The Golden Dawn. Greece.

Jeju

The Golden Dawn.

Police support for The Golden Dawn

"Thugs wearing the black T-shirts of the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party are carrying out attacks on immigrant markets and in public squares, according to the United Nations, with victims speaking of areas in the capital which are now strictly off limits."

Heard about these again yesterday on the Radio and apparently gaining support among the ordinary people of Greece.
They give food to the Greek poor while beating up emigrants, are apparently when there are people ( non Greek )that need to be moved on can be quite useful.
They want to return to Greek Gods as they believe that this is where the Aryan race stems from, and wouldn't you know blame the Jews for Greece's financial woes.
IMO, they could be the biggest threat to internal security in Europe and if they can get more seat in the parliament would probably see a Greece default and exclusion from the Euro.

How dangerous is the political situation in Greece at present and could Modern Europe live with a fascist member?

Scofflaw

Jeju wrote: »

The Golden Dawn.

Police support for The Golden Dawn

"Thugs wearing the black T-shirts of the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party are carrying out attacks on immigrant markets and in public squares, according to the United Nations, with victims speaking of areas in the capital which are now strictly off limits."

Heard about these again yesterday on the Radio and apparently gaining support among the ordinary people of Greece.
They give food to the Greek poor while beating up emigrants, are apparently when there are people ( non Greek )that need to be moved on can be quite useful.
They want to return to Greek Gods as they believe that this is where the Aryan race stems from, and wouldn't you know blame the Jews for Greece's financial woes.
IMO, they could be the biggest threat to internal security in Europe and if they can get more seat in the parliament would probably see a Greece default and exclusion from the Euro.

How dangerous is the political situation in Greece at present and could Modern Europe live with a fascist member?

To answer the second question first - the EU can't have a fascist member. All their membership rights would have to be suspended.

As to how serious it is - at the moment, certainly, it's pretty serious. The problems that drive support for Golden Dawn haven't receded, and the high level of police sympathy is certainly disturbing. That the police support is higher than that of the general public presents the outside possibility of an authoritarian coup if there's also sufficient army support, as opposed to a popular democratic capture of the parliament.

cordially,
Scofflaw

thecommietommy

Scofflaw wrote: »

To answer the second question first - the EU can't have a fascist member. All their membership rights would have to be suspended.

Dunno about that, they could tolerate probably the most widely known demagogue on the planet Paisley couldn't they ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fm0QOIw8nQ

As to how serious it is - at the moment, certainly, it's pretty serious. The problems that drive support for Golden Dawn haven't receded, and the high level of police sympathy is certainly disturbing. That the police support is higher than that of the general public presents the outside possibility of an authoritarian coup if there's also sufficient army support, as opposed to a popular democratic capture of the parliament.

cordially,
Scofflaw

RUC, UDR, SAS etc were up to their necks invovled with the loyalists in murder etc both sides of the border. Didn't bother the EU too much ? Then their was GAL in Spain ?

GAL - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos_Antiterroristas_de_Liberaci%C3%B3n

oscarBravo

thecommietommy wrote: »

Dunno about that, they could tolerate probably the most widely known demagogue on the planet Paisley couldn't they ??

I'm fairly certain Ian Paisley has never been a member of the EU.

Scofflaw

thecommietommy wrote: »

Dunno about that, they could tolerate probably the most widely known demagogue on the planet Paisley couldn't they ??



RUC, UDR, SAS etc were up to their necks invovled with the loyalists in murder etc both sides of the border. Didn't bother the EU too much ? Then their was GAL in Spain ?

GAL - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos_Antiterroristas_de_Liberaci%C3%B3n

It helps if one keeps some kind of handle on what "a fascist member of the EU" would actually mean, as opposed to people one likes to call fascists because one doesn't like them. That would, for example, help one's posts bear some relevance to the thread.

amused,
Scofflaw

Nodin

thecommietommy wrote: »

Dunno about that, they could tolerate probably the most widely known demagogue on the planet Paisley couldn't they ??

,......

'member state'. Large as Mr Paisely may be, he does not qualify as such in his own right.

gallag

Yet people will not ask the most relevant question, why do the golden dawn have such massive support? Why are partys like ukip gaining support.

hyperborean

gallag wrote: »

Yet people will not ask the most relevant question, why do the golden dawn have such massive support? Why are partys like ukip gaining support.

