MMLP2 - Eminem 2013 Album

Jason Todd

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Since when have sales had any influence on an album being a flop or not? The industry is a joke, sales are incredibly irrelevant.

Ridiculous. The #1 criteria that an album (or movie for that matter) is judged as a flop or not is commercially, i.e. sales.

I'm not saying that's right, but that's how it is.

If you and me like a new artist but his album flops, then you and me don't matter a ****. That artist is going to find it hard to put out another album. Or can put one out independently but it won't have as good production values etc. Obviously Em and people like that can have a bad album and keep going... you know why? Because they have HUGE SALES behind them.

conor.hogan.2

Jason Todd wrote: »

Obviously Em and people like that can have a bad album and keep going

Or 3 in a row.

HighClass

Jason Todd wrote: »

Ridiculous. The #1 criteria that an album (or movie for that matter) is judged as a flop or not is commercially, i.e. sales.

I'm not saying that's right, but that's how it is.

If you and me like a new artist but his album flops, then you and me don't matter a ****. That artist is going to find it hard to put out another album. Or can put one out independently but it won't have as good production values etc. Obviously Em and people like that can have a bad album and keep going... you know why? Because they have HUGE SALES behind them.

I'm not sure that applys anymore tbh. I listen to lots of artists who have never signed a record deal and have put out loads of albums independently and they stand up to any major release production value wise. You can record an album in your bedroom that sounds as good as somebody recording in a major studio.

Sales really don't count all that much towards anything but the labels getting money. Artists make **** all from album sales, which is why bandcamp is such an amazing site. You can release an album and all the money comes back to you, pure profit, not the tiny profit you'd get if you were signed. The only advantage of a record label nowadays is all the advertising that comes with it.

I'd say MMLP 2 was a flop, not sales wise, but musically it was a flop. The industry is changing and in a few years sales won't matter as much as they do now, with sites like Spotify and now Dre is starting a music streaming service, sales will fall again and albums will have to be viewed by what's on them, not how much they sell.

Sorry for going off topic a bit, even though the ins and outs of hip hop have been discussed in this thread a lot already :P Have to hand it to Em in that sense, no matter what he releases it still gets people talking, whether you love the album or hate it, you'll still be talking about it!

Jason Todd

Yeah, you've made some really good points there. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, I see big sales so the last thing I think is flop!

But even at that I'll go back to my earlier posts and say that musically I wouldn't consider it a flop either. It got mostly good reviews across the board, any of my mates who listened liked it, and personally it's been on in my car for weeks now and hasn't gotten stale.

All subject to opinions of course, but I find it hard to believe that people see this as a flop when Encore, Recovery and Relapse were so bad. This is head and shoulders above them imo.

Boom_Bap

Have to agree with High Class, sales for me don't mean much. Quality of a release is way more important to me.

But, I dont think Bandcamp host an album for free, they do take a percentage from the albums that are not free, or not 'name your price'.

I was reading something from Kristoff Krane I think on the subject recently, although Bandcamp take thier percentage, it's still another medium for non-majors to get thier music out there.

There was also a picture from BK One a while back with the caption something along the lines of 'Oh no, my daughter is destroying a cheque I got in the mail', followed by, 'It's OK, it's only my cheque from Spotify'...it was something like $11 which would probably cost more than that in fees to lodge in a US bank.

But there is the eschelon of artists where sales is a factor, those with a huge commercial drive behind an album, with the big arena tours need to have decent sales behind them.

kryogen

The album is like a fine wine, it really is getting better with each listen, my God I can even sit through Stronger then I Was without skipping (almost every time) now. Its been in the cd player of the car non stop for over 2 weeks at this stage. The little things you notice in each song that you may have missed the first couple of listens keeps you coming back for more. Some of the lyrics/delivery is so clever.

Jason Todd

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Have to agree with High Class, sales for me don't mean much. Quality of a release is way more important to me.

I know what ye are saying, I think my message of what defines a flop is getting lost though. Commercially (in this day and age) and critically the album was a success, widely regarded as a return to form. Therefore, I can't understand it being labelled a flop. The word flop has now lost all meaning by the way. :pac:

kryogen wrote: »

The album is like a fine wine, it really is getting better with each listen, my God I can even sit through Stronger then I Was without skipping (almost every time) now. Its been in the cd player of the car non stop for over 2 weeks at this stage. The little things you notice in each song that you may have missed the first couple of listens keeps you coming back for more. Some of the lyrics/delivery is so clever.

