value - price of coffee

Maudi

speaking of value for money...i rarely would get a beverage to take away ..today in Holmans coffee shop i did..Two Euros fifty Cents for a americano and Two Euros Eighty for a latte..id expect to pay for a couple cups of coffee from pocket change..not to have to go into my wallet for more..

pixbyjohn

Strange that I was around the town today at lunch time and spent a little time looking at the coffee prices in the various cafe/coffee shops and thought they were expensive too. Now saying that there was a few customers in most cafes who are willing to pay the price. Lots of people taking out coffees too.

LifeBeginsAt40

Big box of Yorkshire Tea bags in the cupboard at home! Voting with my mouth and refusing to pay NY prices in a village setting.

Maudi

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Big box of Yorkshire Tea bags in the cupboard at home! Voting with my mouth and refusing to pay NY prices in a village setting.

yea..i wasnt thinking..normally id create a fuss give out about how very expensive that price is and turn and walk out..il not darken their door again thats for sure.

cuddlycavies

Best thing I ever bought was a Nespresso machine. You get a great expresso for about 35c and you never can justify to yourself buying from any of the Irish coffee shops.

cuddlycavies

I wonder why no one has ever gone into volume coffee sales at lower prices. In other countries people have coffee shops which really only provide a wage for a man, his wife. They work hard for it. Here it's multi national or an independent who wants to drive a merc on the back of his takings.

LifeBeginsAt40

Let's not even mention Starbucks and massive corporation tax evasion, whilst the coffee bean pickers survive on the smallest percentage.

I know it sounds silly, but I genuinely will never buy coffee out at such idiotic prices.

zoobizoo

Cappucinos and lattes are €2 in the little Italian Deli near the seafront in Bray (and €1.90 and €2.10 respectively in Campo opposite. Can't understand how somewhere can get away with charging €2.80.

It costs about 18 cent for a coffee shop to make a coffee including the paper cup.

Charlie-Bravo

€1.50 for an Americano in Caffe del Stelle - next is the question of how big the measures are?!

Maudi

astrofluff wrote: »

€1.50 for an Americano in Caffe del Stelle - next is the question of how big the measures are?!

yes i like that dude..id go in now and then..unpretentious id call it...i would like the hotspot but jeeze everything is either not working takes ages to get or some drama..the t.a.w cups i got wernt small..regular i suppose they would be called.

desoc32

Does anyone notice the "tips are welcome " jar in some places too for when you pay €2.50+ for a coffee. I know it's for the staff but seriously? When i was recently in Rathmines all teas and coffees were €1 take away in a shop.

Oldlegs

zoobizoo wrote: »

Cappucinos and lattes are €2 in the little Italian Deli near the seafront in Bray (and €1.90 and €2.10 respectively in Campo opposite. Can't understand how somewhere can get away with charging €2.80.

It costs about 18 cent for a coffee shop to make a coffee including the paper cup.

A full chapter in the book "Freakonomics" explaining how the cost of the high street cuppa has nothing to do with the cost of the coffee and all to do with the rent and overheads.

When Bono and Paul O Neill did a tour of Africa, Bono raised the same issue and was given a very good explanation as to the economics behind retail price of coffee vs. the price paid to growers.

Bottom line - if people are not prepared to pay that amount for a cup of coffee, then a cafe will not get the business.

ciaran67

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Let's not even mention Starbucks and massive corporation tax evasion, whilst the coffee bean pickers survive on the smallest percentage.

I know it sounds silly, but I genuinely will never buy coffee out at such idiotic prices.

And the mark up in Ireland for Starbucks. When we used to go shop up Newry during the parity days, I'd get a bag of French Roast for 3.80 compared with 7 Euro back in the south.

cuddlycavies

desoc32 wrote: »

Does anyone notice the "tips are welcome " jar in some places too for when you pay €2.50+ for a coffee. I know it's for the staff but seriously? When i was recently in Rathmines all teas and coffees were €1 take away in a shop.

That's interesting and fair play to whoevers doing that. the tip thing only goes to show. The greed of some people. taking huge margins and paying their staff peanuts. Sometimes they dont even train them. So you spend €3 on slop. Gave up when I got my Nespresso

zoobizoo

Oldlegs wrote: »

Bottom line - if people are not prepared to pay that amount for a cup of coffee, then a cafe will not get the business.

Agreed. I would never pay Costa or Starbucks prices as I don't find the coffee that good or the extra size to be a benefit.

