Chelsea Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14

GavRedKing

Cech should have done better for the 1st but made up for it with 3 or 4 great saves.

I cant see who lost there man for the Bayern 2nd equaliser, Mikel or Lukaku? Needless to say that type of defending was pi*s poor and should have been dealt with.

I expected a 3-1 loss in normal time and o lose it after hitting the bar and after Neuer making 2 point blank reaction saves is very frustrating especially the defending for the 2nd goal but s**t happens.

On wards and upward as they say, feel sorry for Lukaku, the young lad went up and made a mistake and hopefully he can learn from it, there was 8 perfect penos, his and Shaqiri were poor but Shaqiri had just enough to creep in.

GavRedKing

All over Twitter, Chelsea today rejected a bid for Mata from Spurs.

Andersonisgod

Right for the sake of conversation I am posting this, before I do I know that Chelsea say they wont sell Mata and I believe them. Also please keep in mind that I am a big Juan Mata fan (who isn't?)

Looking at how Hazard, Oscar and Schurrle all played tonight, the quick counter attacking, the relentless tracking back, the willingness to stick a foot in and the sheer amount of running, my question is, will Juan Mata do all of that or can Juan Mata physically do that? What we saw tonight from our attacking trio are the hallmarks of Mourinho players, will Juan Mata be able to play the Mourinho way? As great a player as Mata is, and he is great, I always thought he was considerably worse defensively than Hazard, even when Hazard first joined and was criticised for not tracking back, can Juan really get into the Mourinho mindset?

The more pressing question though is can Juan Mata physically do what Oscar, Hazard and Schurrle did tonight. We know he isn't very quick, the attacking trio tonight were so quick on the break and Mourinho likes his forward players to have a bit of pace about them. He isn't great on the tracking back side of things, he seems to lack the legs to keep up with his marker and the willingness to do so when shifted out wide. I'd say from a strength point of view he is weaker than all 3 of those attacking players and not as combative. I am just not sure he can do the running side of the game that Mourinho demands.

Against smaller teams it isn't really a problem but in a game like tonight, where the team is set up to counter attack, I am not sure that Mourinho will believe that Mata will or can do these duties. He's a magical player, incredibly gifted but I am not sure that in these big games that he is a luxury that Mourinho will indulge.

McDave

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Right for the sake of conversation I am posting this, before I do I know that Chelsea say they wont sell Mata and I believe them. Also please keep in mind that I am a big Juan Mata fan (who isn't?)

Looking at how Hazard, Oscar and Schurrle all played tonight, the quick counter attacking, the relentless tracking back, the willingness to stick a foot in and the sheer amount of running, my question is, will Juan Mata do all of that or can Juan Mata physically do that? What we saw tonight from our attacking trio are the hallmarks of Mourinho players, will Juan Mata be able to play the Mourinho way? As great a player as Mata is, and he is great, I always thought he was considerably worse defensively than Hazard, even when Hazard first joined and was criticised for not tracking back, can Juan really get into the Mourinho mindset?

The more pressing question though is can Juan Mata physically do what Oscar, Hazard and Schurrle did tonight. We know he isn't very quick, the attacking trio tonight were so quick on the break and Mourinho likes his forward players to have a bit of pace about them. He isn't great on the tracking back side of things, he seems to lack the legs to keep up with his marker and the willingness to do so when shifted out wide. I'd say from a strength point of view he is weaker than all 3 of those attacking players and not as combative. I am just not sure he can do the running side of the game that Mourinho demands.

Against smaller teams it isn't really a problem but in a game like tonight, where the team is set up to counter attack, I am not sure that Mourinho will believe that Mata will or can do these duties. He's a magical player, incredibly gifted but I am not sure that in these big games that he is a luxury that Mourinho will indulge.

I think we all want to find a way to fit Mata in. He excelled over the last two years in a transitional squad. But that squad was very light in midfield and IMO a false move in the direction of tiki taka, mainly in the hope of landing Guardiola. In those seasons Chelsea midfield was bullied far too often, losing 50-50s and not getting the ball back. It's a major reason why our premiership campaigns faltered.