It's the exact same for me. I love catching the double-meanings in the lyrics. He's dialled back the bull**** shock raps and singing (for the most part) and has upped the punchlines and double-meanings, and it's all the better for it.

Stronger Than I Was is still a hopeless tune imo though!

Prodgey

I like stronger than I was, the rapping bit is quite powerful

jonneymendoza

I dont thinkhis diled down the singing. infact i think he sings more on this album then previous ones.

The lyrics are average/awful in most songs which is a huge let down.

There is just soo many better hip hop albums out there that dwarfs this album that it is quite embarassing how some including me rate Drake of all people, above this album.

Its not as if eminem doesnt have the ability because he does!

Why dont he do a proper great album and release it as a mixtape?

Anyways who buys music anyway?

With the likes of spotify you dont ever need to buy music ever again

Prodgey

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Anyways who buys music anyway?

Over 100 million people, obviously.

SeaDaily

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Anyways who buys music anyway?

People who appreciate the time and effort artists put in to making music and who want to give something back.

kryogen

jonneymendoza wrote: »

I dont thinkhis diled down the singing. infact i think he sings more on this album then previous ones.

The lyrics are average/awful in most songs which is a huge let down.

There is just soo many better hip hop albums out there that dwarfs this album that it is quite embarassing how some including me rate Drake of all people, above this album.

Its not as if eminem doesnt have the ability because he does!

Why dont he do a proper great album and release it as a mixtape?

Anyways who buys music anyway?

With the likes of spotify you dont ever need to buy music ever again

Why have you listened to the album so many times when you hate it?

Its All Wright

jonneymendoza wrote: »

I dont thinkhis diled down the singing. infact i think he sings more on this album then previous ones.

The lyrics are average/awful in most songs which is a huge let down.

There is just soo many better hip hop albums out there that dwarfs this album that it is quite embarassing how some including me rate Drake of all people, above this album.

Its not as if eminem doesnt have the ability because he does!

Why dont he do a proper great album and release it as a mixtape?

Anyways who buys music anyway?

With the likes of spotify you dont ever need to buy music ever again

Lyrics are awful?? Id like to see some examples of this cause personally i think Em is as lyrical as ever on this album, his rhyme schemes are metaphors are crazy..i dont know what people expect from him. I agree that he should leave the singing hooks alone, he cant sing but having said that Stronger Than I Was grew on me

Talib Fiasco

"As lyrical as ever" is just not true....his lyrics are decent....but they can't hold a candle to any of his first four albums. It's so easy to distinguish the quality. Compare his Infinite verse to any song on MMLP2 for example....I'm not complaining but to say he's as good as ever lyrically is not true at all.

MD1990

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

"As lyrical as ever" is just not true....his lyrics are decent....but they can't hold a candle to any of his first four albums. It's so easy to distinguish the quality. Compare his Infinite verse to any song on MMLP2 for example....I'm not complaining but to say he's as good as ever lyrically is not true at all.

1st 3 u mean
Encore was terrible & i don't include Infinite as it was never officially released

Talib Fiasco

I do count Infinite as should everyone else. Has some of his greatest lyrics.

Dr. Greenthumb

It's a good album, not a great album but one of the more interesting ones this year imo.

His style & tone is better than his recent releases as well as the lyrical content, it's definitely a step forward as he gets more comfortable recording while clean. It'll be interesting to see how he'll follow up this.

I find it funny how some praise Holy Grail (didn't mind the album but it's pretty average), Yeezuz (of whatever that crap was called), anything Drake puts out and many other artists that rap about complete crap, yet Eminem although he's nowhere near his best and on this occasion has decent content in his raps, gets grief for his lyrical content.

Then again imo anyone that actually can sit down and listen to drake need to have their testosterone levels checked.

Doris300

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

It's a good album, not a great album but one of the more interesting ones this year imo.

His style & tone is better than his recent releases as well as the lyrical content, it's definitely a step forward as he gets more comfortable recording while clean. It'll be interesting to see how he'll follow up this.

I find it funny how some praise Holy Grail (didn't mind the album but it's pretty average), Yeezuz (of whatever that crap was called), anything Drake puts out and many other artists that rap about complete crap, yet Eminem although he's nowhere near his best and on this occasion has decent content in his raps, gets grief for his lyrical content.

Then again imo anyone that actually can sit down and listen to drake need to have their testosterone levels checked.

Yeezus and NWTS are in a different league than this album. Eminem can't compete with them in making an album anymore. Nothing Em has done in the last 10 years can compete. I'm obviously not talking rapping skills because we know Em is one of the best at that and that doesn't straight away give him a good album.

