More Mad_Lad Madness. Prius V S3 on Gas

Bigus · 14-01-2013 12:36am

Deleted User wrote: »

No denying that electricity is the cheapest to drive on and the Leaf would pay back after 5 years. No new car can pay for itself with petrol or diesel costs, not even LPG.

I don't think I'll be converting the Prius, I don't know how long I'll be keeping it and I need to find out if the valves give trouble.

Why not do the figures on an LPG Prius , I assume its paid for and a conversion would be paid for in no time compared to a new electric car. Use the savings for a track car or a house. I drove a pruis with 273000 miles on it and it was perfect.
Don't forget with the miles you're doing it'll kill the resale of any new car, electric or not.
Why not do the figures ?

Photoshop · 14-01-2013 1:55am

Bigus wrote: »

Why not do the figures on an LPG Prius , I assume its paid for and a conversion would be paid for in no time compared to a new electric car. Use the savings for a track car or a house. I drove a pruis with 273000 miles on it and it was perfect.
Don't forget with the miles you're doing it'll kill the resale of any new car, electric or not.
Why not do the figures ?

Who in there right mind buys a brand new S3 and voids warranty converting to lpg, to save 30 euro a week.

Now buying a 2002 S3 225 for 5k and converting that to lpg, makes financial sense, 1.8 too with lowish tax.

Any decent lpg garage locater search engine?

Only know of one place in Co.Limerick, 40km for my house in the city.

14-01-2013 11:06am

Bigus wrote: »

Why not do the figures on an LPG Prius , I assume its paid for and a conversion would be paid for in no time compared to a new electric car. Use the savings for a track car or a house. I drove a pruis with 273000 miles on it and it was perfect.
Don't forget with the miles you're doing it'll kill the resale of any new car, electric or not.
Why not do the figures ?

Indeed my mileage means resale value takes a nose dive even after the first year.

The Prius is paid for and yes converting it would be a good Idea, but it's unknown yet how LPG would effect the valves, it could end up costing more than the conversion to repair if something went wrong, I hear Jap cars are not the greatest when converting to LPG. I know you can add lubricant but still.

It's also unknown how long the battery would last in the Leaf, one report in the U.S from the only known highest mileage Leaf owner on the mynissanleaf forum has said he has seen a 20% loss of capacity after 60,000 Miles.

Now that could be due to heat or using 100% battery every day or multiple fast charges per day.

If I had a work charger and with our cool climate I see no reason I wouldn't get 200,000 miles from the Leaf or 8 years driving at my current mileage simply because I would be using 50-60 % of the battery every day and 0 fast charging. Even with time itself I see no reason 200,000 miles can't be got from the Leaf. And in 8 years batteries will be very cheap, certainly replacement packs for the Leaf.

Anyone who travels to the Luas red cow would have huge benefits because they could charge there. The more you keep it topped up the better and the more to 80% better again.

Anyone doing 8,000-12,000 miles a year should see many years use in the Leaf 10+, time would be the biggest factor with small mileage drivers. Also those who charge to 80% will see the longest life.

But I look at it like this, I could either buy an older car and spend it on fuel or LPG for maybe 10 euro a week cheaper than the Prius or buy a new leaf and it's paid for in 5 years with the money I'm spending on the Prius already.

Anyone getting 40 mpg or less, then electric would pay for itself in 3-4 years with the same 25K miles I do a year (currently) After that you got some seriously cheap motoring, not as much fun as an S3 for sure but the cheapest.

You cant't say a normal car will ever pay for itself with the cost of fuel, even lpg.

Anyway I didn't get the full time position so there will be no Leaf yet.

14-01-2013 11:07am

Photoshop wrote: »

Who in there right mind buys a brand new S3 and voids warranty converting to lpg, to save 30 euro a week.

Now buying a 2002 S3 225 for 5k and converting that to lpg, makes financial sense, 1.8 too with lowish tax.

Any decent lpg garage locater search engine?

Only know of one place in Co.Limerick, 40km for my house in the city.

I don't think anyone suggested buying a new S3 ?

I was just comparing the cost of running the older S3 V new V Prius on LPG V Diesel V Electric.

Gumbo · 14-01-2013 12:54pm

My long term average in my 2001 Audi S3 was 21MPG. Maybe the newer ones are alot more economical.

tossy · 14-01-2013 1:12pm

kceire wrote: »

My long term average in my 2001 Audi S3 was 21MPG. Maybe the newer ones are alot more economical.

Mine is around 24 constantly,no way you are going to see those figures from the newer ones.Audi i think quoted 32 mpg for the 8L.

Not to mention LPG isn't as economical and you loose some horse power when running on it,although i'm not sure if that is true.

However i think it's great idea i'm all for any car over a prius.

Matt Simis · 14-01-2013 1:16pm

tossy wrote: »

Not to mention LPG isn't as economical and you loose some horse power when running on it,although i'm not sure if that is true.