Tiki taka ain't happening under Mou. So Mata's primacy is gone. The question is, does he fit into any alternative regular Mourinho gameplan. If he doesn't, then it's probably not justifiable keeping him on the books. Other than to deny him to a premiership rival.

It's a sad prospect. But we have to trust Jose. Don't forget, he has a lot of other squad problems to solve over the next year or two.

McDave

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

A savage defensive performance , brilliant match delighted with the performance , Rambo can be a real liability , cech was amazing, we won't be easily beaten this season

I suppose monster defending is a given with us. What we have to do is tighten up elsewhere.

Ramires was unforgivable. Although skilful, he's not a smart footballer. His judgement is really dodgy. Last night, he utterly destroyed Mourinho's ability to determine his tactics in extra time, were it to come to that, which it did. Of course, you can't control events. But we can't afford that kind of bird-brained indiscipline in the big matches. I'm not sure Ramires can learn.

Having said all that, it's easy to see the difference Mourinho has made in a few short months. By the end of the year we're going to be in serious contention. Including in the UCL!

Andersonisgod

McDave wrote: »

I think we all want to find a way to fit Mata in. He excelled over the last two years in a transitional squad. But that squad was very light in midfield and IMO a false move in the direction of tiki taka, mainly in the hope of landing Guardiola. In those seasons Chelsea midfield was bullied far too often, losing 50-50s and not getting the ball back. It's a major reason why our premiership campaigns faltered.

Tiki taka ain't happening under Mou. So Mata's primacy is gone. The question is, does he fit into any alternative regular Mourinho gameplan. If he doesn't, then it's probably not justifiable keeping him on the books. Other than to deny him to a premiership rival.

It's a sad prospect. But we have to trust Jose. Don't forget, he has a lot of other squad problems to solve over the next year or two.

I agree with pretty much all of that. There was no way of watching that game last night without the thought coming into your head that Mata really will struggle to adapt to this way of playing.

Luckily most of the "tiki taka" players the club brought in to seemingly appease Guardiola are talented enough and have the traits to be Mourinho players. Last night Hazard and Oscar looked like proper Mourinho players. Like I said, against smaller teams he can probably afford to play Mata but that probably isn't enough to justify rejecting an acceptable bid (which should be quite considerable) or leaving him on the wage bill.

Nobody wants to see Mata pushed out the door, he's been a model professional and a great player to watch but Jose has a way of playing, it's a way that generally leads to success, if in a few months he can get us competing with the European Champions in a year of working with this group there's no telling what he could do but it's hard to envisage him doing it with Mata at the centre of it.

Panthro

I can't believe he let Lukaku take the last peno.
I said even before the lad went up, that that was far too much pressure to put on a young lad. The lad was beyond distraught after he took it. A more senior player like Cahill or Terry should have stepped up.
What was great to see was Essien straight over to console/put an arm round him.

Essien

If the irrational hatred in the match thread is anything to go by, I think we can safely say opposing fans are worried about Chelsea and Jose again

Essien

Panthro wrote: »

What was great to see was Essien straight over to console/put an arm round him.

Because I'm sound like that.

McDave

Panthro wrote: »

I can't believe he let Lukaku take the last peno.
I said even before the lad went up, that that was far too much pressure to put on a young lad. The lad was beyond distraught after he took it. A more senior player like Cahill or Terry should have stepped up.
What was great to see was Essien straight over to console/put an arm round him.

I think it was a mistake for Jose to put Lukaku on the spot like that. Too redolent of the Drogba scenario. I don't think this Drogba II moniker helps. Let Lukaku develop on his own terms.

That said, the way the penos were going he was going to have to take one anyway.

Garzorico

McDave wrote: »

I think it was a mistake for Jose to put Lukaku on the spot like that. Too redolent of the Drogba scenario. I don't think this Drogba II moniker helps. Let Lukaku develop on his own terms.

That said, the way the penos were going he was going to have to take one anyway.