Dr. Greenthumb

Doris300 wrote: »

Yeezus and NWTS are in a different league than this album. Eminem can't compete with them in making an album anymore. Nothing Em has done in the last 10 years can compete. I'm obviously not talking rapping skills because we know Em is one of the best at that and that doesn't straight away give him a good album.

Well it's all opinion, Yeezus I think is painful listening, a few good tracks but not enough to make me keep putting it on. Drake, he's just too whiney for me.

I know skills doesn't just give Em a good album, did I say that? His previous few albums were crap but I do think this one is a lot better and his tone and delivery are more in line with early releases rather than his more recent ones. He still has flows in there that no other rapper could pull off or put together.

Straight away a good album, he hasn't had one since he came off the drugs but 4 attempts later he has progressed promisingly. He could put out another 10 and I don't think he'd reach the heights of the SSLP which is my favorite.

Its All Wright

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

"As lyrical as ever" is just not true....his lyrics are decent....but they can't hold a candle to any of his first four albums. It's so easy to distinguish the quality. Compare his Infinite verse to any song on MMLP2 for example....I'm not complaining but to say he's as good as ever lyrically is not true at all.

I think Brainless from MMLP2 sounds like the old Eminem

"Cuz I feel like a little bitch's, predicaments, despicable
I'm sick of just getting pushed, it's ridiculous
I look like a freaking woos, a pussy
This kid just took my stick of liquorice
And threw my sticker books in a picker bush
I wanna kick his toosh, but I was six and shook
This ****er was 12 and was 6 foot, with a vicious hook
He hit me, I fell, I got back up, all I did was book, now there's using your head "

With Eminem hes judged differently to every other rapper,When he first burst on the scene he was hungry and had plenty to say. Now if he raps about his family issues,makes jokes of celebs or shock raps its like we've heard it all before, whats Nas,Jay or any other rapper with longevity in rap being doing?? Its just Eminem has a limited amount of content thats hes recycling over & over but it sounded better first time around when hip hop was probably going through its best period of producing of quality music. Em forgot how to rap during his drugs addiction/depression period. It was like a soccer player coming back from a long term injury, but with the MMLP2 its him back to his best, hip hop is evolved & its not going to sound like 2002 again and neithe is Em

.jacksparrow.

Its All Wright wrote: »

I think Brainless from MMLP2 sounds like the old Eminem

"Cuz I feel like a little bitch's, predicaments, despicable
I'm sick of just getting pushed, it's ridiculous
I look like a freaking woos, a pussy
This kid just took my stick of liquorice
And threw my sticker books in a picker bush
I wanna kick his toosh, but I was six and shook
This ****er was 12 and was 6 foot, with a vicious hook
He hit me, I fell, I got back up, all I did was book, now there's using your head "

With Eminem hes judged differently to every other rapper,When he first burst on the scene he was hungry and had plenty to say. Now if he raps about his family issues,makes jokes of celebs or shock raps its like we've heard it all before, whats Nas,Jay or any other rapper with longevity in rap being doing?? Its just Eminem has a limited amount of content thats hes recycling over & over but it sounded better first time around when hip hop was probably going through its best period of producing of quality music. Em forgot how to rap during his drugs addiction/depression period. It was like a soccer player coming back from a long term injury, but with the MMLP2 its him back to his best, hip hop is evolved & its not going to sound like 2002 again and neithe is Em

Hasn't he wrapped about the school bully something like 15 times before!

Adolescenteen

Its All Wright wrote: »

I think Brainless from MMLP2 sounds like the old Eminem

"Cuz I feel like a little bitch's, predicaments, despicable
I'm sick of just getting pushed, it's ridiculous
I look like a freaking woos, a pussy
This kid just took my stick of liquorice
And threw my sticker books in a picker bush
I wanna kick his toosh, but I was six and shook
This ****er was 12 and was 6 foot, with a vicious hook
He hit me, I fell, I got back up, all I did was book, now there's using your head "

With Eminem hes judged differently to every other rapper,When he first burst on the scene he was hungry and had plenty to say. Now if he raps about his family issues,makes jokes of celebs or shock raps its like we've heard it all before, whats Nas,Jay or any other rapper with longevity in rap being doing?? Its just Eminem has a limited amount of content thats hes recycling over & over but it sounded better first time around when hip hop was probably going through its best period of producing of quality music. Em forgot how to rap during his drugs addiction/depression period. It was like a soccer player coming back from a long term injury, but with the MMLP2 its him back to his best, hip hop is evolved & its not going to sound like 2002 again and neithe is Em

Brainless is a great song, but Evil Twin is my favourite song with some great lyrics, including these ones in the final verse:

"**** top five, bitch, I'm top four
And that includes Biggie and Pac, whore
And I got an Evil Twin
So who the **** do you think that third and that fourth spot's for?"