What I do find interesting is how coffee shops around the country charge the same as Dublin Grafton St prices. I'd expect coffee to be more expensive due to high rents and overheads but how can a coffee shop in a small town justify charging the same (or more).

We are spoiled for choice for decent coffee in Bray (although Molloys and Finbees wouldn't be on my lost of places to go). I think Greystones has pretty good places too.

Alun

Oldlegs wrote: »

A full chapter in the book "Freakonomics" explaining how the cost of the high street cuppa has nothing to do with the cost of the coffee and all to do with the rent and overheads.

When Bono and Paul O Neill did a tour of Africa, Bono raised the same issue and was given a very good explanation as to the economics behind retail price of coffee vs. the price paid to growers.

Bottom line - if people are not prepared to pay that amount for a cup of coffee, then a cafe will not get the business.

Exactly.

In fact, the price charged for absolutely anything, not just coffee, is based on just two guiding principles 1) at least cover your costs and 2) what people are prepared to pay for it. If you don't think it's value for money, don't buy it, and eventually the business will either lower their prices or go bust.

MyPerfectCousin

There are some very silly assumptions in this thread. The New York comment especially, considering 1) labour, the single biggest cost to a coffee shop, is much cheaper in New York than in an Irish village, and 2) the size of the market -- even on one city block -- is not comparable. You do not have the thousands of office workers passing your shop every day in Greystones that the coffee shop in Manhattan does.

With rent, one staff (or owner-operator) wages, and overheads, your minimum costs before buying stock are about 175 euro per day. If as mentioned above a decent takeaway coffee cost only 18 cents to produce (it doesn't), the shop would need to sell 250 coffees a day at €1 each (about 30 an hour, every hour) to cover the daily cost of staff and overheads.

Of course, this doesn't account for VAT (knock 9% off turnover), the cost of milk and sugar, or the fact that at 18 cents per cup you would be selling the lowest quality coffee with the worst quality container. And with the exception of Costa Coffee (maybe), no coffee shop in Greystones is selling anywhere near to 250 cups a day. THis is why they cost 2.50 or 2.80 and not 1.00 or 1.50.

You can get a coffee for a euro or 1.50 at a chipper or a garage because they are not in the coffee business -- that's a few extra cents coming in for them. But if coffee is your main product, you have to have a big margin on it -- even in a city center where there's higher footfall -- because each sale is so relatively small.

Can you think of any shop where the average customer spend is a euro? Me neither.

Not everyone, but some people like good coffee prepared properly. And people like coffee shops because they offer a non-pub environment to have a refreshment and/or meet people during the day. You are paying for a nice place to hang out basically. Takeaway customers might get a small discount in some shops, but there aren't enough of them to support a business or allow for 1 euro pricing.

pixbyjohn

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

There are some very silly assumptions in this thread.

I suppose you are right, thanks for the info

Maudi

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

There are some very silly assumptions in this thread. The New York comment especially, considering 1) labour, the single biggest cost to a coffee shop, is much cheaper in New York than in an Irish village, and 2) the size of the market -- even on one city block -- is not comparable. You do not have the thousands of office workers passing your shop every day in Greystones that the coffee shop in Manhattan does.

With rent, one staff (or owner-operator) wages, and overheads, your minimum costs before buying stock are about 175 euro per day. If as mentioned above a decent takeaway coffee cost only 18 cents to produce (it doesn't), the shop would need to sell 250 coffees a day at €1 each (about 30 an hour, every hour) to cover the daily cost of staff and overheads.

Of course, this doesn't account for VAT (knock 9% off turnover), the cost of milk and sugar, or the fact that at 18 cents per cup you would be selling the lowest quality coffee with the worst quality container. And with the exception of Costa Coffee (maybe), no coffee shop in Greystones is selling anywhere near to 250 cups a day. THis is why they cost 2.50 or 2.80 and not 1.00 or 1.50.

You can get a coffee for a euro or 1.50 at a chipper or a garage because they are not in the coffee business -- that's a few extra cents coming in for them. But if coffee is your main product, you have to have a big margin on it -- even in a city center where there's higher footfall -- because each sale is so relatively small.

Can you think of any shop where the average customer spend is a euro? Me neither.

Not everyone, but some people like good coffee prepared properly. And people like coffee shops because they offer a non-pub environment to have a refreshment and/or meet people during the day. You are paying for a nice place to hang out basically. Takeaway customers might get a small discount in some shops, but there aren't enough of them to support a business or allow for 1 euro pricing.

it can be dressed up any way you want its still 1.50. one end of the village and 2.50 the other end..i know which i wont be frequenting.

damienirel

Maudi wrote: »

it can be dressed up any way you want its still 1.50. one end of the village and 2.50 the other end..i know which i wont be frequenting.