Lukaku is 20, has a full successful year behind him in the premier league. It was a woeful peno is all. I'd say his upset was as much for his bruised ego as it was for letting his team mates down...and that's a good thing...all the good uns have big ass egos.

Corben Dallas

Cant believe Mata has been pushed to the margins by Jose, now dropped from Spain (cause hes not getting any game time?)

Why cant Jose see that he has a ready made 'best Midfield in the Premier League' >>(Mata, Hazard & Oscar) and easily up there with best in Europe as wel,l plus can now call on Essien (<Gr8 player) as well. What a midlfield.:)

But he does'nt pick Mata? ManU, ManCity,Spurs etc must be laughing. Anyone know if he has issues with Mata, previous bad blood? does Mourinho think Mata feels too much of a superstar and cant easily bend/fit into The special ones plan? anyone got ideas?

IMO Mata is easily Chelskis best midfield player in terms of skill, regularly scores, can run the Midfield, makes huge contribution to the game (Assists etc/links with forwards) just as good as Lampard 2/3 years ago :mad:

Andersonisgod

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Cant believe Mata has been pushed to the margins by Jose, now dropped from Spain (cause hes not getting any game time?)

Why cant Jose see that he has a ready made 'best Midfield in the Premier League' >>(Mata, Hazard & Oscar) and easily up there with best in Europe as wel,l plus can now call on Essien (<Gr8 player) as well. What a midlfield.:)

But he does'nt pick Mata? ManU, ManCity,Spurs etc must be laughing. Anyone know if he has issues with Mata, previous bad blood? does Mourinho think Mata feels too much of a superstar and cant easily bend/fit into The special ones plan? anyone got ideas?

IMO Mata is easily Chelskis best midfield player in terms of skill, regularly scores, can run the Midfield, makes huge contribution to the game (Assists etc/links with forwards) just as good as Lampard 2/3 years ago :mad:

In big games like last night Mourinho doesn't seem to trust him, likely because he hasn't got the physicality, the speed, the strength, the hunger or ability to track and chase effectively. It's harsh but it's probably true.

the_monkey

I couldn't sleep last night , that ****ing late equaliser is haunting me.

And it's only a poxy pre Europe season friendly

Panthro

On the upside, at least they showed up last night, unlike last time out.
The oul Jose factor is kicking in, it doesn't matter who the opposition is, he wants his team to win.

cadaliac

Panthro wrote: »

On the upside, at least they showed up last night, unlike last time out.
The oul Jose factor is kicking in, it doesn't matter who the opposition is, he wants his team to win.

yeah but he was going mental on the side line jumping up and down, wanting them to push up the field instead of sitting back behind the ball. Which I agree with also, but in effect, there could have been two more goals if they were caught on the break. Anyway, they showed up and faught well I thought. Byren are a very good side and I was impressed with our character last night. It will have an effect on other teams in the PL, loooking at Chelsea last night.
The cheer in the pub last night when Byren scored the equaliser (United fans) and again when we missed the last peno, shows how much we are not liked again. Which, to me, is a good sign.

Panthro

'Only those who don't take a penalty never miss and you were strong enough to do it.

'You are learning, the same way I learnt with this red card in the final in Moscow or this semi-final against Barcelona!!!

'Keep on working hard better days are coming for sure. You are Chelsea, you're a blue and blues never give up.'

Drogba to Lukaku after last night's peno.
He's a class act Drogba.

CastingCouch

Panthro wrote: »

Drogba to Lukaku after last night's peno.
He's a class act Drogba.

Yes.

Panthro

CastingCouch wrote: »

Yes.

Yes.
http://www.thedidierdrogbafoundation.com/archives/the-united-foundation.html

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

justshane

I'm getting pissed off with Jose's treatment of Mata, beyond a joke at this stage. The amount of games Mata carried us over the last two years, and points he won by himself almost(spurs away last year one irrc). Mourinho needs to cop on Mata doesn't deserve it, not just a fantastic fully committed player but also a fantastic role model for Chelsea, and god knows they can be few and far between at Chelsea. Tbh I'd rather Mourinho fech off he is going to keep this ****e up which will eventually lead to the best attacking midfielder in the premier league leave us for no good reason.