And

"But all bull**** aside, I hit a stride
Still Shady inside, hair every bit is dyed
As it used to be when I first introduced y'all to my skittish side
And blamed it on him when they tried to criticize
Cause we are the same, bitch"

On the Deluxe songs, Groundhog Day is fantastic with my favourite part being:

"Promising complete dominance, Sugar Ray Robinson
I'm in a league Muhammad's in, Ali's my colleague bombing 'em
Probably end up on top of 'em, stomping 'em like Ndamukong
I'm Russian like a Ukrainian, LaDainian Tomlinson
Flow vomits in your face, competitors fall at my waist
You spit a rhyme, I spit in a rhyme's face"

Dr. Greenthumb

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Hasn't he wrapped about the school bully something like 15 times before!

Hasn't Jay Z, Nas etc. etc. rapped about money, women and drugs for the majority of every album they have ever done but no one keeps going on about it. Different rules / expectations for eminem I guess.

Its All Wright

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Hasn't he wrapped about the school bully something like 15 times before!

That was exactly my point..his content is repetitive & he gets that held against him when every rapper does the exact same when there talking about money, women & success or whatever else??

Adolescenteen wrote: »

Brainless is a great song, but Evil Twin is my favourite song with some great lyrics, including these ones in the final verse:

"**** top five, bitch, I'm top four
And that includes Biggie and Pac, whore
And I got an Evil Twin
So who the **** do you think that third and that fourth spot's for?"

And

"But all bull**** aside, I hit a stride
Still Shady inside, hair every bit is dyed
As it used to be when I first introduced y'all to my skittish side
And blamed it on him when they tried to criticize
Cause we are the same, bitch"

On the Deluxe songs, Groundhog Day is fantastic with my favourite part being:

"Promising complete dominance, Sugar Ray Robinson
I'm in a league Muhammad's in, Ali's my colleague bombing 'em
Probably end up on top of 'em, stomping 'em like Ndamukong
I'm Russian like a Ukrainian, LaDainian Tomlinson
Flow vomits in your face, competitors fall at my waist
You spit a rhyme, I spit in a rhyme's face"

Dope songs with great lyrics, to me hes as lyrical as ever. I dont think a lot of people understand what lyricism is. Ive seen Drake, J Cole etc being mentioned in this thread. Just because Drake sounds good doesnt make him a great rapper. He can sing & make good songs but lyrically hes nothing. If your looking for lyrcism you usually have to look beyond the mainstream

I see people qouting there top 5 alive (not here)and there something like

Lil Wayne
Drake
Kanye
J Cole
Rick Ross

Or

2Pac
Biggie
Dre (who doesnt write his own raps)
Ice Cube
Snoop Dogg

I cant take anyone seriously or even have discussion about hip hop when they qoute that garbage. I appreciate people like these rappers & i like them myself but you usually know what kind of rap fan your talking to by their top 5. If thats your top 5 above, you just like the commercial element of rap music.

jonneymendoza

Prodgey wrote: »

Over 100 million people, obviously.

over more that dont and use spotify.

the industry is changing again and soon u dont need to buy songs anymore.

im not talking about pirates here but users of spotify. no need to buy music anymore to be legit

.jacksparrow.

I don't think he writes the raps himself, there seems to be a group including him who write them.

Kylo Ren

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I don't think he writes the raps himself, there seems to be a group including him who write them.

****ing hell.

.jacksparrow.

Keno wrote: »

****ing hell.

Jesus just asking..

Dr. Greenthumb

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Jesus just asking..

You didn't ask though.

From listening to interviews with producers etc. down the years I think he does write all his own raps but then there may be some tweaking once it get laid over the track and credit is given to the people who have input in that process.

Also if the artist the sings the hook writes that part obviously that person get credited as a part of the song writing group.

Do you not think if someone else wrote his raps that there wouldn't be other rappers blasting out complex rhyming schemes like him, sure if that was the case all they have to do is pay someone to write it.

SeaDaily

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I don't think he writes the raps himself, there seems to be a group including him who write them.

Are you for real? Such an ignorant comment, do you not know hip-hop at all?!