Fear and insecurity are predominant factors that lead to populous right wing support, usualy a population suffering outside intimidation and gathering together to oppose in the strongest manner possible, even if it is facist/xenophobic/racist it still makes sense to the "victims" if there only support is from nutjobs

biko

I think GD represents two things for the Greeks. A finger up to the EU superstate and someone who wants "greek jobs for greek people".
In times of strife it's a simple way to view things: "my family helped build this country and now immigrants are coming here getting something for nothing".

In most, if not all, European countries immigration is very high but no referendums have been done on whether this is ok with the general population.
This won't sit well with everyone.

gallag

I know its not pc but immigration is out of control, it is driving workers rights and rate of pay down. People rightly dont like this. The solution is simple, control and limit immigration.

Scofflaw

Nodin wrote: »

'member state'. Large as Mr Paisely may be, he does not qualify as such in his own right.

Indeed - not even as a statelet.

apologies,
Scofflaw

oscarBravo

gallag wrote: »

The solution is simple, control and limit immigration.

You believe Greece neither controls nor limits immigration?

SoulandForm

gallag wrote: »

I know its not pc but immigration is out of control, it is driving workers rights and rate of pay down. People rightly dont like this. The solution is simple, control and limit immigration.

Look you have a serious point.

I believe one of the major factors stopping the south of Ireland from reaching its full potential is that the UK allowed an open border with it after independence. If this hadnt been the case the south would have had to be serious about modernization of the economy and a serious working class political force would have emerged. Mass emmigration played into the hands of the most reactionary forces in southern Ireland- I dont imagine its different in so-called Third World or eastern European countries today.

Mass immigration into countries when not handled properly (and to be fair the Republic of Ireland is handling it a lot better than the UK is) creates social division, bitterness, and drives down workers rights and wages.

However the situation in Greece and the rise of the Golden Dawn is a lot more complicated than the problems of mass immigration going back to the civil war there.

Chips Lovell

gallag wrote: »

why do the golden dawn have such massive support?

6.9 per cent in the last general election there is hardly massive support.

That's not to say that any level of support isn't alarming, but at the moment they're still on the fringe.

rumour

Scofflaw wrote: »

- the EU can't have a fascist member

cordially,
Scofflaw

Really? What is a fascist?, a national socialist?

Scofflaw

rumour wrote: »

Really? What is a fascist?, a national socialist?

Either would do, because neither would conform to the principles of the EU, and either would almost inevitably lead to "serious and persistent breaches" of those principles, which allows for a suspension vote under Article 7 TEU.

(And, to be fair, although the Nazi party was theoretically "national socialist", its socialist ideas were dropped fairly early on and replaced by something rather more similar to fascism.)

So, assuming Golden Dawn practiced in government what it preaches on the streets, then a breach of Article 2 (Values) seems likely:

Article 2 The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities. These values are common to the Member States in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality between women and men prevail.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Eric Cartman

gallag wrote: »

Yet people will not ask the most relevant question, why do the golden dawn have such massive support? Why are partys like ukip gaining support.

people are finally standing up and rejecting the spoonfed idea of multiculturalism and mass immigration as a good thing, I think greece and the uk have finally noticed the culture shift thats causing massive social problems and they want to stand up and do something about it.

SoulandForm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

people are finally standing up and rejecting the spoonfed idea of multiculturalism and mass immigration as a good thing, I think greece and the uk have finally noticed the culture shift thats causing massive social problems and they want to stand up and do something about it.

There is no comparison between the Golden Dawn and UKIP, I dont think there is much comparison between the Front National in France and the Golden Dawn, but between them and UKIP there is none at all. The Golden Dawn are actual National Socialists who admire Adolf Hitler.

biko

Lumping EU critics in with Nazis just makes sense. You can fob them off as racists and dangerous people.
Every political direction has fringe groups that will take the opportunity to beat people up. Doesn't matter if it's right or left, you find undemocratic notions on both sides.

Scofflaw

biko wrote: »

Lumping EU critics in with Nazis just makes sense. You can fob them off as racists and dangerous people.
Every political direction has fringe groups that will take the opportunity to beat people up. Doesn't matter if it's right or left, you find undemocratic notions on both sides.

To be fair, I don't think anybody has lumped EU critics in with Nazis except Golden Dawn by being both those things. I don't think Golden Dawn can actually be "fobbed off" on that basis either, come to that.

cordially,
Scofflaw