GavRedKing

Mata missing the Spanish squad is a blessing. he gets to stay at cobham work on his fitness and will get more time with Mourinho and the coaches over the next 2weeks. If he has anything he wants to say or share he can do it in the following days which is going to male or break his season.

Oscar put in a great shift. that boy could easily play CM and still be brilliant, Hazard and cech were our stand out performers. Hszard made the best full back on the planet look like a mug last night for his goal, very promising for us.

Andersonisgod

justshane wrote: »

I'm getting pissed off with Jose's treatment of Mata, beyond a joke at this stage. The amount of games Mata carried us over the last two years, and points he won by himself almost(spurs away last year one irrc). Mourinho needs to cop on Mata doesn't deserve it, not just a fantastic fully committed player but also a fantastic role model for Chelsea, and god knows they can be few and far between at Chelsea. Tbh I'd rather Mourinho fech off he is going to keep this ****e up which will eventually lead to the best attacking midfielder in the premier league leave us for no good reason.

As much as I like Juan Mata, if it came down to a choice between him or Mourinho, I'd have Mourinho every day of the week. Mata's a hugely gifted player, nobody doubts that, there are other gifted players in the squad though but there's only one Mourinho. I'd go as far as to say that I believe that there is no other manager who could take our squad from where it was last season (3rd in the league, well off top spot and eliminated from the Champions League at the group stage) and make us absolutely competitive against the European champions in just a few short months.

We don't know for sure yet what Mourinho has planned for Mata. Like Gav said, that Mata isn't in the Spanish squad is a blessing for him, he has time to get his fitness up and work with Mourinho on a closer basis. Maybe Mourinho will be able to fit him into the side, personally I have my doubts that he will be able to play him in the really big games but we will see.

justshane

Andersonisgod wrote: »

As much as I like Juan Mata, if it came down to a choice between him or Mourinho, I'd have Mourinho every day of the week. Mata's a hugely gifted player, nobody doubts that, there are other gifted players in the squad though but there's only one Mourinho. I'd go as far as to say that I believe that there is no other manager who could take our squad from where it was last season (3rd in the league, well off top spot and eliminated from the Champions League at the group stage) and make us absolutely competitive against the European champions in just a few short months.

We don't know for sure yet what Mourinho has planned for Mata. Like Gav said, that Mata isn't in the Spanish squad is a blessing for him, he has time to get his fitness up and work with Mourinho on a closer basis. Maybe Mourinho will be able to fit him into the side, personally I have my doubts that he will be able to play him in the really big games but we will see.

Sure didn't we finish 5th and win Europe outright two years ago??

ShoulderChip

So I hear Liverpool have signed a contract with the waste management team at Cobham, they are planning on funnelling the leftover food waste from the canteen to Anfield so happy are they with our sloppy seconds.

In other unrelated news Victor Moses joins ex chelsea players Sturridge, Borini and Glen Johnson at Liverpool on a loan deal, let hope they can beat united today.

Andersonisgod

justshane wrote: »

Sure didn't we finish 5th and win Europe outright two years ago??

Different circumstances. Then we had Drogba, the man was nigh unstoppable in Europe that season.

My point was more in relation to the current Chelsea squad, in particular some of the new players in the squad. Last season we played some nice football but I thought the team lacked backbone and, at times, conviction. I said it a few times on this thread that it looked like two seperate teams that were loosely tied together.

There's surely no way you can argue against the effects Mourinho has already had on the squad?

CastingCouch

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Different circumstances. Then we had Drogba, the man was nigh unstoppable in Europe that season.

My point was more in relation to the current Chelsea squad, in particular some of the new players in the squad. Last season we played some nice football but I thought the team lacked backbone and, at times, conviction. I said it a few times on this thread that it looked like two seperate teams that were loosely tied together.

There's surely no way you can argue against the effects Mourinho has already had on the squad?

But you also have Hazard, Oscar, Shcurrle.