Not sure it's being "dressed up".
The fact is there's no way in hell it only costs 18 cent to produce a cup of coffee in Ireland.
Sure even if it was made from dirt instead of coffee beans you'd still be at a loss after adding boiling water and paying for a cup!!!

I think the main problem in Irish Coffee Shops is that the quality of the coffee is bad. I.E. lack of staff knowledge on how to prepare a coffee drink - poor machinery, poor quality beans etc.
I'm perfectly happy to pay 2-3 euro for a cup if it's of a certain standard. However no chain shop in Ireland currently has such a standard. Starbucks is a disgrace. The UK and the North have Cafe Nero which is brilliant - they offer coffee drinks that aren't 90% milk like starbucks and other chains. Also they tend to steam the milk properly i.e. once with a thermometer and not re-steam to scalding hot temps like they do here.
The Irish are just starting to get used to the idea of quality coffee, it's a long road ahead.

MyPerfectCousin

Maudi wrote: »

it can be dressed up any way you want its still 1.50. one end of the village and 2.50 the other end..i know which i wont be frequenting.

There are several coffee shops in Greystones. If most of them are charging 1.50 and only Homan's is charging around 2.50 then we can expect Homan's to lose most of its customers if price is the main consideration.

If most of them are charging 2.50 and only Caffe Dell Stelle is charing 1.50, I suppose we can expect Caffe Dell Stelle to put all the others out of business.

Interestingly, Homan's is probably the longest running coffee shop on the main street, while Caffe Delle Stelle is one of the newest. It makes you wonder which price is more sustainable over the long term.

If price is your only consideration then there is no problem here. There is cheap coffee to be had if you look, or you can have a cup at home, as you and others have pointed out.

Blandpebbles

Comes down to how much are you willing to pay to be 'seen' walking around with a coffee in hand... Is anyone so desperate for a drink they cannot get it at home or in their work?

Remove the pretention and there would be no coffee business in Greystones or elsewhere.

DesperateDan

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

There are some very silly assumptions in this thread. The New York comment especially, considering 1) labour, the single biggest cost to a coffee shop, is much cheaper in New York than in an Irish village, and 2) the size of the market -- even on one city block -- is not comparable. You do not have the thousands of office workers passing your shop every day in Greystones that the coffee shop in Manhattan does.

With rent, one staff (or owner-operator) wages, and overheads, your minimum costs before buying stock are about 175 euro per day. If as mentioned above a decent takeaway coffee cost only 18 cents to produce (it doesn't), the shop would need to sell 250 coffees a day at €1 each (about 30 an hour, every hour) to cover the daily cost of staff and overheads.

Of course, this doesn't account for VAT (knock 9% off turnover), the cost of milk and sugar, or the fact that at 18 cents per cup you would be selling the lowest quality coffee with the worst quality container. And with the exception of Costa Coffee (maybe), no coffee shop in Greystones is selling anywhere near to 250 cups a day. THis is why they cost 2.50 or 2.80 and not 1.00 or 1.50.

You can get a coffee for a euro or 1.50 at a chipper or a garage because they are not in the coffee business -- that's a few extra cents coming in for them. But if coffee is your main product, you have to have a big margin on it -- even in a city center where there's higher footfall -- because each sale is so relatively small.

Can you think of any shop where the average customer spend is a euro? Me neither.

Not everyone, but some people like good coffee prepared properly. And people like coffee shops because they offer a non-pub environment to have a refreshment and/or meet people during the day. You are paying for a nice place to hang out basically. Takeaway customers might get a small discount in some shops, but there aren't enough of them to support a business or allow for 1 euro pricing.

Very interesting points, Do you own a coffee shop by any chance?!

sumo12

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

There are some very silly assumptions in this thread. The New York comment especially, considering 1) labour, the single biggest cost to a coffee shop, is much cheaper in New York than in an Irish village, and 2) the size of the market -- even on one city block -- is not comparable. You do not have the thousands of office workers passing your shop every day in Greystones that the coffee shop in Manhattan does.

With rent, one staff (or owner-operator) wages, and overheads, your minimum costs before buying stock are about 175 euro per day. If as mentioned above a decent takeaway coffee cost only 18 cents to produce (it doesn't), the shop would need to sell 250 coffees a day at €1 each (about 30 an hour, every hour) to cover the daily cost of staff and overheads.