10% worse economy for 50% of the cost..!
BHP is "moved" around, torque comes in lower which means peak BHP is slightly less, yet the car feels a little more responsive. Ive seen 5% peak loss as a floated about figure. This is on cars not "tuned" for LPG, IMO a 100octane remap suits both fuels in our climate (on most cars, not highly tuned).

tossy · 14-01-2013 1:26pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

10% worse economy for 50% of the cost..!
.

Sorry that was the Irish in me

a country where we spend 24k on a new car to save 400e a year on road tax.

September1 · 14-01-2013 3:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The Prius is paid for and yes converting it would be a good Idea, but it's unknown yet how LPG would effect the valves, it could end up costing more than the conversion to repair if something went wrong, I hear Jap cars are not the greatest when converting to LPG. I know you can add lubricant but still.

Electric cars are bad for environment, they have toxic metals inside. Also their range is like 10km. Battery dies after 1 year. Max speed is 50km/h. In same news Jap cars are not greatest for converting to LPG. Someone please tell Mitsubishi as they sell (not in Ireland) cars with LPG.

Matt Simis · 14-01-2013 3:37pm

September1 wrote: »

Electric cars are bad for environment, they have toxic metals inside. Also their range is like 10km. Battery dies after 1 year. Max speed is 50km/h. In same news Jap cars are not greatest for converting to LPG. Someone please tell Mitsubishi as they sell (not in Ireland) cars with LPG.

And your point its what?

September1 · 14-01-2013 3:41pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

And your point its what?

There are LPG sets that do not work with certain engines, but such generalizations are useless. LPG technology is not dead, and what was not possible few years ago would be possible now. Of course certain posters are very loud when others voice useless generalizations about EV, yet they play same game with LPG. Is it clear now?

14-01-2013 3:42pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

And your point its what?

Sarcasm.

Matt Simis · 14-01-2013 3:58pm

September1 wrote: »

There are LPG sets that do not work with certain engines, but such generalizations are useless. LPG technology is not dead, and what was not possible few years ago would be possible now. Of course certain posters are very loud when others voice useless generalizations about EV, yet they play same game with LPG. Is it clear now?

All he said was he heard it wasnt as applicable to Jap engines, which from actually owning an LPG car and researching them in-depth, I found to be a common theme from LPG fitters. Im sure there are Jap engines that its fine with, but for the sake of creating a frame of reference that relevant to the average Irish motorist/Boards.ie poster, some generalisations are needed.

RoverJames wrote: »

Sarcasm.

I know it was sarcasm, but thats not a "point" or in anyway intelligent or conducive to education/understanding.

14-01-2013 6:37pm

tossy wrote: »

Sorry that was the Irish in me a country where we spend 24k on a new car to save 400e a year on road tax.

I don't think that's the intention people have. I think those that buy a new car want to spend as little as possible on road tax, rather than the low tax being the reason for buying new.

14-01-2013 7:50pm

tossy wrote: »

Mine is around 24 constantly,no way you are going to see those figures from the newer ones.Audi i think quoted 32 mpg for the 8L.

Not to mention LPG isn't as economical and you loose some horse power when running on it,although i'm not sure if that is true.

However i think it's great idea i'm all for any car over a prius.

Probably wouldn't see 40 mpg for the 2013 S3 if someone was to use most of those 300 horses. But who knows what tricks they did to improve economy ?

I wonder what it could do unlimited ?

14-01-2013 8:11pm

Photoshop wrote: »

Who in there right mind buys a brand new S3 and voids warranty converting to lpg, to save 30 euro a week.

Now buying a 2002 S3 225 for 5k and converting that to lpg, makes financial sense, 1.8 too with lowish tax.

Any decent lpg garage locater search engine?

Only know of one place in Co.Limerick, 40km for my house in the city.

I wasn't suggesting to buy a "new" S3 I was just comparing the older S3 and the new S3 on LPG compared to the Prius on petrol.

A 40 mpg petrol car on LPG would cost 42 euro's to do my 740 kms compared to 58-60 in the Prius at 58Mpg

A 50 mpg Diesel would cost 65 Euro's

Payback of conversion in the Prius would be 8 months.

Converted Prius at 58 mpg would cost 29 Euro's or 27 Euro's based on summer price or if I get rid of those tyres and get back my 65 mpg would cost around 24.80 to do 740 kms.

If you want to add 10% for inefficiencies ? go ahead.

tossy · 14-01-2013 8:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think that's the intention people have. I think those that buy a new car want to spend as little as possible on road tax, rather than the low tax being the reason for buying new.

I know a few people who changed soley for the reason of road tax,ok they didn't spend 24k but they would have paid out 6/7k to come up 2 or so years.just to save 400 odd a year,the funny thing is all of these people were getting the car on finance - the mind boggles.

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably wouldn't see 40 mpg for the 2013 S3 if someone was to use most of those 300 horses. But who knows what tricks they did to improve economy ?

I wonder what it could do unlimited ?