And you can certainly see the effect Mourinho has had alright.....

Andersonisgod

CastingCouch wrote: »

But you also have Hazard, Oscar, Shcurrle.

And you can certainly see the effect Mourinho has had alright.....

True but we had Hazard and Oscar last season too and we were eliminated at the group stage, lost leads far too many times and were very far away from Man Utd. I'm not arguing that the side isn't immensely talented, it is, but I think Mourinho is the coach who can take this ultra talented squad and turn them into serial winners. If he doesn't think Mata fits the bill (and we don't even know for sure yet what he thinks about Mata) then I trust Mourinho, he has a vision and long term plan for what he wants at Chelsea, his success at Chelsea and elsewhere means he has earned the right to be trusted.

CastingCouch

Andersonisgod wrote: »

True but we had Hazard and Oscar last season too and we were eliminated at the group stage, lost leads far too many times and were very far away from Man Utd. I'm not arguing that the side isn't immensely talented, it is, but I think Mourinho is the coach who can take this ultra talented squad and turn them into serial winners. If he doesn't think Mata fits the bill (and we don't even know for sure yet what he thinks about Mata) then I trust Mourinho, he has a vision and long term plan for what he wants at Chelsea, his success at Chelsea and elsewhere means he has earned the right to be trusted.

You said it was Mourinho who took ye to challenging the great sides in Europe, when ye did it 2 years ago with a worse squad.

justshane

I think the backbone shown so far is mainly down to JT and Frank been fit to play or participate in every game(almost). This won't happen over a full season due to their ages.

Andersonisgod

CastingCouch wrote: »

You said it was Mourinho who took ye to challenging the great sides in Europe, when ye did it 2 years ago with a worse squad.

Like I said, Drogba and perhaps luck. What I will say is that in the final against Bayern, we didn't have half as many chances from open play as we did the other night. We already look far more capable of competing with the top sides under Mourinho.

Andersonisgod

justshane wrote: »

I think the backbone shown so far is mainly down to JT and Frank been fit to play or participate in every game(almost). This won't happen over a full season due to their ages.

No doubt their experience is important. Though against Bayern, Terry didn't start, Luiz did and he was outstanding at the heart of the defence.

CastingCouch

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Like I said, Drogba and perhaps luck. What I will say is that in the final against Bayern, we didn't have half as many chances from open play as we did the other night. We already look far more capable of competing with the top sides under Mourinho.

I don't think you'd have got them last season either against Bayern, due to Pep bringing his dodgy defence vibe with him.

Andersonisgod

CastingCouch wrote: »

I don't think you'd have got them last season either against Bayern, due to Pep bringing his dodgy defence vibe with him.

With the way the side was last season I think Bayern would have beaten them relatively comfortably. However taking this Chelsea side this season under Mourinho I don't think any side will have a comfortable game against them.

CastingCouch

Andersonisgod wrote: »

With the way the side was last season I think Bayern would have beaten them relatively comfortably. However taking this Chelsea side this season under Mourinho I don't think any side will have a comfortable game against them.

I'd hope not with the players ye've bought. (Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Eto'o, Schuurle, and a returning Lukaku)

Andersonisgod

CastingCouch wrote: »

I'd hope not with the players ye've bought. (Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Eto'o, Schuurle, and a returning Lukaku)

True, the squad is formidable. However it needs the right manager. Very talented squad but how many of those players you've named are serial winners? Aside from Eto'o, they've not won very much.

Garzorico

David Luiz is a monster of a defender, I don't care how risky he is when he goes forward he is the man. Hard; intelligent n skilful. If Jose gets rid of him he's mad, Ted.

ShoulderChip

Beautiful result at Anfield

GavRedKing

Good thing about Liverpool beating Utd is Mignolet kept a clean sheet for my FF team :pac:

GavRedKing

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Beautiful result at Anfield

Still very early doors yet, its only 3 games in sure

ShoulderChip

GavRedKing wrote: »

Still very early doors yet, its only 3 games in sure

Yes of course but its nice to start well and keep the pace considering the fixtures we have, City dropping 3 points, united 5 and both of them playing each other in two week's bodes well for us.

