buds which will lead to 2 new branches from the top two buds and these would then be removed lin the second winter eaving behind 2 spurs,
With tip bearers you also have to prune to encourage new main branches.

monkeynuz

You really should prune every year.

Do not "trim them to shape"

Also make sure the centre of the tree is clear so you could throw a hat through the middle.

I have taken over a garden ( I am a proffessional gardener) which the last gardener just trimmed the Apple trees like bloody shrubs and has made a frightful mess of them and it is my job to make them productive again.

Also with the branches where you see the spurs emerging on the previous years growth, take off all the spurs growing underneath the branh, you don't want too many spurs on each branch either otherwise the fruit will pull the branch right down to the ground.

Hope this helps a bit, any more msg me.

M.

slowburner

Not a pro gardener myself, but a friend is, and he reckons that fruit trees should only be pruned after flowering.
According to him, if they are pruned at any other time, they'll get silverleaf.

monkeynuz

slowburner wrote: »

Not a pro gardener myself, but a friend is, and he reckons that fruit trees should only be pruned after flowering.
According to him, if they are pruned at any other time, they'll get silverleaf.

If you prune them after flowering you will cut all the fruit buds off!

Fruit trees should be pruned during dormancy ie winter. Summer pruning is yet another topic altogether.

The only exception are trained fruit trees such as espalier, fan, cordon etc.

M.

PhotogTom

All good advice and roughly what I understand about pruning. I suppose the real question I have regards their age. Only two year in the ground. Should I not let them get a bit of size? The shape is good on them and I feel like I'm just pruning for the sake pruning.
We got only, at most, 1-2 apples per tree last year but wasn't really expecting much more than that.
Will I get more apples this year if I prune or would I be pruning just to maintain shape? If just for shape, I'm not going to prune this year.

monkeynuz

PhotogTom wrote: »

All good advice and roughly what I understand about pruning. I suppose the real question I have regards their age. Only two year in the ground. Should I not let them get a bit of size? The shape is good on them and I feel like I'm just pruning for the sake pruning.
We got only, at most, 1-2 apples per tree last year but wasn't really expecting much more than that.
Will I get more apples this year if I prune or would I be pruning just to maintain shape? If just for shape, I'm not going to prune this year.

Buds develop on each years' growth.

Don't go mad with pruning but you also don't want too many fruit on each branch.

Try googling rhs apple pruning or similar that may help a bit more.

Gardening is also about trial and error you could just try leaving them this year and see how it works for you and catch up next winter.

It certainly won't kill em.

All the best.

M.

Oldtree

monkeynuz wrote: »

Do not "trim them to shape"

I take it you mean not to treat them like a shrub (lollypop type effect) and mean that you need to prune them into the desired shape of an apple tree, basically a goblet?

monkeynuz

Oldtree wrote: »

I take it you mean not to treat them like a shrub (lollypop type effect) and mean that you need to prune them into the desired shape of an apple tree, basically a goblet?

You have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

The best word I can use is "balance" you want it to produce apple but also look half decent.

I hope this makes sense but I am also typing this on my phone so lengthy explanations have to wait for the PC lol.

M.

dah89

Standard apple and pear trees are pruned in the winter while they are dormant, stone fruit plums,peaches, nectaries and apricots are pruned in the early spring when the sap has started to rise, sometimes they might be starting to flower, the reason is the stone fruit can get a disease called Silver leaf which will eventually kill the tree. Some varieties are more prone to others in getting Silver leaf. For pruning your apple trees the first 4 years are the main time for pruning apple trees and this is to get the shape for the rest of it's existance. After the first 4 years it is light pruning to remove dead, diseased and damaged wood (the 3D's it is known as) and I would add to this crossing branches as they will damage each other. For the first couple of years you are creating the basic shape of the tree. For Irish conditions research has shown the spindle shape (like a pyramid) is best. Always leave the leader(center strongest shoot) and prune this back 1/3 for the first 3-4 years, this promotes side shoots and a strong leader. For the tiers use 4/5 branches pointing out about 2-3feet up from the ground, another 4-5 about another 2-3 feet up and again further up. Anymore than 4/5 side branches(laterals need to be pruned out or rubbed of when young. M26 rootstock grow to about 10-12 feet so you should have 4 tiers. For the lower branches you can tie the branches down to the ground to spread the tree out. As each year goes on you need to keep the center of the tree open, this is so that air and the sun can get in.

Oldtree

dah89 wrote: »

For Irish conditions research has shown the spindle shape (like a pyramid) is best. Always leave the leader(center strongest shoot)

would love to read this please, any chance of a link

dah89

I was at a talk given by Professor Michel Hennerty of UCD about the heritage orchard in UCD, no notes but to grow as a spindle tree is the best for growing apples in Ireland. Also for someone putting in an orchard line the trees up North to south. If was one of the most interesting talks about gardening I have been to and he answered loads of questions on apples and gave a tour of the heritage orchard.

dah89

I remember reading an abstract a while ago on spindle trees and just did a search for it. Try http://www.actahort.org/books/322/322_3.htm

kayner

thank you for the information on the rules etc.

im looking for help in pruning an old apple tree , showing a picture of it would be a great help [a picture speaks a thousand words] to explain the job involved

dah89

Trying to explain, even with pictures is difficult. If you are restoring an old apple tree then it was probably initially pruned in the shape of a goblet. The first year will need to open the centre and remove dead diseased and damaged material. I am sorry I can cannot post anything like pictures as I have not been on this site long enough. If you are around the Dublin area I could visit and explain what needs to be done.