Of course, this doesn't account for VAT (knock 9% off turnover), the cost of milk and sugar, or the fact that at 18 cents per cup you would be selling the lowest quality coffee with the worst quality container. And with the exception of Costa Coffee (maybe), no coffee shop in Greystones is selling anywhere near to 250 cups a day. THis is why they cost 2.50 or 2.80 and not 1.00 or 1.50.

You can get a coffee for a euro or 1.50 at a chipper or a garage because they are not in the coffee business -- that's a few extra cents coming in for them. But if coffee is your main product, you have to have a big margin on it -- even in a city center where there's higher footfall -- because each sale is so relatively small.

Can you think of any shop where the average customer spend is a euro? Me neither.

Not everyone, but some people like good coffee prepared properly. And people like coffee shops because they offer a non-pub environment to have a refreshment and/or meet people during the day. You are paying for a nice place to hang out basically. Takeaway customers might get a small discount in some shops, but there aren't enough of them to support a business or allow for 1 euro pricing.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you say, in Greystones or other small towns the volume of sales is not there. I do think that heading north of €2.50 is a bit strong though (anywhere)

bobwilliams

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Comes down to how much are you willing to pay to be 'seen' walking around with a coffee in hand... Is anyone so desperate for a drink they cannot get it at home or in their work?

Remove the pretention and there would be no coffee business in Greystones or elsewhere.

i think you are a very cynical person,i have a really good coffee machine at home and i love my coffee.
I still go for a coffee because i like to relax reading a book down the town and to check the quality of the different coffee on offer.
Not really anything pretentious about it.
Fwiw,
Caffe de Stelle has the best expresso
Vino Pasta coffee shop has the smoothest and best Cappo by a mile
3Q's very large Americano goes down well with their nice breckie
All imo of course.

Oldlegs

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Comes down to how much are you willing to pay to be 'seen' walking around with a coffee in hand... Is anyone so desperate for a drink they cannot get it at home or in their work?

Remove the pretention and there would be no coffee business in Greystones or elsewhere.

Just to reiterate - how cynical !!

Maybe someone is bringing their dog for a walk and is prepared to pay a price (for which they feel they are getting value => supply&demand) to have a freshly made cup of coffee in the hand while the stroll the beach.

Just because you might feel pretentious walking around with a coffee in your hand, doesn't mean that everyone else is trying to make a statement while enjoying a coffee outside.

To paraphrase Freud (or is that pretentious too ?) - "sometimes a takeaway coffee is just a takeaway coffee"

{Sometimes a takeaway Coffee is almost a medical requirement, as any parent standing on the Sideline at GUFC when a damp, north-easterly is blowing across the pitches will tell you. Which is why €2 for a takeaway cuppa in the GUFC shop can be seen as such good value }

Annasopra

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Comes down to how much are you willing to pay to be 'seen' walking around with a coffee in hand... Is anyone so desperate for a drink they cannot get it at home or in their work?

Remove the pretention and there would be no coffee business in Greystones or elsewhere.

Seriously? you're calling people pretentious for drinking coffee?

cuddlycavies

i always enjoyedd having my coffee made for me and enjoyed drinking it. No pretence just addiction. Then I discovered NESPRESSO and I look like George Clooney too! Saved me a lot of money.Now to making draught Peroni at home.

Yakuza42

I used to never buy hot beverages or even lunch in Ireland, I used to always bring my own. Recently I moved to Denmark and found a really nice coffee in this random sandwich bar beside the college. 35 Kroner for a Cappucino. That's almost 5 euro's. I don't think 2.50 is so bad; once the coffee is good.

Eponymous

Oh how the proliteriat must really despise these bourgeois coffee drinking ways. Off with their heads! One can only imagine BP's views on decadent cupcakes.

€2.50 for a takeaway coffee really isn't that bad. I'm not overly fond of Homan's but don't see the pricing as outrageous, particularly if compared with insomnia who seem to burn the coffee to the point that it's far too bitter or Costa, who just don't have a clue at all. Nearly scalded my lip with a latté there on Saturday, the milk was far too hot. It was a lot more than €2.50 too!

Agree though that Cafe Delle Stelle offers exceptional value. Really enjoy it there. The owner is a great character and the coffee is really good.

cuddlycavies

And that sums it up. an owner operator making a living out of it at €1.50 a pop. Fair enough and how it should be.