Now time to assess how big a threat spurs may be this year.

GavRedKing

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Yes of course but its nice to start well and keep the pace considering the fixtures we have, City dropping 3 points, united 5 and both of them playing each other in two week's bodes well for us.

Now time to assess how big a threat spurs may be this year.

Not very, theyve yet to score from open play in the EPL, which is pretty poor.

Same can be said for Liverpool, 3 1-0 wins, although they're all worth 3 points its not very convincing at the moment.

Although it all harps back to me earlier post, its still too early to tell who'll be fighting for what come May.

GavRedKing

Anybody expecting business in today? We know Moses is going, but I'd say Ba is very close to leaving, Ive seen some reports to Arsenal as a back up and then people moaning at it but TBH hes not needed here, at Arsenal he'd be 2nd choice and more likely to get games, for us at the moment hes 3rd maybe 4th choice.

I'd like to see Mikel gone, give Van Ginkel more games, Jose took a punt on Mikel when he first came so Id love to show him Van Ginkel the same.

Cant see us bringing in anyone really, after Rooney Etoo seemed to be the fall back so another Cf makes no sense for now.

Essiens father passed away as well yesterday.

grumpymunster

Any business today here is a mad one.

Rooney and €20m for Mata Uniteds need is midfield is huge if they have any sense they would make Chelsea an offer they would find it hard to turn down.

GavRedKing

grumpymunster wrote: »

Any business today here is a mad one.

Rooney and €20m for Mata Uniteds need is midfield is huge if they have any sense they would make Chelsea an offer they would find it hard to turn down.

Mata wont be going nowhere today IMO.

Rooneys had 2 options for a move, for us to go in with a huge bid 40+ plus and maybe tempt Utd and we'd probably pay closer to 50 OR for Rooney himself to hand in a transfer request and force the move, resulting in us still paying a huge transfer.

Although after Bales move I reckon the Mata, Oscar, Hazard combined fee of about 87/88 million looks like a bargain.

grumpymunster

GavRedKing wrote: »

Mata wont be going nowhere today IMO.

Rooneys had 2 options for a move, for us to go in with a huge bid 40+ plus and maybe tempt Utd and we'd probably pay closer to 50 OR for Rooney himself to hand in a transfer request and force the move, resulting in us still paying a huge transfer.

Although after Bales move I reckon the Mata, Oscar, Hazard combined fee of about 87/88 million looks like a bargain.

I dont think we need to tempt ManU their need is far greater than ours, if they really want Mata it is down to them to tempt us therefore Rooney & €20m for Mata. Would love to see another central defender but what we have should be good enough for a good rattle at all trophies we are competing for.

tigger123

GavRedKing wrote: »

Mata wont be going nowhere today IMO.

Rooneys had 2 options for a move, for us to go in with a huge bid 40+ plus and maybe tempt Utd and we'd probably pay closer to 50 OR for Rooney himself to hand in a transfer request and force the move, resulting in us still paying a huge transfer.

Although after Bales move I reckon the Mata, Oscar, Hazard combined fee of about 87/88 million looks like a bargain.

The Rooney thing is over, don't think he's going anywhere, which is a real pity.

On a worrying note however, Sid Lowe (who covers the Spanish League for The Guardian) is saying that Mata is a name to watch today.

GavRedKing

tigger123 wrote: »

The Rooney thing is over, don't think he's going anywhere, which is a real pity.

On a worrying note however, Sid Lowe (who covers the Spanish League for The Guardian) is saying that Mata is a name to watch today.

Ya Rooney is staying put for my money we missed the boat by waiting too long and offering so little.

Lowe is a Barca fanboy but I still cant see Mata ending up anywhere before midnight tonight.

GavRedKing

Rumours of Khedira in are gathering pace, would love him in cM.

Would mean one of the non English lads would have to leave though.

grumpymunster

Moses off up North for a season, good move for us and them.

http://www.chelseafc.com/news-article/article/3445390/title/moses-moves-on-loan?