Modern petrol cars are improving in economy slightly i think,but it's not what they do to improve economy in general. The real scam is what they do to improve economy in their tests - running thinner low friction tyres etc.

14-01-2013 9:41pm

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/93257-s3-fuel-consumption-now-added-poll.html

Seems people are getting 26-29 mpg and over 30 in cases where they probably drive normally.

That isn't bad for a car with 265 hp or remap to 300. And cost to run of a Prius on petrol !

14-01-2013 10:02pm

tossy wrote: »

I know a few people who changed soley for the reason of road tax,ok they didn't spend 24k but they would have paid out 6/7k to come up 2 or so years.just to save 400 odd a year,the funny thing is all of these people were getting the car on finance - the mind boggles.

Could it be that they genuinely wanted to come up 2 years and it so happened that what they chose was just cheaper to tax ?

Modern petrol cars are improving in economy slightly i think,but it's not what they do to improve economy in general. The real scam is what they do to improve economy in their tests - running thinner low friction tyres etc.

I agree that most fuel economy tests are BS, I think the euro test doesn't even involve road testing ?

14-01-2013 10:25pm

Just for the Laugh I got a quote from Zurich on a 08 S3 265 hp 34K miles 17,000 Euro.

I would have got a quote from 123 but they didn't have an S3 listed LOL

Quote 600 just 100 more than the Prius hahahaha they joy's of getting old !

I remember when I used to get refused for a 1.4 petrol 70 hp LMAO

It's mad to think what they cost new though isn't it ?

710 euro's tax is a pain though, but worth it ? hell yeah every penny I'd say ! :-)

Ah seriously though wouldn't ye want to be mad paying for a diesel when you can have a machine like this, no ?

14-01-2013 10:36pm

tossy wrote: »

.......the funny thing is all of these people were getting the car on finance - the mind boggles...........

They probably claim there are much better things to be doing with your savings than buying a car and that the finance is the way to go. Madness having all that money tied up at once when you could be investing it etc etc etc.

14-01-2013 10:45pm

RoverJames wrote: »

They probably claim there are much better things to be doing with your savings than buying a car and that the finance is the way to go. Madness having all that money tied up at once when you could be investing it etc etc etc.

Yeah but not everyone has the cash to buy a car.

But yeah is you have savings if you are spending it it's better to buy the car with it than pay interest. Having said that there are pretty good interest rates from the garages these days.

14-01-2013 11:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but not everyone has the cash to buy a car...........

:eek:

Really?

I thought all the 520d etc were all bought with cash, silly me.

14-01-2013 11:05pm

RoverJames wrote: »

:eek:

Really?

I thought all the 520d etc were all bought with cash, silly me.

HAHA

Tea 1000 · 15-01-2013 1:02pm

There's a bhp limit on engines on one of the LPG conversion sites. I assume it's because they can't get over a certain level of fuel flow of gas once the engine requires it to produce more than a certain bhp, but I'm only guessing. But 150bhp on 4 cylinder cars would certainly rule out an S3!

galwaytt · 15-01-2013 7:15pm

RoverJames wrote: »

...Madness having all that money tied up at once when you could be investing it etc etc etc.

LOL - investing - LOL........ :pac: :pac:

...here, wannabuy a house...........cheap, like..... ?

.....better off buying the 520d these days. It couldn't possibly lose any more than a house.........

15-01-2013 7:47pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

There's a bhp limit on engines on one of the LPG conversion sites. I assume it's because they can't get over a certain level of fuel flow of gas once the engine requires it to produce more than a certain bhp, but I'm only guessing. But 150bhp on 4 cylinder cars would certainly rule out an S3!

I never thought there would be a limit, I checked on the website of the garage in Kilcullen and indeed they said up to 150 hp.

I would have imagined that to be a limit of the kits ?

That's a pain if it applies to all conversions.

Thanks for pointing that out.

samih · 15-01-2013 8:09pm

There are ways around it like running on petrol when over 150 bhp is needed or fitting a dual kit. Some folks have also drilled injectors to get more power.

15-01-2013 8:37pm

samih wrote: »

There are ways around it like running on petrol when over 150 bhp is needed or fitting a dual kit. Some folks have also drilled injectors to get more power.

Well the benefits are wiped out really if you need petrol. Even if it's for over 150 hp you are still spending more than you need to.

Maybe there is a more expensive kit for more power ?

Tea 1000 · 16-01-2013 10:54am

samih wrote: »

There are ways around it like running on petrol when over 150 bhp is needed or fitting a dual kit. Some folks have also drilled injectors to get more power.

I'd be reluctant to do too much prícking around with things like that though unless I was seriously confident in the guy doing the work!

Deleted User wrote: »

Well the benefits are wiped out really if you need petrol. Even if it's for over 150 hp you are still spending more than you need to.

Maybe there is a more expensive kit for more power ?

There's a 286bhp limit for V8's, so an E39 540i might be the way to go!

More Mad_Lad Madness. Prius V S3 on Gas

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